Looking to install a brake on my new Remington 700, .308. I don't know much about gun smithing but I do have access to machine equipment. Just curious if anyone has done there own barrel. It has a slight taper so it looks like I would have to make some tapered jaws to hold the barrel, removing the barrel is what scares me the most.
Gunsmithing Threading a barrel?
- Thread starter 358Mustang
- Start date
Re: Threading a barrel?
Removing the barrel is the easiest part, as it only requires hand tools. Get an action wrench, or borrow someones and you are set. When threading make sure you indicate off the bore and not the outside of the barrel as some are not concentric.
Removing the barrel is the easiest part, as it only requires hand tools. Get an action wrench, or borrow someones and you are set. When threading make sure you indicate off the bore and not the outside of the barrel as some are not concentric.
Re: Threading a barrel?
Ok, I will be ok using an indicator inside the bore? My impression has always been nothing should be inside a rifle bore unless your cleaning. How about the taper of the bore, does this pose an issue when trying to chuck up the barrel? One other thing, once I remove the barrel, is there a special procedure to re install it the same way? I assume it should be indexed? Or just mark where it comes off in relation to the receiver.
Ok, I will be ok using an indicator inside the bore? My impression has always been nothing should be inside a rifle bore unless your cleaning. How about the taper of the bore, does this pose an issue when trying to chuck up the barrel? One other thing, once I remove the barrel, is there a special procedure to re install it the same way? I assume it should be indexed? Or just mark where it comes off in relation to the receiver.
Re: Threading a barrel?
I don't think ANY of them are concentric. They're all out a little and some as much as .040 ! I have one that is visible to the nekid eye from the muzzle end.
JH
I don't think ANY of them are concentric. They're all out a little and some as much as .040 ! I have one that is visible to the nekid eye from the muzzle end.
JH
Re: Threading a barrel?
Wow that's ridiculous, now I may have to bug my buddy because I don't have a 4 jaw chuck.
Wow that's ridiculous, now I may have to bug my buddy because I don't have a 4 jaw chuck.
Re: Threading a barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow that's ridiculous, now I may have to bug my buddy because I don't have a 4 jaw chuck. </div></div>
I think you are in way over your head.
You don't need to remove the barrel from the action
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow that's ridiculous, now I may have to bug my buddy because I don't have a 4 jaw chuck. </div></div>
I think you are in way over your head.
You don't need to remove the barrel from the action
Re: Threading a barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gundoktr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow that's ridiculous, now I may have to bug my buddy because I don't have a 4 jaw chuck. </div></div>
I think you are in way over your head.
You don't need to remove the barrel from the action </div></div>
Thats kind of what I was thinking.
Send it to a professional, who does it for a living. You'll be glad you did,,,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gundoktr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow that's ridiculous, now I may have to bug my buddy because I don't have a 4 jaw chuck. </div></div>
I think you are in way over your head.
You don't need to remove the barrel from the action </div></div>
Thats kind of what I was thinking.
Send it to a professional, who does it for a living. You'll be glad you did,,,
Re: Threading a barrel?
I did mine on the lathe at work last week. If you're a good machinist then you will have no trouble learning the ropes of gunsmithing. There's a lot of "black magic" and mystery that floats around but in the end it just boils down to accurate machining.
The way I did it: I turned a thread protector for the breech threads, and cut the threads holding the barrel between centers, with a lathe dog driving on the thread protector. My barrel already had a 60-deg center on the breech end from when it was chambered and profiled, so I just had to lightly cut a 60-deg center on the muzzle end. To cut the 60-deg center on the muzzle I just spun it slowly in the 3-jaw chuck with copper shims, and dialed off the bore to make sure it was close (<0.002" TIR). The beauty of this method is that even if you're not exactly true cutting the 60-deg center, the angular cant between the centers is so small as to be negligible.
This method works fine, its about as accurate as any are and saves a lot of work with a 4-jaw and dial indicators.
You will need to re-cut the crown after you're done, use a piloted crown cutter or a steady rest adjusted to moderate touch and its no problem.
I did mine on the lathe at work last week. If you're a good machinist then you will have no trouble learning the ropes of gunsmithing. There's a lot of "black magic" and mystery that floats around but in the end it just boils down to accurate machining.
The way I did it: I turned a thread protector for the breech threads, and cut the threads holding the barrel between centers, with a lathe dog driving on the thread protector. My barrel already had a 60-deg center on the breech end from when it was chambered and profiled, so I just had to lightly cut a 60-deg center on the muzzle end. To cut the 60-deg center on the muzzle I just spun it slowly in the 3-jaw chuck with copper shims, and dialed off the bore to make sure it was close (<0.002" TIR). The beauty of this method is that even if you're not exactly true cutting the 60-deg center, the angular cant between the centers is so small as to be negligible.
This method works fine, its about as accurate as any are and saves a lot of work with a 4-jaw and dial indicators.
You will need to re-cut the crown after you're done, use a piloted crown cutter or a steady rest adjusted to moderate touch and its no problem.
Re: Threading a barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One other thing, once I remove the barrel, is there a special procedure to re install it the same way? I assume it should be indexed? Or just mark where it comes off in relation to the receiver. </div></div>
The rem 700 barrels are "indexed" off the shoulder of the barrel tenon. When you put it back on it will go back to the same spot when it tightens up. Just make sure not to switch recoil lugs or get paint on the shoulder and it will be fine.
Getting the barrel OFF on the other hand is something I always have trouble with. Most gunsmiths would probably not take the barrel off to turn threads on it, but they have somewhat more specialized equipment such as 4-jaw chucks with tapered collars and lathe spiders to help dial it in. If you're planning to do several it might be worth making some of those pieces but for just one I'd pull the barrel and thread it between centers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One other thing, once I remove the barrel, is there a special procedure to re install it the same way? I assume it should be indexed? Or just mark where it comes off in relation to the receiver. </div></div>
The rem 700 barrels are "indexed" off the shoulder of the barrel tenon. When you put it back on it will go back to the same spot when it tightens up. Just make sure not to switch recoil lugs or get paint on the shoulder and it will be fine.
Getting the barrel OFF on the other hand is something I always have trouble with. Most gunsmiths would probably not take the barrel off to turn threads on it, but they have somewhat more specialized equipment such as 4-jaw chucks with tapered collars and lathe spiders to help dial it in. If you're planning to do several it might be worth making some of those pieces but for just one I'd pull the barrel and thread it between centers.
Re: Threading a barrel?
PS - I'm not a gunsmith, just a regular guy that does quite a bit of machining and most of the work on my own rifles.
PS - I'm not a gunsmith, just a regular guy that does quite a bit of machining and most of the work on my own rifles.
Re: Threading a barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coyote223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Send it to a professional, who does it for a living. You'll be glad you did,,, </div></div>
6-8 weeks later and still sitting without a rifle you may be wishing you had at least given it a try. Worst case scenario you muck it up and send it out, then they chop an inch off the end and fix it for you.
If you do attempt it just be safe and check the bore diameter and clearances with the brake or suppressor before firing it. It would be a good idea to verify the headspace is okay if you take the barrel off just as standard practice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coyote223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Send it to a professional, who does it for a living. You'll be glad you did,,, </div></div>
6-8 weeks later and still sitting without a rifle you may be wishing you had at least given it a try. Worst case scenario you muck it up and send it out, then they chop an inch off the end and fix it for you.
If you do attempt it just be safe and check the bore diameter and clearances with the brake or suppressor before firing it. It would be a good idea to verify the headspace is okay if you take the barrel off just as standard practice.
Re: Threading a barrel?
with the right lathe and setup, you shouldn't need to remove the barrel. if you only have access to a 3-jaw chuck, i would avoid this project. you could do it between centers if you removed the receiver. many people have been successful with this method but i still think there is a much better way.
you can get an idea of how i do it by clicking on the links in my signature. the way i do it is certainly not the only way but i feel it is the best way.
with the right lathe and setup, you shouldn't need to remove the barrel. if you only have access to a 3-jaw chuck, i would avoid this project. you could do it between centers if you removed the receiver. many people have been successful with this method but i still think there is a much better way.
you can get an idea of how i do it by clicking on the links in my signature. the way i do it is certainly not the only way but i feel it is the best way.
Re: Threading a barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">with the right lathe and setup, you shouldn't need to remove the barrel. if you only have access to a 3-jaw chuck, i would avoid this project. you could do it between centers if you removed the receiver. many people have been successful with this method but i still think there is a much better way.
you can get an idea of how i do it by clicking on the links in my signature. the way i do it is certainly not the only way but i feel it is the best way. </div></div>
300Sniper - Awesome build thread, not sure how I missed that one the first time around. All the set-ups look very rigid and accurate.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">with the right lathe and setup, you shouldn't need to remove the barrel. if you only have access to a 3-jaw chuck, i would avoid this project. you could do it between centers if you removed the receiver. many people have been successful with this method but i still think there is a much better way.
you can get an idea of how i do it by clicking on the links in my signature. the way i do it is certainly not the only way but i feel it is the best way. </div></div>
300Sniper - Awesome build thread, not sure how I missed that one the first time around. All the set-ups look very rigid and accurate.
Re: Threading a barrel?
It almost looks like I could just remove the trigger and swallow the receiver in a 4 jaw (if I can get access to one) and a rest at the barrel end. I dont really want to touch the crown
It almost looks like I could just remove the trigger and swallow the receiver in a 4 jaw (if I can get access to one) and a rest at the barrel end. I dont really want to touch the crown
Re: Threading a barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It almost looks like I could just remove the trigger and swallow the receiver in a 4 jaw (if I can get access to one) and a rest at the barrel end. I dont really want to touch the crown </div></div>
You could definitely do that if you have the time and patience to set it up right. A pair of dial indicators on a tight fitted rod in the bore will let you know when its right if you go that route.
While you're threading it never hurts to touch up the crown, don't be afraid of the crown its pretty forgiving as long as it's concentric and symmetric.
Also if your 3-jaw is reasonably accurate you could probably do it in a 3-jaw and the steady rest the same way, the long angle of the barrel helps you out with accuracy here and you should be able to get it within a thou. Measure and if its not looking right then abort.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It almost looks like I could just remove the trigger and swallow the receiver in a 4 jaw (if I can get access to one) and a rest at the barrel end. I dont really want to touch the crown </div></div>
You could definitely do that if you have the time and patience to set it up right. A pair of dial indicators on a tight fitted rod in the bore will let you know when its right if you go that route.
While you're threading it never hurts to touch up the crown, don't be afraid of the crown its pretty forgiving as long as it's concentric and symmetric.
Also if your 3-jaw is reasonably accurate you could probably do it in a 3-jaw and the steady rest the same way, the long angle of the barrel helps you out with accuracy here and you should be able to get it within a thou. Measure and if its not looking right then abort.
Re: Threading a barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It almost looks like I could just remove the trigger and swallow the receiver in a 4 jaw (if I can get access to one) and a rest at the barrel end. I dont really want to touch the crown </div></div>
i wouldn't run the steady rest on the untrued od of the barrel since it will not be true to the bore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It almost looks like I could just remove the trigger and swallow the receiver in a 4 jaw (if I can get access to one) and a rest at the barrel end. I dont really want to touch the crown </div></div>
i wouldn't run the steady rest on the untrued od of the barrel since it will not be true to the bore.
Re: Threading a barrel?
To the OP, threading a muzzle for a suppressor is best done without using the steady rest or having the barrel between centers.
I saw a rifle once that had a muzzle break installed by the hack using a three jaw chuck and die nut. That was a work of art to say the least
Here are a few things that might come in hady;
1. Four Jaw Chuck
2. Outboard Spider
3. Caliber specific Range Rod
4. Proper Fitting Bushing for the Range Rod / Bore
5. Good quality Indicator, .0001" Indicator preferably
6. Sharp, indexible, single point style tooling
7. Class 3A or 2A certified ring guage
8. The knowledge to use the above tools
To the OP, threading a muzzle for a suppressor is best done without using the steady rest or having the barrel between centers.
I saw a rifle once that had a muzzle break installed by the hack using a three jaw chuck and die nut. That was a work of art to say the least
Here are a few things that might come in hady;
1. Four Jaw Chuck
2. Outboard Spider
3. Caliber specific Range Rod
4. Proper Fitting Bushing for the Range Rod / Bore
5. Good quality Indicator, .0001" Indicator preferably
6. Sharp, indexible, single point style tooling
7. Class 3A or 2A certified ring guage
8. The knowledge to use the above tools
Re: Threading a barrel?
What he said and a good turning (Lathe) tools for turning the thread diameter,undercutting the thread relief (minor diameter) at the shoulder and cutting a new crown on your barrel. It's not a hard job IF you have a minimum of tools and the knowledge to use them.
A lathe with back gears is a plus to work and a moderate speed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the OP, threading a muzzle for a suppressor is best done without using the steady rest or having the barrel between centers.
I saw a rifle once that had a muzzle break installed by the hack using a three jaw chuck and die nut. That was a work of art to say the least
Here are a few things that might come in hady;
1. Four Jaw Chuck
2. Outboard Spider
3. Caliber specific Range Rod
4. Proper Fitting Bushing for the Range Rod / Bore
5. Good quality Indicator, .0001" Indicator preferably
6. Sharp, indexible, single point style tooling
7. Class 3A or 2A certified ring guage
8. The knowledge to use the above tools
</div></div>
What he said and a good turning (Lathe) tools for turning the thread diameter,undercutting the thread relief (minor diameter) at the shoulder and cutting a new crown on your barrel. It's not a hard job IF you have a minimum of tools and the knowledge to use them.
A lathe with back gears is a plus to work and a moderate speed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the OP, threading a muzzle for a suppressor is best done without using the steady rest or having the barrel between centers.
I saw a rifle once that had a muzzle break installed by the hack using a three jaw chuck and die nut. That was a work of art to say the least
Here are a few things that might come in hady;
1. Four Jaw Chuck
2. Outboard Spider
3. Caliber specific Range Rod
4. Proper Fitting Bushing for the Range Rod / Bore
5. Good quality Indicator, .0001" Indicator preferably
6. Sharp, indexible, single point style tooling
7. Class 3A or 2A certified ring guage
8. The knowledge to use the above tools
</div></div>
Re: Threading a barrel?
There are lots of machinist books, each with a couple pages on how to cut threads.
I read that stuff and then practiced on scrap for a couple hours.
First on plastic pipe.
Then on Aluminum.
Then on steel.
Then some nasty hard stainless steel.
This old Winchester stainless take off barrel was so hard to cut threads on, that I could only cut .001" per pass.
http://www.amazon.com/Machining-Fundamentals-Basic-Advanced-Techniques/dp/1566376629
This book was the text book for my brother at Highline College 30 years ago. I got a copy 10 years ago. I told Joe about it. His review on his web site and on Amazon is better than I can write.
I ignored that book the first time I cut internal [female] threads and thought I could figure it out on the fly. I wound up with left hand threads. It is easier to cook book a little at the beginning.
There are lots of machinist books, each with a couple pages on how to cut threads.
I read that stuff and then practiced on scrap for a couple hours.
First on plastic pipe.
Then on Aluminum.
Then on steel.
Then some nasty hard stainless steel.
This old Winchester stainless take off barrel was so hard to cut threads on, that I could only cut .001" per pass.
http://www.amazon.com/Machining-Fundamentals-Basic-Advanced-Techniques/dp/1566376629
This book was the text book for my brother at Highline College 30 years ago. I got a copy 10 years ago. I told Joe about it. His review on his web site and on Amazon is better than I can write.
I ignored that book the first time I cut internal [female] threads and thought I could figure it out on the fly. I wound up with left hand threads. It is easier to cook book a little at the beginning.
Re: Threading a barrel?
I was thinking that I could make a bushing that would go in the chamber with a taper on the face for the dead center, and run a live center in the muzzle end. This seems to be a fairly good method, has anyone done something similar?
I was thinking that I could make a bushing that would go in the chamber with a taper on the face for the dead center, and run a live center in the muzzle end. This seems to be a fairly good method, has anyone done something similar?
Re: Threading a barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking that I could make a bushing that would go in the chamber with a taper on the face for the dead center, and run a live center in the muzzle end. This seems to be a fairly good method, has anyone done something similar? </div></div>
That is the exact method my smith just used to install a muzzle break for me. I have not shot the gun yet, but to my eye, it looks like a great job and he has 25+ years of gunsmithing/metalwork, so I took his advice and let him run with it. Hope it worked out, and would like to hear others opinions of this method.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 358Mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking that I could make a bushing that would go in the chamber with a taper on the face for the dead center, and run a live center in the muzzle end. This seems to be a fairly good method, has anyone done something similar? </div></div>
That is the exact method my smith just used to install a muzzle break for me. I have not shot the gun yet, but to my eye, it looks like a great job and he has 25+ years of gunsmithing/metalwork, so I took his advice and let him run with it. Hope it worked out, and would like to hear others opinions of this method.
