Whats yalls thought on this new offering the .17 win super mag. I cant wait.
- Thread starter tarzan2244
- Start date
Re: The new 17 WSM
Hopefully it will be just as accurate as the .17HMR with a better effective range/terminal ballistics.
Hopefully it will be just as accurate as the .17HMR with a better effective range/terminal ballistics.
Re: The new 17 WSM
PHFfffffffffffff.. new Flavor\problem of the Month .
Not a Rimfire & Not a Centerfire . It's a freak & new animal that is just going to sit all by itself, lonesome in your safe. It not a standard rimfire boltface. it's longer, fatter & need larger stronger Bolt than standard rimfire . Screw that shit . there is a dozen better choises for a varmint round that is already plentiful out there .
No .17wsm for me . Done the 17hmr rimfire for a few years also . And ( IMHO ) when I drop the Faithful .22 rimfire for more Pop on the trigger . I grab my .223/556 or my 30-221|BLK . Both Cals. in Bolt & Semi .
.
PHFfffffffffffff.. new Flavor\problem of the Month .
Not a Rimfire & Not a Centerfire . It's a freak & new animal that is just going to sit all by itself, lonesome in your safe. It not a standard rimfire boltface. it's longer, fatter & need larger stronger Bolt than standard rimfire . Screw that shit . there is a dozen better choises for a varmint round that is already plentiful out there .
No .17wsm for me . Done the 17hmr rimfire for a few years also . And ( IMHO ) when I drop the Faithful .22 rimfire for more Pop on the trigger . I grab my .223/556 or my 30-221|BLK . Both Cals. in Bolt & Semi .
.
Re: The new 17 WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PHFfffffffffffff.. new Flavor\problem of the Month .
Not a Rimfire & Not a Centerfire . It's a freak & new animal that is just going to sit all by itself, lonesome in your safe. It not a standard rimfire boltface. it's longer, fatter & need larger stronger Bolt than standard rimfire . Screw that shit . there is a dozen better choises for a varmint round that is already plentiful out there .
No .17wsm for me . Done the 17hmr rimfire for a few years also . And ( IMHO ) when I drop the Faithful .22 rimfire for more Pop on the trigger . I grab my .223/556 or my 30-221|BLK . Both Cals. in Bolt & Semi .
. </div></div>
This. People are always trying to find solutions for problems that don't exist. That, or everyone is trying to make a quick buck with a game changer. Happened with the WSSM, 6.8SPC II etc. Another pointless round IMHO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PHFfffffffffffff.. new Flavor\problem of the Month .
Not a Rimfire & Not a Centerfire . It's a freak & new animal that is just going to sit all by itself, lonesome in your safe. It not a standard rimfire boltface. it's longer, fatter & need larger stronger Bolt than standard rimfire . Screw that shit . there is a dozen better choises for a varmint round that is already plentiful out there .
No .17wsm for me . Done the 17hmr rimfire for a few years also . And ( IMHO ) when I drop the Faithful .22 rimfire for more Pop on the trigger . I grab my .223/556 or my 30-221|BLK . Both Cals. in Bolt & Semi .
. </div></div>
This. People are always trying to find solutions for problems that don't exist. That, or everyone is trying to make a quick buck with a game changer. Happened with the WSSM, 6.8SPC II etc. Another pointless round IMHO.
Re: The new 17 WSM
Still not big enough for coyotes?
I guess you can shoot squirrels better? But with more noise? And more expensive? And as long as I'm just shooting squirrels and not worrying about noise it would be hard to beat the .204!
On the good side it goes bang when you pull the trigger and puts the smack on things, so I gotta like that.
I doubt I will have a need for something between a 17 hmr and a 22 K Hornet and if I did the 17 Hornady Hornet might look a little more interesting to me. I still wouldn't take it coyote hunting though.
Am I missing something?
Still not big enough for coyotes?
I guess you can shoot squirrels better? But with more noise? And more expensive? And as long as I'm just shooting squirrels and not worrying about noise it would be hard to beat the .204!
On the good side it goes bang when you pull the trigger and puts the smack on things, so I gotta like that.
I doubt I will have a need for something between a 17 hmr and a 22 K Hornet and if I did the 17 Hornady Hornet might look a little more interesting to me. I still wouldn't take it coyote hunting though.
Am I missing something?
Re: The new 17 WSM
I did shoot 1 coyote dead with the .17hmr rimfire. killed a few with .22 sub-Vel. also .
17WSM It's big enough for coyote for the head shot or if you double lung them & you chase them down to find them dead a 1/4 mile away in the brush somewhere .
The .17wsm will be much loader than a 22mag or 17hmr rimfire. & you will need ear protection for sure. I personally don't wear for .22 or the 17hmr when out hunting . I thnk the 17wsm will be quite the POP for a Rimfire .
It would be fun to shoot with just grab & go ammo off the shelf like an expensive-$ rimfire .17HMR .
(personally) I don't see them making this rimfire ammo over @ CCI much cheaper than yoo reloading .223 or any other centerfire varmint like a BEE or .204 or swift or Rem.222 etc. .
(imho) ONLY reason the 17hmr rimfire has hung on this long is that there is a given a competition of performance choice to the consumer between it & the .22Mag. because they both start the same in parent cartridge .
Even though it is an Odd Duck & I do think they will sell a mess of them @ first but the novelty will soon wear off .
I did shoot 1 coyote dead with the .17hmr rimfire. killed a few with .22 sub-Vel. also .
17WSM It's big enough for coyote for the head shot or if you double lung them & you chase them down to find them dead a 1/4 mile away in the brush somewhere .
The .17wsm will be much loader than a 22mag or 17hmr rimfire. & you will need ear protection for sure. I personally don't wear for .22 or the 17hmr when out hunting . I thnk the 17wsm will be quite the POP for a Rimfire .
It would be fun to shoot with just grab & go ammo off the shelf like an expensive-$ rimfire .17HMR .
(personally) I don't see them making this rimfire ammo over @ CCI much cheaper than yoo reloading .223 or any other centerfire varmint like a BEE or .204 or swift or Rem.222 etc. .
(imho) ONLY reason the 17hmr rimfire has hung on this long is that there is a given a competition of performance choice to the consumer between it & the .22Mag. because they both start the same in parent cartridge .
Even though it is an Odd Duck & I do think they will sell a mess of them @ first but the novelty will soon wear off .
Re: The new 17 WSM
for fans of rimfire though, something new that can run with smaller cal. centerfires. i guess it's really going to come down to price per box, .17 wsm per 50 (if offered that way) vs. the usual 20 rnds per box of .17 hornet, .204, .223, etc.
personally, i'd rather see a 5mm resurgence with new rifle offerings.
but the 17wsm can possibly open the door to more interesting rimfire stuff.
until someone gets it their hands and does a practical unbiased trial that's not sponsored by winchester or savage, everything is speculation now.
for fans of rimfire though, something new that can run with smaller cal. centerfires. i guess it's really going to come down to price per box, .17 wsm per 50 (if offered that way) vs. the usual 20 rnds per box of .17 hornet, .204, .223, etc.
personally, i'd rather see a 5mm resurgence with new rifle offerings.
but the 17wsm can possibly open the door to more interesting rimfire stuff.
until someone gets it their hands and does a practical unbiased trial that's not sponsored by winchester or savage, everything is speculation now.
Re: The new 17 WSM
I guess for us paper punchers We want to see what it will do at 250-300 yards, I guess for a perimiter gun it would be good for hit&run and you could carry alot of ammo!
I guess for us paper punchers We want to see what it will do at 250-300 yards, I guess for a perimiter gun it would be good for hit&run and you could carry alot of ammo!
Re: The new 17 WSM
I can't help but wonder what this case necked up to 22 will do.
I can't help but wonder what this case necked up to 22 will do.
Re: The new 17 WSM
I'm still getting one!
I'm still getting one!
Re: The new 17 WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did shoot 1 coyote dead with the .17hmr rimfire. killed a few with .22 sub-Vel. also .
17WSM It's big enough for coyote for the head shot or if you double lung them & you chase them down to find them dead a 1/4 mile away in the brush somewhere .
</div></div>
Right. Still not big enough for a coyote.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did shoot 1 coyote dead with the .17hmr rimfire. killed a few with .22 sub-Vel. also .
17WSM It's big enough for coyote for the head shot or if you double lung them & you chase them down to find them dead a 1/4 mile away in the brush somewhere .
</div></div>
Right. Still not big enough for a coyote.
Re: The new 17 WSM
I can't see paying more for rimfire ammo than my hand loads for a .223, sounds like fun though.
I can't see paying more for rimfire ammo than my hand loads for a .223, sounds like fun though.
Re: The new 17 WSM
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/124319/...point-box-of-50
That's pretty damn cheap. I'm not understanding all the hate on this thing. It is smack down in between the 17hmr and 17 hornet and the ammo is cheap as hell. Sounds like a fun little round for jackrabbit hunting to me.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/124319/...point-box-of-50
That's pretty damn cheap. I'm not understanding all the hate on this thing. It is smack down in between the 17hmr and 17 hornet and the ammo is cheap as hell. Sounds like a fun little round for jackrabbit hunting to me.
Re: The new 17 WSM
It's for people stuck with rimfire hunting laws. If they want to go hunt, they have to bring an HMR, or WMR, and the WSM is a better choice than those two.
It's for people stuck with rimfire hunting laws. If they want to go hunt, they have to bring an HMR, or WMR, and the WSM is a better choice than those two.
Re: The new 17 WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did shoot 1 coyote dead with the .17hmr rimfire. killed a few with .22 sub-Vel. also .
17WSM It's big enough for coyote for the head shot or if you double lung them & you chase them down to find them dead a 1/4 mile away in the brush somewhere .
</div></div>
Right. Still not big enough for a coyote.
</div></div>
It's pretty obvious when one has not a fucking clue....
As a huge Savage and .17hmr fan, I'm eager to own one of the WSM's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did shoot 1 coyote dead with the .17hmr rimfire. killed a few with .22 sub-Vel. also .
17WSM It's big enough for coyote for the head shot or if you double lung them & you chase them down to find them dead a 1/4 mile away in the brush somewhere .
</div></div>
Right. Still not big enough for a coyote.
</div></div>
It's pretty obvious when one has not a fucking clue....
As a huge Savage and .17hmr fan, I'm eager to own one of the WSM's.
Re: The new 17 WSM
I will wait for a while on this one. I am sure there will be a few glitches at the start. Then I will get one once they ironed out any problems....
I will wait for a while on this one. I am sure there will be a few glitches at the start. Then I will get one once they ironed out any problems....
Re: The new 17 WSM
It's an improvement for rimfires. But, still not as much as the .17 Hornet or .17 Fireball. But, it costs just as much.
It's an improvement for rimfires. But, still not as much as the .17 Hornet or .17 Fireball. But, it costs just as much.
Re: The new 17 WSM
Hey I have killed a lot of coyotes in my life and that comment of Not having a clue it pretty clueless on your part .I am not against killing Coyotes with rimfire & I have killed many with a .22lr .
The reality is that all you have is a 20 grn. weight projectile in a .17 diameter & that is an anemic choice . But if that is all you are limited too. Or all the ballistic ambition for hitting coyotes with . than good luck to you .
.
Hey I have killed a lot of coyotes in my life and that comment of Not having a clue it pretty clueless on your part .I am not against killing Coyotes with rimfire & I have killed many with a .22lr .
The reality is that all you have is a 20 grn. weight projectile in a .17 diameter & that is an anemic choice . But if that is all you are limited too. Or all the ballistic ambition for hitting coyotes with . than good luck to you .
.
Re: The new 17 WSM
If you had a clue, you'd be well aware that .17hmr is plenty sufficient for killing a coyote. I've killed them with anything from .22lr to .30-06. A .17 caliber projectile kills them just as well as anything else. Whether it be a CNS shot or vitals shot, they don't do much more than roll after contact.
That comment was mostly directed toward Jefferson. Your comment about chasing a double lung shot 1/4 mile makes me quite suspicious though.
If you had a clue, you'd be well aware that .17hmr is plenty sufficient for killing a coyote. I've killed them with anything from .22lr to .30-06. A .17 caliber projectile kills them just as well as anything else. Whether it be a CNS shot or vitals shot, they don't do much more than roll after contact.
That comment was mostly directed toward Jefferson. Your comment about chasing a double lung shot 1/4 mile makes me quite suspicious though.
Re: The new 17 WSM
There is certainly an argument to be made for the limited range of a 20gr projectile. That is not the argument I'm making though.
There is certainly an argument to be made for the limited range of a 20gr projectile. That is not the argument I'm making though.
Re: The new 17 WSM
if you make it, they will buy it.....
if you make it, they will buy it.....
Re: The new 17 WSM
No
No
Re: The new 17 WSM
Have owned most all .17's and the 2 I have retained are the Fireball and the M2. Minimal pelt damage was what turned me on to them for closer range brushy calling . Always excited to hear about a new 17, and will surely try the new WIN. number.
Have owned most all .17's and the 2 I have retained are the Fireball and the M2. Minimal pelt damage was what turned me on to them for closer range brushy calling . Always excited to hear about a new 17, and will surely try the new WIN. number.
Re: The new 17 WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well don't sit there like a fat girl with a big dick in her mouth .
Spit it out . What are you suspicious of ???
.</div></div>
See my first post...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well don't sit there like a fat girl with a big dick in her mouth .
Spit it out . What are you suspicious of ???
.</div></div>
See my first post...
Re: The new 17 WSM
I will go as far to say the.17wsm will be an improvement of @ least 100 ft/lbs energy @ impact @ 100 Yrd . over the 17hmr .
You can make it your go-to choice of Coyote rifles but I will pass .
The double-lung comment was sarcasm . As I have punched both lungs of Coyotes with 308 win. @ under 300 yrds. Range & seen them burst a sprint of @ least 40 yard before dropping over . Chest cavity was total jello .
.
I will go as far to say the.17wsm will be an improvement of @ least 100 ft/lbs energy @ impact @ 100 Yrd . over the 17hmr .
You can make it your go-to choice of Coyote rifles but I will pass .
The double-lung comment was sarcasm . As I have punched both lungs of Coyotes with 308 win. @ under 300 yrds. Range & seen them burst a sprint of @ least 40 yard before dropping over . Chest cavity was total jello .
.
Re: The new 17 WSM
No one is claiming it to be the go to coyote round.
No one is claiming it to be the go to coyote round.
Re: The new 17 WSM
BUT your 1st comment (claim) of ... " If you had a clue, you'd be well aware that .17hmr is plenty sufficient for killing a coyote ".
I see . You are now admitting that a .17 Rimfire is a little anemic & Not a good choice ?
.
BUT your 1st comment (claim) of ... " If you had a clue, you'd be well aware that .17hmr is plenty sufficient for killing a coyote ".
I see . You are now admitting that a .17 Rimfire is a little anemic & Not a good choice ?
.
Re: The new 17 WSM
I saw somewhere on TV that Winchester will also be coming out with a 25 gr projo at 2600 fps.
Do you guys need a ruler for this contest?
I saw somewhere on TV that Winchester will also be coming out with a 25 gr projo at 2600 fps.
Do you guys need a ruler for this contest?
Re: The new 17 WSM
Why all the bitching? Seriously guys... you're acting like a bunch of women...
It's a new round. Love it or hate it, at least give it a try first.
I use my 17HMR's for small game hunting, but if I were going after crows, ground hogs or other larger animals I'd be all over the 17 WSM.
It does not appear to be a round for me, however I'll still support it and maybe one day I can find a use for it but til then I'm not going to bash it / anyone who buys one...
I was around on various forums when the 17HMR first came out and the 22 LR/MAG crowd scoffed at it. Now it's a commonly-accepted round.
260 shooter- "Do you guys need a ruler for this contest?"
You're exactly right. Sounds like a pissing match in the making for no reason...
Why all the bitching? Seriously guys... you're acting like a bunch of women...
It's a new round. Love it or hate it, at least give it a try first.
I use my 17HMR's for small game hunting, but if I were going after crows, ground hogs or other larger animals I'd be all over the 17 WSM.
It does not appear to be a round for me, however I'll still support it and maybe one day I can find a use for it but til then I'm not going to bash it / anyone who buys one...
I was around on various forums when the 17HMR first came out and the 22 LR/MAG crowd scoffed at it. Now it's a commonly-accepted round.
260 shooter- "Do you guys need a ruler for this contest?"
You're exactly right. Sounds like a pissing match in the making for no reason...
Re: The new 17 WSM
Remember the 5mm Rem magnum rimfire? Great round but limited rifles and ammo. The more ammo companies and firearm mfrs that jump on the bandwagon seems to favor success, but only time can tell.
Remember the 5mm Rem magnum rimfire? Great round but limited rifles and ammo. The more ammo companies and firearm mfrs that jump on the bandwagon seems to favor success, but only time can tell.
Re: The new 17 WSM
Weellll...
One of you killed a coyote <span style="text-decoration: underline">all the way dead</span> with a .17 hmr.
The other says that a .17 caliber projectile (I think you meant rimfire?) kills them just as well as <span style="text-decoration: underline">anything</span> else.
So I guess that settles it.
Good thing we have you two here!
I saw a guy in a hoodie kill a rabbit with an airsoft in a field nearby. He somehow maimed it with the first couple shots enough to pump another 20+ into it to kill it while standing directly over it.
Maybe you're related?
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have one of these new rimfires but I like pretty much all rifles.
Weellll...
One of you killed a coyote <span style="text-decoration: underline">all the way dead</span> with a .17 hmr.
The other says that a .17 caliber projectile (I think you meant rimfire?) kills them just as well as <span style="text-decoration: underline">anything</span> else.
So I guess that settles it.
Good thing we have you two here!
I saw a guy in a hoodie kill a rabbit with an airsoft in a field nearby. He somehow maimed it with the first couple shots enough to pump another 20+ into it to kill it while standing directly over it.
Maybe you're related?
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have one of these new rimfires but I like pretty much all rifles.
Re: The new 17 WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">f
personally, i'd rather see a 5mm resurgence with new rifle offerings.
</div></div>
Exactly. in Tn, at times of the year we can only hunt coyotes with RF's.
Hard to bring enough gun...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">f
personally, i'd rather see a 5mm resurgence with new rifle offerings.
</div></div>
Exactly. in Tn, at times of the year we can only hunt coyotes with RF's.
Hard to bring enough gun...
Re: The new 17 WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BUT your 1st comment (claim) of ... " If you had a clue, you'd be well aware that .17hmr is plenty sufficient for killing a coyote ".
I see . You are now admitting that a .17 Rimfire is a little anemic & Not a good choice ?
.</div></div>
You are a fucking moron. In no way have I said that .17 is not a good choice. It is limited by range just like every other fucking cartridge on the planet. If you think it will not kill the shit out of a coyote in its effective range, then you are indeed clueless. Please tell us about your experiences in killing coyotes with a .17 cartridge. I bet it is a short story.... I've personally killed half a dozen in the past 6 months with a .17hmr. You know how many of them ran 40yds to 1/4mile? None. You know how many ran 5 yds? None. My knowledge of killing shit is based on experience. When you tell me that a .17 caliber projectile will not kill a coyote, I'm going to call you a fucking dumbass because I do it on a regular basis.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BUT your 1st comment (claim) of ... " If you had a clue, you'd be well aware that .17hmr is plenty sufficient for killing a coyote ".
I see . You are now admitting that a .17 Rimfire is a little anemic & Not a good choice ?
.</div></div>
You are a fucking moron. In no way have I said that .17 is not a good choice. It is limited by range just like every other fucking cartridge on the planet. If you think it will not kill the shit out of a coyote in its effective range, then you are indeed clueless. Please tell us about your experiences in killing coyotes with a .17 cartridge. I bet it is a short story.... I've personally killed half a dozen in the past 6 months with a .17hmr. You know how many of them ran 40yds to 1/4mile? None. You know how many ran 5 yds? None. My knowledge of killing shit is based on experience. When you tell me that a .17 caliber projectile will not kill a coyote, I'm going to call you a fucking dumbass because I do it on a regular basis.
Re: The new 17 WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Weellll...
One of you killed a coyote <span style="text-decoration: underline">all the way dead</span> with a .17 hmr.
The other says that a .17 caliber projectile (I think you meant rimfire?) kills them just as well as <span style="text-decoration: underline">anything</span> else.
So I guess that settles it.
Good thing we have you two here!
I saw a guy in a hoodie kill a rabbit with an airsoft in a field nearby. He somehow maimed it with the first couple shots enough to pump another 20+ into it to kill it while standing directly over it.
Maybe you're related?
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have one of these new rimfires but I like pretty much all rifles.</div></div>
I beg you to speak of your travels too. The fact that you think the term projectile has anything to do with an ignition source speaks volumes....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Weellll...
One of you killed a coyote <span style="text-decoration: underline">all the way dead</span> with a .17 hmr.
The other says that a .17 caliber projectile (I think you meant rimfire?) kills them just as well as <span style="text-decoration: underline">anything</span> else.
So I guess that settles it.
Good thing we have you two here!
I saw a guy in a hoodie kill a rabbit with an airsoft in a field nearby. He somehow maimed it with the first couple shots enough to pump another 20+ into it to kill it while standing directly over it.
Maybe you're related?
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have one of these new rimfires but I like pretty much all rifles.</div></div>
I beg you to speak of your travels too. The fact that you think the term projectile has anything to do with an ignition source speaks volumes....
Re: The new 17 WSM
back story....(squiggly line squiggly line)....
back in the day when i had time i used to take coyotes with the .22 mag - but that was in the spring, summer, fall when they had light coats, close range 75 yards or less.
shot placement obviously was the key, and if it wasn't standing still, wasn't worth spooking / educating it with a poke and hope shot. some yotes were recovered, others not.
after the 17hmr or 22 mag debate on coyotes and hogs, there are alot of guys taking yotes and hogs with both the 17hmr and 22mag regularly.
i swore by the added weight and various bullet designs of the .22mag that it was the better round for penetration, energy, etc. and have taken a few coyotes back in the day.
back to the present (squiggly line, squiggly line)...
few weeks ago whacked a coyote (my first "winter pelted" coyote) through the gut with .308 110 vmax. the winter pelt was so thick it absorbed the blood for a good 40 yards, and only then a few trickles, before i found it lying another 15 yards away, in thick cover, on the side of a creek bank. if it weren't for some snow on the ground, i probably wouldn't be able to pick up the blood trail or the light treading it made through the leaves.
though less than an optimum shot, a 30 cal hole through the gut didn't exactly produce the kind of bloodtrail you would think with the winter pelt. the pelt absorbed a great deal of the coyote juice, i can't imagine a .22 mag or .17hmr or this new round producing any better unless the shot placement is right on and you drop it were it stands.
now with more demands on my time and energy, those reuccuring careful patient shots with a .22 mag are not as frequent and for a more of a reality check of only being able to get out every now and then, i wouldn't take the .22 mag out nowadays for a specific coyote hunt, as there are better options for a dedicated yote getter.
after the latest experience i wouldn't carry anything less than .223 with 55+ grain, and <span style="font-weight: bold">i retract any of my .22mag or .17hmr is good enough for dedicated carrying rifle for yote, AT LEAST IN WINTER on larger easterns.</span>
point is, i guess, that unless it's all you have, DEDICATING a .22mag, lr, or 17 hmr, or perhaps even this wsm for coyotes is not the best option, especially for winter coated dogs, especially if it's a hurry up shot, in field conditions, longer than 75 yards.
granted if out for some other game, and the target of oppurtunity arises, yeah i'd take the shot with a .22 mag, 17 hmr, etc. if the conditions were right. but dedicating it with the intent of specifically going for coyotes will most likely end in low percentage harvests and heartache for the amount of effort put in to get one or a few coyotes on a coyote intended hunt.
if rimfires are the only thing allowed in some areas well then there is no option.
the WSM round should be one heck of a groundhog / prairie dog / ground squirrel getter though.
personally as mention a few posts ago, if getting a new rimfire on the market, i would have preferred the resurgence of 5mm or something that has more girth than .17 cal. a bigger hole, no matter how fast, is usually better. but who knows, maybe the combination of the FPS and 25 grains will be the shit.
IMO this new cartridge will perhaps going to open the door to new offerings in the rimfire world, and perhaps have manufacturers relook at what can be done with modern powders, bullet design, and manufacturing processes to fill the niches and perhaps achieve a round that has the girth and speed to satisfy old schoolers such as myself on penetration vs. trajectory tradeoffs.
so yeah the new WSM should be exciting to anyone that's a shooting enthusiast whether punching paper, hunting, or both.
it's the next step in evolution, and has it's place.
cost vs. performance is probably going to be the deciding factor of it's success or demise. though midway has a price on a box of it, no one really knows the extent of supply / demand to justify a higher or lower price.
even if at $20.00 a box of 50 seems reasonable for a groundhog slayer, if it lives up to the claims, for someone that doesn't reload or can afford the same 50 rounds of .223 critter shelf ammo.
but making assumptions and ruffleing each others feathers and leaving a bad taste in each others mouths on a cartridge that no one has in their hands yet is like fighting over if the 2016 silverado is better than the 2016 F150.
until it's in our hands with actual data, assumptions are just that, and perhaps all of my jibber jabber will be bunk too.
back story....(squiggly line squiggly line)....
back in the day when i had time i used to take coyotes with the .22 mag - but that was in the spring, summer, fall when they had light coats, close range 75 yards or less.
shot placement obviously was the key, and if it wasn't standing still, wasn't worth spooking / educating it with a poke and hope shot. some yotes were recovered, others not.
after the 17hmr or 22 mag debate on coyotes and hogs, there are alot of guys taking yotes and hogs with both the 17hmr and 22mag regularly.
i swore by the added weight and various bullet designs of the .22mag that it was the better round for penetration, energy, etc. and have taken a few coyotes back in the day.
back to the present (squiggly line, squiggly line)...
few weeks ago whacked a coyote (my first "winter pelted" coyote) through the gut with .308 110 vmax. the winter pelt was so thick it absorbed the blood for a good 40 yards, and only then a few trickles, before i found it lying another 15 yards away, in thick cover, on the side of a creek bank. if it weren't for some snow on the ground, i probably wouldn't be able to pick up the blood trail or the light treading it made through the leaves.
though less than an optimum shot, a 30 cal hole through the gut didn't exactly produce the kind of bloodtrail you would think with the winter pelt. the pelt absorbed a great deal of the coyote juice, i can't imagine a .22 mag or .17hmr or this new round producing any better unless the shot placement is right on and you drop it were it stands.
now with more demands on my time and energy, those reuccuring careful patient shots with a .22 mag are not as frequent and for a more of a reality check of only being able to get out every now and then, i wouldn't take the .22 mag out nowadays for a specific coyote hunt, as there are better options for a dedicated yote getter.
after the latest experience i wouldn't carry anything less than .223 with 55+ grain, and <span style="font-weight: bold">i retract any of my .22mag or .17hmr is good enough for dedicated carrying rifle for yote, AT LEAST IN WINTER on larger easterns.</span>
point is, i guess, that unless it's all you have, DEDICATING a .22mag, lr, or 17 hmr, or perhaps even this wsm for coyotes is not the best option, especially for winter coated dogs, especially if it's a hurry up shot, in field conditions, longer than 75 yards.
granted if out for some other game, and the target of oppurtunity arises, yeah i'd take the shot with a .22 mag, 17 hmr, etc. if the conditions were right. but dedicating it with the intent of specifically going for coyotes will most likely end in low percentage harvests and heartache for the amount of effort put in to get one or a few coyotes on a coyote intended hunt.
if rimfires are the only thing allowed in some areas well then there is no option.
the WSM round should be one heck of a groundhog / prairie dog / ground squirrel getter though.
personally as mention a few posts ago, if getting a new rimfire on the market, i would have preferred the resurgence of 5mm or something that has more girth than .17 cal. a bigger hole, no matter how fast, is usually better. but who knows, maybe the combination of the FPS and 25 grains will be the shit.
IMO this new cartridge will perhaps going to open the door to new offerings in the rimfire world, and perhaps have manufacturers relook at what can be done with modern powders, bullet design, and manufacturing processes to fill the niches and perhaps achieve a round that has the girth and speed to satisfy old schoolers such as myself on penetration vs. trajectory tradeoffs.
so yeah the new WSM should be exciting to anyone that's a shooting enthusiast whether punching paper, hunting, or both.
it's the next step in evolution, and has it's place.
cost vs. performance is probably going to be the deciding factor of it's success or demise. though midway has a price on a box of it, no one really knows the extent of supply / demand to justify a higher or lower price.
even if at $20.00 a box of 50 seems reasonable for a groundhog slayer, if it lives up to the claims, for someone that doesn't reload or can afford the same 50 rounds of .223 critter shelf ammo.
but making assumptions and ruffleing each others feathers and leaving a bad taste in each others mouths on a cartridge that no one has in their hands yet is like fighting over if the 2016 silverado is better than the 2016 F150.
until it's in our hands with actual data, assumptions are just that, and perhaps all of my jibber jabber will be bunk too.
Re: The new 17 WSM
Yeah, if you're gut shooting the flea-bitten bastards you'll need a lot more oomph! Please don't take my praises for .17hmr as a claim that you can get away with poorly placed shots. You have to know its capabilities. It will penetrate like a mofo and then shatter the instant that it hits muscle tissue or the like. You will likely get your feelings hurt if you try to take anything larger than a house cat with a shoulder shot..... I was taught an important lesson in physics by a fox last year. I put a 55gr .224 Vmax into his shoulder and he liked it! It never made its way into the chest cavity and he ran off to die slowly a few hundred yards away. I simply was not aware of the limitations of the Vmax. It would be foolish to say that 5.56 is not sufficient for killing a fox, but poor shot placement and ignorance of bullet performance must be recognized.
Yeah, if you're gut shooting the flea-bitten bastards you'll need a lot more oomph! Please don't take my praises for .17hmr as a claim that you can get away with poorly placed shots. You have to know its capabilities. It will penetrate like a mofo and then shatter the instant that it hits muscle tissue or the like. You will likely get your feelings hurt if you try to take anything larger than a house cat with a shoulder shot..... I was taught an important lesson in physics by a fox last year. I put a 55gr .224 Vmax into his shoulder and he liked it! It never made its way into the chest cavity and he ran off to die slowly a few hundred yards away. I simply was not aware of the limitations of the Vmax. It would be foolish to say that 5.56 is not sufficient for killing a fox, but poor shot placement and ignorance of bullet performance must be recognized.
Re: The new 17 WSM
Man, a ton of hate for anything that isnt a 22lr or a 22WMR in this thread....
I personally see this round as another very good offering for rimfire.
I do a ton of shooting around several farms, small and large. Farmers like pigeons, cats, and raccoons dead. What they dont like is me out there pounding away with a centerfire or shotgun. The 17 HMR is the BEST thing that has happened to me, I have a very accurate rifle I can shoot with very little report that will flat lay out critters up to a raccoon in size. Potential for collateral damage is small, in fact I have one farmer that lets me shoot pigeons in the silos (he really hates them). With a center mass hit you get zero penetration into the tin used as the caps.
There is a limit on what the 17HMR can do, and I believe the WSM might pick up the slack, if I can get a mild reporting rifle to be effective to 150-200 yards they will have a winner for sure. I see the size of animal targeted to be similar to the 17HMR, only at farther distance.
I also ran a 22lr for a while, outside of CB longs there is nothing about that round that makes it more useful to me than a 17hmr.
At one point we were killing 75-100 raccoons a summer off of feed piles at distances of 75-100 yards. The 17 excelled at that and I would expect the WSM to do the same.
Man, a ton of hate for anything that isnt a 22lr or a 22WMR in this thread....
I personally see this round as another very good offering for rimfire.
I do a ton of shooting around several farms, small and large. Farmers like pigeons, cats, and raccoons dead. What they dont like is me out there pounding away with a centerfire or shotgun. The 17 HMR is the BEST thing that has happened to me, I have a very accurate rifle I can shoot with very little report that will flat lay out critters up to a raccoon in size. Potential for collateral damage is small, in fact I have one farmer that lets me shoot pigeons in the silos (he really hates them). With a center mass hit you get zero penetration into the tin used as the caps.
There is a limit on what the 17HMR can do, and I believe the WSM might pick up the slack, if I can get a mild reporting rifle to be effective to 150-200 yards they will have a winner for sure. I see the size of animal targeted to be similar to the 17HMR, only at farther distance.
I also ran a 22lr for a while, outside of CB longs there is nothing about that round that makes it more useful to me than a 17hmr.
At one point we were killing 75-100 raccoons a summer off of feed piles at distances of 75-100 yards. The 17 excelled at that and I would expect the WSM to do the same.
Re: The new 17 WSM
I have absolutely no dog in this hunt(and I love a good pun).
I couldn't care less about this new fangled cartridge, I have never had a use for a 17 caliber anything. I have killed a shitload of critters since I was 7 years old, never killed a coyote with any projectile less than 14 million grains(a car dummy).
However:
TP I can't believe you made reference to a gut shot with a 308, as some kind of comparison to a yet unseen cartridge. I had some respect for you again right up to that point.
Could we agree that a 22lr bullet is extremely large, and 1200fps is pretty fast, when comparing against a gray squirrel? Yet even a gray squirrel when cut nearly in half at the gut will retain the strength to crawl into a deadfall, hollow log, etc and be unrecoverable. Nothing, nada, zilch, zero will compensate for a poor shot. I have met SOOOO many people over the years that STILL think if its fast enough, or can tear a hole 1/4 the size of the animal, it don't matter where you hit them. POPPYCOCK
I have actually heard guys talk about their 7mm30autpoopshooterkinmagnusaurelious that kills em like lightnin, and "It don't matter where you hit em!" I get a real kick out of them guys.
Gut shot animals don't leave much blood, making excuses about a pelt soaking blood on a gut shot are also reaching. I am disapointed. It was a bad shot that has no frame of reference to any other cartridge, or any season of the year.
I used to kill deer with different weapons like some guys kill coyotes with different weapons. Nothing trumps shot placement...NOTHING
I can kill a deer with my Anschutz MPR just as easily as I can my 30-06. They BOTH require precise shot placement for a perfect kill.
I have absolutely no dog in this hunt(and I love a good pun).
I couldn't care less about this new fangled cartridge, I have never had a use for a 17 caliber anything. I have killed a shitload of critters since I was 7 years old, never killed a coyote with any projectile less than 14 million grains(a car dummy).
However:
TP I can't believe you made reference to a gut shot with a 308, as some kind of comparison to a yet unseen cartridge. I had some respect for you again right up to that point.
Could we agree that a 22lr bullet is extremely large, and 1200fps is pretty fast, when comparing against a gray squirrel? Yet even a gray squirrel when cut nearly in half at the gut will retain the strength to crawl into a deadfall, hollow log, etc and be unrecoverable. Nothing, nada, zilch, zero will compensate for a poor shot. I have met SOOOO many people over the years that STILL think if its fast enough, or can tear a hole 1/4 the size of the animal, it don't matter where you hit them. POPPYCOCK
I have actually heard guys talk about their 7mm30autpoopshooterkinmagnusaurelious that kills em like lightnin, and "It don't matter where you hit em!" I get a real kick out of them guys.
Gut shot animals don't leave much blood, making excuses about a pelt soaking blood on a gut shot are also reaching. I am disapointed. It was a bad shot that has no frame of reference to any other cartridge, or any season of the year.
I used to kill deer with different weapons like some guys kill coyotes with different weapons. Nothing trumps shot placement...NOTHING
I can kill a deer with my Anschutz MPR just as easily as I can my 30-06. They BOTH require precise shot placement for a perfect kill.
Re: The new 17 WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TP I can't believe you made reference to a gut shot with a 308, as some kind of comparison to a yet unseen cartridge. </div></div>
not comparing it to the WSM, just saying that the amount of blood trail was suprisingly nill with a winter coated yote, a .30 cal exit wound on a less than perfect shot.
so a .17 or .22 hole would have probably produce alot less or no blood trail with the same type of off shot.
not comparing .308 to .17 caliber, just that terminal results on a less than good shot between the two and what a disadvantage the .17 hmr, wsm or 22 mag would have as a dedicated coyote rifle in that situation. if a .308 vmax didn't leave good sign on a bad shot, certainly the others in that same situation wouldn't have.
i could assure you a gut shot wasn't intended, darn thing lunged, i squeezed.
respect back?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TP I can't believe you made reference to a gut shot with a 308, as some kind of comparison to a yet unseen cartridge. </div></div>
not comparing it to the WSM, just saying that the amount of blood trail was suprisingly nill with a winter coated yote, a .30 cal exit wound on a less than perfect shot.
so a .17 or .22 hole would have probably produce alot less or no blood trail with the same type of off shot.
not comparing .308 to .17 caliber, just that terminal results on a less than good shot between the two and what a disadvantage the .17 hmr, wsm or 22 mag would have as a dedicated coyote rifle in that situation. if a .308 vmax didn't leave good sign on a bad shot, certainly the others in that same situation wouldn't have.
i could assure you a gut shot wasn't intended, darn thing lunged, i squeezed.
respect back?
Re: The new 17 WSM
You miss my point. I ain't raggin' on you for the bad shot..hell we have all made them. My point is a bad shot is a bad shot and no matter what it was made with, the animal is not likely to die any quicker or slower. Now there are extremes to this I admit. But I have seen animals dragging guts that went a very long way and bled very little.
Gut shot animals do not bleed very well unless you have cut a renal artery, hit the spleen or liver. One of the quickest bad shot deaths I have seen, involved a lucky shard of bullet cutting the femoral on a deer.
My point is a 17HMR probably will not kill one any worse than a 308 with a 110 VMax if the shot is in the guts. I am all about blood trails, but when I did hunt fur I intended to make as small a hole in a pelt as possible, and kill as quick as possible. There were no rimfire 17's back then, had there been, I would have used one. If you aren't hunting fur I see no big reason to recover a coyote. If you are hunting fur I have to question using a 30 caliber bullet that is sure to rip on hell of a hole. I am assuming it does as I never used them as there were no coyotes in my area in the 80's. I wouldn't dream of using anything like that on a grey fox.
Just pullin' your chain about respect. You seem to be an avid shooter so you must be alright.
You miss my point. I ain't raggin' on you for the bad shot..hell we have all made them. My point is a bad shot is a bad shot and no matter what it was made with, the animal is not likely to die any quicker or slower. Now there are extremes to this I admit. But I have seen animals dragging guts that went a very long way and bled very little.
Gut shot animals do not bleed very well unless you have cut a renal artery, hit the spleen or liver. One of the quickest bad shot deaths I have seen, involved a lucky shard of bullet cutting the femoral on a deer.
My point is a 17HMR probably will not kill one any worse than a 308 with a 110 VMax if the shot is in the guts. I am all about blood trails, but when I did hunt fur I intended to make as small a hole in a pelt as possible, and kill as quick as possible. There were no rimfire 17's back then, had there been, I would have used one. If you aren't hunting fur I see no big reason to recover a coyote. If you are hunting fur I have to question using a 30 caliber bullet that is sure to rip on hell of a hole. I am assuming it does as I never used them as there were no coyotes in my area in the 80's. I wouldn't dream of using anything like that on a grey fox.
Just pullin' your chain about respect. You seem to be an avid shooter so you must be alright.
Re: The new 17 WSM
I'm not going to impose my standards on others and I hope others don't mind if I ignore what they seem to think is good enough.
Just to clarify, my idea of a perfect cartridge for the tough and resilient coyote is somewhere between a 22-250 and a 243.
I wouldn't feel under gunned with a .223 (I love the AI in a 9 twist for coyotes) and have put many down with a .204 when presented with the opportunity.
I have been VERY careful with my shot selection with a .204 (and all shots on animals for that matter with any caliber) and will <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> opt for that cartridge for dedicated coyote work, though I <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> be persuaded to do so with a toughish 40+ grain bullet and proper rifle twist. But then again, maybe not. There are just better choices IMO. A 22 (K) hornet with a well constructed 50+ grainer would be more reliable I would think. Less splash/more weight.
It's not out of respect for the coyote (though I do respect them more than enough to put them down humanely) that I choose a reliably killing cartridge, it is more to reduce the visibility of maimed coyotes to the non/anti-hunting wildlife observers. We have to keep in mind that stupid people are now proven to be in the majority these days.
You guys who want to poke at them with your rimfires, just realize you are representing me when one of your yotes' run off to who knows where.
For me personally a well placed 243/Nosler BT 80 grainer is good coyote medicine. I haven't had any yotes complain with this one so far.
Note: I am in CA and we don't deal with pelts here like they might do in other parts of the country. At least that I know of?
So there you have it man!
I did not think that a caliber corresponds with the ignition source. I was more hoping I was responding in the proper context.
And I am not a rimfire hater. I LOVE them! And I'm pretty sure I could have a good time with the 17 WSM.
I just shot a Feb short range rimfire target today that I'll probably be posting and had a really great time rim-firing with my family.
I'm not going to impose my standards on others and I hope others don't mind if I ignore what they seem to think is good enough.
Just to clarify, my idea of a perfect cartridge for the tough and resilient coyote is somewhere between a 22-250 and a 243.
I wouldn't feel under gunned with a .223 (I love the AI in a 9 twist for coyotes) and have put many down with a .204 when presented with the opportunity.
I have been VERY careful with my shot selection with a .204 (and all shots on animals for that matter with any caliber) and will <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> opt for that cartridge for dedicated coyote work, though I <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> be persuaded to do so with a toughish 40+ grain bullet and proper rifle twist. But then again, maybe not. There are just better choices IMO. A 22 (K) hornet with a well constructed 50+ grainer would be more reliable I would think. Less splash/more weight.
It's not out of respect for the coyote (though I do respect them more than enough to put them down humanely) that I choose a reliably killing cartridge, it is more to reduce the visibility of maimed coyotes to the non/anti-hunting wildlife observers. We have to keep in mind that stupid people are now proven to be in the majority these days.
You guys who want to poke at them with your rimfires, just realize you are representing me when one of your yotes' run off to who knows where.
For me personally a well placed 243/Nosler BT 80 grainer is good coyote medicine. I haven't had any yotes complain with this one so far.
Note: I am in CA and we don't deal with pelts here like they might do in other parts of the country. At least that I know of?
So there you have it man!
I did not think that a caliber corresponds with the ignition source. I was more hoping I was responding in the proper context.
And I am not a rimfire hater. I LOVE them! And I'm pretty sure I could have a good time with the 17 WSM.
I just shot a Feb short range rimfire target today that I'll probably be posting and had a really great time rim-firing with my family.
Re: The new 17 WSM
And you will note that I am not advocating for the 17 JamSlammer or whatever they are gonna call it. I am advocating shot placement....period. I doubt I would pick a 17 for hunting a yote either. Just sayin if you pick your shot and shoot within your ability and the reasonable range of the cartridge it will likely do the job. If I am in farm and livestock country(and I am) I couldn't give two shits about where the son of a bitch dies.
I am not imposing my standards on anyone. Hell I would think shot placement would be important to everyone. I also firmly believe in using enough gun for the job. Around here I will hunt them with a shotgun and #4 buck or a 223. I just haven't had time.
And you will note that I am not advocating for the 17 JamSlammer or whatever they are gonna call it. I am advocating shot placement....period. I doubt I would pick a 17 for hunting a yote either. Just sayin if you pick your shot and shoot within your ability and the reasonable range of the cartridge it will likely do the job. If I am in farm and livestock country(and I am) I couldn't give two shits about where the son of a bitch dies.
I am not imposing my standards on anyone. Hell I would think shot placement would be important to everyone. I also firmly believe in using enough gun for the job. Around here I will hunt them with a shotgun and #4 buck or a 223. I just haven't had time.
Re: The new 17 WSM
I kill coyotes with double taps from my 50BMG and 649gr Armor Piercing Incendiary bullets. Anything lesser caliber is just plain unethical
I kill coyotes with double taps from my 50BMG and 649gr Armor Piercing Incendiary bullets. Anything lesser caliber is just plain unethical
Re: The new 17 WSM
I think we're on the same page armorpl8chikn. We are just in different environments and I think we would probably react the same way in each others shoes.
Sometimes the internet doesn't represent our views as good as we would like.
I think we're on the same page armorpl8chikn. We are just in different environments and I think we would probably react the same way in each others shoes.
Sometimes the internet doesn't represent our views as good as we would like.
Who is this guy? I mean WTF!
we cool - i should have noted just going for weight and not fur for local contests...the .308 gets me out further and more confident in using in field conditions at longer ranges to pull out a carcass rather than worrying about pelt preservation. .357 revolver sits next to me for close range stuff funning up the hedge row and a shotgun at night. obviously going for fur the smaller entry / exit hole is desired of a .17 or .22 cal. two different types of hunting, different tools used.
I've got a lot of ammo stockpiled for my .17 hmr, got on board with that for small game and paper punching and the lead-free rounds (required in parts of CA) work very well, both accuracy and have yet to lose anything I've hit. Based on that, I won't be looking to switch.
However, if I was starting over and if pricing for this new round was similar and the accuracy was there... similar tiny bullets to the hmr, just faster? Can't see a downside to faster.
However, if I was starting over and if pricing for this new round was similar and the accuracy was there... similar tiny bullets to the hmr, just faster? Can't see a downside to faster.
