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Rifle Scopes SWFA 1-4X SS

Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

About 250 rounds down range and I like the scope, the turrets run nice, 10 mils prevents getting lost in any dope change you'd make on an M4. The site picture is very nice, the glass is very good, the reticle does need some tweaks, but SWFA knows this and is working on it.


If you are in the market for a 1-4, it might be worth waiting on this one.

I have yet to see the PST, but the bar is definitely pretty high for them.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the illumination truly is daytime visible like the S&B Short dot, then the Outer Ghost Ring is not needed at all. Matter of fact, the outer ghost ring will just block too much of the target on 1x with the outer ghost ring. That is the one regret when I got the Swarovski 1x6. I should have not bought the one with the outer ghost ring.

1x4Reticle3.jpg
</div></div>

The circle in this reticle needs to be retained. Illumination may be daylight visible, but this will not be an aimpoint, so battery life on a daylight visible setting will be pretty short. That combined with no autoshut off feature, and sometimes difficult battery supplies in the field will lead to the illumination being off or out of power at the wrong time. So the circle needs to be retained as the primary close range, reactive shooting aiming aid, with the illumination as a secondary lowlight NV or interior aiming aid, that will be deliberately switched on for a specific situation. I don't envision that it would be left on all the time.

I'm thinking a circle for a combat type reticle. For 3 gun or LE use, I agree the circle could go.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I finally made it to the range today. Here are some shots:

I tested on two different AR's:

PICT0109.JPG


And although it's not exactly the type of rifle this scope is meant for, my 6.5 is the most accurate so it had to get some playtime as well:

PICT0126.JPG


And it didn't disappoint. Here are two groups from 300 yds, measuring 1.7" and 2.2":

PICT0149.JPG


Pretty decent for a 4X at that range.

The glass was very impressive. I was actually able to see a couple 22 caliber holes at 100 yds through it. Not many and not very well naturally, but that was pretty impressive for a 4X.

4X at 100 yds:

PICT0127.JPG


4X at 300 yds:

PICT0130.JPG


1X:

PICT0135.JPG



I can't wait to get my hands on one with the new reticle. Other than that, I'm very impressed so far. A couple more beauty shots:

PICT0107.JPG


PICT0105.JPG


PICT0103.JPG


 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Very nice! Defnitely looks like a performer, and the reticle does grow on you some.
wink.gif
I still REALLY wish those 10mil turrets were on the 3-9x42 and 10x42... Any chance of a retro fit in the future?
laugh.gif
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Basher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice! Defnitely looks like a performer, and the reticle does grow on you some.
wink.gif
I still REALLY wish those 10mil turrets were on the 3-9x42 and 10x42... Any chance of a retro fit in the future?
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Chris at SWFA says no, the mechanicals of the 1-4 allow for the turrets, the 3-9 and 10X won't accept these turrets.

Yea, the reticle does grow on you, I like it as is (with heavier posts at 3,6,and 9o'clock for the 1X view.) I know many here want a more technical reticle; however, I agree with t SWFA's concept that the reticle needs to be usable by a grunt with no optics training. It should be simple as an ACOG but with more capabilities, and the 1-4SS does that well.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Please tell me they are going to make one W/O target turrets. I don't really like them on a scope Im going to have on an M4/M16A4
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Jon A, you mentioned a new reticle? Same idea as the 1st prototype or completely different? or do you know that? I'm just curious if there also might be an update on the production times as this seems worth holding off on the burris i was thinking of getting.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I don't know the specifics yet. Chris says they may actually offer two reticles to keep everybody happy--one with simple mil marks and one with a BDC. Either way though they'll have thick, heavy posts at 3, 6 and 9 to be very visible.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CD0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jon A-Are they all going to be FFP with target type turrets? </div></div>


Just an educated guess, but I'd say yea, FFP for now.


It is a great scope, can't wait to get the finished product.

For those who don't like the BDC, shoot it for awhile, it grows on you.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Not unless the BDC is the same for a .223 and a .308!! Just put a friggin' mil-dot in it with a big circle!!

Can't wait to see the finished scope!!
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Yeah, I don't see them changing from FFP anytime soon as that would be a huge design change. Don't worry, it will work very well with an improved reticle. I'd guess locking or covered turrets at sometime in the future is more likely but I wouldn't expect anything right away. Lots of people want the scope now as is (sans reticle) so I think the first order of business is to get it into production.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I think the reticle haters have won, Chris says they will probably offer a mil scale reticle and the BDC reticle.

Maybe I'll get one of each and compare and contrast.

I wasn't a huge an of the BDC when the whole thing started, I really liked it after a few hundred rounds down the pipe (but agree it needs heavier lines at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock, else the reticle is tough to acquire at 1X.)
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

After looking at this and knowing all the good stuff SWFA does, I may be holding out for a 1-4 for my RRA carbine I just traded into.

I'm pretty sure that a BDC for M193/M855 should be doable (within 2moa) out to 600, but the biggest problem is that they usually don't share a common zero perfectly.

I'm with Switch in that a simple "eye drawn to the aiming point" reticle that is of an easy size to relate to would be best. I think a reticle like the S&B P3 (lit crosshair just in center 1/2 mil out fron center on each of the four axiis) with bold mildots and a heavy circle around (10 mil diameter/36" at 100) would be great. The 10mil circle works well to ascertain range, and the illuminates axis should allow a 100yd zero in the center of the crosshairs, hold the top of the cross (-1/2mil) for close in and the bottom of the cross (+1/2 mil for) 200.......any further tape yout dope to your stick or memorize it!

 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I was curious what loads you were using with the ballistic reticle so it worked correctly with all parts. The JPJ1 on my SN4 works killer but only for M855(62FMJBT @ 3150fps...or equal, ie M4 Carbine 14" to 16" bbl)
It would seem to me that any ballistic reticle would be off at part of it's points with different loads due to the weight and velocity of the rounds differences, or not
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I didn't mess with the BDC, that will all be changed anyway. But to your point, you are correct that a BDC reticle is only going to be <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">exactly</span></span> on for a specific load in specific conditions. But how this affects your actual use depends upon what you expect from it.

If you expect precision first round hits at 700 yds, you'll probably be disappointed unless everything is 100% perfectly calibrated. But that's not really what this scope is intended for.

If what you actually plan on using the BDC for is center of mass hits out to 400 or even 500 yds if the ammo even relatively close, a BDC reticle can work for a very wide variety of ammo and conditions and get that done keeping the POI within 1"-2" of your point of aim.

The trick when using ammo that doesn't match is to zero it at 300 yds with the 300 yd mark of the BDC. This drives the large angular errors in the difference in the trajectory curves to 100 and 200 yds where they don't matter nearly as much (smaller linear errors) and makes you much closer at 400 and 500 than if you had zeroed at 100 yds.

I'm usually not a fan of BDC reticles for most applications, but I've got a 4X ACOG with the JP reticle which is calibrated for 77 SMK's and there is just nothing I've seen that's faster for banging steel from 100-500 yds. I'm currently using 73 Bergers but that reticle will be OK with anything from 62-80 grains out to 500 on paper plate sized targets using the method above. Of course if I loaded 40 grain varmint bullets at top velocities or something, it would be way off. But who would varmint hunt with a 4X scope? Most who use this scope will be using something at least 62 grains+ at fairly moderate velocities.

600 yds is a different story. I find this is where differences begin to get drastic for the 5.56 (and 7.62 sized rounds for that matter) even for somewhat similar loads. That goes back to keeping expectations realistic. An AR with a 4X scope isn't the best tool for that in the first place, but if somebody wants to do it he should really know his dope and dial.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I think for many people if they can nail plate sized targets easily out to 400 or even 500 yds they'll be thrilled. While I'm not a BDC reticle fan either, I think it could be more useful to many of the buyers than some may be giving it credit for.

And in the end, Chris has said they're going to make both types so it shouldn't be an issue either way for anybody. For those who don't like them, get the simple mil reticle. The scopes have very nice turrets and tracking has been perfect in my tests so you can certainly dial to whatever precision you are capable.

On a related note, have you actually chronographed M855 out of those barrel lengths? I haven't but have seen reports of velocities much lower than that.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

At a price point of around $750.00, I would have to go with the Trijicon Accupoint. I like the idea of the SS 1-4, but not at $750.00.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At a price point of around $750.00, I would have to go with the Trijicon Accupoint. I like the idea of the SS 1-4, but not at $750.00. </div></div>

Accupoints do not come with either a BDC or a mil reticle, which is why I don't own one.

Kudos to SWFA for putting out a product like this, I can't wait to pick up one of these scopes with a mil based reticle.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At a price point of around $750.00, I would have to go with the Trijicon Accupoint. I like the idea of the SS 1-4, but not at $750.00. </div></div>

Agreed
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

There's nothing wrong with the 3-9, it's a very nice scope, but I can see how this is more expensive. HD glass, a 4:1 zoom optical system vs. 3:1 with no tunneling effect on the lower power (of which the 3-9 does have some) and it's illuminated--neither the 3-9X or 10XHD are.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Damn, thanks for the dope Jon! It would have never occured to me to use a 300M zero with a 5.56 and that is my typical 7.62 zero. I bet all my stuff will be solid enough for 10" circles after that.
I do know any 1-4x Circle Dot, etc, scope is a peremiter defense/cqb piece as well. It's for getting really fast center mass strikes and not 1" precision. I also know from experience if you zero at 25M or even 100M with a BDC reticle in a 5.56 you are going to be way off all over the rest of the reticle.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I have the HD and the glass is fantastic. understanding this to be the same glass count me in. can't wait until its available.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

The only 1-4X I could compare it with was a Meopta 1-4X, glass was quite similar.

I too had a 10X HD, I'd say close to same glass if not same glass.

Very good glass.

I too like the 1-4 Accupoint, but really like the 1-4X SS turrets - and multiple aiming points.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<span style="font-weight: bold"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I think that if Trijicon simply added a reticle with holdoffs/overs to their TRG Accupoint 1-4 line it would be about perfect. </div></div></span>

A huge +100 to this.

The lack of a decent BDC reticle or better yet, either Mils or MOA scales on their Accu-point TR24 line is the ONLY thing stopping me from purchasing one.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Gentlemen,

I present to you the latest reticle. It should need little description; I'll just let you all say what you think. Please forgive the pic quality as I was in a bit of a rush. Range pics will need to wait a few days. But for now, these should give you the general idea.

Remember the original:

PICT0076.JPG


PICT0063.JPG


New Mil Reticle:

DSC00293.JPG


DSC00367.JPG


DSC00317.JPG


DSC00372.JPG


DSC00345.JPG


DSC00347.JPG


DSC00353.JPG


DSC00351.JPG
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

You know, the SS's never really got me going, good optics, just a personal preference thing. But these could start to change that. I really like this reticle. Did I count 5 mils worth of hash marks with a larger mark at 2.5 mils?
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

They knocked it out of the park with that one. Is the illumination daylight visible?
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kyshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did I count 5 mils worth of hash marks with a larger mark at 2.5 mils? </div></div>
Each of those marks is 1 full Mil (remember it's only a 4X). The long marks are at 5 mils and 10 mils.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vereor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They knocked it out of the park with that one. Is the illumination daylight visible? </div></div>
It's brighter than the last one and definately daylight visible. However it's not bright enough to glow brightly in full bright sunshine. But with the thick, heavy posts, under those conditions you don't really need it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dantrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know when this is suppose to be available? </div></div>
I'm sorry, I don't. I'm sure Chris will chime in sooner or later.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gentlemen,

I present to you the latest reticle. It should need little description; I'll just let you all say what you think. </div></div>

That looks excellent. I'm counting 1 mil per hash mark and 10 mils total in each direction from center, is that right?
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Each of those marks is 1 full Mil (remember it's only a 4X). The long marks are at 5 mils and 10 mils.
</div></div>

Ah looks like you beat me by 2 minutes. That is a great reticle, I'm definitely getting one of these scopes.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I like the scope, but I shoot multi-gun and I am in search of the best scope for that type of shooting, alot of the big matches we shoot rather long distance with .223 AR's, I personally would like to have a scope with at least 1 x 6 or 1 x 8 , with a thin vertical line from center to 6 o'clock with some mil. marks kinda like a Hours but not as bussy, sometimes we half to turn our guns at 90 degrees and having a retical will help with that. but over all I would probally buy one to try, I have had a acupoint and a K-dot, I did'nt really like the acupoint and the k-dot was better, but just not what I am looking for.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I like the new Reticle, however FFP is a little odd on a 1-4x but then again what the hell do I know??

The price point seems a bit much as well. I'd pay 500 max for a low power. I guess its the PST for me..
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

This scope looks great. If it is of the same quality that my 3-9x ffp and two 10x HDs are (which I am sure it will be), I could see myself buying 3-4 of these.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I don't feel that I got my point across clearly enough in the first two posts.
smile.gif


Since I was one of the posters who did NOT like the previous BDC reticle, I have to make this much clear: this new reticle is <span style="font-style: italic">exactly</span> what I wanted and what I'd been waiting for. Great job SWFA, and thank you for listening.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

The reticle haters won, Chris says this will be the reticle at introduction, maybe a BDC later.

True, $750 ain't cheap, but play with one and the $750 seems far more reasonable.

When these are shipping, I'll definitely have one on an M4.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reticle haters won, Chris says this will be the reticle at introduction.</div></div>

Excellent news. Do you know when SWFA expects these to be hitting the market?
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

I'll Be Buying One, to put on my New Sig 556!
Thank You Sig Sauer for the $300.00 Rebate Check.
I'm Almost Halfway to my Optic!!
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

If they had caps for the turrets, it could be dual use.
 
Re: SWFA 1-4X SS

Excellent reticle--thanks for listening to the feedback. Definitely will buy one (or more) of these. There are really some great scopes coming out right now...