I have an older rem 700VS with an HS Precision Stock. The rifle has the factory aluminum bedding block and has not been bedded. The rifle is stock except for a new trigger and firing pin assembly. The rifle shoots ok. It is very picky about loads and will deliver consistant .5 MOA with 170gr Lapua handloads but groups open to 1.25 MOA with other factory "Match" ammo. The question is will bedding this rifle improve the accruacy and consistancy. I was considering using Acuraglass Gel with atomized aluminum. Any comments?
Gunsmithing To Bed or Not to Bed
- Thread starter longshotbml
- Start date
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
The aluminum chassis is not supposed to need bedding, but you may see a small improvement (or not). "Skim bedding" is what you should do if you decide to go for it.
The aluminum chassis is not supposed to need bedding, but you may see a small improvement (or not). "Skim bedding" is what you should do if you decide to go for it.
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
had 2, 1 bedded, the other wasn't. both actions were torqued to stock, both shot well.
had 2, 1 bedded, the other wasn't. both actions were torqued to stock, both shot well.
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
Im pretty sure that if you do a proper stress free skim bed, you will notice a difference. Aluminum bedding block or not, every stock needs stress free bedding if you want to squeez out every bit of accuracy. Made a hell of a difference on my Rem 5R, went from .5" 5 shot groups down to .3" And that was in a B&C stock which also has a aluminum bedding block.
Im pretty sure that if you do a proper stress free skim bed, you will notice a difference. Aluminum bedding block or not, every stock needs stress free bedding if you want to squeez out every bit of accuracy. Made a hell of a difference on my Rem 5R, went from .5" 5 shot groups down to .3" And that was in a B&C stock which also has a aluminum bedding block.
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
All of my HS stocks shot just fine but I still bedded them just for piece of mind. Why not take out as many variables as possible?
All of my HS stocks shot just fine but I still bedded them just for piece of mind. Why not take out as many variables as possible?
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brad from ND</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why not take out as many variables as possible? </div></div>
This^^^
Bed it...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brad from ND</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why not take out as many variables as possible? </div></div>
This^^^
Bed it...
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
Thanks for all the input. You confirmed that voice in my head. Skim bed it is.
Thanks
Thanks for all the input. You confirmed that voice in my head. Skim bed it is.
Thanks
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
Two Rem 700 VS HS stocks. One was skim bedded, the other wasn't.
I took my rifle to the range and shot the unbedded stock, then swapped stocks and shot the skim-bedded one.
vs
The light was failing at the time so it was almost rapid-fire for both. The unbedded example is a really good indicator of what I had in the past with that stock: very tight groups that strung from low-left to high-right, with unpredictable shifts in POI.
I would recommend bedding.
Two Rem 700 VS HS stocks. One was skim bedded, the other wasn't.
I took my rifle to the range and shot the unbedded stock, then swapped stocks and shot the skim-bedded one.
vs
The light was failing at the time so it was almost rapid-fire for both. The unbedded example is a really good indicator of what I had in the past with that stock: very tight groups that strung from low-left to high-right, with unpredictable shifts in POI.
I would recommend bedding.
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you think about bedding Remington actions into AICS systems? </div></div>
Were it mine, Id bed it. Im quite the fan of taking shit out of the equation before I even get started. Guess Im funny that way....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you think about bedding Remington actions into AICS systems? </div></div>
Were it mine, Id bed it. Im quite the fan of taking shit out of the equation before I even get started. Guess Im funny that way....
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
Even if the bedding process delivers zero improvement; you have the assurance that you've done what's possible, and in a responsible manner. I bed most all of my rifles, and some show improvement, and some don't. I don't worry about it, I just do it.
I also try out temporary barrel channel contact pads on my floated barrrels, to ensure that the rifle prefers being floated over supported. It's better to know than to guess. Some actually do prefer support, and it's something that's worth finding out.
I use pressure sensitive neoprene foam spots as test pads in the barrel channel. They are available in packages of 'Foamies Shapes" at Wallyworld's Crafts Department. If they help, I just leave them in place. This technique can be particularly helpful with hunters who use factory ammo exclusively for hunting purposes, as I do.
Greg
Even if the bedding process delivers zero improvement; you have the assurance that you've done what's possible, and in a responsible manner. I bed most all of my rifles, and some show improvement, and some don't. I don't worry about it, I just do it.
I also try out temporary barrel channel contact pads on my floated barrrels, to ensure that the rifle prefers being floated over supported. It's better to know than to guess. Some actually do prefer support, and it's something that's worth finding out.
I use pressure sensitive neoprene foam spots as test pads in the barrel channel. They are available in packages of 'Foamies Shapes" at Wallyworld's Crafts Department. If they help, I just leave them in place. This technique can be particularly helpful with hunters who use factory ammo exclusively for hunting purposes, as I do.
Greg
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
Interesting Greg, never heard of anyone doing that before.
I guess the foam offers a different aspect to the harmonics, without totally disrupting it. How far down the barrel channel do you add them? closer to the muzzle, action, mid-way, everywhere?
Interesting Greg, never heard of anyone doing that before.
I guess the foam offers a different aspect to the harmonics, without totally disrupting it. How far down the barrel channel do you add them? closer to the muzzle, action, mid-way, everywhere?
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even if the bedding process delivers zero improvement; you have the assurance that you've done what's possible, and in a responsible manner.</div></div>
I am lazy, and I bed everything but rimfire and .223 slow twist rifles.
I am willing to do non recurring accuracy rituals without double blind controlled efficacy testing, but weighing cases has been thrown out the window.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even if the bedding process delivers zero improvement; you have the assurance that you've done what's possible, and in a responsible manner.</div></div>
I am lazy, and I bed everything but rimfire and .223 slow twist rifles.
I am willing to do non recurring accuracy rituals without double blind controlled efficacy testing, but weighing cases has been thrown out the window.
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
The foam provides soft support, while tending to reduce contact rebound. The goal is to put some preload upward into the barrel, to dampen primary harmonics. The pressure needs to be enough to cancel out the harmonic energy.
Finding the proper point for the harmonic damper is not as hard as you might think. I dust the barrel with talc, then fire a series of shots. Vibration displaces the talc, and leaves more of it where vibration is least active. The damper gets placed directly under wherever the most talc remains. This minimizes any tendency toward contact rebound.
Some barrels (typically, these are heavier barrels) will not provide such a clear indication. In those circumstances, I place the damper just far enough back from the front of the channel that it's not visible.
Bear in mind that this can change harmonics and may require load redevelopment. If that redevelopment does not result in better accuracy, I restore the barrel channel to its original state, and go with the prior accuracy load.
Likewise, when bedding long barrels to provide support under the chamber, ahead of the lug, I use a resilient compound like Silicone RTV Caulk. Chambers expand during firing, and rigid bedding may not be the best alternative beneath them. Be aware that Silicone compounds can release acid when curing, and this, in turn, can destroy blueing. I temporarily enamel the metal contact area before bedding with the caulk, then remove the enamel with paint thinner afterward. The enamel still needs to be coated with release agent.
Taking all of this a step further, some may recall that the Browning BOSS system, when factory installed, was accompanied by a bedding job that was made of a flexible compound. It complements the harmonic barrel tuner, ostensibly by dampening basic vibrations at the receiver.
I have done some harmonic tuner testing. Gains can be flatly astounding, but they are also temporary. When environmental conditions change significantly, they seem to go out of tune, sometimes way out of tune. I've never accompanied these tests with a flexible bedding job. Maybe there's more to this equation than I've managed to discover as yet. My approach would be to bed pillars to the stock with RTV, then bolt in the barreled action, contacting only the pillars.
Please let me know if anybody beats me to this.
Greg
The foam provides soft support, while tending to reduce contact rebound. The goal is to put some preload upward into the barrel, to dampen primary harmonics. The pressure needs to be enough to cancel out the harmonic energy.
Finding the proper point for the harmonic damper is not as hard as you might think. I dust the barrel with talc, then fire a series of shots. Vibration displaces the talc, and leaves more of it where vibration is least active. The damper gets placed directly under wherever the most talc remains. This minimizes any tendency toward contact rebound.
Some barrels (typically, these are heavier barrels) will not provide such a clear indication. In those circumstances, I place the damper just far enough back from the front of the channel that it's not visible.
Bear in mind that this can change harmonics and may require load redevelopment. If that redevelopment does not result in better accuracy, I restore the barrel channel to its original state, and go with the prior accuracy load.
Likewise, when bedding long barrels to provide support under the chamber, ahead of the lug, I use a resilient compound like Silicone RTV Caulk. Chambers expand during firing, and rigid bedding may not be the best alternative beneath them. Be aware that Silicone compounds can release acid when curing, and this, in turn, can destroy blueing. I temporarily enamel the metal contact area before bedding with the caulk, then remove the enamel with paint thinner afterward. The enamel still needs to be coated with release agent.
Taking all of this a step further, some may recall that the Browning BOSS system, when factory installed, was accompanied by a bedding job that was made of a flexible compound. It complements the harmonic barrel tuner, ostensibly by dampening basic vibrations at the receiver.
I have done some harmonic tuner testing. Gains can be flatly astounding, but they are also temporary. When environmental conditions change significantly, they seem to go out of tune, sometimes way out of tune. I've never accompanied these tests with a flexible bedding job. Maybe there's more to this equation than I've managed to discover as yet. My approach would be to bed pillars to the stock with RTV, then bolt in the barreled action, contacting only the pillars.
Please let me know if anybody beats me to this.
Greg
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
Pardon my ignorance, but what is "skim" bedding? I still want to bed my .308 in a McM A4 and not sure what type of bedding to do. Regular, pillar or "skim"?
Pardon my ignorance, but what is "skim" bedding? I still want to bed my .308 in a McM A4 and not sure what type of bedding to do. Regular, pillar or "skim"?
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pardon my ignorance, but what is "skim" bedding? I still want to bed my .308 in a McM A4 and not sure what type of bedding to do. Regular, pillar or "skim"? </div></div>
Bedding is just that, bedding. In your A4 you can bed with or with out pillars. I'd bed it with the pillars. After your A4 is bedded say there was an air pocket, chip or some other imperfection, you'd simply rough up the first bedding job and apply a very thin layer of new bedding material over it and re-bed. This would be a skim bed. Stocks like HS Precision and Bell & Carlson that have the aluminum bedding blocks already have pillars made into the aluminum chassis. The bedding job for those could be called a skim bedding job or just a bedding job. In the end, the only real difference is whether or not you install pillars in wood or fiberglass. Some just call it different things.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pardon my ignorance, but what is "skim" bedding? I still want to bed my .308 in a McM A4 and not sure what type of bedding to do. Regular, pillar or "skim"? </div></div>
Bedding is just that, bedding. In your A4 you can bed with or with out pillars. I'd bed it with the pillars. After your A4 is bedded say there was an air pocket, chip or some other imperfection, you'd simply rough up the first bedding job and apply a very thin layer of new bedding material over it and re-bed. This would be a skim bed. Stocks like HS Precision and Bell & Carlson that have the aluminum bedding blocks already have pillars made into the aluminum chassis. The bedding job for those could be called a skim bedding job or just a bedding job. In the end, the only real difference is whether or not you install pillars in wood or fiberglass. Some just call it different things.
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
If you want to do the pad bedding like Greg does,go to your local electronics store. They have a silicone ATV compound that is mostly inert...fine electronics don't like strong acids. I'd use that before Wally World chinese wonderful. JMHO
If you want to do the pad bedding like Greg does,go to your local electronics store. They have a silicone ATV compound that is mostly inert...fine electronics don't like strong acids. I'd use that before Wally World chinese wonderful. JMHO
Re: To Bed or Not to Bed
I have a Rem. 700 pss with the HS stock that I plan on putting seekins bottom metal on, then bedding. Do I need to use pillars, or should I just skim bed it?
I have a Rem. 700 pss with the HS stock that I plan on putting seekins bottom metal on, then bedding. Do I need to use pillars, or should I just skim bed it?
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