To PCC or not to PCC...?

earthtrekker1775

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At the price points I'd be shopping at for a PCC (north of $1500), I feel like it's wasteful to spend that much on a "long gun" that performs marginally better than a handgun--which can be had for $400-600, which, in 9mm, is far more versatile/useful, IMO.

Based on my research so far, 10mm is actually able to make much better use of the barrel length than 9mm.

Anyway, we already covered the issue of bullet performance vs barrel length earlier in the thread.
The apc 9 pro fits a niche in my stable. It is 0.4" shorter overall length collapsed than a S&W Model 460 and I can run it very quiet if I want to with a suppressor and subs.
 

MadDuner

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    At the price points I'd be shopping at for a PCC (north of $1500), I feel like it's wasteful to spend that much on a "long gun" that performs marginally better than a handgun--which can be had for $400-600, which, in 9mm, is far more versatile/useful, IMO.

    Based on my research so far, 10mm is actually able to make much better use of the barrel length than 9mm.

    Anyway, we already covered the issue of bullet performance vs barrel length earlier in the thread.
    You may be overlooking the "fun" aspect of the PCC weapon.....
     
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    stefan73

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    The apc 9 pro fits a niche in my stable. It is 0.4" shorter overall length collapsed than a S&W Model 460 and I can run it very quiet if I want to with a suppressor and subs.
    I am waiting for a Lunar 9mm can to get released from federal purgatory to run with my 150grn federal syntechs. That should be fun close range predator killing.
     
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    Naaman

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    The apc 9 pro fits a niche in my stable. It is 0.4" shorter overall length collapsed than a S&W Model 460 and I can run it very quiet if I want to with a suppressor and subs.

    For me, a suppressor (or any stamp) is a no go, so all the "best" reasons to go PCC are lost on me. This is why I'm in the "PCCs DO suck" camp. lol. :LOL:

    You may be overlooking the "fun" aspect of the PCC weapon.....
    Yes, I am (purposely :LOL: ). Shooting can be fun, but ultimately, for me, the fun is a happy biproduct of self defense training. (y) And... lately, blowing $15-30 a mag is depressing enough to suck the fun right out of it....
     
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    WindstormSCR

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    For me, a suppressor (or any stamp) is a no go, so all the "best" reasons to go PCC are lost on me. This is why I'm in the "PCCs DO suck" camp. lol. :LOL:


    Yes, I am (purposely :LOL: ). Shooting can be fun, but ultimately, for me, the fun is a happy biproduct of self defense training. (y) And... lately, blowing $15-30 a mag is depressing enough to suck the fun right out of it....
    a pcc is one of the most controllable weapons for self defense and the easiest (and cheapest) to train with.

    the barrel length adds velocity thus enhancing the terminal effects of defensive ammunition designed for pistol length barrels.

    just playing devil’s advocate vs your arguments, a ‘pistol’ ‘pcc’ (ex. a scorpion with a brace) requires no stamp, so you’d be covered there as well.

    not to mention it can be the cheapest thing to shoot besides 22LR
     

    MadDuner

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    a pcc is one of the most controllable weapons for self defense and the easiest (and cheapest) to train with.

    the barrel length adds velocity thus enhancing the terminal effects of defensive ammunition designed for pistol length barrels.

    just playing devil’s advocate vs your arguments, a ‘pistol’ ‘pcc’ (ex. a scorpion with a brace) requires no stamp, so you’d be covered there as well.

    not to mention it can be the cheapest thing to shoot besides 22LR
    I’m still reloading components I bought many moons ago.... $.13 a round for 147gr 1000fps 9mm through the Scorpion’s suppressor. Puts a smile on your face to hear it clanging off steel.
     
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    Naaman

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    a pcc is one of the most controllable weapons for self defense and the easiest (and cheapest) to train with.

    the barrel length adds velocity thus enhancing the terminal effects of defensive ammunition designed for pistol length barrels.

    just playing devil’s advocate vs your arguments, a ‘pistol’ ‘pcc’ (ex. a scorpion with a brace) requires no stamp, so you’d be covered there as well.

    not to mention it can be the cheapest thing to shoot besides 22LR
    I completely get it, and I tend to agree (and I appreciate the challenge to my viewpoint (y)). In a scenario where neither a handgun or a 5.56 braced pistol is an option, I could see spending the coin on a braced PCC in 9mm. But then, if it was going to be the "one gun," then why not go 10mm? (availability and cost of ammo could be argued, for sure). I feel confident enough with a handgun to see a 9mm PCC as more of a novelty, especially when a 10" or 11" AR pistol in 5.56 is a choice at a similar price point.

    Here's a bit of data that I've looked at to come to my position:

    You can see that for the 147gr (my defensive load of choice) there is almost no value gained by adding barrel length. Even the 124 and 135 grains have what to me seems like a negligible gain in velocity.

    I'm not saying PCCs don't get it done. My position is more like this: if I already have compact sedan and 3/4 ton pick up truck, why bother getting a 4- or 6-cylinder pick up truck that costs the same as getting another 3/4 ton pick up truck? I could just spend that money on gas (ammo).

    Now, the person for whom I started the thread, he only has a compact sedan (handgun). So getting a 6-cyl pick up adds to his capability without being too redundant.

    My mindset right now is that a PCC is on my list, but it's not useful enough to be high on the list. Depending on what happens with ATF/midterms and legislation (especially pro 2A legislation, if that's even a thing anymore... lol), I may move it higher or lower on the list in the coming months.
     
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    WindstormSCR

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    valid points, my only disagreement tends to be with handguns, as the data we have shows that skill with them tends to degrade quickly under stress, as opposed to any longer barreled platform.

    the cited reasons for that tend to vary, but the most compelling evidence right now is the change in optical acuity that accompanies an adrenaline dump coupled with a short sight radius and lesser stability leads to more frequent misses than expected.
     
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    Naaman

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    valid points, my only disagreement tends to be with handguns, as the data we have shows that skill with them tends to degrade quickly under stress, as opposed to any longer barreled platform.

    the cited reasons for that tend to vary, but the most compelling evidence right now is the change in optical acuity that accompanies an adrenaline dump coupled with a short sight radius and lesser stability leads to more frequent misses than expected.
    All things I can certainly attest to, for sure. It's definitely harder to keep my pistol skill up at an "acceptable" level (if one can ever be truly satisfied). Even just adding in time pressure can muck it all up.

    Incidentally, I have always considered the handgun to be my "primary." I learned (and improved overall) more about shooting when training on handguns than on long guns. I've noticed that there is a one-way carry over: skill with a handgun seems to transfer to shooting a rifle, but learning a rifle does not help with handgun marksmanship.

    In the army, I was more confident in my rifle (for obvious reasons), but carried a handgun 100% of the times I was armed (not by choice, which is why spent my free time training much more pistol than rifle). Only ever carried a rifle on deployment, and even then, the rifle was a backup to a belt fed on a HMMWV.

    In training, I have learned to apply a principle preached by Wyatt Earp: you have to learn to go slow in a hurry. I have never had to apply this in the real world, so... who knows if I will "default" to my training (assuming the training is targeting the right reflexes/myelination, etc.).
     

    Greg Langelius *

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    My PCC is the 16" Ruger PC in 9mm. With interchangeable mag well adapters, mags from several manufacturers' guns can be accommodated.

    I have the one for the Ruger American 9, and my 10 17rd mags interchange between both guns seamlessly. The PC is a take-down gun and fits in my sling-pack.

    Off the bench and a sandbag you can cover its group with a hand at 100yd. It's not intended for anything with more precision than Home Defense, so I'm very happy with how it does.

    I use it with a low power dot scope, but it comes with a very serviceable peep rear sight.

    Note, finally, that the controls and cocking lever on the Ruger PC 9 can be switched side to side (It still ejects to the right).

    Review - it really is a fun gun!

    Greg
     
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