TRG 42 APO Saber-FORSST

[jbell]

I am installing a TRG 42 in an Ashbury Precision Ordnance Saber-FORSST chassis and found a few small issues. I thought I would share in case anyone is thinking of doing this mod them self. Keep in mind APO stated that this should be installed by a gunsmith (which I am not, I just tinkerer) so it really isn't advertised as a "drop in". I have been able to complete this install with some simple hand tools and a little thought. Also keep in mind I have a sample rate of 1 therefore my findings are rather inconclusive as far as the big picture so YMMV. I have heard of 1 other install that was much better than mine, just the receiver interface mount was very tight but that person was able to install it with out cutting.



- The receiver interface mount would only go on about 1/4-3/8 of and inch. I found the left side of the dove tail was cut too tight. I used a triangular needle file and opened it up to fit. This took quite some time to get a proper fit. I would tap it on until it started to bind with a soft face hammer and then remove and look for the galling and file that down some. I repeated this until I had a snug (not tight fit).

receiver interface mount right side (did not have to open the dove tail up hardly any):



receiver interface mount left side (did not fit at all!!)



-The chassis tang opening was too tight for the action to fit in. I installed the recoil lug and indexed everything off that. I found the tang area was under cut for the action to fit. I had to open it up for proper clearance and the action to not bind. When I first tried to install the action it would not even set down into the chassis with the recoil lug in place. I don't have a pic of the action binding in the chassis and setting VERY proud.

Dark area just behind the rear action screw hole was the tightest spot:



Here is how much I had to remove for a proper fit. I cut a little and then tried the action again. Each time you remove the tight spot a new one shows up, do this until the tang now floats around the edges:



Action fitting properly



After all that was sorted out I went to install the monolithic pic rail. It sits on the receiver interface mount and over the fore arm and indexes using mortises and tenons and has 2 recoil pins that sit in predrilled holes. The pins were too long (by quite a bit).

Pins in the receiver interface mount, also receiver interface mount now properly fit to the action dovetail and fully installed:



Monolithic pic rail installed with the pins as shipped:



Monolithic rail with pins properly fit:



I am not complaining about this system just trying to give a heads up. I do however think this should have not required this much work to fit together properly. Especially when you factor in the price of this chassis!! I am interested to hear of others findings of how they fit weather they were with a TRG or an other action.

 

[S12A]

i have no doubt this will be bloody awesome when its done , but that amount of work for a high end chassis is bullshit! do TRG's vary that much from spec ?

considering other chassis manufacturers can do drop in fit for many different action types and get great accuracy , any amount of work really is just slackness on their behalf in my opinion

the Ashbury chassis does appeal to me though, and your rifle will be awesome when finished.

 

[jbell]

Well to clarify it is not my rifle I was just doing the install for a friend. I don't know if the TRG was out of spec or the chassis, but it didn't fit. The areas where it didn't fit are "non critical" areas and only need to float (well except for the dovetail that is). So those areas could of been cut slightly larger to compensate for variation in the action. As a side note the bedding area seemed to be OK (short of shooting it to verify), the action set solid and did not rock well after it actually fit in that is...

 

[CoryT]

The TRG's vary enough that the decision was to make recesses to minimum and pins and such to maximum, which is way it's listed as a 'gunsmith' install rather than a 'drop in'. This insures one can get a good tight fit, needing to remove some metal is much better than needing to add some.

 

[Boltfluter]

Very nice job on the install. Seems like alot of work on something in that price range. IMHO.

Regards,
Paul

 

[Gray]

I would think that Remington 700's would very in spec more than a Sako? Nice job on the install, tell the owner to do a review of the chassis on the TRG.

 

[Starbuck]

The TRG's vary enough that the decision was to make recesses to minimum and pins and such to maximum, which is way it's listed as a 'gunsmith' install rather than a 'drop in'. This insures one can get a good tight fit, needing to remove some metal is much better than needing to add some.

Thanks for clarifying that. I had the same issues with the Receiver Interface Mount (too tight) and the Recoil Pins (too long), but that's what files are for I guess. FWIW my barreled action dropped right in with no need to enlarge the tang on the chassis.

Here are a few pics once I got it put together:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ber-forrst-mod-1-who-has-one.html#post2494452

 

[jbell]

The TRG's vary enough that the decision was to make recesses to minimum and pins and such to maximum, which is way it's listed as a 'gunsmith' install rather than a 'drop in'. This insures one can get a good tight fit, needing to remove some metal is much better than needing to add some.

Cory,
I understand that and am not trying to complain about the fit. I just wanted to give a heads up for others who want to do this themselves. This chassis is pure quality throughout. The machining looks very nice and finished off very well (no mill marks to be found) the coating is also a quality job. Hell even the box it came in is a cut above! The instructions provided with the chassis are very thorough and easy to understand. I also like the fact that Ashbury provided torque specs for all the fasteners. All the functions and adjustments are very tight but smooth and easy to use. I am impressed with this chassis for sure, and look forward to shooting it!

Also a note on the recoil pins for the pic rail. I have not yet cut them to fit as it may seem in the first post. The pic of the pic rail fitting properly was taken with the pins removed (I just got tired last night) I wanted to take some time and think it through as to make the best install I can. I measured the pins (0.630") and the holes and it looks like the pins are 0.090" too long. They also are not a very tight fit in the holes, kind of just fall in and out. I would think that a snug pin fit would provide the most support under recoil as opposed to a very loose fit (as far as precision machining goes). I am wandering if I have the wrong pins as being off by 0.090" in holes that APO drilled cant be intentional as that is a dimension that APO controls completely, also the OD is wrong (something may be up there). I am also thinking about making my own pins for a tighter fit in the holes. I can adjust the length easy enough for a proper fit but I cant make the OD of the pins larger or the holes smaller. So Ill roll it around a bit and post my repair at some point.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Thanks for clarifying that. I had the same issues with the Receiver Interface Mount (too tight) and the Recoil Pins (too long), but that's what files are for I guess. FWIW my barreled action dropped right in with no need to enlarge the tang on the chassis.

Here are a few pics once I got it put together:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ber-forrst-mod-1-who-has-one.html#post2494452

That is a beautiful job... I am infatuated with those Saber Forrst chassis and stocks. I need one... not one bit. I already have a folder on my TRG and it's so accurate that changing anything would be just for pure visual appeal... but damn, that does not stop me from lusting after this setup. Thanks for posting and for everyone giving good insight into what needs to be done to fit one.

Re. it not being drop-in... at this level of rifle, the term 'drop-in' need not apply. Hand work is the difference between a 'custom' made of parts bought off e-bay and bolted together on a kitchen table, and a true custom-build. In the end, it's not hard to tell the difference -- on a bench or on the range.

On the subject of the M700's being more or less likely to 'drop in.' Keep in mind that the TRG is very much a hand-fitted rifle. It is very precisely toleranced, but in hand fitting they sacrifice repeatability, allowing some variance between individual rifles to creep in. It is still built with a high level of precision. But precision and repeatability are two vastly different things in manufacturing and mass-production. The M700 is designed with slightly less precision in order to achieve the repeatability needed to mass-produce a rifle. Open up the tolerances a bit, and repeatability becomes easier and FAR less expensive. Not that i am poo-pooing the M700. It's a fine rifle. But it is designed and toleranced built to go together with little or no hand fitting and so its parts-fit repeatability has to be very high. But it's built with a different philosophy from the TRG. Thus I can see Cory's point that "parts that almost fit" are far preferable to parts that are 'too loose.' It's hard to cut metal back onto a stock!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[bm11]

Cory,
I understand that and am not trying to complain about the fit. I just wanted to give a heads up for others who want to do this themselves. This chassis is pure quality throughout. The machining looks very nice and finished off very well (no mill marks to be found) the coating is also a quality job. Hell even the box it came in is a cut above! The instructions provided with the chassis are very thorough and easy to understand. I also like the fact that Ashbury provided torque specs for all the fasteners. All the functions and adjustments are very tight but smooth and easy to use. I am impressed with this chassis for sure, and look forward to shooting it!

Also a note on the recoil pins for the pic rail. I have not yet cut them to fit as it may seem in the first post. The pic of the pic rail fitting properly was taken with the pins removed (I just got tired last night) I wanted to take some time and think it through as to make the best install I can. I measured the pins (0.630") and the holes and it looks like the pins are 0.090" too long. They also are not a very tight fit in the holes, kind of just fall in and out. I would think that a snug pin fit would provide the most support under recoil as opposed to a very loose fit (as far as precision machining goes). I am wandering if I have the wrong pins as being off by 0.090" in holes that APO drilled cant be intentional as that is a dimension that APO controls completely, also the OD is wrong (something may be up there). I am also thinking about making my own pins for a tighter fit in the holes. I can adjust the length easy enough for a proper fit but I cant make the OD of the pins larger or the holes smaller. So Ill roll it around a bit and post my repair at some point.

Thanks jbell.

I think the snug pins make more sense as well, if it is possible to make up a set. Everything is looking fantastic so far!

To clarify- it is my rifle and chassis, I started installing it but realised I was in over my head and do NOT have the personality for level and detail of fitting. I tend to get frustrated and the destructive when things don't go my way.

In any case, jbell is doing me a HUGE favor by doing this, and from what I can see the finished project is going to be fantastic!

-Bob

 

[jbell]

I am going to try and find some good stock to make the pins out of, even if I have to have some made at my local machine shop...

Ill let everyone know how it turns out.

 

[SScott]

I am going to try and find some good stock to make the pins out of, even if I have to have some made at my local machine shop...

Ill let everyone know how it turns out.

How about using only one roll pin, from the sound of your post there is more than one involved and trying to get two pins to be tight at the same time might be too challenging.
My Trg 22 has a steel pic rail held on by three screws and one pin. I have never had a problem with it nor do I believe that recoil can shear the pin and screws. It is more likely that the scope will slide in the mounts first.
Scott

 

[CoryT]

jbell, I did not think it was a complaint, I just thought I'd clarify the issue a little for the people reading the thread.

I would not be in a hurry to make up press fit pins. There is a little slop in there because things may not be perfectly centered. First, try the fit with the pins at the correct length. You may well find they bind a bit with everything in place. Once the length is set and everything fits up, just use a little of your favorite bedding compound or some green Loctite sleeve retainer to fix the base in place.

 

[jbell]

I could bed them in place with Marine Tex or Loctite with no problem and that is a good idea. However I think I will make some up I like making things perfect. I think I am going to shoot for 0.020" - 0.025" under sized for length and 0.001" for the diameter. I don't have my pin gages here at the house but measuring with my calipers the pins are 0.004" - 0.005" under size in the OD. I am hoping I have a drill at work that is the correct OD that I can cut up, I think that will work nicely...

Thanks for all the input everyone.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I could bed them in place with Marine Tex or Loctite with no problem and that is a good idea. However I think I will make some up I like making things perfect. I think I am going to shoot for 0.020" - 0.025" under sized for length and 0.001" for the diameter. I don't have my pin gages here at the house but measuring with my calipers the pins are 0.004" - 0.005" under size in the OD. I am hoping I have a drill at work that is the correct OD that I can cut up, I think that will work nicely...

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Hey JBell... if you need a couple of pins turned up, let me know. I'll make them gladly. I have a strange feeling I owe you a favor anyway. Not sure why, but one of those odd feelings! I put a Monarch 10EE lathe in the toy-making shop earlier this year. It runs to tenths... a couple of pins is no problem. Let me know.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[jbell]

Sirhr,

Wow, thank you very much! I appreciate the very kind offer. I may give you a shout but at the least Ill let you know how it turns out. How is your Indian running you came to Maine to get?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Jbell:

Funny you should ask about the Chief... because I just sent the sheetmetal off after I prepped it for paint. It's going to be Dark Indian Red. New motor (with original cases) is coming along well and I sent the cylinders for boring in Friday. Wheels have been a nightmare. I suck at wheel-stringing... but now at Buchanen's being rebuilt. I gave up, which is not like me. But there you go. Going to be spring before it's done (next spring)... but she'll be a gem.

Here's a picture as I picked it up:

Let me know about the pins. I can whip a couple up for you no problem and am off duty through Friday. Sorry for the Indian MC Thread Hijack. I can rest my TRG on it if you like...

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[jbell]

Very nice bike, shoot me a pic or two when you finish it! I made the pins today and they came out good:

I measured the holes at work and found that 0.203" was a very precise fit (it just scraped the coating off the holes). I had to rotate the pins as I put them in the monolithic pic rail and the holes in the receiver interface were like 0.202"ish hard to measure small holes like that but basically 0.203" had to be tapped in. So I cut off the shank of 2 13/64 drills and tapped them into the receiver interface mount. I then measured the depth of the holes in the pic rail and found them to be 0.135" deep. I filed the pins down to 0.130" and everything fit like a glove. I had to be very careful installing the pic rail or it would bind, but I verified it would go on and off by hand (very tight). I am now happy with how this turned out. It took a little work but well worth it. This chassis took the TRG to a whole new level of BAD ASS!

Here are the pics of the pins:

Filing to fit:


ready to assemble:


assembled and properly fit:




So if I can do it anyone can. I hope this will help those who may do this to their TRG. I am not going to post a pic of the whole finished rifle as it is not mine and I don't want to steel Bob's thunder. I am sure he will post his thoughts on the rifle after he gets some time behind it. As for me I am very impressed with this chassis!

 

[Gray]

Well played Jbell, looks good and I'm sure it is going to perform as one would expect with that much attention to detail.

 

[bm11]

Great job, can't wait to get this in my hands!

 

[Randoman5]

I don't think it's a big deal that the chassis doesn't fit. It's not like it costs as much as an AICS and XLR chassis combined or anything like that.

 

[jbell]

True the chassis didn't fit in a few areas. However after that was corrected the actual bedding machining seem to be spot on (as far as I could tell with out shooting). I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression, this is a VERY high quality chassis...