Truing upper not needed?

[deersniper]

Is it not necessary to true the upper receiver face? I have been told this by 2 well known gunsmiths that turn out a fair amount of precision ARs.

One of them also told me the uppers like the Larue or Seekins that support the handguard separately are not needed either ?

 

[_Windrider_]

I’ve never done any kind of truing on an AR. There really isn’t anything to true. trying the face of the receiver doesn’t accomplish much IMHO but I bet those gunsmiths like charging people for that service.

as for the handguard, are you saying that a free float type of installation isn’t necessary?

 

[deersniper]

No they both said don’t true but they will do it if you want.

No not free float, a HG that removes pressure from the barrel nut. Like these:

 

[_Windrider_]

No they both said don’t true but they will do it if you want.

No not free float, a HG that removes pressure from the barrel nut. Like these:

View attachment 7302770View attachment 7302771

I’m not sure that type of mounting makes a difference. But I’ll tell what it does do, it guarantees you have to buy proprietary parts.

 

[RTH1800]

Truing the face of the upper is so simple I see no reason not to do so. And, a lot of them are not square to start with. Does it help, I have no idea.

 

[want2learn]

A while back i was looking into purchasing one of the truing tools from Brownells and in the course of my brief search i found this thread from a few years back:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/how-critical-is-trueing-a-ar15-upper-receiver.241550/

 

[_Windrider_]

Yep. I’ve said it about 3 times in a few threads in as many days. Buy quality parts and you don’t have to worry about this stuff. We true rem 700’s because they are garbage from the factory. You don’t true a defiance or a big horn or surgeon or an AI because their tolerances are so good.

 

[natdscott]

And yet. Regular forged A4 uppers you could buy in the local box store... well, they can shoot 1/4 minute too!

 

[Lunchbox27]

I’ve never trued any of the AR’s I have built. Spikes and Aero is what I have used. Never had a problem, don’t see a need. I also go into it knowing it’s not going to be a 1 hole gun.

I think money spent on a quality, reputable barrel with matched/head spaced bolt & trigger is where it is at.

 

[natdscott]

money spent on a quality, reputable barrel with matched/head spaced bolt & trigger is where it is at.

Fixed it!

 

[_Windrider_]

I’ve never trued any of the AR’s I have built. Spikes and Aero is what I have used. Never had a problem, don’t see a need. I also go into it knowing it’s not going to be a 1 hole gun.

I think money spent on a quality, reputable barrel with matched/head spaced bolt & trigger is where it is at.

Yes. And the correct torque on the barrel nut.

 

[bfoosh006]

You don't have to true receiver faces... But, I have had precision improvements from all the AR's I have done it to.

The choice is yours. Clearly all sorts of AR's shoot great groups without it being done.

That said....I have seen consistent precision improvements , on my Large Frame's and AR15's to merit the added effort.

Lots of people say buy quality parts and you don't need to... every upper I have lapped showed an uneven face... ironically the one that showed the least amount of unevenness was a PSA AR15 upper. ( Not sayin' the PSA's are perfect )
BCM, Rainer Arms, SOLGW, SanTan , and more all had high spots the lapping tools help level... can explain why the CNC machines variances.. no but I have chalked it up to un even Anodizing thickness... can I prove it ? ....Nope....

IMHO, the lapping won't hurt anything , provided you use a well fitting quality made lapping tool.

Here is an example of my results with a OEM PSA / DC Machine barreled 6.5CM... ymmv, and this is what I based my decisions about lapping on.

My Criterion barrels and FN Barrels all showed even better , more consistent improvements with factory ammo.

Can I "prove" the lapping was "the" specific improvement ? Nah... but it sure seemed to consistently help with better precision.
Every upper I have done it too.. has had improved precision. Was my testing "Scientific"... nope.. it was just seat of the pants.

Ultimately , to each his own... so do as you want.

It is so easy to do, I can't help but do it to all my uppers... I have yet to see any noticeable degradation in precision from any lapping and Loctiting ( True and Glue , TnG )
Does anyone need to do it ? Nah... but for me , why not ?

https://www.ar15.com/forums/industr...-again-UPDATED-with-Tn-G-results-/301-285762/

 

[thehun]

I never heard of trueing an AR receiver...just buy quality parts...

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I would say no, it's not neccesary. But I will do it just to see how uneven the face is. Some are more than others. Sometimes it's just an uneven cerekote or finish.

No idea if it actually makes a difference, it's more of an OCD thing.

 

[srt-4_uk]

I never heard of trueing an AR receiver...just buy quality parts...

You dont have to do a tracking test on a scope. Just buy a quality scope.

 

[thehun]

You are trying to compare apples to oranges with that statement...

An AR receiver does not have intricate parts like an optic.

An AR receiver is either a forging or billet machined that are CNC machined...it has no tiny screws, springs or detents...or sliding moving parts...or glass...or retainer rings that need to be properly torqued...

 

[natdscott]

You dont have to do a tracking test on a scope. Just buy a quality scope.

Not entirely true. There’s a reason why BR guys have often installed screws in their scope tubes.

 

[srt-4_uk]

You are trying to compare apples to oranges with that statement...

An AR receiver does not have intricate parts like an optic.

An AR receiver is either a forging or billet machined that are CNC machined...it has no tiny screws, springs or detents...or sliding moving parts...or glass...or retainer rings that need to be properly torqued...

The only upper I've ever had a problem with was a VLTOR MUR. Quality CNC machined part. Didnt fit in any lower I had. Their customer service was outstanding, acknowledged that it was out of spec, sent a new one right away. I've since bought more of them.
Point is, just because it's expensive and quality, doesnt mean it's perfect.

 

[natdscott]

Point is, just because it's expensive and quality, doesnt mean it's perfect.

You appear to have successfully argued against your own analogy.

 

[rjacobs]

tight barrel extension to upper receiver is more important IMO than truing the receiver face.

On precision builds I always use a very thin coating of loctite 620 green on the outside of the barrel extension before I put them into the upper.

 

[thehun]

The only upper I've ever had a problem with was a VLTOR MUR. Quality CNC machined part. Didnt fit in any lower I had. Their customer service was outstanding, acknowledged that it was out of spec, sent a new one right away. I've since bought more of them.
Point is, just because it's expensive and quality, doesnt mean it's perfect.

Sure...but that has nothing to do with "trueing" an AR upper...you will find out whether the parts fit or not during the assembly of the rifle if you are piecing together a build...on an optic...you won't...not until you fire it (unless it is an obvious error like lose parts inside or other evident QC issues to the eye)...

Pricing really in modern times is a secondary to judge quality (yes, it is expected to be quality if it costs $$$$)...but in the end its about quality over how much you have paid for an item...I've had better luck with Primary Arms Prisms as of late than Trijicon ACOGs in the QC department...

 

[srt-4_uk]

You appear to have successfully argued against your own analogy.

Read context instead of words. It will make more sense to you.

Sure...but that has nothing to do with "trueing" an AR upper...you will find out whether the parts fit or not during the assembly of the rifle if you are piecing together a build...on an optic...you won't...not until you fire it (unless it is an obvious error like lose parts inside or other evident QC issues to the eye)...

Pricing really in modern times is a secondary to judge quality (yes, it is expected to be quality if it costs $$$$)...but in the end its about quality over how much you have paid for an item...I've had better luck with Primary Arms Prisms as of late than Trijicon ACOGs in the QC department...

My specific example is there only to say that not all quality parts are perfect. I do agree that price is not a direct reflection of quality. I also dont think that the half thou that gets removed to true the receiver would have cause groups to go to shit. But I also dont think taking the 2 minutes to remove it hurts anything.

 

[natdscott]

Read context instead of words.

Nah, what you said made perfect sense. I’m pretty accomplished at the reading comprehension thing. Passive aggression, however, is not a box I check.

You’re just wrong, and it wasn’t a good analogy. Even the highest quality scopes get track-tested by those serious about precision, ....and some don’t pass.

AR receivers, meanwhile, appear to be able to put up with a fair amount of slop and imperfect dimensions. Regardless of the market’s opinion of the “quality”, random assemblages of parts of differing brands and price points—assembled in some dudebro’s man garage—still manage to shoot at a level of precision equal to the highest tier full-custom builds.

Credit, when due, goes to good barrels and a great design.

 

[whatsupdoc]

My .002, While the benefits of truing the face of a standard AR upper can be debated, doing it will not hurt anything.
I personally would not bother, but I will say this the heavier billet uppers that use a proprietary barrel nut and handguard that bolts directly to the upper do seem to shoot more consistent than a typical forged upper. Especially cold bore.

 

[thehun]

My .002, While the benefits of truing the face of a standard AR upper can be debated, doing it will not hurt anything.
I personally would not bother, but I will say this the heavier billet uppers that use a proprietary barrel nut and handguard that bolts directly to the upper do seem to shoot more consistent than a typical forged upper. Especially cold bore.

Truth. Why I like the POF design.