Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

[Papagallos]

Hello,

I finally decided to take the plunge into this whole custom rifle stuff. I've been painstainkingly reading as much as I can in relation to my anticipated build. As a result, I ordered a Surgeon 591 SA Repeater action from Brownell's and I'm now in the process of finding a builder for my dream rifle. This is an email that I sent out to several builders:

<span style="color: #FF0000">Good Morning,

I currently own a Surgeon 597 SA BDL style repeater and I wish to get a quote for a custom rifle. I’m leaning towards having a barreled action chambered for .243, with the proper twist to run Berger or DTAC 115grain bullets. The application for this rifle will be almost exclusively to taking shots out to 600yards and under at steel/paper targets. The occasional 1,000 yard shot will be taking as well. Some general hunting (Whitetail, Hogs, Varmints) will be done too. I am far from knowledgeable to knowing what works best, however, these are the components I had in mind:

1. Surgeon Action (Provided)
2. Surgeon Bottom Metal
3. McMillan A-5 stock with 6 QD flush cups, 1 front stud, and adjustable cheek weld finished in 33% Black/33% OD/33% Gray
4. Krieger fluted barrel with some type of varmint heavy contour, 1 in 7.5 twist. Barrel would be threaded to accept Surefire brake/adaptor for suppressor. 22” Length??????
5. Jewell trigger set at 2.5lbs.
6. Badger or Surgeon 30mm rings.
7. Black Cerakote finish.
8. Pillar bedded.

I’m in no rush to complete this build; however, a reasonable price quote and timeline would be a factor in making my decision to go forward with the build. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Respectfully,

Papagallos </span>

Of all the builders I sent this email to, only one has responded. And that builder was G.A. Precision. In fact, they answered in what seemed to be within a couple of hours. We've exchanged emails discussing available parts and the whole works, and I should be sending them my receiver next week. I'm very excited, but I still doubt my barrel length selection, etc. I wouldn't mind having a 20" barrel but I wonder if it will have a negative impact in accuracy out to the stated yardage. Any suggestions, advice, or critiques as to my build is greatly appreciated. This is a last minute "peace of mind" thing knowing that I've selected the perfect specs for my application.

Thanks in advance.

-Papagallos

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

I'm in the process of building a couple of 6XC's that will shoot the 115 DTAC's. One rifle is complete and has a 24" barrel on it and the other will probably be 26". Both rifles will have brakes so the impact can be seen in the scope. With the .243 Win, I personally wouldn't go shorter than 24". I'd be affraid of loosing too much velocity with a 20" barrel and 22" would be the absolute minimum I'd go.

I think the velocity of the 24" 6XC with 115's is around 2,900 to 2,950. The 115's being used are Boron Nitride coated.

Good luck with your build.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Go with 24", don't cut the legs out from under it.

Also, there's no reason imho to run a Jewell at 2.5#, take it to 1.5# and it'll help your shooting. 1.5# is not too light if you are a safe shooter.

Do you have a Surefire suppressor? If not then I'd just thread 5/8x24 and use the new RAD Brake, then you can use any thread on suppressor in the future. I'd take a TBAC or a Shark over a Surefire and they are cheaper.

I still owe you those pictures......give me 5 minutes.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

I think this one is 25"

 

[Papagallos]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

jasonk and wnroscoe,

Those are the details that I need, and which I am clearly overlooking. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Papagallos]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think this one is 25"

</div></div>

Wow!!! Color scheme?

 

[jasonk]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

I think it's Surgeons "Dark Woods", you'd have to ask McMillan to confirm.

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Are Surgeon actions drop in replacements for Rem 700's? Can you use an AICS stock for example (which is drop in from Rem 700). Just curious as I am in the thinking process of a build.

 

[JerkeeJoe]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Here's my Surgeon/Kriger .243. Surgeon 591 26" 1:8" melonited medium palma contour barrel.

I just took it out and shot it for the first time today and was very very happy with it. Based on a buddy's .243 dope, we figured it was running the 107 SMKs at around 3100fps. Made lots of hits at 1000 and a hit at a mile.

Yes surgeon actions are drop in replacements for Rem 700. HOWEVER, you will have to open up the bolt handle channel for the straight surgeon bolt handle to go all the way down.

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Pablo,

I agree with William and Jason on that caliber. The .243Win is fairly overbore. It needs some barrel length to let the bullet ride the pressure curve up a little longer. I would not go shorter than 24".

After all, most go to the .243Win for its flat trajectory and minimal wind drift. A short barrel will certainly shoot accurately but it will also penalize the .243Win badly on drop and drift numbers.

If you are dying for a short barrel, possibly look at the 6XC or 6x47 which have smaller case capacities, typically run faster powders and both would be more efficient in a short barrel.

Since you threw hunting into the list, I would stay with the .243Win so I could run the heavier bullets at the highest velocities anyway. I vote 24-26" on the barrel.

Ultimately, just make sure you have your builder involved with all of your decisions. Make sure you are in their comfort zone and ask their opinion also. Most are shooters too.

Good luck with your project.

No wind,
Terry

 

[Papagallos]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Mr. Cross,

PM sent.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Pablo,

First off, congratulations on the new build. I'm sure it's an exciting time. I own a custom build based off of a Surgeon 591 and can say you will not be disappointed.

The only issues at large appear to be your choice of barrel length. I'm going to throw a wrench into the mix here and argue that you may want to revisit your barrel manufacturer choice and barrel length.

If you are considering a shorter barrel you are right on track. It is a well settled principle, as laid by by Warren Page decades ago, that a shorter barrel is more accurate than a longer one, all other things being equal. The only rational for a longer barrel is for more velocity to reduce the uncetainties of wind drift and gravitational drop.

The idea is to get as close to a 'best of both worlds' scenario as we can. We want the shortest barrel that will give us the flatest trajectory. My reccomendation is the fantastic Brougthon 5C barrel at 22" length with their No. 5.75 contour. It will slight on the heavy side but their canted barreling lands will give more velocity then a Krieger with standard lands. And ask almost anyone here who owns a Broughton and they will assure you of their accuracy. I own one myself and regaularly shoot sub .25 MOA.

Obviously Kreiger makes oustanding barrels, but in this case I would take a hard look at a Broughton.

Jason

 

[savage110]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think this one is 25"

</div></div>
Nice rifle Jason, is this one a .243?

 

[Papagallos]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Jason,

Thanks for the wrench throwing.

I've decided to go with a 24" barrel. GAP doesn't deal with barrel makers other than Bartlein. Unless you provide them with your choice of Krieger, Obermeyer, Schneider, Broughton, etc, they won't bother in getting it for you upon request. I've read Bartlein barrels are top notch barrels as well. So, I'm going with their suggested 1 in 7.5 Bartlein barrel. I know, I know, all I have to do is provide the barrel of choice myself, but I don't want to go through all the hassle. Contour is still another issue.

I'm leaning towards a Krieger MTU #10 type contour for my Bartlein. I'll be requesting it to be fluted, but not fluted too heavy.

Other than that, I'm good to go. Maybe I'll have my rifle ready by July or August of next year. Damn, it sounds like a long time to wait. Geez! Oh well, patience is a virtue.

-Papagallos

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It will slight on the heavy side but their canted barreling lands will give more velocity then a Krieger with standard lands. And ask almost anyone here who owns a Broughton and they will assure you of their accuracy. I own one myself and regaularly shoot sub .25 MOA.

Obviously Kreiger makes oustanding barrels, but in this case I would take a hard look at a Broughton.

Jason </div></div>

Jason,

I have not seen this to be true. I have chambered a good many 5C blanks. They shoot very well but I have not found any pattern to them shooting faster than a conventional bore profile from other top makers. Ditto for the other 5R, 5 whatever profiles. Very, very good barrels but not seeing any increase in accuracy, speed, barrel life or fouling characteristics.

My personal .308 is a standard Krieger at 18.5". It throws Fed GM308M at 2600 and my 155Scenars at 2760. The last 20 or so 18.5" Kriegers I've built have shot about the same speed as the "tight bore" barrels everyone is raving about. I assure you, I can get any barrel out there and yet have no plans to go to a tight bore or 5R.

If you have statistics to share that otherwise contradict my findings, I would like to hear them. Always willing to learn.

In my opinion, the Broughton is a top shelf barrel and worthy of this project but I would not recommend making the decision based soley on the belief that you are going to pick up velocity over other top barrels.

Best,
Terry

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Papagayos,
Nice to see you getting a first rate set up. GA will make you a nice build. 6x47 is a great one as well. You might consider it.

 

[Papagallos]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Thank you.

I've been reading about the 6x47. Sweet cartridge. The mighty .243 Winchester is one of my all-time favorite calibers. I have always loved it. In fact, it's been part of my shooting and hunting experience for the past 25 years (since I've been 8 years old) I've taken deer with it out to 350 yards with no problem. My most memorable shot was taken at a whitetail buck running from an open sendero into thick brush. I nailed him just in time before he got lost in the brush.

Plenty of hogs, javelina, and coyotes have fallen to it as well. All this with an old factory Sako L579.

My uncle is the lucky owner of such fine rifle. He's the one that has a nice collection of stock and custom rifles. My uncle has never allowed us to buy rifles for the same reason that he has one in almost every caliber imaginable. Ok, not every caliber, but you get the idea. They are his prized possessions. I figured it's time that I had one built for myself. He has no clue that I am having a custom rifle built, however. This is what he'll say when I surprise him with it, "Chingada madre! You don't need a rifle when I have all these rifles for you and your cousins. When I leave this world, a few of them will be yours. Pendejo (with love

)!!!"

So, yeah, I love the .243. When the time and funds permit, I'll venture out with another custom rifle in a different caliber. In the mean time, the .243 deserves, and has earned the right, to be my first custom rifle.

Cheers!

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Sounds good Pablo.

All the best.

Jason

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

Terry,

Thanks for the input. You're a reputed riflemaker and no doubt have more knowledge of this subject than I. But my findings are based on comparisons with published load data. I have a 21.5" Broughton barrel chambered for 260 Rem. Going by the load manuals for predicted velocity for a 24" barrel length, I almost always get within +/- 20 to 50 fps. Obviously it's a risky proposition to compare barrels of a different maker, and we all know that no two barrels of even the same maker are alike. But since Broughton President Tim North reports increased velocity with the 5C barrels it seems more than a coindicence.

My findings follow what other Hide members here have reported. I don't have their posts at my fingertips; but there is some evidence out there. Of course it could all be a coincidence and nothing to do with the 5C canted lands, perhaps just a right combination of barrel, bullets, powder, atmospheric density, etc..

Jason

 

[adam.anderson6]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

I'm very interested on how your build turns out. I'm looking to have a custom .243 built when I get back from this deployment. Your specs are right online for how I would like to have mine built and for the same purposes. And after reading a lot on GA Precision and George’s 243 I’m sold.

What made you go with the 7.5 twist instead of the 8.0? Is there an added benefit from one to the other?

 

[Papagallos]

Re: Surgeon 591 SA Build - ADVICE PLEASE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Intensity</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm very interested on how your build turns out. I'm looking to have a custom .243 built when I get back from this deployment. Your specs are right online for how I would like to have mine built and for the same purposes. And after reading a lot on GA Precision and George’s 243 I’m sold.

What made you go with the 7.5 twist instead of the 8.0? Is there an added benefit from one to the other?
</div></div>

I've read that 7.5 twist is ideal for pushing 115 grain DTACs or Berger VLDs. Other than that I have no other reason for selecting a 7.5 twist.

I'm selling it and it is not even done yet. Interested? Click on the link below or PM for details.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...349#Post2650349