PRS Talk Thoughts on trying PRS with no DOPE?

[GPtuners]

BLUF: I know nothing, and am thinking of going to a PRS-style shoot with a hastily zeroed rifle and my best guess at my drops.

TLDR:
After months of reading threads, I thought I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted. I wasn't in a rush because I had a list, and was going to take my time (for budgetary reasons) putting together a really awesome Tikka build:

• Tikka CTR 308
• KRG X-ray w/spigot
• Atlas bipod
• Nice bag(s)
• Alpha glass

From a budget perspective, it would probably be another 6 months before I would be able to purchase what I wanted (or thought I needed) and actually start shooting.

The plan started to go off the rails when I saw a Tikka CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor sitting on a shelf at Cabelas for 5% off retail last weekend, so I bought it. Last night, I noticed a PRS club was holding a friendly match 30 minutes away 17 days from now.

In the past, I've often found that if I don't hop straight into something, I end up chasing gear for years and rarely go to the range. So tried to figure out the minimum setup to get out there and shoot (probably badly). This is what I have coming/purchased:

• I was able to find some ammo, so I'll have 20 rounds to zero it, and another 100 rounds for the event.
• Strelok Pro
• I took the advice from the Guide to PRS in one of the subforums, so I bought a Harris, 6-9, notched leg, swivel, and a pod-loc.
• I have a sock with rice.
• And the remaining budget leaves me with a scope in the $1500 range. I was looking at a Steiner at Cameraland that fit the bill, but some people chimed in that it wasn't as good as the Burris Offerings in that range. I'm looking for FFP, with an upper magnification range of 20 or less, reliable tracking, and a fairly simple MIL reticle (no giant Horus).

So am I crazy for rushing out there and just shooting an event with targets out to 750 yds? My home range is a static range that maxes at 125 yds. I have a couple of ranges within an hour that push 300yds, but that's not much elevation adjustment , so I figure this will be my first chance to actually send some rounds at a decent distance and see how this all works. Oh, and I have little to no practical experience with a rifle. All my trigger time is with pistols.

Thanks,
Carlos

 

[cgobeli]

I would at least want a muzzle velocity to put into Strelok, other than that go for it.

 

[SonoranPrecision]

I wouldn’t say you’re crazy at all. In fact I fully believe that there’s no better way to figure out what works for you than to jump in with what you have, rice sock and all. There is bound to be people there willing to let you try out gear. The only sorta detriment is you may not have an accurate velocity, but if you’re close, you can tune the data in the app as you go.

 

[Hairball]

Just go to the match. If it's just a friendly fun shoot, I am sure many will help you out and try to answer any questions you might have. Sight the rifle in at 100 and take your best guess velocity off the box of ammo and make a small range card. The rest you will work on when you get there.

 

[ForgeValley]

I'll offer another thought.

Can you go and be okay with missing a lot and really committing to it as a learning experience and okay with not being competitive?

Or will it be an extremely frustrating thing for you to go and miss a lot and not be in the top ten? I know a lot of guys like that.

Because if you've never shot beyond 100 yards before, have no experience with a rifle, and don't know this particular rifle, you are going to suck.

Not trying to dissuade you, I think you should go and have a great time and learn about long range shooting and your gear. You'll learn more at that match than reading on the internet for months. You just gotta have the headspace right.

 

[diverdon]

It should only take two or three rounds to zero your rifle. Learn how your scope works. It will pay off in the long run.

 

[sachsmart]

It takes 3-6 rounds to zero at a 100 yards and then you can get a free app like Ballistic AE and input the basic fields including MV off the box. I would suggest use at least 10fps lower than what is stated. If you have more ammo, then Zero at a 100yrds and then go to 300yrds and without dialing shoot 3 rounds. Take an average of the drop and you can input that in Hornady Website to figure a fairly accurate MV. Then you will have a pretty good Dope. Just don't be frustrated if you miss. Concentrate on building stable positions quickly. At a match I shot last weekend, we did have one person who was shooting hand loads with 2 apps data and each was off by a full MOA and he left mid way thru. Just stick to one app and hopefully you have a commercially available bullet with known BCs. Best of luck.

 

[GPtuners]

I would at least want a muzzle velocity to put into Strelok, other than that go for it.

It pre-populated 2584@59° based off the ammo (147gr ELD Match), but if anyone has a solid number to use for a 6.5 CM 24" CTR, I'd be happy to adjust it.

I wouldn’t say you’re crazy at all. In fact I fully believe that there’s no better way to figure out what works for you than to jump in with what you have, rice sock and all. There is bound to be people there willing to let you try out gear. The only sorta detriment is you may not have an accurate velocity, but if you’re close, you can tune the data in the app as you go.

I have to check if brown rice is better for a front or a rear bag. Maybe white rice for barriers...

Just go to the match. If it's just a friendly fun shoot, I am sure many will help you out and try to answer any questions you might have. Sight the rifle in at 100 and take your best guess velocity off the box of ammo and make a small range card. The rest you will work on when you get there.

I'll try!

I'll offer another thought.

Can you go and be okay with missing a lot and really committing to it as a learning experience and okay with not being competitive?

Or will it be an extremely frustrating thing for you to go and miss a lot and not be in the top ten? I know a lot of guys like that.

Because if you've never shot beyond 100 yards before, have no experience with a rifle, and don't know this particular rifle, you are going to suck.

Not trying to dissuade you, I think you should go and have a great time and learn about long range shooting and your gear. You'll learn more at that match than reading on the internet for months. You just gotta have the headspace right.

I have no natural talent for anything, but I've gotten pretty damn good at things after years of reps and instruction. I have no illusions I'm going to suck BAD.

Are you fully trianed in Mil's? If not stick with a MOA/MOA scope. I'm an rifle instructor for a Colorado Mountain PD. I make my people shoot out to 750 yds. some have fixed 10 power scopes. I have the NF 3.5 X 15-50 with a MOAR recticle. We all shoot MOA/MOA scopes . Send your Bushnell in for service. They'll fix it or get you a new scope. Are you shooting the Hogue Stock on that rifle? Replace it! Have seen the stock cause problems of holding groups.
The Bell & Carlson Remington Competition/Tactical stock, Has an aluminum bedding block, Adj cheek piece. Torque screws to 60 in/lbs. You can also order the stock inletted for M5 bottom metal. Or get yourself a good chassis stock. McCree, MPA, MDT find what fits you.

I have zero official training in MOA or MILs. I can explain the concepts, can draw it out on a whiteboard, but probably can't hit shit.

I have a box or two of "experience" with a Vortex Crossfire on a Ruger Gunsite Scout at 125 yds. I sold it and some other guns to fund this build.

Yeah, this is the regular synthetic stock. If I buy a replacement for it, I'm probably another month or two down the road before I get to shoot it.

 

[longgunJR]

I'd say go for it, you'll likely have an opportunity to check your zero before the match, if you don't have a chrono of your own someone will be glad to help if you just ask, the community is great. With accurate MV you're 3/4s the way there.
If you're shooting hornady bullets your BC will likely true up under advertised value unless it's an Atip, with berger it'll be much closer to advertised depending on the gun.
As a new shooter you'll get corrections, lister to them and adjust accordingly, it'll go fast and you'll have your hands full.

 

[sachsmart]

It pre-populated 2584@59° based off the ammo (147gr ELD Match), but if anyone has a solid number to use for a 6.5 CM 24" CTR, I'd be happy to adjust it.

Use 2665 fps with a BC of 0.310

 

[cgobeli]

If you wait until you have the gear, you will wish you started sooner.

If you go and do not like it, you haven't sunk a ton of money into it.

 

[IronicTwitch]

I did exactly this. Zeroed at 100. Had my ballistic app setup with my bullet and chrono data. Showed up and confirmed my DOPE at 630 yards and adjusted my input in the ballistics app. Had some good hits out to that distance the rest of the match!

The experience of the match was the goal.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

You'll be fine. But, you'll need to chrono those rounds. Strelok and my factory loaded Hornady 140 ELDM elevation is very good.

IMO, you're actually better off doing this way. You should do a few matches like this 'borrowing' equipment and watching what works. Then you'll be able to better address what you need vs. what you think you need. I'm actually kinda going down the same road with a TacA1 and a similarly budgeted scope. There's a lot to learn beyond equipment and this is a great way to start.

 

[davsco]

i'd make sure you have a solid zero at 100yds and do whatever you can to actually chrono your ammo, maybe that means hanging out at your range all day til someone shows up with a chrono. if you don't have these two, you're prob wasting time and money at the match and i'd just spectate it if you want to see what all goes on. and don't think twice about using some of that 'match day' 100 rounds to zero/chrono as most likely you'll time out on some stages before the full 10 or whatever rounds.

then i'd get a free phone-based app or something like "shooter" for $10 that works great for me. then read and figure out how to a) hold and b) dial for different distances using your scope.

at the match let your squad know you're brand new and surely most of them will be falling over themselves to give you advice and loan gear. and will give you atmospheric data off their kestrel that you input into your phone ballistics app.

say what your local range is and likely someone here wouldn't mind meeting you there to get you up to speed.

 

[The4GunGuy]

BLUF: I know nothing, and am thinking of going to a PRS-style shoot with a hastily zeroed rifle and my best guess at my drops.

TLDR:
After months of reading threads, I thought I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted. I wasn't in a rush because I had a list, and was going to take my time (for budgetary reasons) putting together a really awesome Tikka build:

• Tikka CTR 308
• KRG X-ray w/spigot
• Atlas bipod
• Nice bag(s)
• Alpha glass

From a budget perspective, it would probably be another 6 months before I would be able to purchase what I wanted (or thought I needed) and actually start shooting.

The plan started to go off the rails when I saw a Tikka CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor sitting on a shelf at Cabelas for 5% off retail last weekend, so I bought it. Last night, I noticed a PRS club was holding a friendly match 30 minutes away 17 days from now.

In the past, I've often found that if I don't hop straight into something, I end up chasing gear for years and rarely go to the range. So tried to figure out the minimum setup to get out there and shoot (probably badly). This is what I have coming/purchased:

• I was able to find some ammo, so I'll have 20 rounds to zero it, and another 100 rounds for the event.
• Strelok Pro
• I took the advice from the Guide to PRS in one of the subforums, so I bought a Harris, 6-9, notched leg, swivel, and a pod-loc.
• I have a sock with rice.
• And the remaining budget leaves me with a scope in the $1500 range. I was looking at a Steiner at Cameraland that fit the bill, but some people chimed in that it wasn't as good as the Burris Offerings in that range. I'm looking for FFP, with an upper magnification range of 20 or less, reliable tracking, and a fairly simple MIL reticle (no giant Horus).

So am I crazy for rushing out there and just shooting an event with targets out to 750 yds? My home range is a static range that maxes at 125 yds. I have a couple of ranges within an hour that push 300yds, but that's not much elevation adjustment , so I figure this will be my first chance to actually send some rounds at a decent distance and see how this all works. Oh, and I have little to no practical experience with a rifle. All my trigger time is with pistols.

Thanks,
Carlos

Hi Carlos,

I did a video comparing my hand loads to off the shelf and included the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 147 gr ELDM off the shelf cartridge. You can view the video at . A good average MV for what I had was 2,780 fps.

Now, I agree with what others are saying...go out and have a good time. If the match is based on targets out to 750 yards, by all means, try to hit them, BUT, as I began to shoot PRS, I finally realized that MOST targets for the matches I shoot are between 450 - 700 yards, with the rest in the 800 - 1000 range. So I started to practice and focus on those shorter shots so when the match came, I was confident that I'd hit at least 50% of the targets (missing some short targets). Setting a goal and reaching it feels good. When I felt confident on the short stuff, I really focused on the longer ranges. Just how I thought of it so I didn't get really upset and depressed that I couldn't hit 1000 targets right off the bat.

The other folks are correct when they say "learn your positions". PRACTICE with your rice bag off the back of a chair in the back yard, off different rungs of a ladder, off the trunk of your car (put a blanket down first!), or any other position you can think of. I have another video on positions and possible bag placement that you might want to review.

I started with Stelok Pro and it's a good app. Plug in that 2,780 mv to start, zero the scope at 100 yds, then go out to that 300 yard target you mentioned close to your house. Hit THAT center vertically and you'll most likely be good out to 500 yards. We didn't talk about wind, so ASK others with perhaps better environmental equipment what they're getting for wind. Watch some videos on wind (yes I have one on that too!) and understand when to dial wind and when to hold wind. This will come over time.

You'll be so pumped up on the day of the match don't forget some basics:
- First...THINK SAFETY! Practice dry firing 10 rounds, then, when 10 is up, bring the bolt back open and remove the magazine...SAY IT WHEN YOU DO IT..."Bolt back, mag out!" which is what you'll do and should say when you are finished shooting the stage.
- Remember the 180 rule: Your muzzle should never break a 180 degree plane perpendicular to the target (90 degrees either side of you and also above you).
- FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER until you HAVE THE TARGET CENTERED IN THE RETICLE AND YOU'RE READY TO ENGAGE IT.
- BOLT OPEN when transitioning from position to position on a stage...practice this
- Do you have dummy rounds? If not buy some. Practice a jam and how to clear it.
- Figure out where you'll keep your extra magazine on you in case the one in the rifle messes up

Finally, HAVE FUN AND TAKE YOUR TIME. Go slow, don't worry about the timer, you're not there yet, so focus on safety, position, and getting the shot off. Good luck buddy and please let us all know how it goes!

 

[6.5SH]

A really good zero from a stable position, the EXACT zero distance known, environmental info to get you within 1000 ft of actual DA and a chronographed velocity from your rifle and you will have enough to start. If you can confirm before hand things line up at longer distances great.

 

[smoothy8500]

Yeah, three or four people mentioned getting you loads chronographed, but if one isn't available, use the truing feature on your Strelok Pro with corrected dope any distance past 300yds. It'll get you corrected dope up to around 1K.

 

[LawnMM]

 

[Sheldon N]

If I had to shoot a match with no chrono, no chance to shoot at distance beforehand, and no prior drop data, I would do the following...

Get a solid 100 yard zero
Set up my ballistic app with the correct rifle data and correct settings
Choose a G7 BC for the bullet based on other shooter's reported experience (something like 0.335 G7 for your 147 ELD is probably good)

Then on the morning of the match I would ask the match director if I can send a couple rounds into the farthest available dirt berm. Grab someone with optics for assistance, get an exact range to the dirt berm, start out with the box velocity in the app for an initial come-up, and send a round to see where it goes. Dial up or down until the bullets are landing at the same waterline as the aiming point, then adjust the velocity in the app until it matches what is dialed on the scope.

That could all be done easily within your 20 extra available rounds, and would give you solid data that you could shoot the match with. The alternate option is that you see someone with a chrono the morning of the match and can get a velocity for your app. If both of those fail, then the last ditch option is to just shoot the match and on every prone stage with stable shooting position make a note of whether you were hitting high or low, and tweak your velocity in the app accordingly.

 

[OREGUN]

Then on the morning of the match I would ask the match director if I can send a couple rounds into the farthest available dirt berm. Grab someone with optics for assistance, get an exact range to the dirt berm, start out with the box velocity in the app for an initial come-up, and send a round to see where it goes. Dial up or down until the bullets are landing at the same waterline as the aiming point, then adjust the velocity in the app until it matches what is dialed on the scope.

This is great advice (the whole post). Regarding this paragraph, you could do the same thing with a plate hanging at a known distance...farther the better. Our berms tend to be so dry that spotting an impact on them is hard...just a dust cloud and no residual mark...and some ranges are weird about shooting into the berms...
For minute of plate accuracy for the match, you could do what @Sheldon N recommends but shoot a plate, even using the match advertised distance, and if you are hitting it, even if you can’t necessarily verify waterline accuracy, you will be “close enough”.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Hi Carlos,

I did a video comparing my hand loads to off the shelf and included the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 147 gr ELDM off the shelf cartridge. You can view the video at . A good average MV for what I had was 2,780 fps.

Now, I agree with what others are saying...go out and have a good time. If the match is based on targets out to 750 yards, by all means, try to hit them, BUT, as I began to shoot PRS, I finally realized that MOST targets for the matches I shoot are between 450 - 700 yards, with the rest in the 800 - 1000 range. So I started to practice and focus on those shorter shots so when the match came, I was confident that I'd hit at least 50% of the targets (missing some short targets). Setting a goal and reaching it feels good. When I felt confident on the short stuff, I really focused on the longer ranges. Just how I thought of it so I didn't get really upset and depressed that I couldn't hit 1000 targets right off the bat.

The other folks are correct when they say "learn your positions". PRACTICE with your rice bag off the back of a chair in the back yard, off different rungs of a ladder, off the trunk of your car (put a blanket down first!), or any other position you can think of. I have another video on positions and possible bag placement that you might want to review.

I started with Stelok Pro and it's a good app. Plug in that 2,780 mv to start, zero the scope at 100 yds, then go out to that 300 yard target you mentioned close to your house. Hit THAT center vertically and you'll most likely be good out to 500 yards. We didn't talk about wind, so ASK others with perhaps better environmental equipment what they're getting for wind. Watch some videos on wind (yes I have one on that too!) and understand when to dial wind and when to hold wind. This will come over time.

You'll be so pumped up on the day of the match don't forget some basics:
- First...THINK SAFETY! Practice dry firing 10 rounds, then, when 10 is up, bring the bolt back open and remove the magazine...SAY IT WHEN YOU DO IT..."Bolt back, mag out!" which is what you'll do and should say when you are finished shooting the stage.
- Remember the 180 rule: Your muzzle should never break a 180 degree plane perpendicular to the target (90 degrees either side of you and also above you).
- FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER until you HAVE THE TARGET CENTERED IN THE RETICLE AND YOU'RE READY TO ENGAGE IT.
- BOLT OPEN when transitioning from position to position on a stage...practice this
- Do you have dummy rounds? If not buy some. Practice a jam and how to clear it.
- Figure out where you'll keep your extra magazine on you in case the one in the rifle messes up

Finally, HAVE FUN AND TAKE YOUR TIME. Go slow, don't worry about the timer, you're not there yet, so focus on safety, position, and getting the shot off. Good luck buddy and please let us all know how it goes!

Great video. A couple things. Shouldn't you find a decent SD/ES and then find an accurate load length for groups per Eric Cortina? And my Tikka 6.5 is shooting Hornady 140 ELDM factory at 2638. So, I'm in the "2600s".

Tikka are known for 'slow' barrels.

 

[GPtuners]

Use 2665 fps with a BC of 0.310

Thanks!

If you wait until you have the gear, you will wish you started sooner.

If you go and do not like it, you haven't sunk a ton of money into it.

Hoping so. On this same note, I went ahead and got a demo Burris Xtreme Tactical 5-25x50mm. It seems that the $1500 spot is an odd one for scope, and I should just shoot with that for a year, and save the $500 for something better down the line.

I did exactly this. Zeroed at 100. Had my ballistic app setup with my bullet and chrono data. Showed up and confirmed my DOPE at 630 yards and adjusted my input in the ballistics app. Had some good hits out to that distance the rest of the match!

The experience of the match was the goal.

I may try to do the same at 100 and 300. (Or 350? Not sure how it's marked...) I really need to figure out exactly how far that range goes. I'll have to go by their marking if there isn't someone there with a rangefinder.

You'll be fine. But, you'll need to chrono those rounds. Strelok and my factory loaded Hornady 140 ELDM elevation is very good.

IMO, you're actually better off doing this way. You should do a few matches like this 'borrowing' equipment and watching what works. Then you'll be able to better address what you need vs. what you think you need. I'm actually kinda going down the same road with a TacA1 and a similarly budgeted scope. There's a lot to learn beyond equipment and this is a great way to start.

Is one of those $99 Cabelas chronos (with the two coat hangars) better than guessing?

Or do you not get good readings until you pay for a top-of-the-line Magnetospeed?

i'd make sure you have a solid zero at 100yds and do whatever you can to actually chrono your ammo, maybe that means hanging out at your range all day til someone shows up with a chrono.

I've literally never seen a chrono at any range I've ever been.

say what your local range is and likely someone here wouldn't mind meeting you there to get you up to speed.

Only one that doesn't require a membership that I can actually get to in short order is Knob Creek Range in Louisville. They claim they go to 350 yds. It used to be 300 but I think they started allowing you to set up targets up the hill now, so that last 50 yards is significantly higher than the firing line.

Hi Carlos,

I did a video comparing my hand loads to off the shelf and included the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 147 gr ELDM off the shelf cartridge. You can view the video at . A good average MV for what I had was 2,780 fps.

Now, I agree with what others are saying...go out and have a good time. If the match is based on targets out to 750 yards, by all means, try to hit them, BUT, as I began to shoot PRS, I finally realized that MOST targets for the matches I shoot are between 450 - 700 yards, with the rest in the 800 - 1000 range. So I started to practice and focus on those shorter shots so when the match came, I was confident that I'd hit at least 50% of the targets (missing some short targets). Setting a goal and reaching it feels good. When I felt confident on the short stuff, I really focused on the longer ranges. Just how I thought of it so I didn't get really upset and depressed that I couldn't hit 1000 targets right off the bat.

The other folks are correct when they say "learn your positions". PRACTICE with your rice bag off the back of a chair in the back yard, off different rungs of a ladder, off the trunk of your car (put a blanket down first!), or any other position you can think of. I have another video on positions and possible bag placement that you might want to review.

I started with Stelok Pro and it's a good app. Plug in that 2,780 mv to start, zero the scope at 100 yds, then go out to that 300 yard target you mentioned close to your house. Hit THAT center vertically and you'll most likely be good out to 500 yards. We didn't talk about wind, so ASK others with perhaps better environmental equipment what they're getting for wind. Watch some videos on wind (yes I have one on that too!) and understand when to dial wind and when to hold wind. This will come over time.

You'll be so pumped up on the day of the match don't forget some basics:
- First...THINK SAFETY! Practice dry firing 10 rounds, then, when 10 is up, bring the bolt back open and remove the magazine...SAY IT WHEN YOU DO IT..."Bolt back, mag out!" which is what you'll do and should say when you are finished shooting the stage.
- Remember the 180 rule: Your muzzle should never break a 180 degree plane perpendicular to the target (90 degrees either side of you and also above you).
- FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER until you HAVE THE TARGET CENTERED IN THE RETICLE AND YOU'RE READY TO ENGAGE IT.
- BOLT OPEN when transitioning from position to position on a stage...practice this
- Do you have dummy rounds? If not buy some. Practice a jam and how to clear it.
- Figure out where you'll keep your extra magazine on you in case the one in the rifle messes up

Finally, HAVE FUN AND TAKE YOUR TIME. Go slow, don't worry about the timer, you're not there yet, so focus on safety, position, and getting the shot off. Good luck buddy and please let us all know how it goes!

Thanks! Wow, that video had a lot of information. Thanks for that and the lengthy post. Oh, and you mentioned your barrel being near the end of it's life, but did I miss what rifle you were shooting? I just keep reading about the "slow" Tikka barrels, so I am wondering if your number is too high for my use, or if it would still be good.

A really good zero from a stable position, the EXACT zero distance known, environmental info to get you within 1000 ft of actual DA and a chronographed velocity from your rifle and you will have enough to start. If you can confirm before hand things line up at longer distances great.

Another vote for a chrono...

Yeah, three or four people mentioned getting you loads chronographed, but if one isn't available, use the truing feature on your Strelok Pro with corrected dope any distance past 300yds. It'll get you corrected dope up to around 1K.

I'm probably going to do this, but I am tempted to pick up a Cabelas coat hangar chrono for $99.

If I had to shoot a match with no chrono, no chance to shoot at distance beforehand, and no prior drop data, I would do the following...

Get a solid 100 yard zero
Set up my ballistic app with the correct rifle data and correct settings
Choose a G7 BC for the bullet based on other shooter's reported experience (something like 0.335 G7 for your 147 ELD is probably good)

Then on the morning of the match I would ask the match director if I can send a couple rounds into the farthest available dirt berm. Grab someone with optics for assistance, get an exact range to the dirt berm, start out with the box velocity in the app for an initial come-up, and send a round to see where it goes. Dial up or down until the bullets are landing at the same waterline as the aiming point, then adjust the velocity in the app until it matches what is dialed on the scope.

That could all be done easily within your 20 extra available rounds, and would give you solid data that you could shoot the match with. The alternate option is that you see someone with a chrono the morning of the match and can get a velocity for your app. If both of those fail, then the last ditch option is to just shoot the match and on every prone stage with stable shooting position make a note of whether you were hitting high or low, and tweak your velocity in the app accordingly.

Wow, a lot of great information in there as well. Thanks!

 

[6.5SH]

You can use google maps to get pretty close on distances if are clearly visible indicators of your firing point (concrete pad/roof etc.) and your target frame/mount if visible in the satellite images. Is easier to do on a PC than a phone though.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Gonna need a Magnetospeed or Lab Radar. Or use your dope to reverse calculate the FPS.

A Magnetospeed or a Lab Radar is pretty much required equipment for this game. At least access to one. You can get a Sporter fairly cheap here in the PX or new.

 

[The4GunGuy]

Great video. A couple things. Shouldn't you find a decent SD/ES and then find an accurate load length for groups per Eric Cortina? And my Tikka 6.5 is shooting Hornady 140 ELDM factory at 2638. So, I'm in the "2600s".

Tikka are known for 'slow' barrels.

Hi Jefe! The SD's/ES's were displayed below the excel charts. You can drive yourself crazy and waste a lot of rounds trying to get that holy grail . I look for a good node with wiggle room on either side (even though I use a very good scale and measuring system), along with a corresponding group that is below .5 MOA (preferably .3 MOA) and go from there. I don't necessarily chase the lands but agree with Eric in that I do check accuracy every 400 - 500 rounds to make sure I'm still holding those groups. I ALSO check accuracy at distance as well to make sure I'm still accurate out past 900 yards. Hope this helps.

 

[davsco]

I'm probably going to do this, but I am tempted to pick up a Cabelas coat hangar chrono for $99.

yes that type chrono has served me well for years, but did just buy a labradar.

wait a couple days though and see if a member here contacts you to meet you at your or their range. also contact that range (is that the fabled machine gun shoot place???) and ask about a chrono.

 

[usafa77]

Haven't seen anyone mention the scope. I would find a Vortex Gen II Razor 4.5-27 on the hide for $1500 and you are good to go for a long time.

 

[The4GunGuy]

Thanks!


Hoping so. On this same note, I went ahead and got a demo Burris Xtreme Tactical 5-25x50mm. It seems that the $1500 spot is an odd one for scope, and I should just shoot with that for a year, and save the $500 for something better down the line.


I may try to do the same at 100 and 300. (Or 350? Not sure how it's marked...) I really need to figure out exactly how far that range goes. I'll have to go by their marking if there isn't someone there with a rangefinder.


Is one of those $99 Cabelas chronos (with the two coat hangars) better than guessing?

Or do you not get good readings until you pay for a top-of-the-line Magnetospeed?


I've literally never seen a chrono at any range I've ever been.


Only one that doesn't require a membership that I can actually get to in short order is Knob Creek Range in Louisville. They claim they go to 350 yds. It used to be 300 but I think they started allowing you to set up targets up the hill now, so that last 50 yards is significantly higher than the firing line.


Thanks! Wow, that video had a lot of information. Thanks for that and the lengthy post. Oh, and you mentioned your barrel being near the end of it's life, but did I miss what rifle you were shooting? I just keep reading about the "slow" Tikka barrels, so I am wondering if your number is too high for my use, or if it would still be good.


Another vote for a chrono...


I'm probably going to do this, but I am tempted to pick up a Cabelas coat hangar chrono for $99.


Wow, a lot of great information in there as well. Thanks!

Hi Carlos,

I did a video comparing my hand loads to off the shelf and included the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 147 gr ELDM off the shelf cartridge. You can view the video at . A good average MV for what I had was 2,780 fps.

Now, I agree with what others are saying...go out and have a good time. If the match is based on targets out to 750 yards, by all means, try to hit them, BUT, as I began to shoot PRS, I finally realized that MOST targets for the matches I shoot are between 450 - 700 yards, with the rest in the 800 - 1000 range. So I started to practice and focus on those shorter shots so when the match came, I was confident that I'd hit at least 50% of the targets (missing some short targets). Setting a goal and reaching it feels good. When I felt confident on the short stuff, I really focused on the longer ranges. Just how I thought of it so I didn't get really upset and depressed that I couldn't hit 1000 targets right off the bat.

The other folks are correct when they say "learn your positions". PRACTICE with your rice bag off the back of a chair in the back yard, off different rungs of a ladder, off the trunk of your car (put a blanket down first!), or any other position you can think of. I have another video on positions and possible bag placement that you might want to review.

I started with Stelok Pro and it's a good app. Plug in that 2,780 mv to start, zero the scope at 100 yds, then go out to that 300 yard target you mentioned close to your house. Hit THAT center vertically and you'll most likely be good out to 500 yards. We didn't talk about wind, so ASK others with perhaps better environmental equipment what they're getting for wind. Watch some videos on wind (yes I have one on that too!) and understand when to dial wind and when to hold wind. This will come over time.

You'll be so pumped up on the day of the match don't forget some basics:
- First...THINK SAFETY! Practice dry firing 10 rounds, then, when 10 is up, bring the bolt back open and remove the magazine...SAY IT WHEN YOU DO IT..."Bolt back, mag out!" which is what you'll do and should say when you are finished shooting the stage.
- Remember the 180 rule: Your muzzle should never break a 180 degree plane perpendicular to the target (90 degrees either side of you and also above you).
- FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER until you HAVE THE TARGET CENTERED IN THE RETICLE AND YOU'RE READY TO ENGAGE IT.
- BOLT OPEN when transitioning from position to position on a stage...practice this
- Do you have dummy rounds? If not buy some. Practice a jam and how to clear it.
- Figure out where you'll keep your extra magazine on you in case the one in the rifle messes up

Finally, HAVE FUN AND TAKE YOUR TIME. Go slow, don't worry about the timer, you're not there yet, so focus on safety, position, and getting the shot off. Good luck buddy and please let us all know how it goes!

Hi Carlos,

I'm running an Impact Precision Action with a Preferred Barrel Blanks barrel. I didn't wait for my Bartlein barrel to shoot out and this new PBB has been dead on so far, so will probably go with them again since I can get a barrel for THAT action (737R) for around $400 and spin it on myself.

 

[The4GunGuy]

Haven't seen anyone mention the scope. I would find a Vortex Gen II Razor 4.5-27 on the hide for $1500 and you are good to go for a long time.

Totally agree USAF! I was running a Razor until I picked up the Zero Compromise. That Razor is a TANK...The glass is very good and I LOVE that EBR-7C reticle!

 

[GPtuners]

Hi Carlos,

I'm running an Impact Precision Action with a Preferred Barrel Blanks barrel. I didn't wait for my Bartlein barrel to shoot out and this new PBB has been dead on so far, so will probably go with them again since I can get a barrel for THAT action (737R) for around $400 and spin it on myself.

Thanks!

 

[Thesepaperwings]

Number one thing is to just have fun. I run loaner programs for the series I'm in and there's always guys like me who will jump at the chance to get a new shooter into the sport. When you're there you can ask to use someone's bag or chrono and they will always say yes (We will all shame them if they don't help new shooters). For your first match you're going to time out on most stages and that's ok, just try to focus on getting into positions and understanding how the game works.

 

[patriotnation]

Get a muzzle brake
You are going to love the Tikka
If you like that style shooting match, you probably will want t too invest in a different stock/chassis so it has an Arca rail etc. managing recoil will help you a lot. Good luck, we all start somewhere.

 

[GPtuners]

also contact that range (is that the fabled machine gun shoot place???) and ask about a chrono.

That is the one! Any day of the week, you can roll a car out there and shoot it, as long as you clean it up when they call "Clear!"

Number one thing is to just have fun. I run loaner programs for the series I'm in and there's always guys like me who will jump at the chance to get a new shooter into the sport. When you're there you can ask to use someone's bag or chrono and they will always say yes (We will all shame them if they don't help new shooters). For your first match you're going to time out on most stages and that's ok, just try to focus on getting into positions and understanding how the game works.

I've been watching some videos and was recently told "GO SLOW". I'll just going to keep repeating that in my head.

Get a muzzle brake
You are going to love the Tikka
If you like that style shooting match, you probably will want t too invest in a different stock/chassis so it has an Arca rail etc. managing recoil will help you a lot. Good luck, we all start somewhere.

I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but are there budget brakes that are recommended? I was reading a thread that had three top-tier contenders, and the Patriot Valley Arms was mentioned as a budget alternative (but with similar effectiveness).

 

[6.5SH]

That is the one! Any day of the week, you can roll a car out there and shoot it, as long as you clean it up when they call "Clear!"


I've been watching some videos and was recently told "GO SLOW". I'll just going to keep repeating that in my head.


I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but are there budget brakes that are recommended? I was reading a thread that had three top-tier contenders, and the Patriot Valley Arms was mentioned as a budget alternative (but with similar effectiveness).

If you plan on shooting factory ammo for a long while I'd consider Erik Cortina's tuner brake.

https://erikcortina.com/tuners

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Number one thing is to just have fun. I run loaner programs for the series I'm in and there's always guys like me who will jump at the chance to get a new shooter into the sport. When you're there you can ask to use someone's bag or chrono and they will always say yes (We will all shame them if they don't help new shooters). For your first match you're going to time out on most stages and that's ok, just try to focus on getting into positions and understanding how the game works.

You're awesome and this is what I have found at most matches. EVERYONE is extremely helpful and willing if not down right demanding you try our their equipment. What I didn't expect when starting to shoot matches was how much I enjoy helping others knowing what it was like being the new guy.

 

[wade2big]

Use 2665 fps with a BC of 0.310

Great video. A couple things. Shouldn't you find a decent SD/ES and then find an accurate load length for groups per Eric Cortina? And my Tikka 6.5 is shooting Hornady 140 ELDM factory at 2638. So, I'm in the "2600s".

Tikka are known for 'slow' barrels.

My Tikka ctr 24” matched these guys. Mine was right at 2650 fps.

 

[TarmacShooter]

Go for it! Have fun it’s what the game is about!!

 

[GPtuners]

Well, I reached out to the match director regarding a chrono, and it turns out they will have one available!

I will have a lab radar on site the morning of the match so you can check zero and get a muzzle velocity

 

[GPtuners]

So that means I'm going to hit all the targets now, right?

 

[davsco]

So that means I'm going to hit all the targets now, right?

YES it's THAT easy! NOT... have fun!

 

[patriotnation]

Try the Jetblast, reasonable price and it did the job for my CTR

 

[Thesepaperwings]

I've got a PVA hybrid brake for a loaner and it's a good deal as well.

 

[Long Range 338]

Local matches can be great training opportunities if you have the right attitude. Let them know you’re new and they should help you and give you some pointers and get some great practice in while you learn.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Go for it.
Worst case scenario, is that you will experience something new.
All the best.

 

[GPtuners]

Tripod is on! After installing the Pod-Loc, I now understand how it could be useful. It locks and unlocks REALLY quickly.

 

[GPtuners]

@The4GunGuy Man...thank you for this video- liked and subscribed. So much good stuff in there.



I was reading the 2021 PRS Rulebook, and it doesn't really talk about the SOPs. It's very general on safety, but doesn't get into specifics, including the unspoked rules that people live by in this sport (including basic things like range commands). So I started searching YouTube for "PRS Beginners Safety" "PRS Range Commands" and some similar phrases to try to get an idea. So many other videos just say "get out there and someone will help you..."

True, but I'm sure they will be a little less frustrated if I have SOME idea of what I'm doing out there. This helps a lot.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Don't be afraid to ask questions. Most are happy to answer and give good answers.

 

[Birddog6424]

• And the remaining budget leaves me with a scope in the $1500 range. I was looking at a Steiner at Cameraland that fit the bill, but some people chimed in that it wasn't as good as the Burris Offerings in that range. I'm looking for FFP, with an upper magnification range of 20 or less, reliable tracking, and a fairly simple MIL reticle (no giant Horus).

People are right. The Burris XTR3 is awfully hard to beat in its price point. The 3.3-18 has a killer FOV and a "fairly simple" reticle in the SCR. Or the SCR2 in a grid reticle at your budget. Its compact, less than 30ozs, covered or uncovered windage and locking diopter.

Its an awfully good gig..

 

[Rocketboy]

I did it. I had a bullet speed though. Even though that did not help me as I had a brand new barrel and that speed increased greatly through the sheets.

 

[MakeSawdust]

Is one of those $99 Cabelas chronos (with the two coat hangars) better than guessing?

Or do you not get good readings until you pay for a top-of-the-line Magnetospeed?

It was touched on briefly once, but I want to emphasize. Do not buy a cheap light based chrono! A magnetospeed Sporter has served me well. They are around $160 new.

I had a light based chrono that was around $150 for a long time before the magneto speed became available. It was pretty useless for shooting long range. It was just a guess at the velocity, and then I had to shoot to distance and true the velocity in the calculator. Eventually I stopped shooting over the chrono and just got dope and worked backwards with the ballistic solver to get the velocity.

Most top shooters still true at distance. They take the velocity from an accurate chronograph and then true bc at distance. You can do the same by shooting if you true velocity at 600 and bc at 800 or farther.

To reiterate, borrow a chrono until you can at least get a magnetospeed Sporter. You can get good data by inputting the velocity in 4DOF and shooting. The stuff past 600 might be slightly off, but it will be a start. For your first match it probably won't matter a bunch. There are a lot of things to learn. All of this is very simple, but there is a lot going on in a short time. Let people know you are new and most people will go out of their way to help you be successful.