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Tired of Companies who do not know the law

R

russ10x

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 30, 2011
325
2
66
Connecticut
This is a email I just sent CZ.
The situation here in Connecticut is terrible. Most firearm manufacturers, as well as online ammo dealers will not sell to anyone who lives in this state.
CZ has a sale on now.....3 five round magazines for CZ455s. Good deal. CZ will not sell them to me because I live in this state.
Many of you will say "well move out". Not that simple. The state says I cannot purchase magazines that exceed 10 rounds. They would be following the law.
My whole point is, this may affect you in the future. I hope not. But other CT residents in this forum need to voice their opinions to the companies. They have us by the tail now, and they are starting to squeeze.

"Sir
I am very disappointed at your company's policy of not selling any magazines to Connecticut Residents.
The current law states that magazines 10 rounds or less are perfectly legal to be sold here in this state. I wish to purchase 3-5 round magazines for my 455. You have a sale on now. For me to go through an FFL, totally negates any savings I would have with your sale.
Please, do what ever it takes to understand our law here in CT. If you are a 2nd Amendment supporter, as I believe you are, and if you wish not to isolate future sales here in Connecticut to law abiding citizens, you need to modify your policy.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Russ Chapman SSG USA (Ret)"
 
Last edited:
CZ doesn't normally sell direct to the public. They use the Distributor network. What site did you see this on and does that site sell to the public?
That site might be a FFL only site.
 
I'm with you Russ, Midway wouldn't sell ammo and mags a few months ago. I may not do business with them again.

I did just buy a 5 round poly mag at Newington Gun Exchange for $26.99 last week, if that helps.
 
You are on the right track with the letters. Squeeky wheel gets the grease. Part of the problem is that while the vocal minority has been out organizing and getting their message out the majority is too busy because they actually have jobs, lives, families and normal interests that occupy their time. We have reached this point through complacency. I consider myself guilty as charged.
 
Sgammo, Palmetto state armory, I know there are more but I haven't had enough coffee yet

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
The Gentleman from CZ wrote me back immediatly. NOTE: I am not putting blame on them. But there has to be a way around this legally, i.e. notorized copy of my permit to carry, which allows me to purchase ammo and mags/rifles here in Ct.
I am putting this out so I am fair to both sides...


Dear Mr. Chapman SSG USA (Ret),



I am writing in response to your email dated April 30 in which you express your displeasure with CZ-USA’s policy of not selling firearm magazines to Connecticut residents.



You are correct in your belief that we at CZ-USA are ardent supporters of the 2nd Amendment, and most of our employees are active members of shooting rights organizations on a local and national level. Additionally, we actively support the efforts of the NRA and NSSF to ensure the rights of Americans are not further eroded. Bear in mind that Dan Wesson Firearms is part of CZ-USA, and is located in New York, so we at CZ-USA know exactly how frustrating it is to live in state where the legislature is actively attacking your rights. However, no matter how much we disagree with state law, we are obligated to comply. This is not only to protect our company and our employees from civil and criminal liability, but also to avoid inadvertently assisting a resident of a restricted state to commit a crime.



Which leads me to my next point. You are correct that 10 round magazines are legal to purchase in Connecticut. However, it is only legal to sell a magazine under certain conditions, as the statute reads as follows:

Sec. 29-38m. (c) On and after October 1, 2013, no person, firm or corporation shall sell ammunition or an ammunition magazine to any person unless such person holds a valid permit to carry a pistol or revolver issued … and presents to the transferor such permit or certificate, or unless such person holds a valid ammunition certificate issued pursuant to section 29-38n and presents to the transferor such certificate and such person's motor vehicle operator's license, passport or other valid form of identification issued by the federal government or a state or municipal government that contains such person's date of birth and photograph.

Because we are unable to verify permits, we are unable to make sales directly to CT residents. If you were to examine the web stores of other firearms manufacturers, you would find that none are able to sell magazines directly to CT residents either. I hope you understand that we don’t like this situation any more than you do, and we sincerely hope we are able to make direct magazine sales to you in the future.



As a side note, I hope you are enjoying your CZ 455. I actually just brought one home yesterday in .17 HMR.



Best regards,





Dan Spencer IV
 
I can't really blame the gunsmiths, or anyone else for that matter. After all this is how they feed their families. This situation is just the beginning.
 
russ10x said:
I can't really blame the gunsmiths, or anyone else for that matter. After all this is how they feed their families. This situation is just the beginning.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

We run into this problem constantly. It's not easy to know state or local laws when you are half a country away, yet if we violate those laws, they will prosecute us. Shipping rifles to cali is a pain in the ass. Every time we need to log into the shitty CA DOJ website and get permission to ship the goddamn rifle to a "registered dealer." Never mind that the dealer already has an FFL, you know FEDERAL firearms license.

It's easy to throw stones when your freedom, money, and entire livelihood is not at stake. The crooked politicians and idiotic irrational people empowering them to pass and uphold these laws are the ones to blame. It's turning into a friggin mine field out there. Soon, we won't have a goddamn clue who can receive what or where!

... almost as if this was planned?
 
CZ USA seems to know the law, and that they COULD sell you those magazines, but they are saying they wont take the risk of validating a CT state CCW permit. I am sure there is some liability there if they "verify" a forged license and sold you those three 5 round baby killer clip mags. :mad:
 
Please don't take this as a dig, but elections have consequences. There are plenty of Californians that are fed up, plenty of East Coasters that are fed up... I am willing to bet if those that are fed up would put a little hustle into backing a better guy/gal to represent them the ship might be turned around. Unfortunately there seems to be an air of: 'What difference would it make, the libs will win anyways' and then it becomes a defeatist self fulfilling prophecy.
 
First, that totally sucks and you shouldn't have to deal with that type of harassment from your own government. Second please don't take this the wrong way.

I am guessing that in addition to contacting the merchant, and blowing off steam on web forums to people that support your rights and participate in the same hobbies you have:
- already contacted all of your state representatives in writing
- contacted your federal representatives in writing
- joined your state/local firearms advocacy/rights organizations
- joined the NRA
- written letter to the editor of LOCAL publications explaining the foolish ineffectiveness of this legislation.

We all understand your pain. None of us want to be covered by similar nonsense laws which do nothing but punish law abiding citizens. But we can't just complain to each other; we need INDIVIDUALLY and COLLECTIVELY contact our legislators (and prospective candidates) and advocate for change through organizations that support our rights. The grass roots efforts in Colorado proved a couple of points: it is way easier to elect the right people to do the right thing the first time around than it is to change bad legislation or representation, that when we work together we can effect change, however that change takes a LONG time.
 
Don't blame the manufacturers. Its your legislatures that are to blame. Your representatives are to blame. Your state's voters are to blame. Instead of venting to manufacturers, I think you'd be money ahead by following VTSEAL's advice.
 
This is a SAD state of affairs and to the OP, I feel your pain. I used to live and work in NJ and later moved to Los Angeles. Both of those states are also very restrictive. I am now back home where I belong in good old KY and since returning, I have gotten the chance to rediscover my love of the shooting sports. If you cannot leave CT, then my only advice is:

FIGHT THIS, with all the force of your being. Get politically active. Join the T-Party. Tell your legislature that restricting the rights of law abiding citizens is NOT the way to stop criminals or wackos. When the British attempted to subjugate the American colonists in New England and tried to take away their weapons, they mobilized the militia and fought them. After winning that war, our leaders understood that there needed to be a better way to combat injustice and tyranny without the need for bloodshed. They designed our form of civil government to enable WE the People to force our will upon the government. But to do so, requires each of us and all of us to stand up and voice our will. Vocally and at the ballot box. Good luck with this fight. If you fail, the rest of us will be next. As Benjamin Franklin once said, "We must hang together or we shall surely hang separately."

Irish
 
Same boat in NY. Happens to me all the time. Our BS law won't even allow companies to ship ammo to NY. Finally found some 22lr at a decent price and can't ship it here. Didn't remember until I tried to pay and was advised no shipping to NY. No 22lr for me. Thank you NY
 
orkan said:
Exactly.

We run into this problem constantly. It's not easy to know state or local laws when you are half a country away, yet if we violate those laws, they will prosecute us. Shipping rifles to cali is a pain in the ass. Every time we need to log into the shitty CA DOJ website and get permission to ship the goddamn rifle to a "registered dealer." Never mind that the dealer already has an FFL, you know FEDERAL firearms license.

It's easy to throw stones when your freedom, money, and entire livelihood is not at stake. The crooked politicians and idiotic irrational people empowering them to pass and uphold these laws are the ones to blame. It's turning into a friggin mine field out there. Soon, we won't have a goddamn clue who can receive what or where!

... almost as if this was planned?
Click to expand...

Rockfish Dave said:
Please don't take this as a dig, but elections have consequences. There are plenty of Californians that are fed up, plenty of East Coasters that are fed up... I am willing to bet if those that are fed up would put a little hustle into backing a better guy/gal to represent them the ship might be turned around. Unfortunately there seems to be an air of: 'What difference would it make, the libs will win anyways' and then it becomes a defeatist self fulfilling prophecy.
Click to expand...

VTSEAL said:
First, that totally sucks and you shouldn't have to deal with that type of harassment from your own government. Second please don't take this the wrong way.

I am guessing that in addition to contacting the merchant, and blowing off steam on web forums to people that support your rights and participate in the same hobbies you have:
- already contacted all of your state representatives in writing
- contacted your federal representatives in writing
- joined your state/local firearms advocacy/rights organizations
- joined the NRA
- written letter to the editor of LOCAL publications explaining the foolish ineffectiveness of this legislation.

We all understand your pain. None of us want to be covered by similar nonsense laws which do nothing but punish law abiding citizens. But we can't just complain to each other; we need INDIVIDUALLY and COLLECTIVELY contact our legislators (and prospective candidates) and advocate for change through organizations that support our rights. The grass roots efforts in Colorado proved a couple of points: it is way easier to elect the right people to do the right thing the first time around than it is to change bad legislation or representation, that when we work together we can effect change, however that change takes a LONG time.
Click to expand...


VT, yes to all.
 
I feel your pain. No dealer would modify a SR15 so I could not buy one. Bought a PredatAR instead because LaRue would modify the gun to make it legal in NJ. Point is, find another dealer who will work with your situation.
 
have some one out of state buy them for you than have them shipped to you I know it sucks but what can you do?
 
If you have problem with the way a company operates don't buy from them. There is no reason they have to sell to ANY STATE THEY DONT WANT TO. You don't like it move or elect someone to change the laws. I sell guns everyday and I will not ship to Cali. If you don't like it don't buy from me. If you live in Cali and are a voter its either your fault or you need to move. Same goes for the east coast. You voted these people in I didn't. Its a free market I don't have to sale you ammo . The law does not state that if I have something you want I have to sell it to you. Your post that you don't like companies that do not obey the law has no grounds here. They don't have to sell you anything if they don't want to. I am sure your post will put CZ out of business. Grow some balls and move or change the laws in your state. ALSO QUIT CRYING
 
nesikabay said:
If you have problem with the way a company operates don't buy from them. There is no reason they have to sell to ANY STATE THEY DONT WANT TO. You don't like it move or elect someone to change the laws. I sell guns everyday and I will not ship to Cali. If you don't like it don't buy from me. If you live in Cali and are a voter its either your fault or you need to move. Same goes for the east coast. You voted these people in I didn't. Its a free market I don't have to sale you ammo . The law does not state that if I have something you want I have to sell it to you. Your post that you don't like companies that do not obey the law has no grounds here. They don't have to sell you anything if they don't want to. I am sure your post will put CZ out of business. Grow some balls and move or change the laws in your state. ALSO QUIT CRYING
Click to expand...

x2
Been waiting for this one.
Not quite the same scenario, but I sell optics in Canada.
Sometimes (not often) we have pricing that beats the U.S.
We get a flood of sales requests from south of the border that we don't accept because without very specialized licencing we just can't do it...and for the amount of sales it would amount to it just isn't worth the hoops we'd have to jump through.
Most people are understanding, but we always get the odd person who gets quite ignorant that we won't sell them a product.
WE DON'T HAVE TO!!
And besides, why wouldn't you support your local dealer, even if it costs a couple bucks more.
You know...the guy down the block that you'll go running to if you can't quite figure out how to make the item YOU DIDN'T BUY FROM HIM work.
 
If you live in a state that is run by tyrants, and are a free adult, I don't feel sorry for you at all. You made your bed, now sleep in it.
 
Voting is the lock and education is the key. Your rights as an American aren't given to you they are fought for by each generation and by each in there own way. The one singular burden that faces this generation that no generation has faced before is what happens when a modern weapon system falls into the wrong hands. Kalishnakov's and AR'-15's etc., and their use by mentally unstable people have turned in my lifetime high schools and movie theaters from places of refuge into AO's for the insane. Now nobody in their right mind considers a magazine capacity ban effective if they do they surely haven't seen a modern revolver competitor do a quick reload but they are looking for a fix to a problem that is a lot bigger than 30 rd. mags. What they need is for interested people such as yourself to educate them in the safe and alternative use of today's firearms. I'd be more than glad to help but I live in Texas.
 
It might not last muck longer but this is still the USA. ITS A FREE MARKET. We Don't have to sell to States we don't like. Nothing against you. if I WANT SOMETING I WILL FIND A WAY TO GET IT I WONT CRY ABOUT IT
 
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