The TRG accessories argument

[bm11]

Because it came up again, I did a little math, because every time I hear "it's actually cheaper to own the AE, once you figure in the accessories," it doesn't add up to me. So here is a little math for you:

Buy 2 TRG mags at $180 = $360, but subtract out the two AE 10 round mags at $77.28 apiece and you net out with $205.44 extra.

Then buy the TRG-22 bipod for $450 (yes, you can get this price shopping around a bit) but subtract the cost of the AI/Parker Hale bipod at $357.12, and the net additional is $92.88. Yes, you can make the argument for an Atlas, but accushot also makes a pic rail adapter for the TRG, so that argument doesn't fly.

Did a little research, and it looks like you can get the AE with the fixed stock for $3,369.00, but if you want threads you have to either pay to thread it or buy the model with the brake installed, for $3,696.

The TRG comes pre threaded, and the brake costs $200. So, lets do a little math here:

AIAE w/brake: $3696
bipod: $357.12

Total: $4053.12

TRG: $2500
brake: $200
bipod: $450

total: $3150

So we have a difference of $903.12

Each bipod for the TRG runs $102.72 MORE for the TRG than for the AIAE.

By this math, the only TRG owner that is into his package for more, is the one who buys 9 or more additional magazines.

If anyone reading this thread has a TRG-22 OR an AIAE and currently has 10 or more magazines, please speak up.

Now, for the record- I love both platforms. I OWN an AIAW and I OWN a TRG-22. So, I am certainly not the TRG-22 guy out to get the AI. But frankly, I have seen this argument one too many times now, and I wanted to break it down for anyone who didn't take the time to do the math.

I would like to add as well- all of this math goes to shit if we start talking FOLDING STOCK.

-Bob

 

[jbell]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

How much for a extra TRG trigger group?

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much for a extra TRG trigger group?</div></div>

did you break one?

i bet really expensive at least $500 since it has the trigger guard as part of the unit.

I just got a trg 22 and love it to death, i doubt even my terrible rifle a.d.d. will let me sell this one down the road unless i get in finacial trouble.

 

[R.Walters]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

jbell didnt but bm11 did

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

i thought his was just heavy i didn't know it was all the way broke? bummer

 

[Massoud]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

Bob,
Good analysis. And we're working to take away that folder discrepancy.

 

[jbell]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

I was busting BM11 nuts b/c he was having a bit of a time with his trigger group. I though this was a very good post and well worth Bobs time doing it , and will help in making a decision on what to buy. And by the way I am one of those who the AI or AICS does not fit ( unfortunatly) but the TRG is " like a glove".

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was busting BM11 nuts b/c he was having a bit of a time with his trigger group. I though this was a very good post and well worth Bobs time doing it , and will help in making a decision on what to buy. And by the way I am one of those who the AI or AICS does not fit ( unfortunatly) but the TRG is " like a glove".</div></div>

that makes 2 of us i just couldn't get used to aics stock, however the trg is a dream come true.

 

[BBsteel]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

Great post and thanks. I've been kicking around the TRG and AE systems and have read the "accessories" cost anologies a few too many times myself with disbelief. I was able to price it out as the OP but it's nice to see a break down of the realistic $$$$$.

 

[R.Walters]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was busting BM11 nuts b/c he was having a bit of a time with his trigger group. I though this was a very good post and well worth Bobs time doing it , and will help in making a decision on what to buy. And by the way I am one of those who the AI or AICS does not fit ( unfortunatly) but the TRG is " like a glove".</div></div>

that makes 2 of us i just couldn't get used to aics stock, however the trg is a dream come true.</div></div> my next rifle is going to be a trg 22 or 42! cant wait.

 

[jbell]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

I know to each his own but I have to say I have owned many fine rifles and have shot many more , but the TRG is in a class of its own in my mind. When you consider the accuracy , and ergonomics , trigger group , and just plain quality of the TRG and then factor in the price (fixed stock 26") there is nothing out there that can compare. To me they are the Nightforce scopes of the rifle world. If anyone is thinking about getting one and is having to save up the cash or sell there current rig to do so its worth it!

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because it came up again, I did a little math, because every time I hear "it's actually cheaper to own the AE, once you figure in the accessories," it doesn't add up to me. So here is a little math for you:

Buy 2 TRG mags at $180 = $360, but subtract out the two AE 10 round mags at $77.28 apiece and you net out with $205.44 extra.

Then buy the TRG-22 bipod for $450 (yes, you can get this price shopping around a bit) but subtract the cost of the AI/Parker Hale bipod at $357.12, and the net additional is $92.88. Yes, you can make the argument for an Atlas, but accushot also makes a pic rail adapter for the TRG, so that argument doesn't fly.

Did a little research, and it looks like you can get the AE with the fixed stock for $3,369.00, but if you want threads you have to either pay to thread it or buy the model with the brake installed, for $3,696.

The TRG comes pre threaded, and the brake costs $200. So, lets do a little math here:

AIAE w/brake: $3696
bipod: $357.12

Total: $4053.12

TRG: $2500
brake: $200
bipod: $450

total: $3150

So we have a difference of $903.12

Each bipod for the TRG runs $102.72 MORE for the TRG than for the AIAE.

By this math, the only TRG owner that is into his package for more, is the one who buys 9 or more additional magazines.

If anyone reading this thread has a TRG-22 OR an AIAE and currently has 10 or more magazines, please speak up.

Now, for the record- I love both platforms. I OWN an AIAW and I OWN a TRG-22. So, I am certainly not the TRG-22 guy out to get the AI. But frankly, I have seen this argument one too many times now, and I wanted to break it down for anyone who didn't take the time to do the math.

I would like to add as well- all of this math goes to shit if we start talking FOLDING STOCK.

-Bob


</div></div>

Okay, once again - you're comparing apples to oranges. Heavily discounted, below-MAP prices on the TRG, to MSRP on the AE. MAP is $2698 on the cheapest TRG, which is the exact same lowest price I can find listed on Gunbroker right now. As mentioned before, $3369 is full MSRP on the AE - <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> an equal comparison by any measure.

Your figure of a $903 difference <span style="font-weight: bold">assumes</span> that you've discounted your rifle, brake, and bipod by a solid $569 below the actual retail. And even at full retail on the AE mags, and the lowest discounted price on the TRG, you're <span style="font-weight: bold">still</span> spending $108 more per spare magazine ($185-77).

And of course, you're forgetting to mention the scope mounting systems...comparing an AE to a TRG is only fair if you add the TRG picatinny rail, which runs a full $305 even at the lowest discounted pricing. Buy the Optilock rings, and you're spending hundreds more than the AI mount.

So to update your comparison above, you get the following numbers:

AIAE w/brake (and picatinny rail): $3696 (retail)
Bipod: $357.12 (retail)

Total: $4053.12

TRG: $2850 (retail)
Brake: $200 (discounted price)
Bipod: $450 (discounted price)
Picatinny rail: $305 (discounted price)

Total: $3805

Difference: $248.12. Which disappears as soon as you buy two spare magazines (at the discounted rate no less!).

 

[bm11]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much for a extra TRG trigger group? </div></div>$426.78 http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=0/sid=904/schematicsdetail/TRG_22_42

 

[bm11]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i thought his was just heavy i didn't know it was all the way broke? bummer </div></div>Didn't, but thought I did. Turns it out they need lube, haha. I tore it all apart after it stopped working all together, but when I tore it apart, I found nothing worn or broken. So I put it all back together, and squirted a little light lube in it. Magically, it felt like a TRG-22 trigger for the first time!

I thought all triggers ran OK dry, but I was wrong.

 

[bm11]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because it came up again, I did a little math, because every time I hear "it's actually cheaper to own the AE, once you figure in the accessories," it doesn't add up to me. So here is a little math for you:

Buy 2 TRG mags at $180 = $360, but subtract out the two AE 10 round mags at $77.28 apiece and you net out with $205.44 extra.

Then buy the TRG-22 bipod for $450 (yes, you can get this price shopping around a bit) but subtract the cost of the AI/Parker Hale bipod at $357.12, and the net additional is $92.88. Yes, you can make the argument for an Atlas, but accushot also makes a pic rail adapter for the TRG, so that argument doesn't fly.

Did a little research, and it looks like you can get the AE with the fixed stock for $3,369.00, but if you want threads you have to either pay to thread it or buy the model with the brake installed, for $3,696.

The TRG comes pre threaded, and the brake costs $200. So, lets do a little math here:

AIAE w/brake: $3696
bipod: $357.12

Total: $4053.12

TRG: $2500
brake: $200
bipod: $450

total: $3150

So we have a difference of $903.12

Each bipod for the TRG runs $102.72 MORE for the TRG than for the AIAE.

By this math, the only TRG owner that is into his package for more, is the one who buys 9 or more additional magazines.

If anyone reading this thread has a TRG-22 OR an AIAE and currently has 10 or more magazines, please speak up.

Now, for the record- I love both platforms. I OWN an AIAW and I OWN a TRG-22. So, I am certainly not the TRG-22 guy out to get the AI. But frankly, I have seen this argument one too many times now, and I wanted to break it down for anyone who didn't take the time to do the math.

I would like to add as well- all of this math goes to shit if we start talking FOLDING STOCK.

-Bob


</div></div>

Okay, once again - you're comparing apples to oranges. Heavily discounted, below-MAP prices on the TRG, to MSRP on the AE. MAP is $2698 on the cheapest TRG, which is the exact same lowest price I can find listed on Gunbroker right now. As mentioned before, $3369 is full MSRP on the AE - <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> an equal comparison by any measure.

Your figure of a $903 difference <span style="font-weight: bold">assumes</span> that you've discounted your rifle, brake, and bipod by a solid $569 below the actual retail. And even at full retail on the AE mags, and the lowest discounted price on the TRG, you're <span style="font-weight: bold">still</span> spending $108 more per spare magazine ($185-77).

And of course, you're forgetting to mention the scope mounting systems...comparing an AE to a TRG is only fair if you add the TRG picatinny rail, which runs a full $305 even at the lowest discounted pricing. Buy the Optilock rings, and you're spending hundreds more than the AI mount.

So to update your comparison above, you get the following numbers:

AIAE w/brake (and picatinny rail): $3696 (retail)
Bipod: $357.12 (retail)

Total: $4053.12

TRG: $2850 (retail)
Brake: $200 (discounted price)
Bipod: $450 (discounted price)
Picatinny rail: $305 (discounted price)

Total: $3805

Difference: $248.12. Which disappears as soon as you buy two spare magazines (at the discounted rate no less!). </div></div>Jonathan, to be fair, I thought the prices on your site WERE discounted. I went to your website to get all the numbers I got...

I would be interested to see what the prices are, discounted to discounted, and see how all the math adds up. If you can't post it up, you could PM me a "quote" that I could then post up to compare.

Again, I LOVE AI rifles, and I LOVE my AW. Just think that the TRG is a great buy, even with the rediculous accessories.

Oh, and the TRG bipod is WORTH IT!!!

 

[Mike]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And of course, you're forgetting to mention the scope mounting systems...comparing an AE to a TRG is only fair if you add the TRG picatinny rail, which runs a full $305 even at the lowest discounted pricing. Buy the Optilock rings, and you're spending hundreds more than the AI mount.
</div></div>

Not sure I understand here. If you're comparing dovetail to dovetail than you may have a point. But USO and Badger both make picatinny rails for TRGs and rings are rings so it's a wash if we're not talking dovetail mounts.

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And of course, you're forgetting to mention the scope mounting systems...comparing an AE to a TRG is only fair if you add the TRG picatinny rail, which runs a full $305 even at the lowest discounted pricing. Buy the Optilock rings, and you're spending hundreds more than the AI mount.
</div></div>

Not sure I understand here. If you're comparing dovetail to dovetail than you may have a point. But USO and Badger both make picatinny rails for TRGs and rings are rings so it's a wash if we're not talking dovetail mounts. </div></div>

You can't get an AE with a dovetail mount - they all come from the factory with a picatinny rail. The TRGs do not - you either have to buy their (expensive) scope mount, or add a rail. My point is that to have a level comparison between the two, you're either talking TRG + Sako Mount, or TRG + Pic Rail + Rings. In comparison, the AE is just the AE - you can spend $195 on the AI mount, or stick a set of Burris $50 rings on top, or whatever else you want...your choice. The TRG forces you to spend more money on either a rail or a more expensive mount, no matter what you do. The only other alternative solution involves the all-powerful duct tape and superglue mounting combination.

 

[Mike]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

OK, the AE comes with a pic rail and the TRG you have to buy one. The rings are a wash as they're the same so we're only talking a $100-$135. difference for what some would argue would be a better rail, USO or Badger.

 

[bm11]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

I would argue that the AI pic rail is very limiting as a 0 moa. I like my AI dovetail, I use either the AI dovetail mount with 18 moa cant built in, or my USO 20 moa rail with Badger rings, for quickly mounting back and forth. My TRG came with a 0 moa base, but has been upgraded to a 20 moa base, so I can swap the scope back and forth between it and my AW in about the time it takes to loosen and torque two nuts to 35 inch pounds.

Something you can't do with the 0 moa AI pic rail, yes?

Again, to put this in perspective, I am only playing devils advocate. I own a like both systems.

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would argue that the AI pic rail is very limiting as a 0 moa. I like my AI dovetail, I use either the AI dovetail mount with 18 moa cant built in, or my USO 20 moa rail with Badger rings, for quickly mounting back and forth. My TRG came with a 0 moa base, but has been upgraded to a 20 moa base, so I can swap the scope back and forth between it and my AW in about the time it takes to loosen and torque two nuts to 35 inch pounds.

Something you can't do with the 0 moa AI pic rail, yes?

Again, to put this in perspective, I am only playing devils advocate. I own a like both systems.</div></div>

I just don't see the absolute necessity of a canted rail; it's just not 100% mandatory. My AE has a 0 MOA rail, and 0 MOA rings - and I still have 53 minutes of elevation available to me on my scope (which is just an old Leupold, nothing fancy). <span style="font-style: italic">Just</span> barely not quite enough to make it to 1300 yards with my simple 175gr load. At that distance my bullets are on the ragged edge of going transsonic anyways.

If you had both an AE and a TRG, both with 0 MOA rails, and you really wanted some extra elevation, then just get an 18 or 28 MOA AI one-piece mount. To swap, just loosen the bolts and move it over. In my case, that extra 18 MOA would put it out to almost 1500 yards, but by that point the projectile is barely pushing 1000 FPS. Worthwhile? It can't hurt in moderation - it's just not likely to do a huge amount of good most of the time.

And if you really, really want a 20 MOA rail for the AE, they are indeed available from aftermarket sources. But it just makes sense to get your cant from the mount that you're already going to have to buy, rather than spending money replacing something that works just fine.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much for a extra TRG trigger group?</div></div>

$0.00 from Beretta service and I think I only shipped one way.

Oh and I Killed mine on improper instal...Bolt in.

 

[kidkl]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

So in other words if I want a 20moa or so base (which is pretty standard around here so I am surprised to see some debate about wanting or needing a 20moa base). I need to buy the $195 AI Mount for the AE. Or for the TRG I buy a warne base for $90 and whatever rings (Burris for $50 or Seekins for $140). So its either ~$50 cheaper or $50 more. That being said I would use a near base on the TRG.

One thing that I keep seeing is that everyone keeps comparing these two guns with factory accessories. You don't have to use the $450 bipod from Sako you can use a Haris. Using the available after market components you can get an TRG for less than you can get the AE.

TRG22 - 2698 (retail)
Harris Bipod - 100
Brake - 200
20moa Base & rings - $150
total - $3148

AIAE w/brake (and picatinny rail): $3696 (retail)
18MOA mount $195
total - $3891

Lets say that you can make the Harris work with the AI so its the same $100. The TRG is still $850 cheaper. Now if you use a quality base and rings that are comparable to the AI mount its ~600 cheaper, but its still cheaper.

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kidkl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So in other words if I want a 20moa or so base (which is pretty standard around here so I am surprised to see some debate about wanting or needing a 20moa base). I need to buy the $195 AI Mount for the AE. Or for the TRG I buy a warne base for $90 and whatever rings (Burris for $50 or Seekins for $140). So its either ~$50 cheaper or $50 more. That being said I would use a near base on the TRG.</div></div>

You can buy the AI mount for $195, or you could buy an aftermarket 20MOA Farrell rail for about $110, and then whatever rings ($50 Burris or $140 Seekins) you want. It's the same thing, except that you don't <span style="font-style: italic">have</span> to buy an aftermarket rail on the AE.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One thing that I keep seeing is that everyone keeps comparing these two guns with factory accessories. You don't have to use the $450 bipod from Sako you can use a Haris. Using the available after market components you can get an TRG for less than you can get the AE.

TRG22 - 2698 (retail)
Harris Bipod - 100
Brake - 200
20moa Base & rings - $150
total - $3148

AIAE w/brake (and picatinny rail): $3696 (retail)
18MOA mount $195
total - $3891

Lets say that you can make the Harris work with the AI so its the same $100. The TRG is still $850 cheaper. Now if you use a quality base and rings that are comparable to the AI mount its ~600 cheaper, but its still cheaper.

</div></div>

As I mentioned before, the TRG is cheaper...if you're basically never buying any accessories for it, and comparing discounted prices to full retail. If all you're buying is the cheapest possible scope mounting system that will give 20 MOA for the TRG, and comparing it to the AE with the factory mount, then yes - the TRG is cheaper. Realistically the difference in actual fully-discounted pricing between a TRG equipped with the cheapest possible aftermarket accessories, and an AE with factory muzzle brake and scope mount, is roughly $500 give or take a few dollars. Buy a couple of spare magazines, and that difference is halved, but you're running factory-quality accessories on the AE, compared to the cheapest aftermarket products possible on the TRG. If that's worth saving a few bucks on a platform, then that's your call. If we compare rifles without muzzle brakes, the numbers swing further in favor towards the AE. Depending on the configurations you want to compare, you can argue the numbers either way...which just proves my point that at the end of the day there isn't as much of a cost difference between the platforms as people think. That initial lower price looks appealing, but it's something of an illusion when you start talking real-world total costs.

At the end of the day, the question you have to ask is <span style="font-style: italic">What do I really want on my rifle, and what do I need?</span> What optics mount do you want? How many spare magazines do you feel comfortable with for your rifle? Regardless of what you do, you're ultimately talking about a complete investment of $4000-5000+ on a quality precision rig after you add the scope, and that's before you start talking money towards reloading equipment and components (or just cases and cases of factory ammo). $100 or $200 in favor of the AE or the TRG is ultimately irrelevant - the real question is which one you're going to be happiest owning and shooting for years to come. If the rifle doesn't fit you, then saving a benjamin or two isn't a savings.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: The TRG accessories argument

$100 or $200 in favor of the AE or the TRG is ultimately irrelevant - the real question is which one you're going to be happiest owning and shooting for years to come. If the rifle doesn't fit you, then saving a benjamin or two isn't a savings

this couldn't be more true. to me worrying about the acc. is like comparing a ferrai and porche and picking based on fuel economy and floor mats. neither of which make a shit bit of difference if you can afford either one.

BUY WHAT YOU LIKE AND WHAT FITS YOU BEST!!! wouldn't you rather spend the money on what you really want than save a buck and wonder if what you really wanted would have been worth the money. eventually you will end up with what you wanted.