Gunsmithing Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

[19Scout77]

For my next build, I considered Stiller, Lawton, Surgeon RSR, Pierce and Phoenix for the action, and thought I made my decision with the Surgeon.

Then somebody had to throw a wrench in the works and offer me a Borden Alpine.

The rifle will be a "lighter" weight .243 that will see a good deal of hard use in comps. It'll be subjected to rain, dirt and cow chip induced slides down steep hills! I am sticking to the KISS theory with this one.

Anybody with actual experience with this Borden action some useful input on the subject? Thanks.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine SSR

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1393510&gonew=1#UNREAD

It doesn't matter which one you choose, they are all good.

What is more important is who you get to put it together.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine SSR

Thanks--but that thread does not address the Borden.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine SSR

bump

 

[Hunt]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine SSR

I have a Surgeon 591 and a Borden Alpine. The Alpine is definitely a tighter bolt/receiver fit. The other item to think about is what scope base you will run. On my Borden, I went with a Seekins 20MOA rail and it took a little time to get it. Borden also runs 18TPI in the tenon for threads as opposed to Surgeon's 16TPI (Remington default). The RSR/591 has a Rem. style extractor as opposed to Borden using a Sako style extractor in his bolts.

I don't think you could go wrong with either as I like both of mine for different reasons. To put it bluntly, the Surgeon is a beefy piece of steel designed for abuse and the Borden feels more svelte like the bolt is riding on air.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine SSR

Thanks for the info! Any reason to think a Borden can't take a little abuse? My gear gets used.

 

[Red_SC]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It'll be subjected to rain, dirt and cow chip induced slides down steep hills! </div></div>

Sounds like you're planning on going back to ASC!

 

[Hunt]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

19Scout,
It will take the some abuse but it's pretty tight. However, it's not as tight as Jim's Rimrock line. For your needs, I think I would go with a 591 or RSR if you know for a fact that it will get dirty. My Borden was built as a .223AI which is used more on a bench than off a bipod.

Again, I really like both of these actions for different reasons. You can't go wrong with either but I do think the Borden will need more attention to cleaning it then the Surgeon. Just my $.02 from a guy owning both.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It'll be subjected to rain, dirt and cow chip induced slides down steep hills! </div></div>

Sounds like you're planning on going back to ASC! </div></div>

You couldn't keep me away!!

 

[skeetlee]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

I had a surgeon round action, and i was shocked out how loose the bolt was in this action. It locked up just fine and shot really well. Not to mention some of the finest machine work i have ever seen. I later learned that Surgeon wants the action a bit loose so it will work every single time it is needed to!! There pretty and they are shooters, but if a tight fit is a must better look else were. I have heard that surgeon has a tighter version of there actions. Thats all i know!! Lee

 

[rijndael]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There pretty and they are shooters, but if a tight fit is a must better look else were.</div></div>

Order the action with a single shot bolt and it'll be tighter.

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skeetlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There pretty and they are shooters, but <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">if a tight fit is a must better look else were</span></span>. I have heard that surgeon has a tighter version of there actions. Thats all i know!! Lee </div></div>

Why would you post that in an authoritative manner without getting the correct info first?

Anyone wanting an RSR or M591 with close tolerance bolt, simply orders the action with the close tolerance bolt.
Surgeon offers 2 bolt diameters specifically for this situation.
If you want BR type bolt fit, they have it ready to go.
If you want field/duty type bolt fit, they have it ready to go.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Surgeon and the Borden are both very good actions. I have built on both. However, they are different animals and you should decide in advance what you want out of your finished project.

 

[Johnson184]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

Noob question... will having the bolt fit tighter make it more accurate or more consistent in accuracy?

 

[Johnson184]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

Anyone?

 

[dmg308]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Johnson184</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Noob question... will having the bolt fit tighter make it more accurate or more consistent in accuracy? </div></div>

Theoretically yes in application........maybe

 

[scotharr]

Re: Surgeon RSR vs. Borden Alpine

Well, here's a slightly different angle. I just built two rifles, one with the Surgeon 591 and the other with the Surgeon RSR. After weighing the components, I was shocked to find the RSR action was only 2 ounces lighter than the 591 action....2 ounces. Based on this info, I would never recommend buying the RSR action....unless you are trying to save a few bucks. But, then I'd recommend to save a little longer and get the 591...way better to have an integral rail and lug.

PS. There are plenty of great shooters using the Borden actions...can't go wrong with either. Here is a nice article German wrote: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/08/borden-rifles-rimrock-brl-action-by.html

As Terry mentioned, you can probably get either company to make the action to your specs.