Gunsmithing threading tools
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Re: threading tools
if you don't have a quick change tool post yet, you need one! enco has the phaseII sets on sale regularly. they are affordable and work just fine. i use the wedge style.
if you don't have a quick change tool post yet, you need one! enco has the phaseII sets on sale regularly. they are affordable and work just fine. i use the wedge style.
Re: threading tools
Indexable carbide is the way to go. A quick change toolpost is also best. The best prices that I have found is from CDCO Machinery Corp. They have some real good prices on several different items.
Indexable carbide is the way to go. A quick change toolpost is also best. The best prices that I have found is from CDCO Machinery Corp. They have some real good prices on several different items.
Re: threading tools
Indexable Carmex as shown above with partial profile inserts.
For gods sake man, splurge a little and get the QC tool post
Indexable Carmex as shown above with partial profile inserts.
For gods sake man, splurge a little and get the QC tool post
Re: threading tools
+1000000 on the indexable inserts....
Only a hobby for me, but I have cut threads on both ends of 2 SS and one CM barrel with the same tip.... still cutting beautiful threads and shows no wear.....
+1000000 on the indexable inserts....
Only a hobby for me, but I have cut threads on both ends of 2 SS and one CM barrel with the same tip.... still cutting beautiful threads and shows no wear.....
Re: threading tools
I use the Kennametal "Top Notch" tool and inserts , they work great and last a long time , I need to get a smaller tool for finer threads but I rarely cut anything under 16 TIP at work so the one I have works fine
I have a holder that uses the triangle inserts but they stand upright just never got around to getting any inserts for it
I use the Kennametal "Top Notch" tool and inserts , they work great and last a long time , I need to get a smaller tool for finer threads but I rarely cut anything under 16 TIP at work so the one I have works fine
I have a holder that uses the triangle inserts but they stand upright just never got around to getting any inserts for it
Re: threading tools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the Kennametal "Top Notch" tool and inserts , they work great and last a long time , I need to get a smaller tool for finer threads but I rarely cut anything under 16 TIP at work so the one I have works fine
I have a holder that uses the triangle inserts but they stand upright just never got around to getting any inserts for it </div></div>
I also use kennametal...
it's worth mentioning that I believe you can use the same insert for internal threading, as you can for the external tool...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the Kennametal "Top Notch" tool and inserts , they work great and last a long time , I need to get a smaller tool for finer threads but I rarely cut anything under 16 TIP at work so the one I have works fine
I have a holder that uses the triangle inserts but they stand upright just never got around to getting any inserts for it </div></div>
I also use kennametal...
it's worth mentioning that I believe you can use the same insert for internal threading, as you can for the external tool...
Re: threading tools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>
I also use kennametal...
it's worth mentioning that I believe you can use the same insert for internal threading, as you can for the external tool...[/quote]
Not for the Top Notch inserts they are Right and Left designated , for instance I use a NTP3R for outside threads and a NTP3L for the inside , the groove for the clamp is at the opposite angle.
this is part of a reason that alot of guys like the laydown triangles I think , I've seen a couple (not sure which) that the inside and outside were interchangable
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>
I also use kennametal...
it's worth mentioning that I believe you can use the same insert for internal threading, as you can for the external tool...[/quote]
Not for the Top Notch inserts they are Right and Left designated , for instance I use a NTP3R for outside threads and a NTP3L for the inside , the groove for the clamp is at the opposite angle.
this is part of a reason that alot of guys like the laydown triangles I think , I've seen a couple (not sure which) that the inside and outside were interchangable
Re: threading tools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not for the Top Notch inserts they are Right and Left designated , for instance I use a NTP3R for outside threads and a NTP3L for the inside , the groove for the clamp is at the opposite angle.
this is part of a reason that alot of guys like the laydown triangles I think , I've seen a couple (not sure which) that the inside and outside were interchangable </div></div>
i think a right hand external lay down threading insert is the same as an internal left hand and vice versa.
i sometimes use my internal threading tool on the back side of the part with the spindle in reverse to cut a right hand thread away from the shoulder.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not for the Top Notch inserts they are Right and Left designated , for instance I use a NTP3R for outside threads and a NTP3L for the inside , the groove for the clamp is at the opposite angle.
this is part of a reason that alot of guys like the laydown triangles I think , I've seen a couple (not sure which) that the inside and outside were interchangable </div></div>
i think a right hand external lay down threading insert is the same as an internal left hand and vice versa.
i sometimes use my internal threading tool on the back side of the part with the spindle in reverse to cut a right hand thread away from the shoulder.
Re: threading tools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i sometimes use my internal threading tool on the back side of the part with the spindle in reverse to cut a right hand thread away from the shoulder. </div></div>
I do almost the same thing.
I ran the outside cutter upside down and the spindle backwards to do a barrel this weekend. Much nicer threads can be had when the surface speed is correct, but I've never felt comfortable running an acutual threading job up against a shoulder at 500+ rpm.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i sometimes use my internal threading tool on the back side of the part with the spindle in reverse to cut a right hand thread away from the shoulder. </div></div>
I do almost the same thing.
I ran the outside cutter upside down and the spindle backwards to do a barrel this weekend. Much nicer threads can be had when the surface speed is correct, but I've never felt comfortable running an acutual threading job up against a shoulder at 500+ rpm.
Re: threading tools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never felt comfortable running an acutual threading job up against a shoulder at 500+ rpm. </div></div>
AMEN! Thats a major reason I still use HSS ground tools for threading. Good surface finish at 50-100 rpms and a lot easier to stop it in the relief, especially on the inside.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never felt comfortable running an acutual threading job up against a shoulder at 500+ rpm. </div></div>
AMEN! Thats a major reason I still use HSS ground tools for threading. Good surface finish at 50-100 rpms and a lot easier to stop it in the relief, especially on the inside.
Re: threading tools
You have to know what you are doing to use Kennametal, I dont.
Back in the 80s I tried them with not good results, my tool supplier told me I wasnt cutting fast enough. He gave me a little slide rule thingie that gave you turning speeds. But the max speed on my lathe is 2000 RPM. The guide says that want fast enough but I tried it anyway. I put in the Kennametal inserts and let her rip. Started a friggin fire in my shop, those chips come off the lathe red hot.
No Sir, I'll stick to HSS and do my machining the old fashion way, I'll leave the facny stuff to you pros who know what you're doing. I'm not in to make a living so I have the time to waste.
You have to know what you are doing to use Kennametal, I dont.
Back in the 80s I tried them with not good results, my tool supplier told me I wasnt cutting fast enough. He gave me a little slide rule thingie that gave you turning speeds. But the max speed on my lathe is 2000 RPM. The guide says that want fast enough but I tried it anyway. I put in the Kennametal inserts and let her rip. Started a friggin fire in my shop, those chips come off the lathe red hot.
No Sir, I'll stick to HSS and do my machining the old fashion way, I'll leave the facny stuff to you pros who know what you're doing. I'm not in to make a living so I have the time to waste.
Re: threading tools
There is the rub. Do I need to run at 500 rpm to thread with a carbide single point tool? If that is the case, then HSS it is.
My lathe only goes to 800RPM or so. I bought it because I can use the back gears and turn it at 21rpm to thread. I have tried high speed threading long ago, and I am no fan. Last thing I want to do is crash a tool into a $300 barrel or a $900 action.
There is the rub. Do I need to run at 500 rpm to thread with a carbide single point tool? If that is the case, then HSS it is.
My lathe only goes to 800RPM or so. I bought it because I can use the back gears and turn it at 21rpm to thread. I have tried high speed threading long ago, and I am no fan. Last thing I want to do is crash a tool into a $300 barrel or a $900 action.
Re: threading tools
I take light passes and thread at amateur speed with the Kenametal. I don't like threading fast, since I'm not that coordinated. Perhaps I should go faster, but I'm not going to do so. If I want to go to the shoulder, I just cheat. I turn off the lathe and turn it by hand. I'm not a big fan of train wrecks.
The on-edge inserts are really sharp and will take a big bite very quickly (found that out the hard way). They cut a pretty thread though.
I take light passes and thread at amateur speed with the Kenametal. I don't like threading fast, since I'm not that coordinated. Perhaps I should go faster, but I'm not going to do so. If I want to go to the shoulder, I just cheat. I turn off the lathe and turn it by hand. I'm not a big fan of train wrecks.
The on-edge inserts are really sharp and will take a big bite very quickly (found that out the hard way). They cut a pretty thread though.
Re: threading tools
with the inserts i use, i have threaded as low as 70 rpm but usually thread at 300 rpm. the results at 70 rpm are fine but 300 rpm is better and much faster. i usually only feed in my compound .005" per pass so 70 rpm takes for ever. once you get the hang of it, you can get close to a shoulder. 300 rpm is as fast as i am comfortable threading to a shoulder at 16 tpi.
with the inserts i use, i have threaded as low as 70 rpm but usually thread at 300 rpm. the results at 70 rpm are fine but 300 rpm is better and much faster. i usually only feed in my compound .005" per pass so 70 rpm takes for ever. once you get the hang of it, you can get close to a shoulder. 300 rpm is as fast as i am comfortable threading to a shoulder at 16 tpi.
Re: threading tools
you can use the carbide inserts at lower RPM's just the finish won't be quite as nice , you can help this with good oil , I like Moly-Dee and Tap Magic "exrta thick"
I've done alot of threading and made some very nice parts with an old Aloris threading tool , again use a good thick oil and take your time.
Threading against a shoulder at 300-500RPM's can be a little unnerving but I setup a dial and watch that at the end rather than the tool , hand on half nut as soon as it runs back to 0 drop the half nut out
you can use the carbide inserts at lower RPM's just the finish won't be quite as nice , you can help this with good oil , I like Moly-Dee and Tap Magic "exrta thick"
I've done alot of threading and made some very nice parts with an old Aloris threading tool , again use a good thick oil and take your time.
Threading against a shoulder at 300-500RPM's can be a little unnerving but I setup a dial and watch that at the end rather than the tool , hand on half nut as soon as it runs back to 0 drop the half nut out
Re: threading tools
Using production type tooling on a manual, takes a person.
Moly Dee is great for form tapping, or pipe threads.
Have you tried Alumicut for alum?
Plain old black oil works good for most.
Have holders for many styles.
Using production type tooling on a manual, takes a person.
Moly Dee is great for form tapping, or pipe threads.
Have you tried Alumicut for alum?
Plain old black oil works good for most.
Have holders for many styles.
Re: threading tools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can use the carbide inserts at lower RPM's just the finish won't be quite as nice , you can help this with good oil , I like Moly-Dee and Tap Magic "exrta thick"
I've done alot of threading and made some very nice parts with an old Aloris threading tool , again use a good thick oil and take your time.
Threading against a shoulder at 300-500RPM's can be a little unnerving but I setup a dial and watch that at the end rather than the tool , hand on half nut as soon as it runs back to 0 drop the half nut out </div></div>
i had been using a dial indicator as a travel gauge when threading since i began working with a lathe. when i started, i had heard about putting a sharpie mark on the lathe bed at the point you want to disengage the half nut but never did like the idea. i figured a dial indicator would give better warning as you get close. the sharpie mark on the lathe bed was recommended to me again recently by mr. roscoe so i decided to give it a try. i was missing out the whole time. i now think a simple mark on the lathe bed at the point you want to disengage the half nut is much easier than the dial indicator method. if you haven't tried it, i suggest do and make up your own mind if it is better/easier or not. it sure was for me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you can use the carbide inserts at lower RPM's just the finish won't be quite as nice , you can help this with good oil , I like Moly-Dee and Tap Magic "exrta thick"
I've done alot of threading and made some very nice parts with an old Aloris threading tool , again use a good thick oil and take your time.
Threading against a shoulder at 300-500RPM's can be a little unnerving but I setup a dial and watch that at the end rather than the tool , hand on half nut as soon as it runs back to 0 drop the half nut out </div></div>
i had been using a dial indicator as a travel gauge when threading since i began working with a lathe. when i started, i had heard about putting a sharpie mark on the lathe bed at the point you want to disengage the half nut but never did like the idea. i figured a dial indicator would give better warning as you get close. the sharpie mark on the lathe bed was recommended to me again recently by mr. roscoe so i decided to give it a try. i was missing out the whole time. i now think a simple mark on the lathe bed at the point you want to disengage the half nut is much easier than the dial indicator method. if you haven't tried it, i suggest do and make up your own mind if it is better/easier or not. it sure was for me.
Re: threading tools
I use the Nikole tool holder w/inserts.
For years I used the HSS threading bits I custom made as that was how I was taught.
Brownells sells a nice threading HSS bit that is cut to the left side to get close to a shoulder that I used as well.
I switched to the Nikole to speed things up a bit and be more efficient with my time. Now I do not need to sharpen. I just flip the bit over and keep going.
I started using the old Armstrong tool posts. Restting the tool every tool change was wearing on me.
Once a QC tool post was acquired, it was like the giddy feeling kids get on the last day of school before summer.
Try and make "working" as easy and as fun as possible.
I use the Nikole tool holder w/inserts.
For years I used the HSS threading bits I custom made as that was how I was taught.
Brownells sells a nice threading HSS bit that is cut to the left side to get close to a shoulder that I used as well.
I switched to the Nikole to speed things up a bit and be more efficient with my time. Now I do not need to sharpen. I just flip the bit over and keep going.
I started using the old Armstrong tool posts. Restting the tool every tool change was wearing on me.
Once a QC tool post was acquired, it was like the giddy feeling kids get on the last day of school before summer.
Try and make "working" as easy and as fun as possible.
Re: threading tools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Threading against a shoulder at 300-500RPM's can be a little unnerving but I setup a dial and watch that at the end rather than the tool , hand on half nut as soon as it runs back to 0 drop the half nut out </div></div>
I used to think that about 200rpm but now find it a tad slow, I'll be switching gears real soon and threading at 300+rpm.
300,
Watching that sharpie mark is easier than a travel dial for me, glad it worked for you as well. "Trilogymac" here on the hide shared that with me one day, sure am glad he did.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Threading against a shoulder at 300-500RPM's can be a little unnerving but I setup a dial and watch that at the end rather than the tool , hand on half nut as soon as it runs back to 0 drop the half nut out </div></div>
I used to think that about 200rpm but now find it a tad slow, I'll be switching gears real soon and threading at 300+rpm.
300,
Watching that sharpie mark is easier than a travel dial for me, glad it worked for you as well. "Trilogymac" here on the hide shared that with me one day, sure am glad he did.
Re: threading tools
Bite the bullet, invest in a QC post and insertable tooling. It will be less expensive in the long run.
Kennametal's Top Notch system works well. I have sold this system to several rifle builders thru the years. With the neagative lead angle built into the tool holder, the holder generates its own clearance against a shoulder at the end of a threaded diameter so you can thread close to the shoulder. The NTK-2R inserts work well for barrel threading applications. They have an offset cutting tip that will enable you to thread close to a shoulder; a positive rake that will cut the material more freely than a neutral rake; and are available in PVD coated grades with will cut better at slow speeds. In addition, you can change from a threading insert to a grooving insert using the same holder. KC730 used to be the best for threading barrels, but I beleive it has been replaced by a new and improved grade, KC5025. Kennametal quality can be a little pricey, such as at list price thru MSC. You may want to try the Carbide Depot in AL, they sell a lot via a web site at pretty good pricing.
Another good choice is Tungaloy's lay down ST threading tools in their AH740 grade. However you will need a seperate tool holder for grooving tools, as they do not interchange.
In most threading systems, you will need a RH insert for RH OD threads and grooves, and a LH insert for RH ID threads and grooves.
If you have any questions about the Tungaloy sysetm, let me know. I have been away from the Kennametal brand for some time, so am less up to date on their products.
Bite the bullet, invest in a QC post and insertable tooling. It will be less expensive in the long run.
Kennametal's Top Notch system works well. I have sold this system to several rifle builders thru the years. With the neagative lead angle built into the tool holder, the holder generates its own clearance against a shoulder at the end of a threaded diameter so you can thread close to the shoulder. The NTK-2R inserts work well for barrel threading applications. They have an offset cutting tip that will enable you to thread close to a shoulder; a positive rake that will cut the material more freely than a neutral rake; and are available in PVD coated grades with will cut better at slow speeds. In addition, you can change from a threading insert to a grooving insert using the same holder. KC730 used to be the best for threading barrels, but I beleive it has been replaced by a new and improved grade, KC5025. Kennametal quality can be a little pricey, such as at list price thru MSC. You may want to try the Carbide Depot in AL, they sell a lot via a web site at pretty good pricing.
Another good choice is Tungaloy's lay down ST threading tools in their AH740 grade. However you will need a seperate tool holder for grooving tools, as they do not interchange.
In most threading systems, you will need a RH insert for RH OD threads and grooves, and a LH insert for RH ID threads and grooves.
If you have any questions about the Tungaloy sysetm, let me know. I have been away from the Kennametal brand for some time, so am less up to date on their products.
Re: threading tools
I have a Dorian QC tool post set, its great. It came with a stand up insert for od threading and a lay down insert for id threading on the same tool holder like this http://www.rex-supply.com/cgi/CGPTSRIM?P...O=09_02_019_001
And threading to a sholder at speed just makes you better, the more you do it the faster you want to go. Any thing above 300RPM keeps you on your toes. Oh the inserts are 10-15 bucks a pop with 3 cutting edges so keep that in mind.
I have a Dorian QC tool post set, its great. It came with a stand up insert for od threading and a lay down insert for id threading on the same tool holder like this http://www.rex-supply.com/cgi/CGPTSRIM?P...O=09_02_019_001
And threading to a sholder at speed just makes you better, the more you do it the faster you want to go. Any thing above 300RPM keeps you on your toes. Oh the inserts are 10-15 bucks a pop with 3 cutting edges so keep that in mind.
Re: threading tools
Thanks guys. I'll be looking around for deals. I just saw Enco had QC toolposts on sale, and every once in awhile, I get a ad from MSC that stuff is %40 off. Phase II stuff OK? I have seen it mentioned before. Also, is there a preference between piston or wedge style, or any reason to go with one over the other?
Thanks guys. I'll be looking around for deals. I just saw Enco had QC toolposts on sale, and every once in awhile, I get a ad from MSC that stuff is %40 off. Phase II stuff OK? I have seen it mentioned before. Also, is there a preference between piston or wedge style, or any reason to go with one over the other?
Re: threading tools
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BeachGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys. I'll be looking around for deals. I just saw Enco had QC toolposts on sale, and every once in awhile, I get a ad from MSC that stuff is %40 off. Phase II stuff OK? I have seen it mentioned before. Also, is there a preference between piston or wedge style, or any reason to go with one over the other? </div></div>
the phase II works just fine. i got the wedge style because people said it was the one to get. i honestly have no idea what makes it better but it works fine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BeachGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys. I'll be looking around for deals. I just saw Enco had QC toolposts on sale, and every once in awhile, I get a ad from MSC that stuff is %40 off. Phase II stuff OK? I have seen it mentioned before. Also, is there a preference between piston or wedge style, or any reason to go with one over the other? </div></div>
the phase II works just fine. i got the wedge style because people said it was the one to get. i honestly have no idea what makes it better but it works fine.
Re: threading tools
doesen't realy matter if its piston or wedge , some swear that the wedge is better as it forces the holder to come in tight against the dovetail , same can be said for the piston that it puts even pressure on both dove tails , I personaly like the Dorian piston style that the piston pushed out of one of the dove tails so it kind of gets both of best worlds.
Phase II is decient , their post to holder fit generaly is not a tight as the Aloris or Dorian but as long as its consistant it doesen't realy matter. Also aloris holders will fit on the Phase II post with no trouble but I have seen Hase II holders not fit on the Aloris post in some cases again slight differance in QC I guess , but generaly they are interchaneable with the same sizes. Get extra holders , theirs no reason to have to take a tool out of the holder , think about all the cutting tools you use and get a holder for each they buy a couple extra as you run accross them on E-bay.
doesen't realy matter if its piston or wedge , some swear that the wedge is better as it forces the holder to come in tight against the dovetail , same can be said for the piston that it puts even pressure on both dove tails , I personaly like the Dorian piston style that the piston pushed out of one of the dove tails so it kind of gets both of best worlds.
Phase II is decient , their post to holder fit generaly is not a tight as the Aloris or Dorian but as long as its consistant it doesen't realy matter. Also aloris holders will fit on the Phase II post with no trouble but I have seen Hase II holders not fit on the Aloris post in some cases again slight differance in QC I guess , but generaly they are interchaneable with the same sizes. Get extra holders , theirs no reason to have to take a tool out of the holder , think about all the cutting tools you use and get a holder for each they buy a couple extra as you run accross them on E-bay.
