Rifle Scopes Top tier scope recommendation

[CroweMan]

So I currently run an element theos, and it’s great! But I’ve been going back and forth on a zco or kahles. I’m thinking either the 527 or 540i. What are opinions on reticle thickness? I tried a vortex razor 3, but it was too thin for my eyes. The theos reticle (thickness/presence) is what I’d like to have if possible. Seems maybe zco does this a bit better? Any help would be great as the guys I shoot with don’t run either scope. Primarily razor gen 3’s or atacr on the more premium side.

 

[CSTactical]

So I currently run an element theos, and it’s great! But I’ve been going back and forth on a zco or khales. I’m thinking either the 527 or 540i. What are opinions on reticle thickness? I tried a vortex razor 3, but it was too thin for my eyes. The theos reticle (thickness/presence) is what I’d like to have if possible. Seems maybe zco does this a bit better? Any help would be great as the guys I shoot with don’t run either scope. Primarily razor gen 3’s or atacr on the more premium side.

Give me a call at 916-628-3490, I’ll be happy to go over the pros and cons of those various options. - Richard

 

[Maurygold]

Zco is the pinnacle. Kahles is YouTube shill hype. Easy choice there - zco

 

[JaoeyP]

So I currently run an element theos, and it’s great! But I’ve been going back and forth on a zco or kahles. I’m thinking either the 527 or 540i. What are opinions on reticle thickness? I tried a vortex razor 3, but it was too thin for my eyes. The theos reticle (thickness/presence) is what I’d like to have if possible. Seems maybe zco does this a bit better? Any help would be great as the guys I shoot with don’t run either scope. Primarily razor gen 3’s or atacr on the more premium side.

I have had a ZCO 5-27 for 3 years. It's a great scope. Awesome glass, good reticles, great controls. Nothing to complain about.

I'm switching to a K540i. I was curious about their extra 40% field of view. Did a side by side with a squad mate's at the last match I shot. It's not just the field of view. The appearance of steel at 1000 yards and the ability to resolve more detail was markedly better.

The Kahles is not perfect. The windage knobs suck. The clicks are a bit mushy and if you get a left side windage model it adjusts backwards from what I think it should. I don't love the SKMR4 reticle but I can use it. I'll put up with both of these for that image.

Edit to add I think either have a thick enough reticle it won't be an issue for you.

 

[JaoeyP]

Zco is the pinnacle. Kahles is YouTube shill hype. Easy choice there - zco

Have you done a side by side of these scopes?

 

[db2000]

I have had a ZCO 5-27 for 3 years. It's a great scope. Awesome glass, good reticles, great controls. Nothing to complain about.

I'm switching to a K540i. I was curious about their extra 40% field of view. Did a side by side with a squad mate's at the last match I shot. It's not just the field of view. The appearance of steel at 1000 yards and the ability to resolve more detail was markedly better.

The Kahles is not perfect. The windage knobs suck. The clicks are a bit mushy and if you get a left side windage model it adjusts backwards from what I think it should. I don't love the SKMR4 reticle but I can use it. I'll put up with both of these for that image.

It’s been established, scopes are subjective. Just search through the volume of threads comparing various ones. There’s always a few outliers that are willing to cuss and fight strangers on the internet over their opinions.

 

[JaoeyP]

It’s been established, scopes are subjective. Just search through the volume of threads comparing various ones. There’s always a few outliers that are willing to cuss and fight strangers on the internet over their opinions.

So you've done a side by side with these two scopes and came up with a different opinion? Where was I cussing and fighting?

 

[OREGUN]

Strong preference for ZCO out of those two. Check the px. I think there’s a couple available.

Is the 5-40 still suffering from erector trouble or has that passed?

 

[db2000]

So you've done a side by side with these two scopes and came up with a different opinion? Where was I cussing and fighting?

Not everything is about you lol
It was just a generalized, factual statement.
Me comparing any scopes side by side is just another anecdotal experience, which is my point.

 

[JaoeyP]

Not everything is about you lol
It was just a generalized, factual statement.
Me comparing any scopes side by side is just another anecdotal experience, which is my point.

Well then can we make it about validating my experience and confirming my bias?

 

[Midpack]

Strong preference for ZCO out of those two. Check the px. I think there’s a couple available.

Is the 5-40 still suffering from erector trouble or has that passed?

My understanding is it's by and large resolved with the three ovals issue rating it's head still from the early ones but guys not saying anything until now

 

[TheOE800]

Have you done a side by side of these scopes?

You can safely ignore that poster.

 

[Maurygold]

You can safely ignore that poster.

Do you think kahles is better than zco?

 

[TheOE800]

Do you think kahles is better than zco?

No, I think you’re retarded.

 

[Maurygold]

No, I think you’re retarded.

So you agree with me and just want to act like a little bitch. Noted

 

[db2000]

And, my point’s proven

 

[JaoeyP]

Do you think kahles is better than zco?

The image quality of the K540i is better than the image quality of the 5-27 ZCO. It's not subjective or even close. It is better. I say this as someone who LOVES his ZCO. I think it's probably the only area the Kahles beats the ZCO. Everything else is either even or the ZCO is better.

 

[Maurygold]

The image quality of the K540i is better than the image quality of the 5-27 ZCO. It's not subjective or even close. It is better. I say this as someone who LOVES his ZCO. I think it's probably the only area the Kahles beats the ZCO. Everything else is either even or the ZCO is better.

I think image quality at the top end of scopes is pretty subjective. And I don’t think just having better glass makes it a better scope - looks at Swarovski.

 

[JaoeyP]

I think image quality at the top end of scopes is pretty subjective. And I don’t think just having better glass makes it a better scope - looks at Swarovski.

I mostly think you're right. I've put ZCO next to a Minox ZP5 and a Tangent Theta. VS those two optics it's really close. Close enough that you could absolutely have sample variance that from scope to scope or person to person you might get mixed results in what people think which optic looks better. But the ZCO next to the K540i is not close in the image department. Not remotely.

 

[Midpack]

At the top tier of the scope market which is where the scopes being discussed i think it's honestly disingenuous to try to make a blanket statement of one scope is unequivocally better than another optically. They are all close enough optically that one users eye is going to be see one as better then the other. As far as other features go that's primarily personal opinion on what you want /need. I prefer the kahles parallax as a lefty but I also know that doesn't make it better then any of the others just like my tangents turrets feel better than am the rest to me but again doesn't make it better.

 

[Bacarrat]

Got a ZCO 5-27 the other month. Frankly, not a huge fan of it. MPTC2 Reticle is too thick at max power IMO, and I hate locking turrets. At the high end of optics, glass quality is very subjective. Hate on me all you want, I still prefer the S&B PMII and NF ATACR. Looked through a new March PRS scope recently and was very impressed with it. That might be my next scope I try.

 

[JaoeyP]

At the top tier of the scope market which is where the scopes being discussed i think it's honestly disingenuous to try to make a blanket statement of one scope is unequivocally better than another optically. They are all close enough optically that one users eye is going to be see one as better then the other.

I would have agreed with you before doing the K540i/ZCO side by side. I think it's another tier better than ZCO, Tangent, Minox ZP5, and the previous Kahles models. I completely understand that you're doubtful of what I'm saying. Find one out there at a match and do a side by side for yourself. I know that's hard to believe. But think about it like this- you wouldn't think it subjective if I said the K540i looked noticeably better than a lower tier scope. Maybe a Burris XTR III, Gen 2 Razor, or Mark 5. It would make sense. Then isn't it possible that what we accept as top tier optics might some day become second tier? At some point couldn't an optics manufacturer build a product distinguishably better? One that has image quality so good it is better than our current top tier and it's not even remotely subjective? That's the K540i.

 

[Midpack]

I would have agreed with you before doing the K540i/ZCO side by side. I think it's another tier better than ZCO, Tangent, Minox ZP5, and the previous Kahles models. I completely understand that you're doubtful of what I'm saying. Find one out there at a match and do a side by side for yourself. I know that's hard to believe. But think about it like this- you wouldn't think it subjective if I said the K540i looked noticeably better than a lower tier scope. Maybe a Burris XTR III, Gen 2 Razor, or Mark 5. It would make sense. Then isn't it possible that what we accept as top tier optics might some day become second tier? At some point couldn't an optics manufacturer build a product distinguishably better? One that has image quality so good it is better than our current top tier and it's not even remotely subjective? That's the K540i.

Dude just stop. I've literally had them all side but side and myself and many others feel the way I expressed. All hard shilling like this dies is torn people off. Literally none of the alpha scopes just blow the others out of the water. You sound ignorant and no one is going to bother considering your opinion when you are this way. Go hang out in the dnt/arken sections where your approach fits in

 

[OREGUN]

Somebody’s on the payroll…..

 

[JaoeyP]

Dude just stop. I've literally had them all side but side and myself and many others feel the way I expressed. All hard shilling like this dies is torn people off. Literally none of the alpha scopes just blow the others out of the water. You sound ignorant and no one is going to bother considering your opinion when you are this way. Go hang out in the dnt/arken sections where your approach fits in

Do you even know what a shill is??

"A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with said person or organization, or have been paid to do so."

I have zero association with Kahles/Swarovski. They pay me nothing. I do work in the industry. And have had associations with 3 other optical companies, none of which have I ever shilled for.

ETA: I don't even own a Kahles. Nor have I ever. But I will.

 

[Midpack]

Do you even know what a shill is??

"A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with said person or organization, or have been paid to do so."

I have zero association with Kahles/Swarovski. They pay me nothing. I do work in the industry. And have had associations with 3 other optical companies, none of which have I ever shilled for.

ETA: I don't even own a Kahles. Nor have I ever. But I will.

Got it...just an unpaid ball gargler who thinks his opinion is the only right one...as if these scopes aren't being compared across the country at every match since they hit the street and and the overall consensus has been yes it's alpha tier but it doesn't just overwhelm the competition....FYI I have one and enjoy it along with zco and tangents. Now go choke the kahles dick deeper and stop tagging me because I I value your opinion or even what you have to say in general at this point as much as the shit I flushed down the toilet while writing this response.

 

[JaoeyP]

Got it...just an unpaid ball gargler who thinks his opinion is the only right one...as if these scopes aren't being compared across the country at every match since they hit the street and and the overall consensus has been yes it's alpha tier but it doesn't just overwhelm the competition....FYI I have one and enjoy it along with zco and tangents. Now go choke the kahles dick deeper and stop tagging me because I I value your opinion or even what you have to say in general at this point as much as the shit I flushed down the toilet while writing this response.

TRIGGERED!

 

[CroweMan]

So, I think I’m gonna do what’s not fun and exercise some patience…The theos is definitely not losing me any points right now. I have some bigger nrlx matches coming up in the fall, and based on what I’ve read, the best thing to do seems to be to try and get behind either scope and let my eye choose. Features are easy enough to research online. Hopefully I’ll get an opportunity to look through both and manipulate the controls to get a more informed, “test-drive” opinion.

Thanks all for the input!

 

[JaoeyP]

So, I think I’m gonna do what’s not fun and exercise some patience…The theos is definitely not losing me any points right now. I have some bigger nrlx matches coming up in the fall, and based on what I’ve read, the best thing to do seems to be to try and get behind either scope and let my eye choose. Features are easy enough to research online. Hopefully I’ll get an opportunity to look through both and manipulate the controls to get a more informed, “test-drive” opinion.

Thanks all for the input!

Sorry for derailing your thread. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[CroweMan]

Sorry for derailing your thread. Good luck and enjoy!

Passion and preference can be a double-edged sword at times! Appreciate all the help from everyone

 

[Herb Stoner]

Some just have to have the “best” scope without regard for what really works best for them. Sort of like insecure girls who are a mess if they don’t get the right shoes.

I have both - ZCO 527 and Kahles 525. I’m happy with both though there may be some very small things I like in one over the other. No clear “winner”. I’ve yet to be shooting with one of them and felt I was compromising anything that really mattered over the other scope. Try and get behind them and go with what works comfortably for you.

 

[kthomas]

Discourse about scopes is polluted by people seeking confirmation on their $5k+ purchases. A lot of petty and asinine comments when it comes to this subject.

Also, $5k+ for a scope these days is crazy. Law of diminishing returns is incredibly applicable here.

 

[stemikel]

Have you considered March? The 4.5x28 is great. The 5x42 gen 2 is getting a lot of attention in these threads.

 

[CroweMan]

Have you considered March? The 4.5x28 is great. The 5x42 gen 2 is getting a lot of attention in these threads.

I’ve read some good things about March and their new prs scope, but the scope is lacking quite a few features for me personally.

 

[db2000]

The image quality of the K540i is better than the image quality of the 5-27 ZCO. It's not subjective or even close. It is better. I say this as someone who LOVES his ZCO. I think it's probably the only area the Kahles beats the ZCO. Everything else is either even or the ZCO is better.

Makes a subjective statement then says “it’s not subjective”

 

[JaoeyP]

Makes a subjective statement then says “it’s not subjective”

Do a side by side with a ZCO. Crank them both up to 25x and look at plates at 1000 yards. Once you've done so, if you still think it's subjective let me know.

 

[JaoeyP]

I get I look like this. But whatever.

 

[wooferocau]

S&B 6-36 ...is another great optic to consider,,

 

[kthomas]

S&B 6-36 ...is another great optic to consider,,

That's a scope I would be eyeing hard if I was in the market for a scope today.

 

[TheOE800]

That's a scope I would be eyeing hard if I was in the market for a scope today.

Pricing is untenable, though TT is dumber.

 

[kthomas]

Pricing is untenable, though TT is dumber.

It seems like all the top tier scopes have ridiculous MSRPs these days.

Though EuroOptic has a few different S+B 6-36 models priced around or less than ZCO 527s.

 

[Imw787]

Every single one of the scopes mentioned here are incredible with difference in the area emphasized by the manufacturer. No wrong choice IMO just personal preference.

One question I do have is why seemingly none of the Kahles sponsored guys have moved over to the 540. Anyone have insight?

 

[Maurygold]

Every single one of the scopes mentioned here are incredible with difference in the area emphasized by the manufacturer. No wrong choice IMO just personal preference.

One question I do have is why seemingly none of the Kahles sponsored guys have moved over to the 540. Anyone have insight?

Most likely not giving huge discounts on them which is the only reason people shot them before.

 

[kthomas]

Every single one of the scopes mentioned here are incredible with difference in the area emphasized by the manufacturer. No wrong choice IMO just personal preference.

One question I do have is why seemingly none of the Kahles sponsored guys have moved over to the 540. Anyone have insight?

Are the Khales shooters actually not shooting the K540?

 

[CK1.0]

I run a ZCO 527 with their 1X reticle and think it's about as good as it gets... and if I were to have any problems, US-based support means they will have me taken care of in no time.

I had run a few different Razor G3s previously, and the reticle was a little thin and weird for my eyes too. What's strange is, IIRC, the RG3's and ZCO's reticles are about the same thickness as far as specs... but that EBR-7D with its tree and all those little hashes everywhere seems busy AF compared to the refreshingly uncluttered and open ZCO MPCT-1X reticle where the line thickness seems just fine.

I made the switch mainly just for the reticle, and that alone was worth it to me.

I'm not stuck in my ways, and could see myself trying the new 5x42 March PRS scope (which is very similar, save the March's larger FOV). But, I'm not ready to drop that much coin knowing that dealing with any potential issues might mean a round-trip halfway around the globe back to the land of the rising sun.

I've checked out the Kahles K540 next to my ZCO527, and while neck and neck, when set around the same magnification I'd run them (~15x-20x), FOV aside, to my eyes, the ZCO's glass was still better between my particular ZCO and the couple of Kahles samples I've looked through. The two K540s I've seen so far had obvious distortion around the edges, which made half of their fancy-pants extra FOV worthless. Besides, if/when the Kahles messes up (or I break it), that'd mean a trip back to Austria. Nope.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Are the Khales shooters actually not shooting the K540?

Some are. I really like the 540.
All the top scopes have pros and cons.
Everyone perceives glass and values features differently.

ZCO
TT735
K540i
March PRS 542
S&b 636
NF 735
Vortex Gen3 636

Hard to go wrong with any of them.

As far as optically.. I could see where the 540 Kahles looks better than ZCO. That massive FOV makes everything look better.

Anyone looking for one of these scopes needs to get time behind them all or just buy one and see if you like it. Most people who shoot these types are Gona own them all eventually and settle on what they like best.

I love ZCO but every year stuff gets better and Kahles and March are stepping up but time.

At the end of the day guys win matches with mark5 so the c hair difference in alpha scopes in the real world matters little. It's just personal preferences and comfort. Ends up being more mental than anything. Confidence is huge.

 

[Iron Worker]

Can't we all get along LOL

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

That's a scope I would be eyeing hard if I was in the market for a scope today.

Definitely wait for the Euro version to hit the US market. Was not a fan of the FOV restriction in the one I had.

 

[JayOpticspecialist]

Different eyes see and perceive things differently, so get behind them all and give them a try if you can.

 

[91Eunozs]

Honest question because I have almost zero experience even eyeballing them, let alone shooting with them, but has ZCO finally surpassed TT for top dog Alpha scope?

I have a couple S&B scopes and LOVE them, as well as a couple mid-tier Nightforce, one Swarovski and one Zeiss scope, plus quite a few Leupolds for comparison, but finally looking for new glass for my 280AI. I’m leaning towards another S&B (probably a 6-36), but wondering about current thoughts on the latest offerings from ZCO and TT.