This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

#2
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

All from Multnomah county... Of course it's one Sheriff doing the posting, but still, sucks to think how bad it really is there.
 
#3
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

I laughed so damn hard at #12.

Her eyebrows look like a toddler with a sharpie put them on.


Also, 13's face is bent. wtf
 
#5
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Those chicks look like Colorado welfare and trailer park-raised locals.

Too bad Multnomah County has that issue as well.

Man, the chicks here in sausage factory Colorado are ugly...
 
#8
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

I deal with these tards everyday. They get caught looking like that and then swear to god that they havent done meth since last month when they got arrested with a lab in the trunk. "No thats just a pimple i popped and it scabbed over Honestly sir i wouldnt lie to you"
 
#13
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

'Faces of Meth' is another good one.

I ran a target ID stage years ago where I gave shooters the before pictures, and had the after pictures downrange at 100Y.

They had to accurately match up the before's and afters for points. It wasn't easy. I had several pairs that were quite similar.

If this doesn't convince people that drugs rob them of their soul I don't know what will.

--Fargo007
 
#14
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Truckman11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Meth is some bad s$$t</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Propaganda distributed by the man to keep drugs illegal! Everyone knows drugs aren't bad and should be legalized. </div></div>

Actually both of these statements are true. Meth, Crack, and several others are "BadShit", But then so are alcohol, and tobacco. Yet I enjoy a nice glass of red wine after supper, or even a glass of cognac when I can, rarely, afford it. Try telling Switchblade he cant have a cigar.

The greatest problem actually lies in the failure of those who demand freedom for their own vices to deny the same freedom to others. A person should be FREE to do pretty much anything they want to as long as they pay their bills, and dont overtly hurt anyone. Up to and including suicide...if one wants to take his or her own life, I would try to reason with them, but if they seemed reasonable, say in final stages of cancer, and want to end their pain, that is their right.

Likewise, if one wants to do their days work, then return to their home for a glass of wine, a cigar, a joint of marijuana, or a magic mushroom, that should bbe their right. Lets avoid the assnine rhetoric that weed or shrooms lead to other harder drugs, or that they are inherently dangerous. Far and away, the most dangerous drug, the one responaible fot the most deaths, is alcohol.

Though I no longer use it, I smoked marijuana for many years. In that time I built a sucessful business, returned to school (graduated from the University of Virginia with a 3.2 gpa at 45 years old)and had a great life. In that time I can not, in all honesty recall loseing one friend to a marijuana related cause...several to alcohol and tobacco.

I seem to remember in the Pledge of Allegiance the words "With Liberty and Justice for all". Where is the justice in legalizeing the 2 most dangerous drugs, alcohol and tobacco, and makeing illegal the ones that actually have theraputic value. By those i mean Marijuana, LSD and others of that nature. If you do your reasearch youll find tha LSD was actually developed by the Pharmacutical company Sandoz, for use in treatment of pyschological disorders...wasnt until Tim Leary went beserk and ruined it for everyone that it was illegal.It was infact used in many Universities and Hospitals to treat schizophrenia and with good results. Where is the justice in, for inastance, denying heroin to people in the final stages of cancer.

<span style="font-size: 20pt"> THAT IS NOT JUSTICE</span> Justice demands either the legalization of all, or the prohibition of alcohol and tobacco. Justice. But thats a term rarely employed anymore.

I, in no way endorse the reckless use of anything...alcohol, tobacco, pot, acid, crack, firearms or any other. In fact I am in favor of mandatory classes for anyone who wants to use any of the above....just as you must pass certain mminimal requiremmentsto operate a motor vehicle. When I interact with my girlfriends kids and their friends, I just tell them that "Your lungs were made for air, not smoke.You wouldnt piss in the gas tank, would you? Then dont put smoke into your lungs. If you want to try pot, find a safe place with friends you can trust, and try a brownie)". The stomach is made for food, and marijusna is nothing but an herb.

So the only reasonable course to follow is not prohibition...its a proven fact that <span style="font-size: 20pt">prohibition does not work </span> <span style="font-size: 8pt"> </span>, but promoting <span style="font-size: 20pt"> </span> mature and responsible usage <span style="font-size: 8pt"> </span> of all things...be that alcohol, tobacco, weed, or guns. <span style="font-size: 20pt">MATURE AND RESPONSIBLE USAGE </span>.

I got my popcorn and soda...let the show begin.
 
#16
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNOTES</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These are some pretty drastic changes.Meth,crack are pretty bad drugs. </div></div>

100% agreed. The issue is the freedom to do it to yourself. If one pays his bills, and minds his own self, that should be his or her right. I would never encourage it, but defend their right to do it. If they end up on welfare, or robbing convienence stores to support their habit...then by all meanss, they should forfiet that right.

By comparison, a 50 BMG, or a Porshe 911, are some badass machines, which in the wrong hands, used irresponsiblly, can harm a lot of people. Yet we are permitted "responsible usage". Im saying is lets look at JUSTICE for all.
 
#18
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Public policy is the collision of personal rights, collective rights, and economic realities.

Should someone have the personal freedom to drink and drug themselves right into a dirt nap? Conceptually, sure.

The problem is the interface with the collective. I as part of the collective have the NATURAL right not to be snuffed out b/c someone who is high or drunk decides to drive, start a fire or do any of a number of stupid things. Since I am prevented from shooting addicts in the face when I see them anywhere near a car, matches - doing anything other than pretending to be veal - we kinda need some ground rules as to how we are all going to get along in this world.

Enter econ realities - I would have no issue with those who choose to drink / drug their life away - if we didn't have to support them, shot them in the face when they became a public health risk, sterilized them so no one would have to rely on them. Since this isn't the case, we need to establish that while in theory one should have the right drink / drug themselves all they want - the converse to the same theory is that no one else should be made responsible for them. Since that isn't the case we have built an entire economy on tacit support of both sides. The economic inertia of 'Just Say No' is intractable. From a power and social engineering standpoint tell me there isn't benefit to being able to discredit / incarcerate / potentially revoke voting rights - of large segments of the nation. Even disproportionately so based on demographics. Yet at the same time maintain the existing power structure in that if you can pay for it - it is still the "Just-Us" system.

I personally would like to see a hard shift - I am not my brother's keeper and I am tired of being forced to do so.


OR has a med MJ card program - my county (Jackson) leads the state in per capita cards. We have relatively higher rates of unemployment, poverty, lower educational attainment and public schools that are in the bottom 1/3 of the state (OR lags behind the Nation in every category as well). Correlation? I don't have the data to say yes, yet I can say that anecdotals of those that didn't find MJ or other psychedelics to be gateway drugs or were still 'successful' (although the question of 'relative to what order of success had they been clear headed and focused on a goal the entire time?' remains) are likely outnumbered by those who had the opposite experience. On a more practical level in OR if one is an employer it sure does present some issues with drug policy, workman's comp, liability to the ownership for workplace accidents caused by cardholders that injure innocents, and cardholder employee termination.

I have no answers, only opinions and those are only formed having grown weary of our nanny state and bearing false witness to a system that clearly doesn't work.



Good luck
 
#19
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Though I no longer use it, I smoked marijuana for many years.
</div></div>

I always wondered about your bizarre behavior here on the hide. That explains it.
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hippy-1.gif

drugs.jpg
 
#20
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNOTES</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These are some pretty drastic changes.Meth,crack are pretty bad drugs. </div></div>

100% agreed. The issue is the freedom to do it to yourself. If one pays his bills, and minds his own self, that should be his or her right. I would never encourage it, but defend their right to do it. If they end up on welfare, or robbing convienence stores to support their habit...then by all meanss, they should forfiet that right.

By comparison, a 50 BMG, or a Porshe 911, are some badass machines, which in the wrong hands, used irresponsiblly, can harm a lot of people. Yet we are permitted "responsible usage". Im saying is lets look at JUSTICE for all. </div></div>

I understand that your heart is in the right place with the "Justice for All" thing but there are other social consequences for drug use.

I work in a high narcotics area where literally everybody is addicted to some sort of narcotic. What the public doesn't see are the actions of people once they are unable to financially support their habit. Heroin, meth and crack are community destroyers.

Eventually all users are unable to support their habit and will turn to crime. Drugs and addiction account for the vast majority of robberies, burglaries, theft, assault and murder in my area. I have never made an arrest (in my area) where the suspect was not addicted to heroin, meth or crack.

The majority of the SROs in my neighborhood are occupied by people who are addicted to the above listed drugs. I have spoken with these people at length and have a good idea of the social costs involved in keeping them alive and supporting their "right" to do drugs.

A usual 1 bedroom SRO (single residence occupancy) go for approximately 1500-2000 dollars/month. This is subsidized by the government (your money). These same people pay the residual with Government Assistance (GA), it's the PC way of saying Welfare; also, paid by you and I. They now have an (Advantage Card) that allows them to buy food so they no longer have to use food stamps. They receive social programing to help with children and job placement, which in my experience, NEVER works.

This brings up another point; children. We as a society enable these people to reproduce. If you want to see an atrocity, just look at the number of children that have been brought into this world under these circumstances. They come out of the womb drug addicted, HIV and Hep C infected and unwanted except for the financial bonus received by the mother. If you think it's expensive to care for a drug addicted adult you haven't seen anything. These children require extensive/intensive medical care and if they do survive they will most certainly have severe psychological and physiological disabilities. The children of these circumstances either end up in permanent care facilities or on their way to prison. I'm sure there's an anomaly every blue moon and somebody makes it out to be a halfway decent person, but neither I nor anybody I work with has seen it.

These same people also get the paraphernalia to use drugs for free, paid for by you and I yet again. These paraphernalia include, tourniquets, drug cookers, cotton filters for drawing up heroin or meth, and needles. All of this is free.

The overwhelming majority of these people contract HIV, AIDS and Hep C from their drugs use. Weather it's from sharing needles, prostitution or unprotected sex while high, these diseases spread at an alarming rate. There are other diseases that run rampant in these areas which include Tuberculosis and other types of bugs/parasites.

All of these diseases require medical care for which you and I pay. Everything from the ambulance ride, ER treatment to rehabilitation of the disease costs the taxpayer huge amounts of money. These people draw from an already drying well of money which will eventually leave it dry for the person who deserves it.

Police services and incarceration also require a significant amount of taxpayer money. I have never seen an addict that does not have an arrest record. In my experience, after a person becomes addicted to one of the above listed drugs, there will be a point when they cannot financially support their habit. This subsequently leads to crimes such as, theft, burglary, robbery, prostitution, assault and murder.

I cannot put enough emphasis on the amount of money it takes to socially "care" for these people. I went to the call of a dead person one day and spoke with his gay lover on scene. The room was covered in cockroaches and bed bugs. There were burns all over the bed and floor from where they were cooking their drugs and the room smelled of heroin. There was also paraphernalia strewn through the room. Feces and urine were also strewn and smeared all over the walls. The gay lover told me that he paid $1600 for the room. He told me that $1200 was subsidized and that he had to use his GA (Welfare) check to cover the rest. He also told me that he had roughly $600 of free money to spend on drugs a month. When he runs out of money he steals and "does what it takes" to get more drugs. He explained that he didn't need to use the Welfare for food as there were enough people handing out free food in the area (this includes soup kitchens etc). He stated that he had end stage AIDS and Hepatitis C that required him to be in the hospital at least once a week. He didn't know the medical bill for his treatment because he didn't care.

To put this in perspective there are thousands of these types of rooms in the neighborhood. Times that by rent, welfare, food, medical care, social programing, psychologists, police, fire, paramedic, and incarceration costs and it's no wonder that this country is taking a nose dive.

I have also been into thousands of these room and 100% of them have been dirty, unkept, cockroach infested and disease ridden. I can confidently say that this is because of drug use.

I have seen peoples lives and physical appearance degrade because of drug use and I have seen many reasons that got them hooked on drugs. The frat boy that partied too much, the drug dealer that sampled too much of his product, the gangster that sampled too much of his product, the person who was injured in an accident that got hooked on pain killers and later heroin etc, the hooker that started hooking and used drugs after, the person that was raped and used it as an escape; I have seen all of these and more.

I do not support the "freedom" to use these drugs. You cannot ask somebody to become unaddicted. By the time they are committing crime to support their habit, it is too late. We will then pay for them for the rest of their lives.

Also, please understand that LSD may have been used for the treatment of certain schizo-affective disorders but that doesn't make it okay for everybody else to do. I have seen a lot of people lose their minds to LSD. LSD is also cut with methamphetamine (just like extacy) which will eventually lead to another psychological/physiological component.

As for alcohol and marijuana use; I can agree with you here. I think that both drugs should be legal to use when taken responsibly.

Alcohol has it's own set of problems that I won't go into as to not deviate from the above writing. I do think it is noteworthy that Alcohol can cause problems but the majority of those problems does not fall to the honest taxpayer; at least in comparison to the drugs listed above.

We pay much more than you can imagine when it comes drug users. They are a burden on our society that only reform can cure. I wish people could see what I see when I go to work. Unfortunately, I believe that we will continue to care for these people and enable them to continue their drug use; right into our countries grave.
 
#21
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

I was one of those kids bowman. I ,fortunately was not born with any disease, but a many of them were. Because these type of people were who my mother associated with, these were the people and children of that I was surrounded with. I have seen first hand how they are a blight and a drain on everyone and everything around them. Because of this I will NEVER agree with the view that these things should just be unregulated. There is no perfect system. All of these purist ideals look great, sound great, and function wonderfully in a controlled environment. But when you enter the most uncontrollable variable on our tiny little planes, humans, all that idealistic stuff starts to fall down.
 
#22
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNOTES</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These are some pretty drastic changes.Meth,crack are pretty bad drugs. </div></div>

100% agreed. The issue is the freedom to do it to yourself. If one pays his bills, and minds his own self, that should be his or her right. I would never encourage it, but defend their right to do it. If they end up on welfare, or robbing convienence stores to support their habit...then by all meanss, they should forfiet that right.

By comparison, a 50 BMG, or a Porshe 911, are some badass machines, which in the wrong hands, used irresponsiblly, can harm a lot of people. Yet we are permitted "responsible usage". Im saying is lets look at JUSTICE for all. </div></div>

I understand that your heart is in the right place with the "Justice for All" thing but there are other social consequences for drug use.

I work in a high narcotics area where literally everybody is addicted to some sort of narcotic. What the public doesn't see are the actions of people once they are unable to financially support their habit. Heroin, meth and crack are community destroyers.

Eventually all users are unable to support their habit and will turn to crime. Drugs and addiction account for the vast majority of robberies, burglaries, theft, assault and murder in my area. I have never made an arrest (in my area) where the suspect was not addicted to heroin, meth or crack.

The majority of the SROs in my neighborhood are occupied by people who are addicted to the above listed drugs. I have spoken with these people at length and have a good idea of the social costs involved in keeping them alive and supporting their "right" to do drugs.

A usual 1 bedroom SRO (single residence occupancy) go for approximately 1500-2000 dollars/month. This is subsidized by the government (your money). These same people pay the residual with Government Assistance (GA), it's the PC way of saying Welfare; also, paid by you and I. They now have an (Advantage Card) that allows them to buy food so they no longer have to use food stamps. They receive social programing to help with children and job placement, which in my experience, NEVER works.

This brings up another point; children. We as a society enable these people to reproduce. If you want to see an atrocity, just look at the number of children that have been brought into this world under these circumstances. They come out of the womb drug addicted, HIV and Hep C infected and unwanted except for the financial bonus received by the mother. If you think it's expensive to care for a drug addicted adult you haven't seen anything. These children require extensive/intensive medical care and if they do survive they will most certainly have severe psychological and physiological disabilities. The children of these circumstances either end up in permanent care facilities or on their way to prison. I'm sure there's an anomaly every blue moon and somebody makes it out to be a halfway decent person, but neither I nor anybody I work with has seen it.

These same people also get the paraphernalia to use drugs for free, paid for by you and I yet again. These paraphernalia include, tourniquets, drug cookers, cotton filters for drawing up heroin or meth, and needles. All of this is free.

The overwhelming majority of these people contract HIV, AIDS and Hep C from their drugs use. Weather it's from sharing needles, prostitution or unprotected sex while high, these diseases spread at an alarming rate. There are other diseases that run rampant in these areas which include Tuberculosis and other types of bugs/parasites.

All of these diseases require medical care for which you and I pay. Everything from the ambulance ride, ER treatment to rehabilitation of the disease costs the taxpayer huge amounts of money. These people draw from an already drying well of money which will eventually leave it dry for the person who deserves it.

Police services and incarceration also require a significant amount of taxpayer money. I have never seen an addict that does not have an arrest record. In my experience, after a person becomes addicted to one of the above listed drugs, there will be a point when they cannot financially support their habit. This subsequently leads to crimes such as, theft, burglary, robbery, prostitution, assault and murder.

I cannot put enough emphasis on the amount of money it takes to socially "care" for these people. I went to the call of a dead person one day and spoke with his gay lover on scene. The room was covered in cockroaches and bed bugs. There were burns all over the bed and floor from where they were cooking their drugs and the room smelled of heroin. There was also paraphernalia strewn through the room. Feces and urine were also strewn and smeared all over the walls. The gay lover told me that he paid $1600 for the room. He told me that $1200 was subsidized and that he had to use his GA (Welfare) check to cover the rest. He also told me that he had roughly $600 of free money to spend on drugs a month. When he runs out of money he steals and "does what it takes" to get more drugs. He explained that he didn't need to use the Welfare for food as there were enough people handing out free food in the area (this includes soup kitchens etc). He stated that he had end stage AIDS and Hepatitis C that required him to be in the hospital at least once a week. He didn't know the medical bill for his treatment because he didn't care.

To put this in perspective there are thousands of these types of rooms in the neighborhood. Times that by rent, welfare, food, medical care, social programing, psychologists, police, fire, paramedic, and incarceration costs and it's no wonder that this country is taking a nose dive.

I have also been into thousands of these room and 100% of them have been dirty, unkept, cockroach infested and disease ridden. I can confidently say that this is because of drug use.

I have seen peoples lives and physical appearance degrade because of drug use and I have seen many reasons that got them hooked on drugs. The frat boy that partied too much, the drug dealer that sampled too much of his product, the gangster that sampled too much of his product, the person who was injured in an accident that got hooked on pain killers and later heroin etc, the hooker that started hooking and used drugs after, the person that was raped and used it as an escape; I have seen all of these and more.

I do not support the "freedom" to use these drugs. You cannot ask somebody to become unaddicted. By the time they are committing crime to support their habit, it is too late. We will then pay for them for the rest of their lives.

Also, please understand that LSD may have been used for the treatment of certain schizo-affective disorders but that doesn't make it okay for everybody else to do. I have seen a lot of people lose their minds to LSD. LSD is also cut with methamphetamine (just like extacy) which will eventually lead to another psychological/physiological component.

As for alcohol and marijuana use; I can agree with you here. I think that both drugs should be legal to use when taken responsibly.

Alcohol has it's own set of problems that I won't go into as to not deviate from the above writing. I do think it is noteworthy that Alcohol can cause problems but the majority of those problems does not fall to the honest taxpayer; at least in comparison to the drugs listed above.

We pay much more than you can imagine when it comes drug users. They are a burden on our society that only reform can cure. I wish people could see what I see when I go to work. Unfortunately, I believe that we will continue to care for these people and enable them to continue their drug use; right into our countries grave. </div></div>


Mostly right, well put, and... you're a "Occupation: Garbage Man "?
 
#23
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Completely right, well put, and... you're a "Occupation: Garbage Man "? </div></div>

HAHA! Too funny. I'm surprised that you caught that. Yes, figuratively, I am a garbage man, social worker, psychologist, first responder, taxi driver, direction giver, landlord, street sweeper etc. My paychecks, however, do say police officer. Good catch
wink.gif
 
#24
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Oh, one thing I forgot to add to my above post. I was a Paramedic for 4 years and have made the same observations as I do now as a Police Officer. I only say this to give foundation to my statements made by medical care in relation to drug addicted patients.
 
#25
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
CNOTES said:
These are some pretty drastic changes.Meth,crack are pretty bad drugs. </div></div>



quote]



Bowman, thanks for your well written and insightful post. Beelieve it or not I generally agree with you(that most of these substances are garbage andshouold be avoided). Where I most strongly disagree is that prohibition can stop it. It was proven in the 20's 30's that prohibition just doesnt work.

One definition of insanity is "To keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome". I dont pretend to have The Solution". I do know that the approach we are taking is not working and to continue to crimialze millions of people pursueing a policy that doesnt work, is by definition, insanity.

RESPECTFULLY, let me ask....With all the arrests you have made, have yo reduced the problem by even 1 percent. Id be willing to bet a dime to a dollar that as soon as you make an arrest and clean out a meth house, its filled up again within days. this policy doesnt work. All youve done is put another person in jail and we know that cost about $30,000 per year minimum. for that one can send 2 pople to a major state university all costs included. though i know thatis seeing it through rose collored glasses, I hope you get what Im driving.

As I stated, i dont have THE SOLUTION, but we need a better one. PROHIBITION DOESNT WORK..


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nly205</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was one of those kids bowman. I ,fortunately was not born with any disease, but a many of them were. Because these type of people were who my mother associated with, these were the people and children of that I was surrounded with. I have seen first hand how they are a blight and a drain on everyone and everything around them. Because of this I will NEVER agree with the view that these things should just be unregulated. There is no perfect system. All of these purist ideals look great, sound great, and function wonderfully in a controlled environment. But when you enter the most uncontrollable variable on our tiny little planes, humans, all that idealistic stuff starts to fall down. </div></div>

Glad you came through all that healthy. tha one FACT that I continue to reiterate, is no purist idel, and that is that Prohibition doesnt work. Rather than continue the insanity we should find antother way.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vwhugger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Goldie said:
Though I no longer use it, I smoked marijuana for many years.
</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vwhugger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Goldie said:
Though I no longer use it, I smoked marijuana for many years.
</div></div>

I always wondered about your bizarre behavior here on the hide. That explains it.
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hippy-1.gif

drugs.jpg
</div></div>

Taken out of context but with the smile. Remember, paybacks are hell. Pleas excuse the above spelling errors. 'with 3 quotes in this one I just dont want to go back through them all.
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#26
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, one thing I forgot to add to my above post. I was a Paramedic for 4 years and have made the same observations as I do now as a Police Officer. I only say this to give foundation to my statements made by medical care in relation to drug addicted patients. </div></div>

and I forgot to say, Be careful out there, bro.
 
#27
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Bowman, thanks for your well written and insightful post. Beelieve it or not I generally agree with you(that most of these substances are garbage andshouold be avoided). Where I most strongly disagree is that prohibition can stop it. It was proven in the 20's 30's that prohibition just doesnt work.

One definition of insanity is "To keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome". I dont pretend to have The Solution". I do know that the approach we are taking is not working and to continue to crimialze millions of people pursueing a policy that doesnt work, is by definition, insanity.

RESPECTFULLY, let me ask....With all the arrests you have made, have yo reduced the problem by even 1 percent. Id be willing to bet a dime to a dollar that as soon as you make an arrest and clean out a meth house, its filled up again within days. this policy doesnt work. All youve done is put another person in jail and we know that cost about $30,000 per year minimum. for that one can send 2 pople to a major state university all costs included. though i know thatis seeing it through rose collored glasses, I hope you get what Im driving.

As I stated, i dont have THE SOLUTION, but we need a better one. PROHIBITION DOESNT WORK..

</div></div>

The quotes got kinda messed up in the above post. I believe that I am quoting Goldie but please correct me if I am wrong as I don't want to misquote anybody.

Goldie, you are absolutely 100% correct about prohibition. It has never worked and it never will work.

I believe that the "war on drugs" was initiated because of the blight that comes with drugs associated with the fact that thousands die in the process from manufacture to sale. I'm pretty sure that we both can agree that the phrase "war on drugs" is synonymous with prohibition. I believe that the manufacture, distribution, use and possession of heroin, meth, cocaine, crack and their derivatives should be criminalized in an attempt to minimize the recruitment of new users. I also believe that we need to subsides the crime with a reformation of social help, post addiction.

Drug programs are effective at rehabilitation as prisons are at rehabilitating criminals. Neither work unless a person has their own inner drive to free themselves from the bonds of a horrible life.

In response to:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

RESPECTFULLY, let me ask....With all the arrests you have made, have yo reduced the problem by even 1 percent. Id be willing to bet a dime to a dollar that as soon as you make an arrest and clean out a meth house, its filled up again within days. this policy doesnt work. All youve done is put another person in jail and we know that cost about $30,000 per year minimum. for that one can send 2 pople to a major state university all costs included. though i know thatis seeing it through rose collored glasses, I hope you get what Im driving.

</div></div>

I wish that I could say that the arrests I have made have reduced the problem by 1%. I'd be lying if I told you that they did.

I will give you a quick and dirty insight to how crime and punishment work in my city. It should be noted that I am really trying to keep this short.

The jails/prisons are overpopulated. This creates a huge incentive for the DA to make deals. I do not blame the DA for making deals. I do not blame the Jails/Prisons for overpopulation. I understand the deal-making that goes on in the court room. The simple matter is that we do not have the room to incarcerate everybody who is guilty of a crime especially if the crime only involves the mere possession, sales or use of a prohibited drug.

I will give an example of a common daily arrest. A police officer views a narcotics transaction. The police officer places the dealer under arrest for narcotics sales and takes him to jail and books all evidence respectively. The dealer is on Parole AND Probation (I'll get to that later). The dealer goes to court and pleas guilty for drug sales and is released on extended probation. The DA wins because he/she got a guilty plea. The defendant wins because he is back out selling drugs. The jail/prison wins because they do not have to house another individual. Society loses because the dealer is now continuing to sell (amongst other illegal activities including violence).

Where I work, prohibition does not seem to be in effect, especially for the end user. Most drug offenders are out of jail before we (police officers) sit down to do paperwork at the end of the shift. To top it off, because our system is the way it is, the majority of drug dealers come from out of county to sell drugs in our city. They do this because they know that the constipation of our criminal system will not allow for their incarceration. They are continually placed on extended probation in lieu of jail time. I used to be able to call up a Parolee's Parole Officer and violate their parole just for infraction of the law. Now, for whatever reason, I can only send somebody back to prison (violate their parole) if they are involved in a violent felony. This is ridiculous because a violent felony (hopefully) would send them to prison anyways.

Our criminal system is in a sad state of affairs. Again, to answer your above question, I have not been able to make a 1% difference in the community that I police. I need the help of the community and the state.

Unfortunately, there are a few "good", "law abiding" folks that are held hostage in my community. They cannot be vocal for fear of retaliation. There are a number of times that I will get a "thank you" while stuffing a drug dealer into the back of my car. The "thank you" will usually come from an older resident in a manner which was humorous at first but has since saddened me. The person "thanking" will not look or make eye contact with me. They will keep walking by me and the "thank you" comes from the corner of their mouth in a tone that you will only catch if you are really making an effort to hear. These people are why I get up and go to work everyday. We chase, fight, get yelled at, get spit on, get injured because the dealers know there will be no criminal repercussion.

All of this associated with my initial post is a communal nightmare of which boarders spread like a plague.

The only way I can see this problem fixed is a brutal one but I welcome any alternative ideas and suggestions. The only way that I can see this fixed is to cut the social care given to those who are addicted to drugs. This associated with drug criminalization, I believe, would end this plague.

I know that some people would consider me a monster for the thought but I believe that it is the only way. This would cause a lot of people to die and care would have to be withheld for those that are addicted. It is a true test of humanity to turn away a human being in need of care just because they are addicted to a drug, however, it would save the rest of us. At the rate of new users, we cannot sustain care of all people who need it.

My question: Is it fair to give addicted people care and freedom when good people are hostages in those same communities? I understand that people need help but the majority of addicted people just want help to get more drugs. This creates a demand. The dealer creates the supply and unfortunately it isn't a simple business transaction. The crime surrounding drug use is epic in proportion and the amount of money needed to fix collateral issues created by users is astronomical.

A drug dealer on the street can easily make thousands of dollars a day. To top it off they don't pay taxes and collect welfare because they don't have a job on paper. The sad part is a teacher struggles to make $40k a year.

At what point do we stop paying all this money for addicts? If I was in charge of social spending, veterans, schools, infrastructure, jails, prisons, fire fighters, paramedics, nurses, and police officers would receive the bulk of funds. Those are all things that I want to pay into.

Throwing my money at a drug addict is fruitless and enabling. Now it's so bad that they actually feel entitled to this money.

I wish all voters and pro-social-program advocates could come with me to work and see what I see. I am at ground zero and observe, first hand, the advantage that people take of our current system.

Prohibition doesn't work, I agree. What do we do when the very thing that Prohibition prohibits is sinking our nation?
 
#28
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, one thing I forgot to add to my above post. I was a Paramedic for 4 years and have made the same observations as I do now as a Police Officer. I only say this to give foundation to my statements made by medical care in relation to drug addicted patients. </div></div>

and I forgot to say, Be careful out there, bro. </div></div>

Thx bro, I will! I just want to clarify that I totally agree with what you said in your above posts. In my lengthy post I try to offer alternatives. I'd be interested to know if you agree or disagree with it.
 
#29
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Kool cigarettes and budweiser for about 25 yrs would probaly took me out if I hadn't quit about 20 yrs ago, THANK GOD
 
#30
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, one thing I forgot to add to my above post. I was a Paramedic for 4 years and have made the same observations as I do now as a Police Officer. I only say this to give foundation to my statements made by medical care in relation to drug addicted patients. </div></div>

and I forgot to say, Be careful out there, bro. </div></div>

Thx bro, I will! I just want to clarify that I totally agree with what you said in your above posts. In my lengthy post I try to offer alternatives. I'd be interested to know if you agree or disagree with it. </div></div>

I dont want to spend all the energy typting to examine it in detail as there hav been volumes weritten on the subject but:

After years of thought, and study, I honestly believe that crimilization is one of the roots of all the other problems you noted. Unfortunately, most of the peoplle you described, in urine soaked, rat infested rooms, would be there anyway. The problem is that a person who will abuse a substance, any substance, has some deeper psychological problem that causes the abuse. Some are obese just because they are addicted to eating. The substance is just the fruit born to a corrupted tree. Every weed has a root. Cut the weed it springs back multiplied. Pull the roots and you rid the field of the weeds. If it werent dope, it would be alcohol. If you get them off alcohol it will be something else. Honestly, often times I think the substance abuse is a substitute for suicide, or mental collapse for other reasons. Some people are just born with or develop chemical or psychological malfunctions (just as some are born with a club foot or develop cncer)...the abusive nature is just an attepmt to deal with the pain and fear that problem produces. Im no liberqal softy....I call a spade a spade, but incarcerating someone for a problem that essentally psychological or physically caused is not only unjust, its exacerbates the problem.

If its decriminalized you at least eliminate the stigma of being a criminal and haveing a criminal record. And the tax money could be used to help rather than harm further. As youve said in your area, and I would add in most areas, jail just doesnt work...the system is breaking down. Imagine the monetary cost to actually incarcerate all those probated ....It would break the system and still not cure the problem....90% of those would just get healthy at our expense (in jail) then be back in the crack house within two months of release.. So you admit that what you are doing doesnt work....why do more of it. If we spent 10% of the money we spend on the legal system to pay you guys to fight a war its proven we cant win, and incarcerate all the losers in that war, on isolateing the problem and cureing THE PROBLEM it would be a lot cheaper and more humane. We beat polio, We beat malaria. We beat the Germans in WWII. I believe we can beat this one if we stop fighting the wrong enemy.

Secondarily, legalization would put the dealers out of business. If one could go to a pharmacy and buy what they wanted they could avoid the associations with the types that they have to in order to procure their drug. And again it could be taxed, and at least pure.I think that is largely why meth/crack is so much more debilitating than say, alcohol. One is forced to deal with other meth/crack heads in order to procure, and the negative energy just feeds upon itself. It would cause a major kink in the cartels, though those parasites are resilient and would find new ways to polute the world ...just like the Italian/Sicilian mobs before them.

As for as just letting them die....I believe in trying to help once, even twice or three time if I know a person is really really trying to change. But there is a point where you just have to say no more. I have enough trouble just keeping my own boat afloat...I cant float yours too. Its hard and cold, and Im not sure it would do anything to cure the problem, to cut the root, but it would at least clean up a bunch of rotting fruit. Graves are cheaper than prison cell, and in many cases I think more humane.

Unfortunately we'ed lose some like our friend above who said he came out of that...but we are loseing them any way. God help me, I dont have a solution. Mabey he does. But I KNOW that what we are doing is only makeing it worse.

Keep thinking. Goldie BTW, you didnt say whih city/area your from. somehow I get the feeling it might be the pacific nw.
 
#31
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Good thoughts Goldie.

I can understand your train of thought when it comes to legalizing drugs and then regulating them via government. I also understand what you are saying when addressing drug use and criminalization.

I believe that drugs will create problems no matter who sells them or regulates them. Once people run out of money to support their habit they will turn to other means of obtaining the funding for drugs. This includes fraud, theft and robbery. Users will also suffer the same medical fate they do now which includes disease, psychosis, malnutrition, sores, infections etc., which will cost the same amount of social money. They, no doubt, will also obtain housing and other social needs at cost to the taxpayer.

I do like the fact that government regulated and distributed drugs would be taxed. This would help buffer the negative impact that addicts have on our society. You also had a good point about jamming up cartels etc. Unfortunately, I believe that people of current caliber would subsequently feel entitled to "damages" incurred by drug use and attempt to hold the government and their distributors liable. People nowadays love to bite the hand that feeds them.

We as a society have endured great disease and disaster. I don't think anything is more powerful and difficult to overcome than addiction. People will continue smoking cigarettes when they have lungs full of cancer. Men who are not gay will suck dick for a hit of drugs. There are guys that crawl around on their hands and knees in my district, searching the cracks in the sidewalk for crack. Their hands and knees are as black as tar and they have not showered in months. They will piss and shit in their pants. They will load pigeon shit into their glass pipe and smoke it to see if it was a crack crumb. All of their teeth fall out and they don't care. My point being, not even animals will do these things.

I'm okay with people just doing drugs and abiding all laws. (Off topic, I have never gotten into a fight with somebody who was high on heroin or its derivative, or marijuana.) Unfortunately and inevitably they will turn to crime in one form or another and they will cost the taxpayer tons of money.

The problem with drugs is that they are mind altering and have a high potential to cause psychiatric breaks. Dealing with a "crazy" addict is a lot more dangerous than dealing with a sane one. A person who develops a "break" or exacerbates an existing psychiatric condition becomes disabled and uncureable, resulting in the need for society to take care of them.

Please understand that my frustration is not aimed at anybody here. I wish I had a good answer but I don't. I will just continue to make arrests and attempt to show people what I see in hopes that they can make more informed decisions. Also, rest assured that people who are arrested for drug only offenses ALWAYS have a rap sheet that includes non drug crimes.
 
#33
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

At heart I'm a libertarian and believe we should face up to the consequences of our own actions and our choices should be as unfettered by the beliefs and bias of others as possible. But as someone who also has started to rekindle a long dead faith, I can't help but think these are the modern day lepers of our society. It's shocking to see such miserably broken lives and souls. "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick."

I pray they and others like them find a way back.
 
#34
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At heart I'm a libertarian and believe we should face up to the consequences of our own actions and our choices should be as unfettered by the beliefs and bias of others as possible. But as someone who also has started to rekindle a long dead faith, I can't help but think these are the modern day lepers of our society. It's shocking to see such miserably broken lives and souls. "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick."

I pray they and others like them find a way back.




</div></div>

Thank you ffor that deep in intuitive insight. When all our opinions are done, they remain at very least, human beings, deserving of respect. Im certain none of them said..."today i will become a drug addict". The question remains, how humane are we?

Im not so sure about "faith", I prefer facts, but I understand and wish you good speed in your journey.
 
#36
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Drug courts

Feb 24th 2011 | GAINESVILLE, HALL COUNTY, GEORGIA

ONE was an intravenous drug user who had slept outdoors on a trampoline. Another was a wife and mother who started drinking at 14 and turned to meth at 49. A third was a college graduate and licensed pilot who left home for months on end. All are felons. Along with five others, at a graduation ceremony in the sanctuary of a Baptist church in north Georgia recently, all received praise and a hug from Judge Jason Deal and handshakes from both prosecution and defence lawyers.

They are among the 358 people who have “graduated” from the drug court in Hall County—one of 28 such courts across the state and roughly 2,500 around the country. Courts differ in whom they accept. Hall County’s participants cannot have more than one felony conviction, while most participants in Fulton County’s (Atlanta) drug court have committed a number. But they operate similarly.

Participants undergo intensive treatment instead of prison. Judges receive special training. Rather than simply resolving a case and sentencing the offender, they preside over teams that include prosecutors and defence lawyers, police, treatment and job-training counsellors and case workers. Participants are drug-tested often, and appear regularly before a judge, who sanctions or rewards them for their behaviour. Rewards include praise and small tokens such as sweets and gift tokens. Sanctions can range from chastisement to a brief stay in jail. They can also be more creative: a judge in Forsyth County’s juvenile court gave a teenager caught in bed with his girlfriend a week’s care of an electronic baby doll that had to be rocked, fed and changed.

All of this may sound paternalistic, but it works. A statewide study in Georgia found the two-year recidivism rate among drug-court participants was 7%, compared with 15% for those on probation alone and 29% for drug-users who served time in state prison. A number of similar studies conducted in drug courts around the country show similar results. Hall County’s recidivism rate is 4.7%, and nearly 98% of its scheme’s participants are employed. Jail keeps addicts off the street, but does little more than that. Drug courts, by contrast, focus on teaching addicts how to stay clean, and how to do things others take for granted: get up every morning, show up to work on time every day, pay their bills. Prison has a punitive as well as a rehabilitative aspect, and some have been cool to drug courts for that reason, seeing them as coddling criminals. But criminals will eventually return to society. Better they return well-adjusted rather than hardened and still addicted.

In any event, such schemes not only help the participant, but save money. In Georgia a drug-court sentence costs over $10,000 less than a prison sentence—no small number in a state that operates the fifth-largest prison system in the country, spending one in every 17 of its budgetary dollars on incarceration and parole. A national study by the Urban Institute, a think-tank, found that drug courts produce $2.21 in benefits (reduced crime and costs of incarceration) for every $1 spent; expanding their reach to cover all arrestees would raise the level of benefits to $3.36.

For this reason drug courts are winning plaudits across the political spectrum. Barack Obama mentioned them favourably in a recent interview, citing them as part of a growing range of efforts to treat drugs “as a public health problem”. And when Nathan Deal was inaugurated last month as Georgia’s new governor, he praised them for their efficacy and cost-effectiveness. In fact, he was sworn in by a drug-court judge: his son Jason, from Hall County.
http://www.economist.com/node/18233647
 
#37
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> drug-court sentence costs over $10,000 less than a prison sentence
</div></div>

That's all I needed to hear.
 
#38
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Regarding drug courts. The city in which I work, employs a drug court system. As a matter of fact, my city has a lot of "cutting edge" drug help centers. They even have homes that are designed to create support groups while teaching the "residents" important interpersonal and job skills.

I have spoken at length with a lot of these people that are "graduates" of drug court and other drug programs. These people tell me that drug court creates a drive to stay off of drugs because they do not want to go to jail. They don't want to go to jail because of the lack of availability of drugs.

The most successful type of drug programs, in my experience, are the "live in" ones. All "residents" of the house provide a support structure which is huge to the human psyche. There are strict rules of "the house" that will, if broken, get a "resident" expelled. I have been to these houses and spoken with the "residents" for the mere purpose of educating myself. In my opinion, I believe that these houses are the most effective drug rehabilitation.

Another thing that people neglect to acknowledge is the fact that addictions are a life long disease. Addicts struggle everyday to remain drug free, even after years of being clean and all it takes is one moment of weakness to relapse. Trust me when I tell you that I give addicts a ton of credit for just trying to remain drug free.

The majority of addicts on the street that I talk to have been through drug court and the live-in programs. Don't be fooled by the drug court statistics as they measure success at the completion of the program and not long term success. Drug court is only a means for somebody not to be sent to prison. All of the addicts that I speak with on the street tell me the same thing. They keep their nose clean during the program to avoid jail and then it's right back to drug use.

I know it seems like I "poo poo" every suggested solution that has been coming up. The only reason I do is because I have experience with these people. They are the people I work with and work for. They tell me what does and does not work. When I first started my job, trust me, I was completely optimistic about all these programs cleaning up people's lives and the street.

Let me tell you guys something else about addicts. The majority of them are extremely cool. They will be candid with their inner most secrets and tell a respectful cop anything and everything about their life. Back when I was a trainee, my FTOs would bring me to a bunch of addicts and let me have hours worth of conversation with them. Even today, I continue to take interest in ALL of their lives. I know back stories on hundreds of addicts in my district. I have bounced ideas off of all of them and still attempt to help all of them. The only time that an addict will lie to me is when they have dope on them that they don't want me to find. Let's be honest, almost 100% of the "law-abiding" people I pull over lie to me.

After all of my contact with these people, I have learned one thing for sure. No addict will ever get clean unless they really want to. No drug court will open an addicts eyes.

The best results I have seen are the "live-in" rehabilitation centers that addicts can go to when they are ready. I'd love to throw a stat at you to show how effective they can be but it'd be a lie. I know and like plenty of addicts that have failed all programs despite their desires to become "clean".

In reference to the "drug-court sentence costs over $10,000 less than a prison sentence" statement. This statement assumes that an offender would be sentenced to actual prison time. This does not happen with a mere possession case. Mere possession is just a probation sentence that does not include prison time.

In regards to a drug seller. When a drug dealer is arrested they are actually eligible for drug court. There are a lot of drug dealers that don't use drugs. In lieu of jail they complete "drug court", piss clean and laugh all the way back to their corner. To top it off there's a lot of social back slapping at the awesome statistic generated by the "successful" drug court completion.

If anybody has any questions, please don't hesitate to post or send me a PM. I am not making a conscious effort to be a jerk here. I am merely trying to show you guys what I see and hear.
 
#40
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Bowman,

Not that I think you Poohpooh every post and suggestion. I think your telling of what you have seen and experienced in a big city like the one Im guessing you live in. I wonder if the situation is different in more rural areas. Being a country boy birth, and later by choice, personally I feel like major cities are traps at best and can tend to lock people into a repetitive lifestyle just because they have no where else to turn. In the country or more rural areas there is less dense population and more room to move about. Not saying ts is so, just wondering.

As we have agreed, what is being done just doesnt work. I would like to hear some constructive suggestions, however, based on what yo've learned.
 
#41
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bowman,

Not that I think you Poohpooh every post and suggestion. I think your telling of what you have seen and experienced in a big city like the one Im guessing you live in. I wonder if the situation is different in more rural areas. Being a country boy birth, and later by choice, personally I feel like major cities are traps at best and can tend to lock people into a repetitive lifestyle just because they have no where else to turn. In the country or more rural areas there is less dense population and more room to move about. Not saying ts is so, just wondering.

As we have agreed, what is being done just doesnt work. I would like to hear some constructive suggestions, however, based on what yo've learned. </div></div>

I work in a decent sized city that is probably as far removed from a rural area as possible. I work in a place where people will not give you the time of day even if you beg for it. During my work week, I stay at a house that I rent which is near the city that I work for. I also have a house up in the mountains where I stay during my weekends. The difference between the "city" and the "country" is like night and day.

When I went looking to buy a house up in the country, I was shocked that people were waving at me as we passed each other in cars. I kept thinking that I had a flat tire or something and continued to try and figure out what was wrong with my truck. People said "hello" to me as I walked through the local market. After buying my house in the same area, I went to the hardware store for some items. The cashier of the store knew I was a police officer and knew where I worked. She already had a paper from that city delivered to her so she could give it to me. While standing in the same line, I told my girlfriend that I needed to buy some firewood. A lady standing behind me in line called her son and had 2 cords delivered to my house the next day for a great price. I later went to fill my truck up with gas and ran into a guy that knew my name. He introduced himself and I learned that he was a retired LAPD Officer of 20 plus years. I returned home and observed a pickup truck driving down my driveway. The gentleman exited his vehicle and identified himself as my neighbor. Turns out he is a retired LASD Deputy turned gun smith.

These are just a few of the encounters that I have had since I purchased my house in a rural area. The people there are first class and have a set of values that are second to none. These people will give you the shirts off of their backs. They work hard and give without expectation. I grew up in urban areas and have never had the pleasure of taking part in a rural community.

The reason why I explain all this is because I do believe that an addicts chances of recovery would be exponentially higher in a place like I describe above. A good community is capable of providing a GENUINE support structure. I hesitate to say this because the last thing I want is the export of crime into rural areas. I also acknowledge that rural areas are not free from intrinsic crime.

You are absolutely correct when you note that inner cities can be traps. A person that is "on the wagon" will easily fall off just by remaining in the area where I work. It is almost impossible to be a recovering addict and reside in my district because the problem is dangled right in their face at every turn. The city is also cold and uninviting which I'm sure causes an overwhelming feeling of exile and isolation...a trait that will assist absolutely nobody.

Our city does have a program that will send a "homeless" person to a city of their choosing. Most of the time, it's a place where the person grew up or a place where their family lives. It's only a one time opportunity meaning that we just don't send people away for vacation. Another caveat to the program is that somebody has to vouch for you on the other end, ie, family, minister etc. Now here is a statistic that I cannot speak to. I have had conversation with people that took advantage of this program and returned to my area, but the majority that I see leave do not come back. Personally, I would be interested to see how their recovery efforts endured.

This is probably the most effective way to successfully recover. Get out of the place where drugs are so readily available and go to a place of comfort and support. Unfortunately, the cost of a study to determine the efficacy of this approach would be pretty high especially if long term success was to be measured.

One thing we have to always remember, an addict will NEVER recover unless THEY want to.
 
#42
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Bow, Thats prettymuch how it is where I grew up and also where I live now. I know everyone at my local PO by name. When I was out of town ffor a couple of months and my box rent expired, one of the girls knew it was an oversight on my part and held the box for me til I got back. I gave her (and the whole office) a nice box of choclates for Easter. My neighbor, who is also my friend, helped me put on a new roof, and I helped him get together his firewood. Thats just how it is. Not that we rednecks cant be massive assholes as well, but its just different...people look each oher in the eye and smile. Honestly, and respectfully, I dont understand how folks live packed on top of one another. but Irespect there right to it. Different Strokes.

Im betting your looking forward to the day you can get to the cabin full time.
 
#43
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im betting your looking forward to the day you can get to the cabin full time. </div></div>

It's what keeps me going during the week. The dread I feel when leaving is almost tangible.

I lose hope in mankind when I'm in the city and gain it when I'm in the country. Too bad the city folk far outnumber the country folk.

The second I think I can comfortably retire I'll be in the country full time. I have even considered transferring to the SO in the country but I don't think it would be wise. Ignorance is bliss....I don't want to know the bad people of the town I live in....just the good people.
 
#44
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im betting your looking forward to the day you can get to the cabin full time. </div></div>

It's what keeps me going during the week. The dread I feel when leaving is almost tangible.

I lose hope in mankind when I'm in the city and gain it when I'm in the country. Too bad the city folk far outnumber the country folk.

The second I think I can comfortably retire I'll be in the country full time. I have even considered transferring to the SO in the country but I don't think it would be wise. Ignorance is bliss....I don't want to know the bad people of the town I live in....just the good people. </div></div>

So now think about the poor bastards who are in the city, trapped and become addicts/lepers. They see NO WAY OUT and turn crack or meth as one way. "There but for grace go I"....makes me more humble every time.

Mabey rural, heavy duty, long term, "boot camp" type places. When you graduate you get a ticket to friends, family, any where but where you came from. If you run away fuck up no secon chance. Gotta be cheaper than prison, and lots of bleeding heart libs to be teachers
crazy.gif
 
#45
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

My opinion is that the root of drug and alcohol abuse is aggravated by 20th century trends having ripple affects. Secular consumerism propelled by Television and advertising and its consequences. In either event, our thirst for comfort, money or otherwise self-centeredness is the root of the problem.

Another way to express my theory is a lack of spirituality. Doing for others, for example. Do you know one reason Nursing Homes flourish? Is it because we are not willing to take care of our parents? We claim they're too much trouble, but the truth really is they wiped our ass but we won't wipe theirs when its our turn!

Here's my point; we are seeking to change the way we feel these days by using drugs, alchohol, new shit like guns, tacticool, luxury items like my Cayman, trophy wives, trophy hunts, as distinguished from the way our grandparents changed the way they felt; through establishing a conscious contact with a God (or god) of one's understanding through prayer and meditation.

Rather, we take a pill to feel better or buy something rather than do something for another as this was done in the day. We smoke, drink, use drugs because we like their affect. Using gets out of control for some and becomes an obsession of the mind and an allergy of the body. But the using or drinking is but a symptom of other problems that were heretofore solved by prayer and meditation.

I believe widespread societal drug abuse to the extent we see it today is rooted in an absence of love for each other and prayer. Not saying not loving an addict is causing her addiction. I'm suggesting a lack of love both during childhood and later in life can be causes of sufficient anger, resentments and such to put the mind in such a high state of pain and sadness as to mean the only relief that works is a powerful elicit drug. Regretably. And this cannot be understood by a non-addict / non-alcoholic.

"I have seen hundreds of Jews, tens of Protestants, and a few believing Catholics, and without exception, they became ill because they had lost what the world's religions had taught them, and, they would not get well until they had recovered the spiritual sensibility. -Jung, Carl G. Modern Man In Search of a Soul. 1933.
 
#47
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My opinion is that the root of drug and alcohol abuse is aggravated by 20th century trends having ripple affects. Secular consumerism propelled by Television and advertising and its consequences. In either event, our thirst for comfort, money or otherwise self-centeredness is the root of the problem.

Another way to express my theory is a lack of spirituality. Doing for others, for example. Do you know one reason Nursing Homes flourish? Is it because we are not willing to take care of our parents? We claim they're too much trouble, but the truth really is they wiped our ass but we won't wipe theirs when its our turn!

Here's my point; we are seeking to change the way we feel these days by using drugs, alchohol, new shit like guns, tacticool, luxury items like my Cayman, trophy wives, trophy hunts, as distinguished from the way our grandparents changed the way they felt; through establishing a conscious contact with a God (or god) of one's understanding through prayer and meditation.

Rather, we take a pill to feel better or buy something rather than do something for another as this was done in the day. We smoke, drink, use drugs because we like their affect. Using gets out of control for some and becomes an obsession of the mind and an allergy of the body. But the using or drinking is but a symptom of other problems that were heretofore solved by prayer and meditation.

I believe widespread societal drug abuse to the extent we see it today is rooted in an absence of love for each other and prayer. Not saying not loving an addict is causing her addiction. I'm suggesting a lack of love both during childhood and later in life can be causes of sufficient anger, resentments and such to put the mind in such a high state of pain and sadness as to mean the only relief that works is a powerful elicit drug. Regretably. And this cannot be understood by a non-addict / non-alcoholic.

"I have seen hundreds of Jews, tens of Protestants, and a few believing Catholics, and without exception, they became ill because they had lost what the world's religions had taught them, and, they would not get well until they had recovered the spiritual sensibility. -Jung, Carl G. Modern Man In Search of a Soul. 1933. </div></div>

Thats certainly a large part of it...poor self esteem and no hope...trapped and nowgere to go and no way to get there if they had a place to go. Some of it psychological/spiritual, but another part just plain physical...ie: chemical imbalances and other dibilitating problems. But thats not all of it.

The prohibition of drugs actually started with the Brittish in China. The Chinese laborers enjoyed their opium, and in their culture where it was legal, and accepted, caused little if any problem. Where the problem started is that the Brittish wanted more production in their fields and factories and opium was counterproductive. So rather than adjust to fit the culture, the Britts forced their culture on the locals....causing immense suffering and trouble....they created a crimiinal class out of otherwise decent people....all for more money.

Essentially the same thing happened in America. WR Hearst the newpaper magnate owened hundreds of thousands acres of land with trees on it that could be turned into paper for his newspapers. Its a fact that acre for acre hemp will out produce wood, and make better paper(on a side note, hemp is also a nitrogen fixer...leaves more nitrogen in the soil than it takes out, unlike trees and most plants). About the same time Dupont, who had just developed nylon, saw WWII on the horizon and wanted to sell the US fovernment nylon rope....once again hemp makes better rope...doesnt breakwhen it freezes, and will out last nylon. So Hearst and DuPont, 2 of the wealthiest conglomerates in the US at the time got together and produced "Reefer Madness" to influence congress to outlaw hemp production, and with it out law all cannibas products.

So the war on drugs began not as a social attempt to help anyone, but as an economec war to promote their own selfish agenda. In the last 70 years think how many otherwise innocent lives have been destroyed for profit.
 
#48
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Meh. I've fucked worse... </div></div>
 
#49
Re: This is your face. . . This is your face on drugs

Goldie,

Military Industrial Complex (as we were warned about by Gen. Eisenhower) read, Prison Industrial Complex. Gotcha.
I see it daily as a lawyer in criminal justice.
 
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