I know this is going to be highly subjective and based off personal preference. In your professional, amateur, know-it-all, humble, etc. What do you consider to be the top three in the top tier level of scopes? Having been on here for a couple years now and seeing what people say it seems to be in no particular order: TT, S&B, and ZCO.
Rifle Scopes Top Three Top Tier Scopes
- Thread starter cjs88
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Kinda depends on your intended use. For PRS? Hunting? Benchrest? Urban Snipery-sniping?
Your three are near the top for sure. But only for some of these disciplines.
Your three are near the top for sure. But only for some of these disciplines.
Never owned a S&B. ZCO #1, TT very close #2. Others will disagree, which is fine, boils down to personal preference. I’ve seen a few raves about Hensoldt. No personal experience there. But, for the money, I’m going with ZCO 5-27. 4-20’s are supposed to be even better
The short answer is, "it depends."
This conversation almost always devolves into "is TT worth the extra money over ZCO" and I own both, love both, and still favor the 315P over my 4-20 ZCO. I like the turrets a little better, like the re-zero a lot better, like the eye box a little better, and not a huge fan of the weight but it is an acceptable tradeoff. Both are good in low light, both have tracked true for me (which is, for a turret-spinner, the single most important thing.)
And a shout out to Hensoldt as a scope (not talking about servicing them), best image quality I have experienced. My favorite scope in terms of optical performance is an old 3-12 SFP and it is literally almost impossible to get a bad sight picture on - really that good. But the turrets are not awesome and the illumination is iffy at best (this one went in for service many years ago and has been solid ever since, but it did go home for service...)
This conversation almost always devolves into "is TT worth the extra money over ZCO" and I own both, love both, and still favor the 315P over my 4-20 ZCO. I like the turrets a little better, like the re-zero a lot better, like the eye box a little better, and not a huge fan of the weight but it is an acceptable tradeoff. Both are good in low light, both have tracked true for me (which is, for a turret-spinner, the single most important thing.)
And a shout out to Hensoldt as a scope (not talking about servicing them), best image quality I have experienced. My favorite scope in terms of optical performance is an old 3-12 SFP and it is literally almost impossible to get a bad sight picture on - really that good. But the turrets are not awesome and the illumination is iffy at best (this one went in for service many years ago and has been solid ever since, but it did go home for service...)
Top tier scopes for what? F-Class? Hunting hogs at night, big game out west, whitetails in the south, etc? 3-gun? ELR?
Of the scopes I've owned, and for the combination of hunting and "practical target" shooting that I do, I would rank as follows:
#1 ZCO (specifically 4-20. I don't have enough time with my 5-27 to rank it)
#2 Tangent Theta (TT315M)
#3 Kahles (K525i)
Of the scopes I've owned, and for the combination of hunting and "practical target" shooting that I do, I would rank as follows:
#1 ZCO (specifically 4-20. I don't have enough time with my 5-27 to rank it)
#2 Tangent Theta (TT315M)
#3 Kahles (K525i)
I'd be happy to go over the pros and cons of the different scopes with you when you have some time, feel free to call us at 916-670-1103
I have a S and B and I love it. But I have had it a while now. No issues. Now it seems like they just have a 2 year warranty. Surprised no one has mentioned Nightforce. I hear nothing but rave reviews about the ZCO. TT also seems to garner great reviews. In for the information, as I am considering upgrading my Strike Eagle for my RimX.
Ummm, what? When did that happen? So S&B scopes now have a 2 year warranty. That’s a problem. For the price, they should have a MUCH better warranty than 2 years. If that’s the case, no more S&B for me. It will be TT, ZCO and/or Nightforce.
That’s what I gather from their website. I looked it up because I started researching scopes just the other day. Maybe someone else can enlighten me otherwise.
Depends on what you're doing with the rifle. But for me it's ZCO and TT >>> everything else
other than a slightly better turret feel though I don't think TT is $1000-1200 better than ZCO, hence why I have a 527 and another one soon with the mpct3x
other than a slightly better turret feel though I don't think TT is $1000-1200 better than ZCO, hence why I have a 527 and another one soon with the mpct3x
For me its Schmidt & Bender at the top, right along with Kahles and ZCO. Its really comes down to what reticles, turrets, feautures you prefer.
Hensoldt could have been up there too, they are wonderful to look through but the reticles and turrets are stuck in the past. The new Zeiss scope could just be the ticket to get them up on the top shelf for competition shooters as well.
Hensoldt could have been up there too, they are wonderful to look through but the reticles and turrets are stuck in the past. The new Zeiss scope could just be the ticket to get them up on the top shelf for competition shooters as well.
I have seen A LOT of people liking the ZCO 4-20 better than the ZCO 5-27. Any elaboration on those opinions?
I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the PMII 3-27 high power since they're on sale. I am going to use it for target/long range shooting. Only other optic I really have experience with is my Swarovski z8i and briefly an HD II.
I am also curious. A 2 year warranty for an >4k scope doesn't seem right. Can't find anything on what "statutory warranty claims of the buyer" means. I've seen others on here say the 30 year applies to a lot of the scope but only the 2 year applies to some.
Any one have experience with S&B warranty claims and what it covers?
Any one have experience with S&B warranty claims and what it covers?
I’m a NF fan. I think the 4-16 atacr with the covered windage, locking low profile elevation turret is a great scope. Works nicely on my AIAT.
My AXMC wears a NF ATACR 7-35. But don’t have enough time behind that yet to judge
ZCO would be my next purchase. Not that it would do anything better for my use then the NF though
I also run NF comp on fclass rifle. Have used the NXS line as well
My AXMC wears a NF ATACR 7-35. But don’t have enough time behind that yet to judge
ZCO would be my next purchase. Not that it would do anything better for my use then the NF though
I also run NF comp on fclass rifle. Have used the NXS line as well
Imo- ZCO/TT, Kahles , (Zeiss new scope is really good yall, and may be the best glass out there) ,SB, March, Minox ZP5, - are all great glass. It comes down to the features you value much more so than glass if you are talking about one of these.
There are some other good ones like NF atac and Leupold M5 but I don't think they are really in that top tier of glass. But glass is super subjective. Once you are in the top tier features are way more important in choosing than "glass quality ".
There are some other good ones like NF atac and Leupold M5 but I don't think they are really in that top tier of glass. But glass is super subjective. Once you are in the top tier features are way more important in choosing than "glass quality ".
Obviously you've looked through the new Zeiss. What did you think of the eye box?
I didn't notice any issues but honestly I can't speak to that well because I didn't look at it on the gun because I shoot lefty and they didn't have a lefty. I did look for a little while comparing on the tripod but they were all hard to get picture set up that way because you don't have anything to rest your head on. You could see the washed out black on the white targets with that zeiss very well and that impressed me. It's very clear glass.
I have been eyeing the same sale for the PMII Tremor 3. At 4K seems like a solid scope. I have a PMII H59 that I have on my AI AXMC and it’s been stellar. My brother also liked it so much that he bought the exact same scope for his AI. I was going to move the H59 to my rimfire and the Tremor 3 to my AI since it has a busy reticle. I doubt you would ever need the warranty but it’s nice to know that you are covered if the need ever arises.
Do it! Granted, I have no time behind the scope yet. It will be here Monday and then I'll take it out on the weekend. I'm sure if you like the H59 you'll like the tremor3. They look almost identical, the tremor just has extra markings for adjustments it seems, to my untrained eye at least. The sale was the only wat I figured I could afford an S&B at this point in time. Almost bit on the k624i sale earlier in the week.
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That's a good one.
I have owned most of the top tier scopes and find the ZC-4x20 to be my favorite.The TT-315M is also a outstanding scope.
Those will be next. Planning on a 22lr build for cheap target shooting in the near future. Maybe one of those will end up on it
have you had the ZCO 527? If so pros and cons of that compared to the ZCO 420?
Please tell me that is a joke. Please.
I'm no optics expert, but from my experience most of it comes down to the fact that it's an overall shorter scope and a smaller magnification range. The 420 has a slightly brighter image than the 527 because its overall shorter length = more light transmission to the eye; and it also has a wider FOV than the 527 because of that smaller magnification range. It's a great "do-all" scope. But since my main purpose is on the competition side of practical target shooting I run the 527.
I never owned the ZC-5x27.
I own all three scopes in questions. Including Hensoldt 3.5x26, Minox, Nightforce Beast.
If we’re talking glass and optical performance it goes
-Tangent/Hensoldt tied
-Zero Comp
-Minox
-Schmidt
-Nightforce
Minox is a scope that is right now still a little under rated, but it is the only scope out there that is (almost) optically on par with TT , Hensoldt, Z comp. the problem is it doesn’t quite have the reliability just yet, so therefore S&B and an ATACR would be a slight better overall scope (not by much) like I said the glass is Minox is better than both of them.
I’ve owned a Kahles and have many friends with the new one and it is still NOT on par with a Schmidt Bender. So I dont consider it a top 5 scope, it’s slightly outside of that.
As someone else mentioned you will see a lot of people debate the price difference of the TT and Z Comp, and that will a lot of the time cause people to put Z Comp ahead of TT, but it is NOT. You have to put money aside and pretend they are the same price. TT is better optically and turrets and parallax. How much better?? Well that’s subjective. My Z Comp has a couple advantages over my TT and vice versa, but at the end of the day TT advantages are more significant. Such as best turrets on the market for dialling without looking, best parallax, better in mirage than any scope. Z Comp has the advantage in a slightly more forgiving eyebox, but that is not enough to prefer it over TT because I have never ever used my TT and felt I could have done better on a stage IF I had my Z Comp. Some people will also say they like the less stiff parallax knob and mag ring but that is so subject and doesn’t make a difference one bit, and I also prefer stiffer.
I looked into another Hensoldt and where I am I was quoted a 2 year wait, so I don't even consider it an option. That being said the order of the top scopes I’m confident are as followes
1)TT
2)Z Comp
- or 1a) TT 1b) Z Comp (however you want to put it)
3) Minox/Schmidt (slight edge to s&b for reliability)
4) nightforce
5) Kahles (like I said Kahles is around 6th because of #3 being tied)
And the new March scope will most likely be in the top 5 over Kahles, I Haven’t looked through it while mounted on a rifle yet or had it side by side with the others yet. But it will most likely nudge out Kahles and Nightforce and maybe Schmidt, but obviously reliability/ruggedness will need some longevity testing.
If we’re talking glass and optical performance it goes
-Tangent/Hensoldt tied
-Zero Comp
-Minox
-Schmidt
-Nightforce
Minox is a scope that is right now still a little under rated, but it is the only scope out there that is (almost) optically on par with TT , Hensoldt, Z comp. the problem is it doesn’t quite have the reliability just yet, so therefore S&B and an ATACR would be a slight better overall scope (not by much) like I said the glass is Minox is better than both of them.
I’ve owned a Kahles and have many friends with the new one and it is still NOT on par with a Schmidt Bender. So I dont consider it a top 5 scope, it’s slightly outside of that.
As someone else mentioned you will see a lot of people debate the price difference of the TT and Z Comp, and that will a lot of the time cause people to put Z Comp ahead of TT, but it is NOT. You have to put money aside and pretend they are the same price. TT is better optically and turrets and parallax. How much better?? Well that’s subjective. My Z Comp has a couple advantages over my TT and vice versa, but at the end of the day TT advantages are more significant. Such as best turrets on the market for dialling without looking, best parallax, better in mirage than any scope. Z Comp has the advantage in a slightly more forgiving eyebox, but that is not enough to prefer it over TT because I have never ever used my TT and felt I could have done better on a stage IF I had my Z Comp. Some people will also say they like the less stiff parallax knob and mag ring but that is so subject and doesn’t make a difference one bit, and I also prefer stiffer.
I looked into another Hensoldt and where I am I was quoted a 2 year wait, so I don't even consider it an option. That being said the order of the top scopes I’m confident are as followes
1)TT
2)Z Comp
- or 1a) TT 1b) Z Comp (however you want to put it)
3) Minox/Schmidt (slight edge to s&b for reliability)
4) nightforce
5) Kahles (like I said Kahles is around 6th because of #3 being tied)
And the new March scope will most likely be in the top 5 over Kahles, I Haven’t looked through it while mounted on a rifle yet or had it side by side with the others yet. But it will most likely nudge out Kahles and Nightforce and maybe Schmidt, but obviously reliability/ruggedness will need some longevity testing.
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Like I said, I don’t have much time with my 5-27, so take this with a grain of salt. My 4-20 is the sole optic that I’ve owned that I like more over time. I haven’t “had them all”, but compared to Tangent Theta, Kahles, ATACR, AMG, G2R, Mk5, and some others, the 4-20 is just outstanding by comparison.
There is of course hyperbole thrown out with many of these high end optics reviews. But for the most part, what has been said about the 4-20 holds true.
I’m not a mag whore, and the 4-20 does everything I want it to do. I have a hard time imagining that the 5-27 will really out perform the 4-20 in many (or any) area, but time will tell. Controls are the same, “image” is the same, I can’t tell a difference in FoV, eyebox seems same or similar, etc. the 56mm objective should help more in low light, but I’ve yet to have the slightest issue with the 4-20’s 50mm objective.
For me, the 4-20 represents the best do-everything package that I’ve owned. The downfalls are weight, and I would prefer a longer optic (but I’m sure I’m the minority there). If ZCO came out with a 26oz 420H, I’d sell my tangent and the 5-27 to pick up a couple of ‘H’ models.
As I mentioned above, the Tangent falls just behind the ZCO overall, followed by Kahles. Then below that is a separate tier with ATACR, G2R, etc. IMO.
I know people get mad with debates about this sort of thing and people get offended, but I am interested in a civil discussion.
1) can you explain your reason you think ZComp > Tangent?
And secondly, you really think Kahles > s&b, nightforce, Minox?
Do you say that because of preference of location of windage turret and parallax?
Top Ten Best Tactical/ELR Scopes, in no particular order:
NF
SB
USO
ZCO
TT
Kahles
March
Hensoldt
Leupold
Vortex
For me, the list would be greatly reduced after picking the top five for the important variable of "field proven/vetted, based on durability, reliability, numbers in use, and number of years in service".
Then I'd apply the old "best value" to one of the top five.
NF
SB
USO
ZCO
TT
Kahles
March
Hensoldt
Leupold
Vortex
For me, the list would be greatly reduced after picking the top five for the important variable of "field proven/vetted, based on durability, reliability, numbers in use, and number of years in service".
Then I'd apply the old "best value" to one of the top five.
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After years of reading comments, reviews, comparisons & opinions, the main theme that I see is that the scopes at the top of the list are so close in optical performance that in practical terms it really doesn't matter which scope one chooses.
Having said that & by all accounts I've read, the TT has the optical edge when the time can be taken to compare & perceive the difference, otherwise it is of no practical benefit over the ZCO, S & B, Minox, March or NF for the vast majority of applications.
When all's considered, it more often than not boils down to the buyers budget or the buyers perspective on the value of the fine details which separate the scopes.
For my main purpose, the scope has to have a good eye box. When shooting out of a darkened, cramped vehicle by spotlight, it doesn't matter how superior the optics are if the scope has a tight eye box. But again, most of the aforementioned scopes have very comparable exit pupil dimensions which, doesn't always account for a similar eye box experience.
The scope I have been looking at very closely is the Schmidt 4-16x56 Ultra Bright for my main purposes but, they're not a commonly owned scope & so not easy to obtain an opinion from an owner.
If there's anyone out there who owns or has owned the Schmidt 4-16x46 UB, please feel free to give your opinion.
Having said that & by all accounts I've read, the TT has the optical edge when the time can be taken to compare & perceive the difference, otherwise it is of no practical benefit over the ZCO, S & B, Minox, March or NF for the vast majority of applications.
When all's considered, it more often than not boils down to the buyers budget or the buyers perspective on the value of the fine details which separate the scopes.
For my main purpose, the scope has to have a good eye box. When shooting out of a darkened, cramped vehicle by spotlight, it doesn't matter how superior the optics are if the scope has a tight eye box. But again, most of the aforementioned scopes have very comparable exit pupil dimensions which, doesn't always account for a similar eye box experience.
The scope I have been looking at very closely is the Schmidt 4-16x56 Ultra Bright for my main purposes but, they're not a commonly owned scope & so not easy to obtain an opinion from an owner.
If there's anyone out there who owns or has owned the Schmidt 4-16x46 UB, please feel free to give your opinion.
I’ve held out long enough on the secrets to long range success, let’s go straight to the top….
Military overrun (yet to be determined), dual reticles (engage 2 targets at once), humongous turrets (do they work?? Who fucking cares look how tactical they are!!!!) illuminated reticle (red/blue/green) and picatinny rails galore (for the urban snipers, lights/lasers/holographic sights)
And the box!!! It’s so shiny
Military overrun (yet to be determined), dual reticles (engage 2 targets at once), humongous turrets (do they work?? Who fucking cares look how tactical they are!!!!) illuminated reticle (red/blue/green) and picatinny rails galore (for the urban snipers, lights/lasers/holographic sights)
And the box!!! It’s so shiny
Well there you go. Why bother with a TT, S & B, ZCO or any of those. Those assholes have been scrimping & holding out on us. That scope you showed is obviously better & no doubt, 1/10 the price.
I’ve held out long enough on the secrets to long range success, let’s go straight to the top….
Military overrun (yet to be determined), dual reticles (engage 2 targets at once), humongous turrets (do they work?? Who fucking cares look how tactical they are!!!!) illuminated reticle (red/blue/green) and picatinny rails galore (for the urban snipers, lights/lasers/holographic sights)
And the box!!! It’s so shiny
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For some reason i feel the need to go work concrete
ZCO would be an exception to that. Made is Austria, serviced/repaired in the USA if needed.
It wouldn't for me, because there'd be no realistic way for me to sue them to enforce the warranty if they didn't honor their obligations. Life is too short to deal with even the remote possibility that'd be an issue.
ZCO 5-27, NF ATACR (Have a couple), S&B (have a couple), TT ( have used but don't own)
All are great and all have pluses and minuses
All are great and all have pluses and minuses
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Hey sweet cheeksI’ve held out long enough on the secrets to long range success, let’s go straight to the top….
Military overrun (yet to be determined), dual reticles (engage 2 targets at once), humongous turrets (do they work?? Who fucking cares look how tactical they are!!!!) illuminated reticle (red/blue/green) and picatinny rails galore (for the urban snipers, lights/lasers/holographic sights)
And the box!!! It’s so shiny
View attachment 7735929View attachment 7735930View attachment 7735931
