I have a question for all the clone heads out there. I'll use the M40A1-5 series as an example. So after all the fun of hunting parts is complete , you have everything. Even the paint on the take off barrel matches the paint on your stock, bottom metal and scope mounts. HOWEVER, your barrel has a considerable amount of throat erosion. What do you do, buy a new barrel or use the take off?
- Thread starter Toftwo
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My observation is that guys lucky enough to find an M40 barrel dated 1966-1969 will use them on a clone, even if its worn and provides 3+ MOA performance. These barrels have unique little Remington proof marks and a date code, so historical accuracy is often sought. Not many good M40 barrels exist.
Beginning in 1977, however, all of the subsequent M40A1-A5 barrels were basically unmarked commercial barrel blanks (Hart, HS Precision, Schneider, etc) that the USMC machined and fitted to the receiver. So most clones go with a new commercial barrel and simply have the "RTE-P" or "PWS-P" stamped onto them. Good performance and barrel life is usually sought, and I would think most take-off M40A1-A5 barrels were likely shot-out, or close to shot-out. On the other hand, Schneider barrels on an M40A5 have a very good reputation for lasting a long, long time, up to 10k rds according to Gary Schneider.
It would be a hard decision though if you had the original barrel that matched the paint on the stock. I'd be tempted to build it that way, knowing that accuracy or barrel life might be less than idea. If performance is poor, you can always replace it with a new barrel. If performance is good with the used barrel, then shot it until accuracy drops off , and then replace it. Good luck whatever you do.
Beginning in 1977, however, all of the subsequent M40A1-A5 barrels were basically unmarked commercial barrel blanks (Hart, HS Precision, Schneider, etc) that the USMC machined and fitted to the receiver. So most clones go with a new commercial barrel and simply have the "RTE-P" or "PWS-P" stamped onto them. Good performance and barrel life is usually sought, and I would think most take-off M40A1-A5 barrels were likely shot-out, or close to shot-out. On the other hand, Schneider barrels on an M40A5 have a very good reputation for lasting a long, long time, up to 10k rds according to Gary Schneider.
It would be a hard decision though if you had the original barrel that matched the paint on the stock. I'd be tempted to build it that way, knowing that accuracy or barrel life might be less than idea. If performance is poor, you can always replace it with a new barrel. If performance is good with the used barrel, then shot it until accuracy drops off , and then replace it. Good luck whatever you do.
The M40 is a poor example because all genuine parts are very limited. As far as the rest, the parts are there if you know where to look. Some people are fanboys and want the super detailed replica at the price of accuracy. The good thing about 308 winchester is there is a lot of barrel life with that caliber (usually regardless of barrel). This allows for better odds in having a decent shooting rifle from a hodge podge of parts. Honestly most "shooters" unless trained wouldn't know the difference between a good shooting rifle and a poor one. I reference how everyone thinks their rifle is sub-moa. I have cloned all m40 rifles with the exception of the A6 and that is in process. Most of mine have been A1's. I prefer to use new blanks and have them stamped accordingly. However I do have a demilled retirement rifle that has a legit barrel. If I was ever to reactivate it with a new receiver I would use the barrel for authenticity. However, I have other solid shooting rifles so I don't feel too much pressure to do it.
To the fanboy collectors that have to throw money for the parts, the worn out barrel will be worth more. To guys that have access to parts, they will look at the erosion and headspace and toss it in the trash. Clone rifles are the modern day baseball cards. The same rules apply.
To the fanboy collectors that have to throw money for the parts, the worn out barrel will be worth more. To guys that have access to parts, they will look at the erosion and headspace and toss it in the trash. Clone rifles are the modern day baseball cards. The same rules apply.
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Thanks for the reply! I agree on the original M700/M40 barrels, I think RTE/PWS cut most of them up, so if you happen to get your hands on one, you use it. That's why I mentioned the A1-A5; new ones are available, but if you have the original one to all the parts, do you sacrifice performance for originality?
Those Schneider's do seem to last forever. What was the rebuild round count, 15K or something in that ball park? I know the A1's we shot at the "Vintage Precision Rifle Match" at Quantico have a pretty high round count and they still hold their own. I think the next match is in October, if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to see if the guys will include the FBI guns so Skunk and J-Husky can bring out their Model 70's!
Again totally agree on the M700/M40, those are very difficult to find legit parts for. They are out there, but they'll cost you, lol. And you're right, a shot out barrel will probably out shoot me. The A3 and A5 I had built, I was totally happy with putting new Schneider tubes on. I think Gary really only does a run if the Corp orders some, so really they are contract over-run barrels. The barrels you buy from him are probably from the same run of barrels sent to PWS, well at least they were, are they using Schneider's on the A6? Oh very nice collection!
That match is pretty informal so I doubt anyone would say anything about an FBI 30 cal on the line. I have ordered barrels from Gary and he will fill whatever order you need. The A1-A5 took 12 twist and the A6 takes a 10 twist barrel. A barrel blank that you order from Schneider is no different than the ones he sends to PWS. Hell you can pull out a sharpie and write USMC 1-12 on it if it makes you feel better!
Get a new barrel to shoot if it's your only rifle to shoot. Have fun and fingers crossed that match happens.
Get a new barrel to shoot if it's your only rifle to shoot. Have fun and fingers crossed that match happens.
If i wanted performance id keep the take off barrel in the safe until i was done shooting the rifle "for accuracy" wi TB h a new barrel and just spin it on when i was wanting to make it a safe queen later in life.
I would give it a shot. The odds are not likely that it will time up in the same place though. This means the stamping will most likely be in an odd position. This is due to the likely hood of the thickness of the recoil lug, trunnion and truing of the receiver to be the same deminsions as the original are very low. Also just so you know, the barrel has collector value but the PWS barrels themselves aren't special. They can be openly purchased from Schneider. The stamping isn't unique and can be acquired at any custom stamp manufacturer. There is plenty of open information on the crown dimensions. The only difficult piece to recreating the rifles is getting it black oxide dipped.
Again it probably has life left in it. They are cool pieces of history that you have. But they are valuable only to the collectors. Because they are easily duplicated to me they have less value as say the A1 Unertl mounts or Mcmillan stocks which had unique patterns that cannot be duplicated today. You could probably sell one barrel for enough to purchase two new blanks. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Again it probably has life left in it. They are cool pieces of history that you have. But they are valuable only to the collectors. Because they are easily duplicated to me they have less value as say the A1 Unertl mounts or Mcmillan stocks which had unique patterns that cannot be duplicated today. You could probably sell one barrel for enough to purchase two new blanks. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Your getting me wanting to try and clone a rifle again.... Stupid question though, why was the m40a1 de-milled? Does anyone reproduce the escutcheon to fit the model 70 floorplate on a rifle?
At one time twomanattack was making them. Idk if he still does
It's my understanding that years ago this was done for important retirees etc, an example is Kelly Mcmillan demilled rifle.
