Sidearms & Scatterguns The real Highpower is back

mcameron

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    The CZ 75 and SP-01 never left.

    The P-09 and P-07 are my all time favorite polymer handguns. I also have a pair of P-10s and no matter how good you can get their triggers they still aren't as good as those with a real hammer. Glocks are at the bottom of the list.

    No SAO anything in my safe. Can't stand manual safeties.
    well thats the thing....aside from CZ and 1911's....there really wasnt anything.

    Berettas 92 line is struggling to hang in there...

    and Sig has all but given up on their 22X line
     

    308pirate

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    Why DA with a decocker?

    Seems like extra weight and complexity with no return on investment.

    A decocker adds an imperceptible amount of weight. Decockers add no measurable complexity to a handgun.

    A decocker is infintely safer in the transition from cocked to decocked than doing so by pressing the trigger with a finger on the hammer.

    USPSA rules do not allow cocked and locked starts in Production or Carry Optics. If your DA/SA pistol doesn't have a decocker you have to lower the hammer by pinching it between two fingers and lowering while the trigger is pressed back.
     
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    TurboTrout

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    A decocker adds an imperceptible amount of weight. Decockers add no measurable complexity to a handgun.

    A decocker is infintely safer in the transition from cocked to decocked than doing so by pressing the trigger with a finger on the hammer.

    USPSA rules do not allow cocked and locked starts in Production or Carry Optics. If your DA/SA pistol doesn't have a decocker you have to lower the hammer by pinching it between two fingers and lowering while the trigger is pressed back.

    I’ve decocked SAO since I first started shooting with my dad as a little kid, with little kid hands, didn’t seem like much of a event to me 🤷‍♂️

    If you have goo all over your hands or something and need to clear the weapon, just drop the mag, rack the round out of the chamber, badabing

    Not allowing cocked and locked seems like a unrealistic start to a match that’s sposed to simulate a combat/tactical type situation, who in real life has a hammer fire holstered with the hammer down?

    Condition 1 all the things
     

    E. Bryant

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    The only way I'd be interested in one is if it
    1. Came with a DA/SA trigger and decocker and
    2. Came with the optic plate system of the FN 509
    As it is it's too heavy to be a carry pistol and it's not competitive in any USPSA division that it fits

    With the above changes it could be a USPSA carry optics contender

    That would be awesome, but you're talking about the company that doesn't even bother making a Tactical or MRD version of the FNX-9.
     

    308pirate

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    Not allowing cocked and locked seems like a unrealistic start to a match that’s sposed to simulate a combat/tactical type situation, who in real life has a hammer fire holstered with the hammer down?

    You're an idiot if you carry a DA/SA pistol with the hammer cocked, unless it's one of the few that also has a manual safety.

    All my DA/SA handguns have decockers only, which means they are not safe to holster with the hammer cocked. They are designed to be carried with the hammer down and fired double action for the first shot. That's how I carry my EDC (a CZ P-07) and that's how I compete in USPSA Carry Optics (CZ P-09)

    It is very realistic to start a stage with the hammer down on a DA/SA pistol, as that is how they are designed to be carried.

    USPSA has divisions in which cocked and locked is allowed. They are Open and Limited divisions.

    Your gun handling skills sound like a bad joke.
     

    MadDuner

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    You're an idiot if you carry a DA/SA pistol with the hammer cocked, unless it's one of the few that also has a manual safety.

    All my DA/SA handguns have decockers only, which means they are not safe to holster with the hammer cocked. They are designed to be carried with the hammer down and fired double action for the first shot. That's how I carry my EDC (a CZ P-07) and that's how I compete in USPSA Carry Optics (CZ P-09)

    It is very realistic to start a stage with the hammer down on a DA/SA pistol, as that is how they are designed to be carried.

    USPSA has divisions in which cocked and locked is allowed. They are Open and Limited divisions.

    Your gun handling skills sound like a bad joke.
    I too am completely ingrained in DA/SA in anything I carry.
    Only my P-01 is manual safety.
    It gets carried hammer down.
     
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    MadDuner

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    Did you get one of the rare, steel frame P-01s with a safety? Mine was the more common aluminum frame with decocker.
    Yes.
    The steel is only a little bit heavier than the alloy.
    Full CGW treatment and a joy to shoot.
    It's one of my favorite handguns.
     

    MK20

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    Cherpes, President and CEO for FN America, LLC. “Rather than introduce a clone of the original, we had to deliver much more than other brands, knowing the FN High Power would be held to a higher standard.

    Let me translate, "Springfield Armory ate our lunch with a 700 dollar better version of our signature product that we were charging 1200 for, so we can't compete. What we can do is breed a Hi Power with a P85 and a boat anchor and tell you you should buy it because FN."
     

    Basher

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    As the owner of a 5th gen Camaro, I consider myself to be a leading expert in the category of "new models that look vaguely like the decades-old original but share absolutely no components and really don't even perform the same way".

    $1200 for this thing? You know the market is fucked up when my first thought is "that's less than I expected".

    Exactly this. I don’t care what Ford, Chevy, or FN call their products. Companies release “new” versions of old products that don’t perform like the original all the time. Ultimately, the buying public decides of they agree enough for the product to last. The world is full of failed resurrected products because the “new/improved” version didn’t live up to the expectations set by the original.

    FN can call it an HP. Maybe I’ll agree after I try one, maybe I won’t. It may be a great gun in it’s own right, which is fine. But I don’t have to agree that something that merely looks like the original is going to perform like the original.

    Why am I even arguing this? I don’t give two shits what anyone else thinks about my tastes and purchases. If it runs great and I have money to burn, maybe I’ll get one. If it flops? Then I won’t buy one. The name alone won’t sway my decision, LOL. But I can still disagree that it has anything to do with it’s namesake, because reasons. 🤣
     

    Bigfatcock

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    Cherpes, President and CEO for FN America, LLC. “Rather than introduce a clone of the original, we had to deliver much more than other brands, knowing the FN High Power would be held to a higher standard.

    Let me translate, "Springfield Armory ate our lunch with a 700 dollar better version of our signature product that we were charging 1200 for, so we can't compete. What we can do is breed a Hi Power with a P85 and a boat anchor and tell you you should buy it because FN."
    “Then we’ll discontinue it in 2 years and tell you to go fuck yourselves. Even if we don’t discontinue it, we’ll still tell you to go fuck yourselves.”

    Sincerely,
    FN customer service
     

    308pirate

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    analogies are the weakest form of argumentative attempt.

    Analogies can be superb ways to frame an argument. Strawmen argument, like yours, are not.

    If you can refute my analogy, please do.
     

    Bigfatcock

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    Seriously, this thing is as close to being a Hi Power as the Sig M17 is.

    It’s literally a different design.
     
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    MadDuner

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    FN is just confusing the issue by calling it a High Power.
    They could just as well call it a FN827.... except nobody would be talking about it then. LOL
     

    Bigfatcock

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    This just in: FN reintroduces the M1905 pistol. “We kept the core components like, having a barrel and trigger, that made the gun great, while modernizing it to what you see below.”

    D42C620A-7369-473A-ADD7-3411019E2EDA.jpeg
     
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    308pirate

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    ha, I felt compelled to correct my initial comment to analogies are the second weakest form and in the minute that took.. you posted

    Ad hominem attacks are the weakest, thanks for that.

    No rebuttal or refutal

    Got it.
     

    E. Bryant

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    The sooner people realize that FN actually hates you for buying their products, the easier it is to understand their company, lol.

    This is more honest than any FN-sponsored content that Tim Kennedy has posted on Instagram.

    I still like the 509 lineup and the FNX-45 because I have codependency issues.
     

    Arc Light

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    They should just call it the SCAR Battle Pistol. That way they could charge $3K and they would have people lining up to buy it (then selling them unfired a month later for $4K).
     

    Bigfatcock

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    This is more honest than any FN-sponsored content that Tim Kennedy has posted on Instagram.

    I still like the 509 lineup and the FNX-45 because I have codependency issues.
    I’ve been a part of the same kind of abusive relationship with Colt’s forever, lol.

    Colt’s and FN literally hate you.
     

    mcameron

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    This just in: FN reintroduces the M1905 pistol. “We kept the core components like, having a barrel and trigger, that made the gun great, while modernizing it to what you see below.”

    View attachment 7787678

    so by your logic....is this not a beretta M9?
    m9a3_listing0011.png




    afterall, it only bears a slight resemblance to the original M9
    m9_listing0011.png
     

    TurboTrout

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    You're an idiot if you carry a DA/SA pistol with the hammer cocked, unless it's one of the few that also has a manual safety.

    All my DA/SA handguns have decockers only, which means they are not safe to holster with the hammer cocked. They are designed to be carried with the hammer down and fired double action for the first shot. That's how I carry my EDC (a CZ P-07) and that's how I compete in USPSA Carry Optics (CZ P-09)

    It is very realistic to start a stage with the hammer down on a DA/SA pistol, as that is how they are designed to be carried.

    USPSA has divisions in which cocked and locked is allowed. They are Open and Limited divisions.

    Your gun handling skills sound like a bad joke.

    I’m not a fudd and don’t cosplay, so I don’t have many DAs, I also don’t carry curio/relics so all of my hammer fire has manual (paddle) safeties, so condition 1.

    Let me guess, you want that extra super heavy first pull just “to be sure”?

    My SAO has a very easy manual safety that even blocks the fire pin, don’t need anything more than that, I’ll take my small travel and light trigger over a DA anyday.

    Personally from what I’ve researched, and it’s been a decent amount, that first shot is the most important, I want a uniform pull, I don’t want to have to fight with a heavy trigger with miles of travel, safety off on the draw, and if my finger goes to the trigger it’s to fire 🤷‍♂️

    Seems the high end competition guns are SAO, basic paddle safety, with no decockers
     

    Gustav7

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    Not allowing cocked and locked seems like a unrealistic start to a match that’s sposed to simulate a combat/tactical type situation, who in real life has a hammer fire holstered with the hammer down?

    Condition 1 all the things

    LOL you mean like a combat situation involving an M9? with the hammer down and a DA first pull?

    I’m not a fudd and don’t cosplay, so I don’t have many DAs, I also don’t carry curio/relics so all of my hammer fire has manual (paddle) safeties, so condition 1.
    Let me guess, you want that extra super heavy first pull just “to be sure”?

    Dude if DA pistols hurt you just say so. What about a DA gun is a curio/relic or fudd gun, but a SAO (say...maybe a 1911) isn't all of the above?

    Maybe you haven't fired a nice DA gun, but that first pull isn't an issue after training with it. Similar to say....training with an external manual safety. Any drill, situation, or scenario that can be done with a striker fire or SAO can be done just as well with a DA first pull.
     

    Milf Dots

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    If one wants to own a Hi-Power, own a Browning/FN. SA doesn't make a Hi Power.
     

    TurboTrout

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    LOL you mean like a combat situation involving an M9? with the hammer down and a DA first pull?



    Dude if DA pistols hurt you just say so. What about a DA gun is a curio/relic or fudd gun, but a SAO (say...maybe a 1911) isn't all of the above?

    Maybe you haven't fired a nice DA gun, but that first pull isn't an issue after training with it. Similar to say....training with an external manual safety. Any drill, situation, or scenario that can be done with a striker fire or SAO can be done just as well with a DA first pull.

    Hey, I’m all for folks shooting whatever they like, better to carry a surplus M9 than nothing.

    I just like a better trigger, the easier the gun makes to for me to get rounds on target with speed and accuracy the better, outside of .gov with the with funny requirements, seems all the high end competition pistols, be it 22 target or 3 gun, all go towards single action.
     

    308pirate

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    I’m not a fudd and don’t cosplay, so I don’t have many DAs, I also don’t carry curio/relics so all of my hammer fire has manual (paddle) safeties, so condition 1.

    Let me guess, you want that extra super heavy first pull just “to be sure”?

    My SAO has a very easy manual safety that even blocks the fire pin, don’t need anything more than that, I’ll take my small travel and light trigger over a DA anyday.

    Personally from what I’ve researched, and it’s been a decent amount, that first shot is the most important, I want a uniform pull, I don’t want to have to fight with a heavy trigger with miles of travel, safety off on the draw, and if my finger goes to the trigger it’s to fire 🤷‍♂️

    Seems the high end competition guns are SAO, basic paddle safety, with no decockers

    Quit showing your ignorance
     

    Bigfatcock

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    so by your logic....is this not a beretta M9?
    m9a3_listing0011.png




    afterall, it only bears a slight resemblance to the original M9
    m9_listing0011.png
    It’s an M9-A3. Vertec grip, baby shit paint, suppressor sights, threaded barrel, mechanically the same as the M9. They actually all fall under the 92 umbrella.

    The High power is a completely different pistol from the Hi Power.
     
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    308pirate

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    Hey, I’m all for folks shooting whatever they like, better to carry a surplus M9 than nothing.

    I just like a better trigger, the easier the gun makes to for me to get rounds on target with speed and accuracy the better, outside of .gov with the with funny requirements, seems all the high end competition pistols, be it 22 target or 3 gun, all go towards single action.

    You are a fudd

    But muh single action.........

    LOL you'd get smoked
     

    TurboTrout

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    You are a fudd

    But muh single action.........

    LOL you'd get smoked

    Yes, but only because your a operatorz 😂

    But only after you have your black rifle coffee and check your beties


    Far from a fudd as I support the 2A as written and reaffirmed in the federalist papers

    But in many ways a fudd is better than a .gov larper no?
     

    Basher

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    so by your logic....is this not a beretta M9?
    m9a3_listing0011.png




    afterall, it only bears a slight resemblance to the original M9
    m9_listing0011.png

    LOL WUT

    It’s the exact same system of operation. A rail was added, and the grip was changed. That’s pretty much it. All other parts will interchange completely. It’s mechanically identical. The slide from each will fit and function on the other.

    On the new HP, they’ve changed enough that numerous parts will not interchange between them. Mechanically it is similar but not identical. I’m willing to bet a majority of the parts will physically not swap from new to old. Thus, the new HP is essentially a clean sheet design that just outwardly sort of looks like an HP.
     

    TurboTrout

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    Wonder why they didn’t just make a true high power? I’d think the folks this might appeal to would prefer a legit 1:1 new high power, I guess maybe a option for night sights or G10 grips, but keeping the bones the same seems smart if you’re appealing the the folks who A know what a high power is, and B want one 🤷‍♂️

    Maybe make a true to spec one and a “performance edition” one with RMR rails threaded etc?
     

    pmclaine

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    USPSA rules do not allow cocked and locked starts in Production or Carry Optics. If your DA/SA pistol doesn't have a decocker you have to lower the hammer by pinching it between two fingers and lowering while the trigger is pressed back.

    :eek:
     

    strikeeagle1

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    The wood grips are too slick for real life. From the Guns & Coffee thread. My Not-All-New John Browning Belgium HP 9 mm, assembled in Portugual. The magazine disconnect shoe is directly connected to the trigger which is the source of a poor OEM trigger feel....it can be smoothed up quite nicely with a little attention to smoothing the engagement surfaces.
    Browning Hi-Power 9 mm with Coffee Photos 2020IMG_7215 copy.jpg

    Screen Shot 2022-01-18 at 7.05.39 PM.png
     
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    longshot2000

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