Gunsmithing takeing some weight off a barrel

[black_ump]

have a quick question. my msg90 is to heavy to hold it out right and shoot it the barrel is a heavy psg1 or .920 contour and from a guess i would say the rifle weights between 17 and 18 pounds when i hold it out ( like you would a deer rifle ) to aim at things its just way to forward heavy.

i was thinking one of two things:

1. send it out to have the barrel msg90 profiled

2. have the barrel fluted

question: will i loose accuracy by having any of these two done ?

 

[bohem]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

Get a good sling (not a single point tactical carbine sling) and practice with it, you'll be surprised how much easier it is to hit things with a heavy rifle.

Fluting isn't going to save you much weight and having it recontoured will be extremely expensive to get it done right.

Either one of those options would pay for a new Savage bolt gun in 308 that comes pre-fluted and will have better accuracy characteristics anyway.

 

[excess]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

I say this - go shoot some highpower tournaments with it before you make any changes. It won't be competitive and you won't fit in any class, but you will learn a lot. This is one of those were it is easier to fix the shooter than to fix the rifle.

 

[excess]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

I should have added this - my AR15 Service Rifle weighs very close to the weight you mention. For service rifle we can't use a sling for offhand (can for sitting and prone only). Go to some CMP / Service Rifle shoots with what you have got and you will learn to shoot it.

 

[black_ump]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

when i put the rifle on the bench and on the ground that's not a problem i have a bipod but to stand up and hold it out.... ya that is not gonna work

bohem - i dont have a sling for this rifle ( yet ) its hard to find a sling for the msg and psg rifles. i could use a regular deer hunter sling to the bipod and attach to the stock but i dont like that i want to get a fixed butt ar15 style stock just havent got their yet.

i remember holding an msg90 clone and that turned down barrel made a huge difference jason at igf can do it for 275 but befor he does any thing i have a few questions to ask.

1. is the barrel spec's going to be true msg90 profile

2. will it be done on cnc

those are my biggest worries out side of if it will change accuracy at all

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

HOW would it be done on a cnc?

Im sorry but I think that you need to take a break from trying to play copycat.

 

[excess]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

Hit the gym, or get this little girl to teach you:

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/annieoakly.jpg

Her sling is attached, but she's not using it. Man up.

 

[Brain]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">my msg90</span> is to heavy to hold it out right and shoot it the barrel is a heavy psg1 or .920 contour...

i was thinking one of two things:

1. send it out to <span style="font-weight: bold">have the barrel msg90 profiled</span>
</div></div>

Wouldn't a msg90 already have a msg90 profile?

 

[black_ump]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HOW would it be done on a cnc?

Im sorry but I think that you need to take a break from trying to play copycat. </div></div>

please tell me your smarter then this ? if not take the retarded viking helmet off your head.

the barrel would be pressed out put in a nc lathe and have a center at one end and jaws at the other obviously and it would be turned depending on the persons set up the tool pressure might need turned down it could take for a long cycle maybe 30 min thats how i would do it, to put it on an engine lathe would be crazy not half as accurate as the nc.

and i didnt use a factory or even a hkparts.net barrel i bought a heavy psg barrel from vector a long while back thus no msg90 contour

 

[black_ump]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

hitting the gym might be another solution i do think in all honesty

 

[Guest]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

please tell me your smarter then this ? if not take the retarded viking helmet off your head.

</div></div>

This is what most of us have thought for about 1300 posts now, Mr Pot.

1) Despite what you think, several folks have done hk94 to mp5 conversions by shortening the barrel in a lathe without removing the barrel.

2) Even if you manage to take some material off or shorten the barrel, you still won't be happy in how it feels. You'll be back on here asking some other silly question.

3) This system was not designed with off-hand. With the exception of certain competition rifles, no rifle is intended to be shot in this manner. I'm sure i am not alone when I say that a standing, unsupported rifle shot is not my first option for shooting if I can help it.

 

[Guest]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
1. is the barrel spec's going to be true msg90 profile

</div></div>

As anything else on your rifle close to spec? NO

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

i think the issue isn't one of modifying the rifle to conform to the discipline, but one of finding something that far better suited to the disipline from the get-go. IMHO, anything much over 10-11 lb is not suitible for Offhand.

Greg

 

[excess]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hitting the gym might be another solution i do think in all honesty</div></div>

Right! We like to spend money on these things, it's part of our hobby. But, it often works better to spend time and money improving the shooter than it does trying to improve the rifle.

 

[excess]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i think the issue isn't one of modifying the rifle to conform to the discipline, but one of finding something that far better suited to the disipline from the get-go. IMHO, anything much over 10-11 lb is not suitible for Offhand.

Greg</div></div>

Greg, with all due respect, I disagree. I understand we are not talking about ServiceRifle here, but I'll use it as my example. Looking at DPMS's website their DCM model weighs 9.35 pounds with no magaznine (just one example where I could find a weight). For added stability many Service Rifle shooters add a Ray Vin lead weight under the handguard, and another inside the stock. These weigh two pounds and 3-3/4 pounds respectively. That's 15.1 pounds, and is typical among service rifle shooters. In fact, I am pretty certain my Krieger free float handguard may be heavier than what's on the DPMS guns.

Again, I am not calling you wrong, but guns in that range are routinely used for offhand shooting out to some pretty long ranges, especially considering they use peep sights.

 

[Guest]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

CNC,

I see where you are coming from, and although they are using "service" rifles, I would consider that a very specialized sport. And even then, 10 of the 40 shots (IIRC) are from standing, and one still uses a sling, shooting glove, and shooting coat.Granted the dicipline and skill required are very great, but a 15 lb AR doesn't offer much in the real world.


Most of the people taking real-world off hand shots are usually hunters. And with the exception of varmint hunters, most don't want a heavy gun. Personally, I like the Jeff Cooper test in that you hold a rifle with one hand, straight out for 60 seconds...if you can't it's too heavy.

Again, the call for any person to shoot a PSG1/MSG90 standing, unsupported is about nill. This is assuming: No bipod, no sling, no barrier/barricade/bench support, not in prone, kneeling, or sitting positions. And unless rules mandate an unsupported, standing shot, a wiser mine might opt for a change of position/tactics instead. If he wants to do that, he should get a 10/22.....it's cheaper.

 

[excess]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

Pointblank,

You are right, no doubt. I'm just saying, if he truly wants to shoot the HK offhand, my money is on shooter practice and training rather than gun modification. I think most of us, certainly myself included, imrpove faster with money spent at the range than we do on new toys.

Most of the local Service Rifle / CMP shoots would let him show up and give it a try with the HK just to try and draw a new shooter in, and I'd bet he in time could do things offhand he never dreamed he could.

 

[Guest]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pointblank,

You are right, no doubt. I'm just saying, if he truly wants to shoot the HK offhand, my money is on shooter practice and training rather than gun modification. I think most of us, certainly myself included, imrpove faster with money spent at the range than we do on new toys.

Most of the local Service Rifle / CMP shoots would let him show up and give it a try with the HK just to try and draw a new shooter in, and I'd bet he in time could do things offhand he never dreamed he could. </div></div>

True, but I can tell you're not too familiar with BlackUMP and his....."work" shall we say.

 

[former naval person]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

Taking 20 lbs off the rear end and belly of the shooter would be more effective than 2 lbs off the barrel. JMHO

 

[Hooper]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

recontour

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

Good points all, and BTW, NRA Highpower Offhand does (IIRC) not permit the use of a sling.

I have hefted (..and not necessarily fired...) pretty much everything from a single shot .22LR to a Barrett M82A1 in the Offhand, and my personal preferences are for a lighter gun in the Offhand. I bespoke from those preferences. My apologies for not making that clearer.

I make exception for the M60, hog that it is. It kinda annoyed me that my skills as an AN-PRC 25 Radio Operator usually outweighed my skills as an M60 Gunner when we got sorted out for the Night Ambush Patrols.

As a combat Veteran, it's my considered opinion that the Offhand position is my least favorite when rounds are going both ways. Were I to engage in such activities today, (the Sun will likely rise in the West first...), I would probably be fielding my Garand, which resides at the heaviest end of my weight preference range for offhand shooting.

I can still hit a pieplate at 100 Offhand with the Garand, 8 of 8.

So don't be a pieplate in my AO...

Greg

 

[MLC]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

What state are you going to be hunting deer with your rifle?
Please say PA.

 

[cmh2007]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

My model 700 weighs an honest 16lbs and i am able to shoot it offhand without much difficulty. you will never be able to stop all swing, but a heavier rifle can minimize it to some degree

 

[Badshot308]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

He still hasn't shot those .4" groups with this rifle. He needs to do that before anything else...

 

[KYS]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

Try this:


http://www.goldsgym.com/locator/

 

[nobbie333]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

how long is your barrel on your rifle

 

[black_ump]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

barrel is 26" 2" longer then msg90 barrel, i have given up on the whole taking weight off the barrel i have a bipod for a reason so

 

[nobbie333]

Re: takeing some weight off a barrel

fluting or cutting down the barrel will change your accuracy it may be positive or negative