Techniques for determining Clean/Cold bore shot
- Thread starter thefitter
- Start date
Re: Techniques for determining Clean/Cold bore shot
Not quite sure I understand your question. If you have a good load, or one that best fits your rifle, then you should be able to shoot it accurately whether it's cold bore or not. My AIAW will consitently put first round into a 1" dot at 100 yards whether it's dirty or clean. If it didn't, then the reason is me, not the gun, or load.
Not quite sure I understand your question. If you have a good load, or one that best fits your rifle, then you should be able to shoot it accurately whether it's cold bore or not. My AIAW will consitently put first round into a 1" dot at 100 yards whether it's dirty or clean. If it didn't, then the reason is me, not the gun, or load.
Re: Techniques for determining Clean/Cold bore shot
My question comes from the fact that many here don't clean their rifles very often - "only after the groups start opening up" ... "then it takes (insert number) rounds to foul, and it shoots well again".
I was following this, simply because I was trying to get consistancy with factory rounds.
Then I started hand loading and I read that as the barrel heats up it changes POI. And that people wait (insert number) of minutes between OCW/Ladder groups.
All this is starting to make me feel that I can't count on my rounds hitting were I want unless - the barrel is just so dirty and just so warm.
I think I am more interested in knowing exactly were the round will go if I just pull it out of the case and fire. I can always keep it consistently clean. But trying to keep track of weather it's not fouled, dirty enough or too dirty seems difficult.
Am I over thinking this?
My question comes from the fact that many here don't clean their rifles very often - "only after the groups start opening up" ... "then it takes (insert number) rounds to foul, and it shoots well again".
I was following this, simply because I was trying to get consistancy with factory rounds.
Then I started hand loading and I read that as the barrel heats up it changes POI. And that people wait (insert number) of minutes between OCW/Ladder groups.
All this is starting to make me feel that I can't count on my rounds hitting were I want unless - the barrel is just so dirty and just so warm.
I think I am more interested in knowing exactly were the round will go if I just pull it out of the case and fire. I can always keep it consistently clean. But trying to keep track of weather it's not fouled, dirty enough or too dirty seems difficult.
Am I over thinking this?
Re: Techniques for determining Clean/Cold bore shot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My question comes from the fact that many here don't clean their rifles very often - "only after the groups start opening up" ... "then it takes (insert number) rounds to foul, and it shoots well again".
I was following this, simply because I was trying to get consistancy with factory rounds.
Then I started hand loading and I read that as the barrel heats up it changes POI. And that people wait (insert number) of minutes between OCW/Ladder groups.
All this is starting to make me feel that I can't count on my rounds hitting were I want unless - the barrel is just so dirty and just so warm.
I think I am more interested in knowing exactly were the round will go if I just pull it out of the case and fire. I can always keep it consistently clean. But trying to keep track of weather it's not fouled, dirty enough or too dirty seems difficult.
Am I over thinking this?
</div></div>
Yes. To quote another, "the bullet goes where the barrel is pointing".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My question comes from the fact that many here don't clean their rifles very often - "only after the groups start opening up" ... "then it takes (insert number) rounds to foul, and it shoots well again".
I was following this, simply because I was trying to get consistancy with factory rounds.
Then I started hand loading and I read that as the barrel heats up it changes POI. And that people wait (insert number) of minutes between OCW/Ladder groups.
All this is starting to make me feel that I can't count on my rounds hitting were I want unless - the barrel is just so dirty and just so warm.
I think I am more interested in knowing exactly were the round will go if I just pull it out of the case and fire. I can always keep it consistently clean. But trying to keep track of weather it's not fouled, dirty enough or too dirty seems difficult.
Am I over thinking this?
</div></div>
Yes. To quote another, "the bullet goes where the barrel is pointing".
Re: Techniques for determining Clean/Cold bore shot
Answer to your question is "Yes". During your work up your load, I ususally recommend that you shoot slowly in between groups to allow the barrel to cool down a bit. That way you can get an accurate representation of the groupings for the corresponding powder charges. Once I have selected one or perhaps two groups, then I come back another day and see if I can still replicate that. If it is reproducible, then I test it out to 300, 500, and then 1000. After that, I shoot the shit of out it to learn what that round can do. Now, that's the reloading/grouping aspect.
Comes the gun and the monkey behind the trigger. Depending on the rifle that you have, some take a foul bore to group better, and others will shoot straight out of the bag, whether its's clean or dirty. The variable for that is way too much to predict. Only way to know for sure is to shoot it under various conditions and see what you get. Meaning, get your load the way you want, then shoot it with dirty bore and clean bore to see if there is a shift. One of the things that I like to do when I get the range is to get my cold bore (ususally dirty/clean bore) shot at 100 yards at a 1" target. I then record the MET and ENV data for that shot and put it in my data log.
When I do that, I usually and consistenly hit that shot. If I don't then more often than not, it's my fault, whether I pulled the trigger, or did some dumb shit.
Even if you have a rifle that requires a foul bore to shoot well, at least, you can experiment to see how many shots it takes to get on the target and how far from the target is your first shot, in the even that you have to take a shot on a clean barrel. Hope that answer your question.
Answer to your question is "Yes". During your work up your load, I ususally recommend that you shoot slowly in between groups to allow the barrel to cool down a bit. That way you can get an accurate representation of the groupings for the corresponding powder charges. Once I have selected one or perhaps two groups, then I come back another day and see if I can still replicate that. If it is reproducible, then I test it out to 300, 500, and then 1000. After that, I shoot the shit of out it to learn what that round can do. Now, that's the reloading/grouping aspect.
Comes the gun and the monkey behind the trigger. Depending on the rifle that you have, some take a foul bore to group better, and others will shoot straight out of the bag, whether its's clean or dirty. The variable for that is way too much to predict. Only way to know for sure is to shoot it under various conditions and see what you get. Meaning, get your load the way you want, then shoot it with dirty bore and clean bore to see if there is a shift. One of the things that I like to do when I get the range is to get my cold bore (ususally dirty/clean bore) shot at 100 yards at a 1" target. I then record the MET and ENV data for that shot and put it in my data log.
When I do that, I usually and consistenly hit that shot. If I don't then more often than not, it's my fault, whether I pulled the trigger, or did some dumb shit.
Even if you have a rifle that requires a foul bore to shoot well, at least, you can experiment to see how many shots it takes to get on the target and how far from the target is your first shot, in the even that you have to take a shot on a clean barrel. Hope that answer your question.
Re: Techniques for determining Clean/Cold bore shot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Answer to your question is "Yes". During your work up your load, I ususally recommend that you shoot slowly in between groups to allow the barrel to cool down a bit. That way you can get an accurate representation of the groupings for the corresponding powder charges. Once I have selected one or perhaps two groups, then I come back another day and see if I can still replicate that. If it is reproducible, then I test it out to 300, 500, and then 1000. After that, I shoot the shit of out it to learn what that round can do. Now, that's the reloading/grouping aspect.
Comes the gun and the monkey behind the trigger. Depending on the rifle that you have, some take a foul bore to group better, and others will shoot straight out of the bag, whether its's clean or dirty. The variable for that is way too much to predict. Only way to know for sure is to shoot it under various conditions and see what you get. Meaning, get your load the way you want, then shoot it with dirty bore and clean bore to see if there is a shift. One of the things that I like to do when I get the range is to get my cold bore (ususally dirty/clean bore) shot at 100 yards at a 1" target. I then record the MET and ENV data for that shot and put it in my data log.
When I do that, I usually and consistenly hit that shot. If I don't then more often than not, it's my fault, whether I pulled the trigger, or did some dumb shit.
Even if you have a rifle that requires a foul bore to shoot well, at least, you can experiment to see how many shots it takes to get on the target and how far from the target is your first shot, in the even that you have to take a shot on a clean barrel. Hope that answer your question. </div></div>
Yes, thanks.
I think what I will do after I feel I have my load for this rifle is then over the course of 3-5 different days at the range, map all the clean/cold bore shots. And see if the fist shots all land in the same spot. Then maybe I could zero to that.
It will take time but I can't think of any other way to make sure that the first shot always goes exactly where I want it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Answer to your question is "Yes". During your work up your load, I ususally recommend that you shoot slowly in between groups to allow the barrel to cool down a bit. That way you can get an accurate representation of the groupings for the corresponding powder charges. Once I have selected one or perhaps two groups, then I come back another day and see if I can still replicate that. If it is reproducible, then I test it out to 300, 500, and then 1000. After that, I shoot the shit of out it to learn what that round can do. Now, that's the reloading/grouping aspect.
Comes the gun and the monkey behind the trigger. Depending on the rifle that you have, some take a foul bore to group better, and others will shoot straight out of the bag, whether its's clean or dirty. The variable for that is way too much to predict. Only way to know for sure is to shoot it under various conditions and see what you get. Meaning, get your load the way you want, then shoot it with dirty bore and clean bore to see if there is a shift. One of the things that I like to do when I get the range is to get my cold bore (ususally dirty/clean bore) shot at 100 yards at a 1" target. I then record the MET and ENV data for that shot and put it in my data log.
When I do that, I usually and consistenly hit that shot. If I don't then more often than not, it's my fault, whether I pulled the trigger, or did some dumb shit.
Even if you have a rifle that requires a foul bore to shoot well, at least, you can experiment to see how many shots it takes to get on the target and how far from the target is your first shot, in the even that you have to take a shot on a clean barrel. Hope that answer your question. </div></div>
Yes, thanks.
I think what I will do after I feel I have my load for this rifle is then over the course of 3-5 different days at the range, map all the clean/cold bore shots. And see if the fist shots all land in the same spot. Then maybe I could zero to that.
It will take time but I can't think of any other way to make sure that the first shot always goes exactly where I want it.
Re: Techniques for determining Clean/Cold bore shot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Answer to your question is "Yes". During your work up your load, I ususally recommend that you shoot slowly in between groups to allow the barrel to cool down a bit. That way you can get an accurate representation of the groupings for the corresponding powder charges. Once I have selected one or perhaps two groups, then I come back another day and see if I can still replicate that. If it is reproducible, then I test it out to 300, 500, and then 1000. After that, I shoot the shit of out it to learn what that round can do. Now, that's the reloading/grouping aspect.
Comes the gun and the monkey behind the trigger. Depending on the rifle that you have, some take a foul bore to group better, and others will shoot straight out of the bag, whether its's clean or dirty. The variable for that is way too much to predict. Only way to know for sure is to shoot it under various conditions and see what you get. Meaning, get your load the way you want, then shoot it with dirty bore and clean bore to see if there is a shift. One of the things that I like to do when I get the range is to get my cold bore (ususally dirty/clean bore) shot at 100 yards at a 1" target. I then record the MET and ENV data for that shot and put it in my data log.
When I do that, I usually and consistenly hit that shot. If I don't then more often than not, it's my fault, whether I pulled the trigger, or did some dumb shit.
Even if you have a rifle that requires a foul bore to shoot well, at least, you can experiment to see how many shots it takes to get on the target and how far from the target is your first shot, in the even that you have to take a shot on a clean barrel. Hope that answer your question. </div></div>
Yes, thanks.
I think what I will do after I feel I have my load for this rifle is then over the course of 3-5 different days at the range, map all the clean/cold bore shots. And see if the fist shots all land in the same spot. Then maybe I could zero to that.
It will take time but I can't think of any other way to make sure that the first shot always goes exactly where I want it.
</div></div>
I can. Dry fire ten times before you take that first shot. It will land where you're aiming.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Answer to your question is "Yes". During your work up your load, I ususally recommend that you shoot slowly in between groups to allow the barrel to cool down a bit. That way you can get an accurate representation of the groupings for the corresponding powder charges. Once I have selected one or perhaps two groups, then I come back another day and see if I can still replicate that. If it is reproducible, then I test it out to 300, 500, and then 1000. After that, I shoot the shit of out it to learn what that round can do. Now, that's the reloading/grouping aspect.
Comes the gun and the monkey behind the trigger. Depending on the rifle that you have, some take a foul bore to group better, and others will shoot straight out of the bag, whether its's clean or dirty. The variable for that is way too much to predict. Only way to know for sure is to shoot it under various conditions and see what you get. Meaning, get your load the way you want, then shoot it with dirty bore and clean bore to see if there is a shift. One of the things that I like to do when I get the range is to get my cold bore (ususally dirty/clean bore) shot at 100 yards at a 1" target. I then record the MET and ENV data for that shot and put it in my data log.
When I do that, I usually and consistenly hit that shot. If I don't then more often than not, it's my fault, whether I pulled the trigger, or did some dumb shit.
Even if you have a rifle that requires a foul bore to shoot well, at least, you can experiment to see how many shots it takes to get on the target and how far from the target is your first shot, in the even that you have to take a shot on a clean barrel. Hope that answer your question. </div></div>
Yes, thanks.
I think what I will do after I feel I have my load for this rifle is then over the course of 3-5 different days at the range, map all the clean/cold bore shots. And see if the fist shots all land in the same spot. Then maybe I could zero to that.
It will take time but I can't think of any other way to make sure that the first shot always goes exactly where I want it.
</div></div>
I can. Dry fire ten times before you take that first shot. It will land where you're aiming.
