Titanium Action Durability

treillw

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Minuteman
Mar 3, 2017
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So I don't know much about Titanium actions. Do they last as long as a steel action, or are they better suited as more of a "disposable" item?

I want my rifle to last for my lifetime (I'm 30) and be handed down to my kids for many years of use.

How are the machining tolerances on them, compared to steel actions?

Thanks!
 
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They put ti in people's bodies, for life. It eats up the mills that try to machine it. When up against a chro-mo bolt, it's the not the ti that galls....idk. Just some talking points. I have a pierce ti action. It's incredible
 
Pound for pound, Ti is much stronger than steel. However, it can be more brittle and that is important in a rifle action. All depends on heat treat and actual composition of the Ti alloy. It typically is harder though, so wear should not really be an issue. I have a Pierce action in stainless and doubt that it will live much over 200 years. One in Ti should last a bit longer.
I also have a Mauser 98 action that was built a bit over 50 years ago and it is still shooting and functioning just fine. I have no idea how many rounds have been through the thing. It currently wears a 243 Winchester barrel and cycles just fine. When I pull the trigger, the rifle makes a booming noise and little holes appear in the paper about 200 yards away. The holes are pretty close together as well. Based on the ancient Bushnell 3x9 scope and the really odd mount, coupled with the Fajon thumbhole stock with a bench type fore end. I would say this gun was built in the 50s.
 
So I don't know much about Titanium actions. Do they last as long as a steel action, or are they better suited as more of a "disposable" item?

I want my rifle to last for my lifetime (I'm 30) and be handed down to my kids for many years of use.

How are the machining tolerances on them, compared to steel actions?

Thanks!


Application drives this boat. Does TI have a place? Certainly. If your huffin n puffin around the Tetons lookin for Billy Goats then ounces truly matter. Add a spaghetti barrel or a carbon wrapped and squash it into a very light sporter stock...

Nailed it. Easy to carry and it'll do the job.

Stick a car axle on it and go shoot a "gamer gun" match....well...action prolly isn't going to like that so much. TI is soft and its gummy. Good strength and 60% the weight of steel, but its not the right material for a rifle that will see intense use in terms of cyclic round counts in abrasive environments. That's been my experience with it. Your not going to see upper 40 or low 50 rockwell C with Titanium. It's ultimate tensile strength is in the neighborhood of 63kpsi where's chromoly is in the 80's+ Double vac quench on certain grades of chromoly improve upon this even more.

The benefit is a 40% reduction in weight. Lubricity, hardness, toughness, etc...those do fall a bit short of a well selected and prepared steel.
Good luck. Hope this helps.

C.
 
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The only downside to Ti over steel is the material cost and the poor SOB who has to machine it. Ti is a pain in the ass to machine.

Makes me wonder what their tolerances are. Also, I've heard that they need to be made with more slop in them to allow for the dissimilar metals (steel bolt).
 
Makes me wonder what their tolerances are. Also, I've heard that they need to be made with more slop in them to allow for the dissimilar metals (steel bolt).

Tolerances are likely good enough you would have a hard time spotting any issues with your $25 digital caliper. I don't know for a fact, but my guess is that when you machine precision actions for a living, you nail down tooling, fixturing, and speeds/feeds to mitigate the PITA as much as possible. Tighter is not always better. You see the same issue with certain stainless actions that are so tight they can barely be cerakoted (.001" thick layer--- 1/6th the thickness of a sheet of paper) and still function-- introduce ANY dirt/dust and they choke and become a bear to cycle.

More slop in them (to a point) is ideal for any action IMO. Think of it this way, a Savage with a new match grade barrel and proper load dev. shoots sub 1/2 MOA. You don't get any more loosey goosey, sloppy, rattly than that besides like a Mossberg, or a 1945 made Arisaka... But the fuckers still shoot.

Look at the ARC M5-- IMO the best custom action out there for most purposes unless you're stuck on AW magazines, but it's got like .010-.015" clearance on most of the bolt body relative to the action bore. There's a taper at the back end to tighten things up a little as the bolt goes into battery. But what you've got to remember is that there are several geometries at play at once here. It's not just "Oh well the bolt is smaller than the action so there's play"... No.. There are lugs butting up against recesses under the spring pressure of the FP spring, there is a double-tapered cartridge seated centered in the chamber with typically .001-.002" of allowable headspace play (if everything is clean).... Not near as much room for movement as a guy might imagine. And for the most part, what does happen, even on rifles loose enough for there to be movement with the bolt locked down on a loaded round--- largely does not matter. Savages, old WWI and WWII mausers, enfields... pretty much every action shoots great with a match grade barrel...

So if you want to have a theoretical warm and fuzzy feel good because "tolerances are TIGHT" and you've convinced yourself that everything is square and that's what matters, sure. Buy I make the assumption that most people on this site are going for practical functionality/accuracy. Benchrest, and world record groups, sure get stupid tight and follow the voodoo. For 1/4-1/2 MOA, screw on a good pipe, have decent bedding/a chassis and run with it.

As far as Titanium for longevity, Don't hot rod it, and don't run it dry. It is brittle, and ultimate tensile and yield strengths are going to be lower than that of the chrome moly steels (all entirely dependent on heat treat, annealed CM can have yield strengths as low as 60ksi-- on par with cartridge brass, or with the proper heat treat cycle it can be 250+ksi).

Metals and heat treats are always a trade off between hardness/high tensile strength, and toughness, ductility, and energy absorbtion. Titanium's crystalline structure is different from most steels however, and lends itself less to ductility. i.e. it's more brittle by default (Again, depending on the steel's heat treat, an oil quench with no temper (martensite) is as strong/hard as steel gets, but uselessly brittle).

Anyway, without typing a fucking novel here on material properties... The main take away is that the stuff likes to gall more than CM steel, and probably more than the grades of SS used in rifle actions, and it's brittle, and the yield/tensile strengths are probably lower than those of steel. Obviously they can handle full-power loads-- where what I'm talking about comes into play is the failure mode in the event of over-pressure. Ti is going to fail at a lower pressure, and be more prone to crack or fragment instead of having lug setback or having the action bend/warp and contain the excessive pressures. You have to go well over the published loads to get there, not trying to scare anyone.

So stay sane with it, and keep it lubed, and it will out last you.
 
A well made action is going to be a well made action no matter what it is made of. I work aerospace and machine all kinds of crap that is much worse than titanium. I consider 440c stainless and 17-4ph stainless easy materials. Inconel? Little harder. Mar m 247? Devil material. I'd say if you want something to last a long time go stainless. As strong as steel if not stronger, less to worry about with corrosion. Personally I like the look of stainless in the white.
If you need light go titanium. Though titanium can be anodized in cool colors (Though not hard anodized). Google image search. Cool colors.

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I wouldn't for the sole aspect of galling and wear resistance. If they've developed a great coating that doesn't wear off, then go for it.

It will flex more than steel and have poor heat dissipation though.