Swat snipers-average distance to target

[Arbiter]

As far as NV is concerned, I agree with you in that more need to be issued and trained on them for that worst case scenario...however only 1% of swat sniper engagements involve the use of NV (as of the 2009 report), and that is for very good reasons.

That statement begs the question...did only 1% of engagements involve the use of NV because the other 99% did not require it, or did only a fraction of SWAT snipers possess and have the training to employ NV on a call-out? For that statistic to be of any relevance, what we really need to ask is A: what percentage of teams surveyed had NV available to them and trained in its use, and B: what percentage of teams who had NV and recorded an engagement utilize the NV during the call-out?

My extremely rough estimate would be that the majority of teams either don't have an effective in-line NV system, or they have it and don't train with it. It's a hell of a cost outlay, particularly when countless agencies can do little more than say "Here's a rifle, here's some ammo, everything else is on you." And it doesn't seem like a particularly straightforward purchase: outside of trying out other team's equipment during training events and such, there's not always much chance to actually test competing products on the market on one's own rifle. You could ask for T&E units..we all know how well that works out.

 

[Delta4-3]

I'd like to know what percentage of suspects were engaged while being inside the bounds of their constitutional rights. That aside, our local dept. Was offered free suppressors for every officer and turned them down because they had no idea that silencers are a safety device, not a James Bond device. They also turned down free MOUT/raid training from a group of vets that have fought in the bloodiest urban battles since Vietnam. I felt for the officers, who are good friends of mine for the most part, because their sherrif thinks training is outdated since we live in Mayberry (Mayberry with ALOT OF METH LABS) I hope it doesn't get any of them killed.

FYI I don't live in Mayberry, that was a sarcastic metaphor.

 

[Sharpsman]

My first real post:

As a relatively inexperiencd 'ex'-STA sniper with a forward artillery patrol, I will be the first to say that a great many recreational shooters have bettered me in competitions.

They had incredible abilities to judge windage, cosine and ballistics indicators

I however could lie in a Iraqi latrine ditch for two days and still carry out the tasks assigned to me or my buddie.

A sniper is the sum of his or her parts - not solely the myopic 'one-shot one-kill' mythos perported by Hollywood and shooting forums.

Having worked with police teams I humbly testify to their overly complicated mission planning and the extraneous legal bullshit, that would otherwise paralyse the average civilian and military rifleman working under pressure.

"I however could lie in a Iraqi latrine ditch for two days and still carry out the tasks assigned to me or my buddie."

And THAT folks is the difference betwix the mindset and psyche that is required for an individual under REAL COMBAT conditions and a 'wannabe'!! Most...can't make the grade! I've known many folks that could outshoot possibly Carlos Hathcock but NONE had the mindset that Carlos had when it came to being in field conditions under extreme duress; crapping in your pants and pissing on yourself for hours or days at a time such that the task at hand could be successful!!

 

[pawprint2]

^^^You know a lot of great shooters!! Many people forget that Carlos Hathcock won the Wimbledon Cup! Along with his well known (not well enough, he was a Great American Hero) combat shooting skills. Carlos, could (and did) do it in the field, and in National Comp.. You're in rare company indeed. God Bless.

 

[Sharpsman]

^^^You know a lot of great shooters!! Many people forget that Carlos Hathcock won the Wimbledon Cup! Along with his well known (not well enough, he was a Great American Hero) combat shooting skills. Carlos, could (and did) do it in the field, and in National Comp.. You're in rare company indeed. God Bless.

The wind was strong that day at Perry! When Carlos came off the line....he had on 19 MOA of windage!!

 

[piranhasniper]

The officer that took the shot was shot by the bad guy. Tyler Texas is where the incident occurred. (I believe, there were two speakers from Texas. Great guys by the way. ). It ended with the guy giving up 2-3 days later. My thing is that if you take on the responsibility, you better damn well know your equipment and yourself.

As far as the training difference between 50 and 70 yards, to me there is none. It's twenty yards.
KJ

Just found this old thread....
The 600 yard shot happened in Odessa...the two sniper shootings in Tyler were: (41 yards headshot on suspect barricaded in a car shooting at officers) and (50 yards unsupported hear/lung shot-suspect walking with high powered rifle after killing Constable Dale Geddie) trust me..I was there..did the 2012 Sniperweek debriefs.
We stress training at all distances but really focus on positional/unsupported shooting. That makes the bipod close shots easy.

 

[Thumper580]

Interesting thread. 2 observations/ comments
1. For an 11 foot shot I would use a sidearm not a scoped rifle
2. I shot IPSC for many years and always thought it would be excellent training for law enforcement patrol officers. Movement, speed and accuracy would go along way on the street. We always joked it would be a criminals nightmare to pull a gun on an IPSC shooter who was carrying.