To bolt down or not to bolt down, that is the question.

[goinghunting]

No radiant heat in concrete?

 

[Veer_G]

No radiant heat in concrete?

That could make for a fine mess. Don't know how easy a workaround would be.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I'm glad you posted that.

For anyone in the market for a safe, first look at large safe distributors, especially if you have any local! Look for scratch and dent, vet discounts, yearly sale, and THEN haggle from there. Don't feel bad about lowballing 'em, they come out hand over fist enough on jeweler sales that they can hook up the occasional know it all firearms collector. And do know it all before walking in. It's the difference between talking to the sales or owner as an equal vs. predator/prey. It's possible to score a $12,000 TL30X6 with dual combo/key locks for $5000 --delivered and installed. Compare an Original TL30X6, the largest model they make, to any RSC or any non-X6 vault. The difference will be obvious. Also, one weighs seven times the other!

And if this is in WA, there's no tax. They'll tax the fuck out of everything in it, but not the safe.

Now an RSC won't be rated to withstand an attack like that, and that guy selling the Graffunder RSC's knows it. An RSC gets it's rating from two guys using SHORT handled hand tools and no power tools. It has to withstand five minutes to get an RSC rating. Notice he didn't put his RSC to the same test. Why not? Because RSC is RSC and UL wouldn't have permitted that long pry bar in an RSC evaluation. If it would've rated a TL15, I'm sure Graffunder would have paid UL to test for that (15min. agains long handled tools plus power tools of choice). Truth is most of these items rate higher than they're tested for, but generally not high enough for the next rating. Sometimes a mfg. may feel a certain rating is good enough and no need to spend the money to get it rated higher for whatever reasons.

The Graffunders behind the sales guy will be rated exactly the same. $500 or $5000, an RSC is an RSC. Graffunder does make one of the best RSC's, Heritage makes a damn fine RSC too. IIRC, those two have fire ratings on par or almost on par with many TL30's. Jewelry safes don't generally advertise fire ratings, maybe because they're about as high as they get. RSC's use drywall inside, TL's use concrete and other stuff.

The RSC they tested was NOT a "premium" model, it looked like a pretty cheap no name and I'm not certain it hadn't been tampered with, ie, the bottom and top pins (which it looks like it had at some point). Even a good RSC will have a substantial door that will dispermit prying like that; most good ones have 3" pins all the way around. Typically, the way to get into an RSC isn't through the door, it's through the sides. They're made with sheet steel, 16 or 11ga. usually, all you have to do is power chisel a cutout, then chisel out the fireproofing, then chisel through the final sheet steel. One tool does it all. If you've got practice with one of those tools, it's like opening a zipper. Or a sardine can. But they never, ever show that.

Better off to secure an RSC (some vaults don't need to be bolted, even recommend against, but we're talking 6000lbs. here). Drill the minimum size hole for services like electricity, security. Ideally put it in a corner and build a wall next to it. Even better is to conceal it somehow so it's not even noticeable; can't find it, can't rob it. Like under stairs or behind a hidden wall. Shit like that isn't hard to DIY. And every single thing I've mentioned is in use by one member or another on this very site. I'd say the guys with RSC's that concealed them AND built up walls (like in basements for example) and/or stuffed in a corner, and that have solid doors, have security probably on par with a TL. Especially if the walls are reinforced with rebar. If you can reinforce the room well enough, you can just get a security door and install it and have a walk in. Easy to do in basements. God, I love one of those.

Shit, I could go on all day long.

I've written dissertations on security, I don't feel like doing it anymore but if anyone wants good specific security advice you can PM me. This gets asked often enough that I'd write a very detailed security sticky if asked to do so. I figure if my security work can protect $5billion in jewels, it can secure our shit.



And shouldn't you be out in spandex right now saving the city? Need a sidekick?

Hah, hah!.....you don't want to see me in Spandex. Good news is that I don't either. Nothing to worry about for any of us.

 

[TheGerman]

Wait, you faggots actually leave your houses?

 

[Threadcutter308]

Wait, you faggots actually leave your houses?

My FFL doesn’t deliver......

 

[truth]

They're made with sheet steel, 16 or 11ga. usually, all you have to do is power chisel a cutout, then chisel out the fireproofing, then chisel through the final sheet steel. One tool does it all. If you've got practice with one of those tools, it's like opening a zipper. Or a sardine can. But they never, ever show that.

 

[TripleBull]

How old were your kids when you brought that up?

The first dangerous tool discussion happened when our first son was 18 months old. I was using two cordless drills, one to drill a pilot and the other to drive a screw. He wanted to help. So we went to Lowe's and got him one of the little Makita cordless drills and started driving short Torx-head screws into 2x4's. It was a blast. We waited a year or so before we gave him a drill bit. Knives came into the picture when he was 3 and that was a bit stressful. Just whittling fundamentals. His little brother was born when big brother was 25 months old. The little guy looked at the stuff big brother was doing and wanted on the accelerated curve plan. That was tougher, but we worked through it. Chop saw, table saw, firearms - all those required a systematic approach.

My 3 year old is awesome and does a good job following instructions, but it doesn't seem like he's old enough to understand the implications of being handed some keys to the castle in the future. He's pretty focused on __now__ even at the expense of the future. Based on some other kids I've gotten to know pretty well, 6 or 7 is when things start to function well (recall, planning, etc)

LOLing on keys to the castle. Agreed, up to about 6, you have to take them back to ground zero each time and remind them about set-up, body position and all that. It's worth the effort in more ways than one. It's important to ingrain all the safety and right-tool-for-the-job fundamentals at the time that they want access to the tools so they can learn to get their head into the problem-solving and design part of the equation. Then you get to see the little buggers go into creative mode and that really blows your mind.

 

[Clearlight]

Dynabolt ahoy.

 

[hermosabeach]

I think back to Pamela and Tommy Lee who had their safe and sex tape taken....

Probably done or leaked by a contractor/vendor who worked at their home.....

a furniture dolly and a 4 wheel castor and its damn easy to move a safe....

 

[TripleBull]

Are you saying that you took their safe, Hermosa?

 

[deersniper]

Easy to move a RSC.Good much moving a full size safe and you better have a good truck lift if you are planning on taking it.

 

[Wheedle]

My Browning is shoved back into a closet, so getting to the sides would take some work. I need to finish wiring it up and shove it the rest the way back and anchor it.

 

[Strykervet]

Make sure it's not a tensioned slab that you are bolting into.

I haven't bolted down my TL30. Prolly going to skip doing that.

Look at the specs for it. A 6000lb. TL30X6 has no place for a hole, does have a .5" hole drilled in the rear for services and that's plugged with JB Weld. I don't even know how you'd bolt one of these fuckers down, they're designed to destroy drills and no single bit can be used anyway. An X6 means the walls, all 6 sides, are the same strength as the door. The concrete inbetween the steel is high pressure and filled with irregular aggregate that destroys bits.

I have a smaller TL30 (not an X6) and it's just a used Amsec. Still a tough fucker. I think that one does have a hole, I can't remember. If it's not an X6, you can drill through the bottom and it not be a big deal.

If you're worried about someone running off with the safe, put lojack on it. There are other services and different types now too. The RFID one looks good IF it takes off and everyone has the app in their phone. Basically, steal an item, go near a phone or internet connection and it updates their location 24/7. Small and cheap enough to install in every item worth over $500 in the house. Would make theft impractical.

 

[Strykervet]

Easy to move a RSC.Good much moving a full size safe and you better have a good truck lift if you are planning on taking it.

RSC are easy but they use a special lift on the trucks that deliver safes. There are tons of videos on youtube about moving RSC's. Some PVC pipe to roll it on and a couple buddies to help tip it in the truck, GTG. Hell, they may even fit on a tommygate. A 3 ton safe and you're also gonna need a big truck along with that special lift too. Any bigger and we're talking a flatbed with a crane.

When the vault was delivered, it took 'em a good hour to get it off the truck and in the garage. They were pros and were working fast and efficiently and had special tools I'd never seen before.

When they delivered a Heritage RSC I bought years ago, they tipped it off the truck, opened the cardboard, pallet jacked it close to the location, unbolted it from the pallet (obviously had bolt holes predrilled) and rocked it off and onto the floor carefully. Took all of ten minutes really. When I sold it, a guy came with two friends in a pickup and they tilted it back and loaded it on and were gone in two minutes.

Big differences all around. Only thing safes or vaults have in common with RSC's is that they both look like rectangles. That's about it.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Don't bolt that shit down! Load it up and go get a bigger one. It is obvious the one you got isn't big enough. Logic man. Think logic.