Trouble with electronic scales

[Charlie Papa]

When I'm using either of my two electronic scales, one of which is a nice Pact, the other cheap MTM portable, I turn them on, calibrate them, weigh a few things to get them warmed up, check the check weight, recalibrate if necessary, then go about weighing cases or whatever I'm sorting. Then I'll go back, weigh some of the stuff I already weighed, and they'll be different than what they were originally. I'm very careful not to bump the scale, vibrate the bench, do anything to disturb it. I recalibrate if I do bump it, and I still get variation.

I've gone back to using my beam scale for powder charges, simply do not trust my electronic ones any more. Does anyone else have these problems?

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I used to repair/calibrate precision electronic instuments in the missle program at Cape Kennedy. There are no digital scales on my bench and there won't be any unless someone gives me one.

 

[aquinas]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to repair/calibrate precision electronic instuments in the missle program at Cape Kennedy. There are no digital scales on my bench and there won't be any unless someone gives me one. </div></div>

Even a Denver Precision or a Sartorius?

All the rest suck, especially Pact and MTM. Nothing personal to the poster.

 

[308Shooter1911]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I have a pact and an MTM...MTM is only good as a Paper weight, and Pacts take 30min to warm up(I leave mine on 24/7 so it's ready to go whenever I am). Electronic scales are very sensitive to temp, humidity draft, etc. So whenever I am weighing charges I turn the air conditioner off, close the reloading room door and breath lightly, LOL.

 

[Hummer]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

also you don't want your cell phone or anything else that will transmit radio signals anywhere near your electronic scales.

 

[rg1]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

My Pact Precision bought shortly after they 1st came on the market for reloaders is still accurate and stays that way for long reloading sessions. I let it warm up 30 min. to an hour, zero it, use 5-100 grain calibration weights just to make sure it's correct. Sometimes in a session it can blink for re-zero and I recheck with calibration weights. I trust it completely but still verify with Lyman check weights. I used to calibrate it for every session but learned from another user that he hadn't calibrated his in a long time. I haven't calibrated my Pact Precision in a year or so and it is accurate without the need for calibration. Always use precision check weights to verify the accuracy of your electronic scale. You have to have a constant voltage and a circuit that doesn't have other appliances plugged into it, no electrical interference from florescent lights or cell phones etc., constant temperature, no vibration, no air currents, but I haven't had any problems except for temperature changes and have had to quit weighing during thunderstorms. Haven't used any battery powered scales myself. Still using the 1990's Pact Precision and the RCBS balance beam stored in a drawer should the power ever go off for extended times.

 

[RTO]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Fluorescent lights can also have an effect on electronic scales as well. I have never trusted them either. They tend to be slow also. I know some people let it weigh out while they are seating but I still use my old beam scale and just weigh out all of them and then go to seating. Seems much faster for me and I trust my results.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

"Even a Denver Precision or a Sartorius?"

I have no hands-on experience with either of those. But I have lots of hands-on with electronics and am certain that those flaky magic electrical components have no idea of the brand of anything. So, there ain't no digital anythings on my bench?

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Wipe down your scales with a cloth or paper towel moistened with Windex. Don't know why, but it helps prevent static charge from building up.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I have a Lyman 1500XP that wanders over the course of a reloading session. I resolved myself to using my Redding beam scale for powder charges, and just use the digital for weighing things of unknown value, like recovered bullets.

All the reading I've done online says that they all do this. I leave mine plugged in and turned on 24 hours a day, and if I zero it it'll wander around based on barometric pressure, so the A/C while I'm reloading may mess with. Easy enough, I don't use it for anything important.

 

[damoncali]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Lots of folks seem to have these problems, but I'm not one of them. I have a 10+ year old Dillon scale that works perfectly. Check weights are always spot on.

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

That's cool. I'll have to look around for something that has a better track record. The Pact goes with a powder dispenser that are going to be sold, and I've never tried leaving it on or even letting it warm up for a half hour. The MTM is going back for a refund. I feel lame at the range with my old 5-0-5, but oh well. It works perfectly.

Any other digital scales that you've found work reliably?

 

[Notso]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

My RCBS chargemaster 1500 is usually spot on. At MOST, it wanders about .1gr. Occasionally I'll recalibrate halfway through a load session but not always. I'm very happy with it and the results downrange are more than adequate for what I do. MAYBE if I were a championship level 1000 yd BR shooter, I'd want something more precise, but I'd bet 99% of us would never see the difference in actual results between using a decent electronic scale vs a beam scale.

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I totally agree with that when weighing powder. I'm planning to give up on weighing powder altogether once I get the powder measure dialed in. My problem is when I'm sorting cases or bullets, and I go back to one of the batches, re-weigh a few, and get .5 - 1.0 grain difference. I could live with .1 - .2, but a full grain? A beam scale is awfully slow for sorting.

I think more than anything, I want this to be an exact science, and it's discouraging when I can't keep my tolerances where I think they should be. I'm hoping that with enough experience, I'll learn what things can be allowed more slop, where that much precision makes no difference.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I have an Acculab vic 123 and has been doing very well. Faster and more accurate than my beam scale.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

How much are you selling your PACT for? I've been thinkng of adding a second to see if I can run two dispensers at a time. How different do you get, .1 grain or 2 or 3 grains?

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I was testing Reloader 17 in 6.5x47 and using a digital scale before doing much research and therefore trusting the scale. All other components were the best quality money could buy and the weather was hot (notice I'm in Louisiana). Forty-five hundred dollars in scope and rifle.

After some days of denial about the scale I admitted to myself the dismal test performance was due to the scale I had used to weigh the powder. I will not do that again.

When possible, I use xbr and 748. Once I'm getting consistent throws verified on an old redding beam scale that isn't dampened, I haul ass metering and go have fun at the range.

Should I find a loose bullet and I know its either a 168 or a 175 I use the piece of junk electronic scale to discern which it is.

Other than that, my electronic scale has a place: put away, or between the head of a 3# hammer and a concrete floor, and because I can look at those two bullets and tell the difference, I'm leaning hard towards the latter.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

What scales are you guys using???

My acculab measures to .02gr and I get excelllent results from it. Granted it's pretty pricey at around 260.00 last time I checked but it's been very accurate and consistent for me. It takes way less time for me to measure charges on the acculab than using a beam scale.

I have not used the Pact or any other electronic scales. When I was researching the acculab consistently came up as the best buy for my needs. Just my 2cents.

 

[supratt96]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I went through a few different scales sold by the big name shooting supply companies and they were junk. None of these companies actually manufacture their scales. They're just re-branded and highly marked up cheap-shit scales.

I then bought a decent jeweler's scale (Gempro 250) and have been completely satisfied with it. It's dead nuts accurate to .01 grains, compact, reasonably fast and very reliable. Not real expensive either; under $170, online. Also comes with a 30 year manufacturer's warrantee.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I confess. My scale was an el cheapo.

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frogman77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My acculab measures to .02gr</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's dead nuts accurate to .01 grains</div></div>

Sorry to question you, but do you guys mean 0.2 and 0.1gr, or maybe .02 and .01 <span style="font-style: italic">gram</span>? I would love to have one accurate to another decimal place!

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Disregard--I'm looking at the specs now. Accurate to .001gram, so I guess that would be .01 or .02 grain...

I might have to try one.

 

[jeepguy242]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

i just sent one back to midway for a refund, it was a pact that hadnt workded right since i got it, called pact and they were dicks!!! said it would cost me 14.95 to look at a scale that was less than 30 days old, midway has a return policy that kicks ass, 90 days!!!! so they took it back no questions asked, and even refunded me shipping...

i will never own another digital scale after that.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

The Acculab vic 123 is accurate to .02 grains. I think they have higher end models that measure to even less than that, but I think that would be a little overkill.

A single kernel of h4350 will change the reading .02 grains. So unless you need to measure less than single kernel accuracy you probably don't need more than that.

A few tips: I keep my scale on all the time so I don't have to let it warm up.
Keep it away from drafts. It's very very sensitive.
You can change the stablitity rating so it doesn't get affected by the environmentals as much but it will be a little slower in getting the final readout.

Scale comes with a level. Keep it level. I mark out exactly where my scale sits on my bench and keep it there.

I cover it when not in use.

http://www.affordablescales.com/scales_specs.asp?specs=678&Acculab_VIC-123

235.00 plus shipping

 

[turbo54]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I have an AWS I got on ebay for $20 or so shipped. It reads to, and REPEATS to .02gr (not a typo). Its been fantastic, provided you let it warm up for at least 30 minutes before use. If you don't, you can expect a .2(ish) grain swing.

My gold-standard load for my Savage 308 is 42.5gr Varget. I cut and sanded on a coin until my scale indicated it was 42.50gr. I use this test dead weight prior to weighing charges.

My family is in the force-transducer business, so I am quite familiar with their design, construction, and use. There really isn't much magic or voodoo to it, and there is nothing to be afraid of. My experience DOES, however, support the concept that you'll get some that hold zero better, and are more accurate.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

must i post the picture ...yet again?

 

[Unsichtbar]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

You must, you must

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I have a Pact- I don't know where it is nor do I plan to look for it.

I don't care for the discombobulation associated with electronic scales and powder measures. A gunshop in Cookeville, TN once had a Lyman(this was about 15 years ago). One of the guys that worked there had the patience of Job. He fiddled and dinked with it until he got it where you could be fairly certain of an accurate measure with one kind of powder. He said it would not feed certain kinds of powder and I disrecall if the ball or extruded was the nasty stuff.

Anyway, after a couple of years of languishing on the front counter, an unsuspecting victim came in and bought it. It was funny because the owner and other employee did not dare take a breath until the purchaser's money was in the till.

That incident and other stories keep me from buying one. Some may work fine, but I enjoy loading the way I have been since I started. Aggravation and pleasure are inversely related.

david

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unsichtbar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You must, you must </div></div>

 

[turbo54]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Ok, now you must explain what that is...

 

[damoncali]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

It's a cage for a hand-loading leprechaun.

Or a semi-magical automated powder measurement contraption. I forget which.

 

[magyarbetyar]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went through a few different scales sold by the big name shooting supply companies and they were junk. None of these companies actually manufacture their scales. They're just re-branded and highly marked up cheap-shit scales.

I then bought a decent jeweler's scale (Gempro 250) and have been completely satisfied with it. It's dead nuts accurate to .01 grains, compact, reasonably fast and very reliable. Not real expensive either; under $170, online. Also comes with a 30 year manufacturer's warrantee. </div></div>

+1 I just recently purchased one to dial in my Dillon powder charge and sort bullets and I am 100% happy with it. I was getting frustrated with how slow a beam scale is.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Yeah I have issues with my Pact as well. It starts doing weird things after about a hour of reloading. Very, very annoying

 

[normbal]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went through a few different scales sold by the big name shooting supply companies and they were junk. None of these companies actually manufacture their scales. They're just re-branded and highly marked up cheap-shit scales.

I then bought a decent jeweler's scale (Gempro 250) and have been completely satisfied with it. It's dead nuts accurate to .01 grains, compact, reasonably fast and very reliable. Not real expensive either; under $170, online. Also comes with a 30 year manufacturer's warrantee.</div></div>

Available at Amazon.com. Around $165.

Been having some doubts about my 13 year-old pact BBK but every time I compare weights on IT against my RCBS balance beam scale, they match up by 0.1 grain. But from time to time I'll get a charge that I KNOW is off by at least a half grain and THAT one, when thrown on my balance beam scale, IS off. It's often enough that it's annoying and I wonder if that's where so many of the high ES and SD values are coming in. Temperature, battery life are often the issue, as is recalibrating, but DAMN it can get annoying not knowing for sure the scale is right. It was the model before the battery adapter so it goes off after a couple minutes non-use and I don't always recalibrate when it comes back up.

To make things even MORE interesting, I just made up 500 rds of FGMM clone ammo (46 grain Varget, 168 SMKs, F 210M primers, Federal brass) and I said the hell with it and did every load on my Dillon XL 650 press and by using the VOLUME bar, loads were +/- 0.1 grain when I'd throw them on the BBK or RCBS scale. I figure the loads are done this way at the factory anyway, so why NOT use volume?

But that jeweler's scale should be here in a few days' time and I can use it for the regular 50-round blocks for everything else and chuck the BBK and all the anxiety.

Anyway, thanks for the lead.

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

You'll have to let us know how the Gempro works out for you.

They say that measuring by volume, rather than weight, will yield more consistent results. I hope so, as I just threw a big chunk of change at a good powder measure. I'm learning more and more what an <span style="font-style: italic">inexact</span> science all this is, and it frustrates the hell out of me. The good thing is it's helping me to get out of the man cave trying to tweak another 0.1 MOA out of a load and get behind the rifle and get more real experience. It seems the more I think I know about this stuff, I'll run into a problem that points out just how much I still have to learn.

 

[YAOG]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales


Hmmm,

I've owned and used a 1010 for over 30 years with no problems. BUT they are VERY slow to use accurately and not all that repeatable on the 0.1 grain settings due to the way it is designed. It is also not very easy to see when you hit precisely the desired weight due to the way the pointer and fixed mark on the scale are designed. I use a magnifier to trickle up to weight and it is a SLOW process between the trickling and the waiting for it to settle down. I recently bought a new Hornady electronic dispenser and had some inital issues with it working very well and then going over weight. The problem is that clumps fall out of the dispenser after the motor stops and the scale then indicates a over weight load.

I figured that I needed to find a way to keep the granuals from falling out of the tube and observed that static could finally be used for good! So I tried cutting a piece of plastic drinking straw and pushed it up into the dispenser tube and it worked! I can now set the dispenser speed to the fastest rate and it never goes over weight anymore. I scaled 100 dispensed loads and none of them were off more than the width of the 1010 scale's white indicator lines which is less than 0.1 of a grain.

The electronic dispenser reliably dispenses more than two loads per minute now which keeps up with the Dillon RL550B used as a multi-station press one case at a time.

HTH!

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">must i post the picture ...yet again? </div></div>
What the hell is that thing? The prototype of this?

 

[normbal]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

The Gempro 250 is the shit. I LOVE this thing.

I just spent about an hour familiarizing myself with it, how to calibrate and set it, weighing out bullets comparing with my PACT scale. The PACT is dead. I found out it's generally off by at least 2 grains and the MOST annoying thing is I'm never quite sure when it's done registering. It'll show 168.2 for a second, then 168.3 for another two seconds, then 168.4 grains. On the Gempro it'll show 168.25 immediately and stay that way for minutes. So I weighed out 25 pistol loads of unique powder for 357 SIG at 7.2 grains and threw 7.20, 7.20, 7.20, 7.25, 7.15, 7.20 (using a Lee scoop and then hand tricking powder into the pan) and was done in ten minutes.


Unit is accurate, FAST, steady, and I should have bought one years ago.

I was considering a dillon or an RCBS scale when I found this thread. I hope I can save someone some hassle and headaches by directing them to one of these.

Bought through Amazon.com, delivered priority mail from Old Will Knott Scales.

Now what to do with the PACT BBK...

 

[Vipa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I have an RCBS Chargemaster 1500... always spot on weight wise.. sometimes over-throws with extruded powders due to the sticks bunching at the end of the delivery tube but I'm about to attempt the 'McDonalds Straw' upgrade to see if that helps!

Like I said, weight wise it's always spot on when checked with the calibration weights it was supplied with or my check weights .5gr-50gr

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Thanks for the replies, guys. I appreciate the feedback from real users and from people who use it like I do. I wish I had consulted this forum before purchasing what I have now, but will make sure to do so in the future.

 

[Vipa]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Nope... the 'McDonalds Straw' upgrade won't work.... it looks like UK McD straws are of a smaller diameter than the good ol' U S of A ones...

Any kind soul over there fancy throwing a few official American McD straws in the post to me?? Pleeeaaaassse.... See... I'm not too proud to beg!

 

[YAOG]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vipa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an RCBS Chargemaster 1500... always spot on weight wise.. sometimes over-throws with extruded powders due to the sticks bunching at the end of the delivery tube but I'm about to attempt the 'McDonalds Straw' upgrade to see if that helps!

Like I said, weight wise it's always spot on when checked with the calibration weights it was supplied with or my check weights .5gr-50gr </div></div>


I used a common white plastic drinking straw in a paper wrapper. It is pretty well static charged and picks up the extruded powders I use like crazy. This is why I used it I didn't know this was a common trick tick for electronic dispensers. I thought my straw was too small too but I just pushed it up the pipe and it stuck so I just left it there. I do have to pull the straw out when I change powders to clean the tube out because powder gets stuck between the tube and straw.

HTH!

 

[Jason280]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I have a couple of electronic powder measures, one is a Cabela's badged model that I bought over five years ago, and the other is an RCBS. They have always been pretty accurate for me, but I do have a habit of routinely checking them with check weights and against a standard beam scale. Speaking of check weights, I made my own set to correspond with typical charge weights I use in .223/5.56 and .308 loads. I have them set at 24gr, 44gr, and a few other random weights to use when I am doing load development. With these, I can simply drop them on the scale from time to time to see if the scale is still accurate.

I had a Lyman 1500 DPS3, and it was a nightmare. I tried all the tricks I could find on the internet, and nothing would keep the zero from wandering. I eventually had to return it to Lyman, who repaired whatever was wrong. It seemed to be more accurate, but I'd lost any trust I had in the machine and ultimately sold it.

 

[WARDOG]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

I just had an incident with an electronic scale that now has me gun-shy about electronics. Worst of all I discovered it a few days before driving 180 miles to shoot 1/2 mile with my newest Surgeon Scalpel for one of my annual trips.
I have been using a RCBS Range Pro (Made by PACT).
I have been fireforming brass with Varget, and then loading RL-25.
I noticed that when foreforming my necked down .300 Norma cases to 7mm, that they did not appear to fully form to the chamber (the shoulders were not sharp. I assumed that they would fully form on the second firing. I loaded a ladder 63 to 67 gr by .5 steps. 2 rounds per step.
I set up my chrony to measure velocities of the ladder loads before shooting to find the node.
The weather was a little crazy, cloudy, sunshine, cloudy, light rain, sunny again. I got a few errors on my chrony probably due tot he inconsistent sunlight. My chrony was then reading 2220 fps, +/- up to 50 fps. I cussed that chrony up and down about nor being user friendly etc. I tried everything to get it to read what I thought it should. After about 6 rounds fired I gave up on finding the node and just getting an accurate reading.
The cases were still not forming a sharp shoulder with what I thought was 65 gr. of RL 25.
I got home and checked my electronic scale. When I switched to grams to use the check weights everything checked good and calibrated. When I switched to grains it looked good, tared zero with the pan. However when I measured out 66 grains of RL25 and checked it with my clunky old beam scale, the electronic scale was OVER measuring by about 15-19 grains.
Luckily it was over weighing, and not UNDER weighing which could have blown up my Surgeon Scalpel.
The electronic scale seems to anticipate what I want to measure when not in calibrate mode. It may have something to do with the pan.
Last winter I reloaded over 1000 rounds of all different cartridges. .45-70, .308, .300 RSAUM and it worked fine.
NOW I am looking to spend some serious money for a quality commercial / jewelers electronic scale, or a high-speed beam scale. I looked at the Sartorius, as I would rather spend the money in a accurate and reliable scale then all of the power measuring /trickling voodoo. I don't mind throwing, measuring, trickling, measuring. I just want a scale that won't blow up a $5000 Surgeon, or take out my eye.
The RCBS is past warranty I am sure, and even if I got it fixed I would never trust it again.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

WARDOG,

If I'm not mistaken, undercharging can be just as dangerous. Apparently pressure builds higher as the bullet is in the barrel longer. There probably needs to be a perfect short load, but I've heard of kabooms this way before and when I vented a factory Federal Fusion 180 rd. in my 300WM, that's the first thing they mentioned... possible short load.

John

 

[YAOG]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales


Has anyone seen this bit of smart design from Target Master that uses your existing beam scale? Watch the video it's pretty slick!

TARGETMASTER AUTO TRICKLER

 

[clos9009]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Has anyone seen this bit of smart design from Target Master that uses your existing beam scale? Watch the video it's pretty slick!

TARGETMASTER AUTO TRICKLER

</div></div>

my bet is there are not many if any in the U.S that have tried it.

 

[2shoot1kill]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

someone here has it

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1857606

 

[ryhag1]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

Drafts from AC/HEATERS/WINDOWS. WIFI routers, cable boxes, etc, etc. Look at what the bench guys do to stabilize there scales.

 

[normbal]

Re: Trouble with electronic scales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charlie Pappa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the replies, guys. I appreciate the feedback from real users and from people who use it like I do. I wish I had consulted this forum before purchasing what I have now, but will make sure to do so in the future.</div></div>

When you're at this for a while, you'll very likely have several of one, at least two of another, one that broke, one you're borrowing from a friend to try out, one you lent someone and wish you had back, and you'll post over on the Post Exchange like the rest of us looking for the one you don't have, yet. I'm not talking about scales in particular, just "gun stuff" in general.