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Suppressors Trusts vs Individual Transfers

C

COLOSHOOTR

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 8, 2010
83
1
41
Colorado
#1
Hey fellas! I've been browsing on here for a long time now and just now have needed to post because you guys have covered almost anything I've wanted to know before I've even thought about the questions. Thanks in advance for your replies.

I've done a ton of research on here and various other sites on trusts and individual NFA transfers. I'm leaning towards a individual route since I can get CLEO sign off without a problem but I do like the ease of the trust. I just don't want to give an attorney $750 to draw up a NFA trust and I'm not convinced home made or generic trusts are good ideas.

I'm just curious to see how everyone else is doing it and would like to hear what you guys have done and why.
 
#2
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

$750 is not typical. Trust is by far best way to go and most flexible. Trust must be designed around nfa items so the trust does not instruct a trustee to take an action that would violate state or federal laws. Helps avoid the unlikely prosecution for constructive posession by unauthorized persons. Multiple users and flexibility to make changes over time are just a few reasons why the trust is preferable. Well worth the modest expense. No photo no finger prints no fooling with leo. Its not even arguable.
 
#3
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

The local gun shop where I bought my SBR/can did my NFA trust for me. All I needed to do was notorize, sign, trustee sign, and send in. EASY!!!
 
#4
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

Home-made trust here. Got a copy of a generic trust from Maryland Shooter on AR15.com, adapted it to my specifics and had a local attorney look it over to make sure it was valid for my state. No problems with it so far. Cost me nothing.
 
#6
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

a trust is the way to go especially if you have kids, a brother or any other person who would use the can. because if something happens to you and you have it set up as an individual the ATF can come take that can, but if its in a trust it is still the property of the other members of the trust. At least that is the way that I understand it.
 
#7
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

Trust supposed to have shorter wait time to clear NFA. Not sure on this. My most recent Individual Form 4 went pending July 7 and approved Oct 17. As to passing on items, it is perfectly legal to will an individual stamped item to descendants as my brother did with several full autos. No problem. Don't really see an advantage to Trust unless your CLEO is a dick and will not sign off. IMHO.
 
#8
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeRe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't really see an advantage to Trust unless your CLEO is a dick and will not sign off. IMHO.</div></div>

The advantages are clear. No LEO signoff, no fingerprint card, no photo, and multiple people can be members of the trust.

The only disadvantage I can think of is that theoretically you need to carry a copy of the trust with you. It's the only way to prove that you are an authorized member of the trust.

One of these days I am going to make waterproof copies of all of my Form4s and the trust paperwork, and stash it in the bottom of my range bag.
 
#9
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

Thanks for all the replies fellas! I did some more looking around and the best deal I found for an attorney made NFA trust around here was $500. Thats way more then I'm willing to pay for someone to just fill in the blanks with my info. So now I decided to go the Willmaker route and finished my trust last night. Already picked out my SAS Ti can and by next weekend I should have everything sent off to the ATF so I can start the long wait...
 
#12
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

Individual - makes it harder for a spiteful wife to screw with the hard to get toys. I don't care what happens to them when I die.
wink.gif
 
#13
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COLOSHOOTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I decided to go the Willmaker route and finished my trust last night.</div></div>Make sure the trust is valid. Make sure that it complies with state law, meaning that it creates a valid trust in your state.
 
#15
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

I read the Colo. trust laws and it looks to be valid to me but I'm not much for this Civil law stuff.... I am going to have it looked over by a family friend to make sure it is 100% valid.

I don't see them suddenly changing the law to make the trust route illegal unless they grandfather in existing items or allow a transfer to you as an individual tax free.... You can't be charged if you acted within the law then they change it on you and do not let you get things in order to be within the law once again. Doing so without letting you fix the proplem means they can not prove you <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">knowingly</span></span> violated the law since you had originally acted within the law. If they can not prove that you knowingly and willingly violated the law the case will be tossed and their winning percentage goes down....
 
#16
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

When I lived in a county where the CLEO would sign-off, I went individual. When I moved to a county where he wouldn't, I formed a trust. I've had 3 items (1MG and 2 silencers) transferred to the trust so far with no problems. I just mailed off a 4th a couple of days ago.
 
#18
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

I went with a short name just in case I ever wanted to make an SRB or Form 1 can.

Garys F.A.T.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IFlyLow1959</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made the mistake of not useing a short name on my trust. Now, my form 1 stuff is two miles long. Live -n- learn !! </div></div>
 
#19
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

You may want to pay a little extra $ to have someone double check your paper work. If it is not done exactly correct the ATF can take your devices and guns once you pass away, or your family will have to re-file form 4's to re aquire the items.

Just a thought.
 
#20
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

I have a trust. Works well for me. Added the wife as secondary so legally allowed to use my Nfa items. Local Cleo had no problems with an individual. Just made more sense paying few hundred bucks for a good trust.
 
#22
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

My dealer gave me the paperwork, and I filled it out. It literally took me 5 minutes. Then i spent another 5 minutes double checking the spelling.

I am, however, going to have an attorney give them a look over to make sure that nothing is missing. For me the cost is about $250. I think its worth the piece of mind considering the risk if somethings done incorrectly.
 
#23
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

I did the trust via Quicken, and then paid a probate atty $100 to make any corrections. It seemed to be a good middle of the road approach to having an atty draft the document for $500.
 
#25
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

If you are in Ohio I do NFA specific trusts for Ohio residents only as I'm only licensed in Ohio as an Attorney. Im an avid shooter and I have done many trusts. Many hide members from Ohio can attest My trusts are valid and NFA has always approved them no problem. Pm me if you are from Ohio and need one done also I don't charge much at all $ 150 as it doesn't take me long to do one.
 
#27
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PadronAniversary</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question for you all, what happens when you establish a trust in say state A, then move to stage B ? How are tax stamp issues resolved under a trust ? </div></div>

I'm also interested in this should MN ever allow suppressors. I can own legally in TX but I'm assuming I'd have to get rid of it should I move back north to MN. I'm guessing as long as the trust is written to comply with any state regulations on trusts and that state allows ownership of those NFA items on the trust you'd be OK. I thought I read plenty of people taking their suppressed rifles to competitions in other states with just a copy of their trust.
 
#28
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: woodspider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are in Ohio I do NFA specific trusts for Ohio residents only as I'm only licensed in Ohio as an Attorney. Im an avid shooter and I have done many trusts. Many hide members from Ohio can attest My trusts are valid and NFA has always approved them no problem. Pm me if you are from Ohio and need one done also I don't charge much at all $ 150 as it doesn't take me long to do one.
</div></div>

If I were in Ohio I'd take you up on that mostly because your honest about the fact it doesn't take you too long so you charge a reasonable price. Every attorney I spoke to that knew anything about shooting and NFA laws wanted $500 or more for what would amount to filling in the blanks on a pre done document.
 
#29
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazlo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did the trust via Quicken, and then paid a probate atty $100 to make any corrections. It seemed to be a good middle of the road approach to having an atty draft the document for $500. </div></div>

I'm curious to know what corrections he made?

I don't understand why everyone needs to go out and pay $xxx to some attorney. If a qualified attorney draws up paperwork for a trust with the purpose of keeping NFA property on the trust, why wouldn't that document be valid for everyone with nothing other than a name change? At the very least it should work within a state, right? I'm not trying to make an argument here, I'm trying to understand why everyone needs different trust paperwork.

Here in WA state the local dealers have sample trusts that you drop your name into. I've compared them from two different dealers and they are both suspiciously and extremely similar.
 
#30
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

My latest transfers were held up almost a year because of nit-picking (I believe the biggest issue was that the county wasn't listed on ever page in a header, or something). My trust was done by an attorney at a reasonable rate, and this was the only issue I've ever had.

COLOSHOOR, $500 is much too high, in my opinion. In our state, we have an advocate that does them for less than $100. It really is a fill in the blank form document.
 
#31
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IFlyLow1959</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I made the mistake of not useing a short name on my trust. Now, my form 1 stuff is two miles long. Live -n- learn !! </div></div>
+1111111111111
 
#32
Re: Trusts vs Individual Transfers

I am in KS and having an attorney draw up my trust. I initially was going to have him "fix"/proof-read the quicken one, but it was missing so much that it was cheaper to just have him use one of his.

He told me that the quicken ones are fine to granting the form 4, but they don't hold up to the scrutiny of a real attorney from the ATF looking at them. to me, its not worth saving the $300 that it cost.
 
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