Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
- Thread starter rrflyer
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Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
Frank actually has a video on YouTube that offers a few helpful tips on trigger control, follow through, and body position. I'm sure there is more in the paid training section. I'd link to it but I'm training for deployment and the internet SUCKS when I tether a hot spot from my phone.
If I had to choose one major thing to concentrate on that helps me most when I'm on my gas guns it would be follow through and trigger reset. Thats just me, I'm sure there are plenty of guys here that can elaborate.
Watch the video for sure!
C_K
Frank actually has a video on YouTube that offers a few helpful tips on trigger control, follow through, and body position. I'm sure there is more in the paid training section. I'd link to it but I'm training for deployment and the internet SUCKS when I tether a hot spot from my phone.
If I had to choose one major thing to concentrate on that helps me most when I'm on my gas guns it would be follow through and trigger reset. Thats just me, I'm sure there are plenty of guys here that can elaborate.
Watch the video for sure!
C_K
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] Follow through[*] Trigger reset[*] Getting behind the rifle correctly[*] Do not let the rifle recoil on a open bolt[*] Proper heavy cheek weld[*] Do not set cheek weld to Eye Relief use NTCH [*] Do not have a adjustable LOP stock Go with the A1 not the A2[*] Proper pistol grip that supports your trigger finger[/list]
Thats enough to kick over the ant hill for now.
John
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] Follow through[*] Trigger reset[*] Getting behind the rifle correctly[*] Do not let the rifle recoil on a open bolt[*] Proper heavy cheek weld[*] Do not set cheek weld to Eye Relief use NTCH [*] Do not have a adjustable LOP stock Go with the A1 not the A2[*] Proper pistol grip that supports your trigger finger[/list]
Thats enough to kick over the ant hill for now.
John
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
I should have one within the next week. I'd love to see that YouTube video if anyone has a link.
I should have one within the next week. I'd love to see that YouTube video if anyone has a link.
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] Follow through[*] Trigger reset[*] Getting behind the rifle correctly[*] Do not let the rifle recoil on a open bolt[*] Proper heavy cheek weld[*] Do not set cheek weld to Eye Relief use NTCH [*] Do not have a adjustable LOP stock Go with the A1 not the A2[*] Proper pistol grip that supports your trigger finger[/list]
Thats enough to kick over the ant hill for now.
John </div></div>
Do you mind clarifying what "NTCH" means?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] Follow through[*] Trigger reset[*] Getting behind the rifle correctly[*] Do not let the rifle recoil on a open bolt[*] Proper heavy cheek weld[*] Do not set cheek weld to Eye Relief use NTCH [*] Do not have a adjustable LOP stock Go with the A1 not the A2[*] Proper pistol grip that supports your trigger finger[/list]
Thats enough to kick over the ant hill for now.
John </div></div>
Do you mind clarifying what "NTCH" means?
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
Sorry guys, been at work.
NTCH = Nose To Charging Handle
Some have PM'ed me on why I push the A1 stock over all others.
I do this because this is on a precision rifle. I need a stock that rides the rear bag very well. the A1 and A2 do this.
The A1 is a shorter LOP so when getting directly behind the rifle the LOP is correct for a NTCH index point. Now once my index point is made, I can set the eye relief of the optic correctly. this also allows clearance for a BUIS and a clean pull on the charging handle.
Next optic mounts. The Badger 22 MOA base with low rings, is the best option I have found. The key here is that with the low rings you can go from a manually operated riflescope 20 MOA base to the 22 MOA base.
The mechanical offset difference between the manually and semi auto operated rifles is lost in the extra 2 MOA on the AR mount. Now you can run 1 riflescope 2 rifles and be less then 3 clicks from ZERO in elevation if both rifles and chambered in the same caliber.
this is VERY critical for a duty rifle or a match rifle setup thats a backup system. The rifle can go down, loosen the rings from the base and swap out the riflescope.
Try this setup out its the best way to roll I have found at this time.
John
Sorry guys, been at work.
NTCH = Nose To Charging Handle
Some have PM'ed me on why I push the A1 stock over all others.
I do this because this is on a precision rifle. I need a stock that rides the rear bag very well. the A1 and A2 do this.
The A1 is a shorter LOP so when getting directly behind the rifle the LOP is correct for a NTCH index point. Now once my index point is made, I can set the eye relief of the optic correctly. this also allows clearance for a BUIS and a clean pull on the charging handle.
Next optic mounts. The Badger 22 MOA base with low rings, is the best option I have found. The key here is that with the low rings you can go from a manually operated riflescope 20 MOA base to the 22 MOA base.
The mechanical offset difference between the manually and semi auto operated rifles is lost in the extra 2 MOA on the AR mount. Now you can run 1 riflescope 2 rifles and be less then 3 clicks from ZERO in elevation if both rifles and chambered in the same caliber.
this is VERY critical for a duty rifle or a match rifle setup thats a backup system. The rifle can go down, loosen the rings from the base and swap out the riflescope.
Try this setup out its the best way to roll I have found at this time.
John
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
NTCH is very popular with M4s, but I am too sure I would want to do that with a Precision Platform.
For off, with an M4, they are much smaller optics and smaller mounts, usually single throw. They also come in a variety of sizes and heights. I know I have a stack of GDI Mounts here, and they employ a short, medium and tall. So getting the proper eye relief is much easier.
Most good precision optics have about 3.5" of eye relief, to get that far forward on the top of a semi you have to have some sort of cantilever mount. A non-Monolithic upper only has about 8" front to back before you have to cross the upper receiver with the hand guard. So being able to set eye relief and cheek weld is much easier with a stock like a PRS. Not everyone will have the same bone structure as you (JB) so saying it works for you, may not work for others. An adjustable stock that you can adjust is always going to be preferred. This way you can set the rear of the scope some where over the charging handle, and still use that 3.5" Eye Relief.
NTCH is very popular with a 5.56, not sure I would do it in this context. I get it, you see a lot of people climb up on the M4 to get tight, but a precision Semi is a different animal, at least in my opinion. That said, if it works for you, I don't recommend changing, but the adjustments on a PRS should give you all the indexing you need. The stock is shouldered the cheek weld is established the eye relief and sight picture should have been adjusted perfect at that point. I know I use some pretty good sized optics on my Semi Autos, and without a cantilever mount no way I am getting them to fit on top of a semi without going past the hand guard. So, back a little works fine for me. Especially because I can adjust the stock.
Different strokes that is all...
NTCH is very popular with M4s, but I am too sure I would want to do that with a Precision Platform.
For off, with an M4, they are much smaller optics and smaller mounts, usually single throw. They also come in a variety of sizes and heights. I know I have a stack of GDI Mounts here, and they employ a short, medium and tall. So getting the proper eye relief is much easier.
Most good precision optics have about 3.5" of eye relief, to get that far forward on the top of a semi you have to have some sort of cantilever mount. A non-Monolithic upper only has about 8" front to back before you have to cross the upper receiver with the hand guard. So being able to set eye relief and cheek weld is much easier with a stock like a PRS. Not everyone will have the same bone structure as you (JB) so saying it works for you, may not work for others. An adjustable stock that you can adjust is always going to be preferred. This way you can set the rear of the scope some where over the charging handle, and still use that 3.5" Eye Relief.
NTCH is very popular with a 5.56, not sure I would do it in this context. I get it, you see a lot of people climb up on the M4 to get tight, but a precision Semi is a different animal, at least in my opinion. That said, if it works for you, I don't recommend changing, but the adjustments on a PRS should give you all the indexing you need. The stock is shouldered the cheek weld is established the eye relief and sight picture should have been adjusted perfect at that point. I know I use some pretty good sized optics on my Semi Autos, and without a cantilever mount no way I am getting them to fit on top of a semi without going past the hand guard. So, back a little works fine for me. Especially because I can adjust the stock.
Different strokes that is all...
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
And just a quick PS,
NTCH is great for standing, or in your case, you're well over 6ft tall, so with a short stock you can climb on top of the rifle. For people who use a stock where, standard is about as long as an A1 or A2, like me, that means i have to climb on top of it to get my nose to the charging handle. With an adjustable, or in many cases, collapsable stock like a SOPMOD, I can shorten it up and touch my nose to the charging handle but my optic is mounted well forward too. So again, I look at it as context in this case.
And just a quick PS,
NTCH is great for standing, or in your case, you're well over 6ft tall, so with a short stock you can climb on top of the rifle. For people who use a stock where, standard is about as long as an A1 or A2, like me, that means i have to climb on top of it to get my nose to the charging handle. With an adjustable, or in many cases, collapsable stock like a SOPMOD, I can shorten it up and touch my nose to the charging handle but my optic is mounted well forward too. So again, I look at it as context in this case.
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
Frank,
Great points.
This is what I have found for most <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"over 60% of students"</span></span>
The LOP on most of these AR platform stocks are the same for adjustment. Except the PRS and the A1. The A1 is shorter, and the PRS can go longer then the A2. The rest, M4 style, and so on top out at the A2 LOP I have found.
The NTCH idea I have found for me and most of the others is a solid index point in sling use, bi-pod and off axis shooting. Its kind of like the one of a few constant's in positional shooting that lets the shooter have the best eye relief in all positions.
Optic mounting.
YES you are 100% spot on. I have to bridge my handguard and upper with the Badger 22 MOA AR mount. But with that, I have two setups, a JP Rifles handguard, and a DD lite rail. Both Bad Ord mounts when mounted on the handguard 12 o'clock rail are directly over the locking nut. So its just a ridged as the upper.
Give it a try, you might like the idea, and see what I have found out. Then again, do not go and jack up a good rifle to test this
John
Frank,
Great points.
This is what I have found for most <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"over 60% of students"</span></span>
The LOP on most of these AR platform stocks are the same for adjustment. Except the PRS and the A1. The A1 is shorter, and the PRS can go longer then the A2. The rest, M4 style, and so on top out at the A2 LOP I have found.
The NTCH idea I have found for me and most of the others is a solid index point in sling use, bi-pod and off axis shooting. Its kind of like the one of a few constant's in positional shooting that lets the shooter have the best eye relief in all positions.
Optic mounting.
YES you are 100% spot on. I have to bridge my handguard and upper with the Badger 22 MOA AR mount. But with that, I have two setups, a JP Rifles handguard, and a DD lite rail. Both Bad Ord mounts when mounted on the handguard 12 o'clock rail are directly over the locking nut. So its just a ridged as the upper.
Give it a try, you might like the idea, and see what I have found out. Then again, do not go and jack up a good rifle to test this
John
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And just a quick PS,
NTCH is great for standing, or in your case, you're well over 6ft tall, so with a short stock you can climb on top of the rifle. For people who use a stock where, standard is about as long as an A1 or A2, like me, that means i have to climb on top of it to get my nose to the charging handle. With an adjustable, or in many cases, collapsable stock like a SOPMOD, I can shorten it up and touch my nose to the charging handle but my optic is mounted well forward too. So again, I look at it as context in this case. </div></div>
I guess that puts you in the lower 40% range
I love these talks, it opens minds and if it helps one guy, we did our job.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And just a quick PS,
NTCH is great for standing, or in your case, you're well over 6ft tall, so with a short stock you can climb on top of the rifle. For people who use a stock where, standard is about as long as an A1 or A2, like me, that means i have to climb on top of it to get my nose to the charging handle. With an adjustable, or in many cases, collapsable stock like a SOPMOD, I can shorten it up and touch my nose to the charging handle but my optic is mounted well forward too. So again, I look at it as context in this case. </div></div>
I guess that puts you in the lower 40% range
I love these talks, it opens minds and if it helps one guy, we did our job.
John
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
The knowledge base of the members (and proprietor) of this site is amazing.
The knowledge base of the members (and proprietor) of this site is amazing.
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
I took the on line training in the training section. Best $10.00 a month I ever spent. There is specific information on the AR platform.
I took the on line training in the training section. Best $10.00 a month I ever spent. There is specific information on the AR platform.
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
John, Lowlight, both of you show why the true monolithic uppers or Mod0 type continous rails are so popular with the AR crowd.
It is possible to have your cake and eat it too! Especially if you run magnified NV optics. Of course at night the PVS-22/24/27 solves a lot of problems, but not the one of money!
I have multiple lowers with collapsible stocks and one with a PRS, my nose just seeks that CH (training, training, training)! Thank goodness for the tight lock up of the SOPMOD and Magpul stocks.
John, Lowlight, both of you show why the true monolithic uppers or Mod0 type continous rails are so popular with the AR crowd.
It is possible to have your cake and eat it too! Especially if you run magnified NV optics. Of course at night the PVS-22/24/27 solves a lot of problems, but not the one of money!
I have multiple lowers with collapsible stocks and one with a PRS, my nose just seeks that CH (training, training, training)! Thank goodness for the tight lock up of the SOPMOD and Magpul stocks.
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
What did John mean by: "Don't let the rifle recoil on an open bolt."? Thanks...
What did John mean by: "Don't let the rifle recoil on an open bolt."? Thanks...
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: judgedelta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What did John mean by: "Don't let the rifle recoil on an open bolt."? Thanks... </div></div>
You can ask me, it does not have to be in the third person
I have found that if you shoot a string and the last round has a open bolt that round will not print with the others.
So I load the first round as a snap cap, or a dummy round and the other 19 are live. When I shoot all 19 rounds I have a fully cycled rifle on each recoil and no flyers unless I pull it.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: judgedelta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What did John mean by: "Don't let the rifle recoil on an open bolt."? Thanks... </div></div>
You can ask me, it does not have to be in the third person
I have found that if you shoot a string and the last round has a open bolt that round will not print with the others.
So I load the first round as a snap cap, or a dummy round and the other 19 are live. When I shoot all 19 rounds I have a fully cycled rifle on each recoil and no flyers unless I pull it.
John
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
Thanks. I can now say that I have learned something today. Thanks again...
Derek
Thanks. I can now say that I have learned something today. Thanks again...
Derek
Re: Tips on transitioning from a bolt to a gas gun.
Best advice I could give you is not to fire it just a few times and make it a safe queen. Shooting a precision auto well takes a whole lot of lead and dry firing one while helpful, doesn't give you the practice you really need to drive it correctly.
Shoot it, shoot it, and when you're tired shoot it some more.
Best advice I could give you is not to fire it just a few times and make it a safe queen. Shooting a precision auto well takes a whole lot of lead and dry firing one while helpful, doesn't give you the practice you really need to drive it correctly.
Shoot it, shoot it, and when you're tired shoot it some more.
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