Rifle Scopes Try a Premier or stick with SB?

[SSG3K]

What are your thought. Yes I shoot matches and I have read all the threads. Looking for opinions from people that have owned both. Please no NF, Hendsolt, Vortex or USO opinions needed. Specifically Gen 2 XR and P4F comparison.

Trying not to be a dick but this is how it usually turns out.

Thanks

Rich

 

[robdes]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

You should go with USO fer sur.....

I have a couple of PRH's and my bro has a SB. They both seem good. I love my scopes, but if I already owned an SB I don't think that I would go to the trouble to sell it and buy a PRH, or vice versa for that matter. However, if you are proposing buying a PRH for a diff gun- I say GO FOR IT! Variety is the spice of life.

 

[zink14]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

Rich I went from a S&B MTC USMC to a Premier 3-16 MTC Gen II Mildot, I liked both, liked the extra magnification on the Premier....but then went back to the S&B 4-16 gen II mildot i missed the MTC a lot more that i thought I would....quite honestly both scope brands were very solid, and glass is almost identical. In the end it would be about the features you want.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

No need to switch. Stick with a S&B.

 

[JRose]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No need to switch. Stick with a S&B. </div></div>

 

[Rob01]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No need to switch. Stick with a S&B. </div></div></div></div>

There you go. Had both and like the P4F much better than the Gen II XR.

You know S&Bs well enough. Stick with them.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No need to switch. Stick with a S&B. </div></div></div></div>
</div></div>

 

[SSG3K]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

The whole point of trying was for the XR reticle only. I knew that I had the right answer from the begining just had to make sure. Thanks guys for all the input.

Rich

 

[dcjs]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

There's pros and cons to both reticles, and since we have some folks here who are always eager to jump in for their favorite brand, let me point out some things regarding the visibility/usability of the Gen2 XR.

There's people who don't like the size of the dots and there's people that see no issue at all and like the reticle for how fine it is. The lines are a little finer in the XR (0.025 vs. 0.035 mrad), this may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what your preferences are, but the XR has a lot more illumination, not just the center cross. So when things go shady and the lines start to disappear, you can switch on the illumination and maintain full usability for up to 2.5 mils of windage and lots and lots of holdover. Also, there's a mark 0.5 mil from center in the XR and the holdover marks are numbered. Although the numbers are small and readable only at high power, you still have the christmas tree dots and crosses that make picking out the right holdover value easy even at lowest power.
Speaking of low power, you get significantly more FOV from the Premier at 5x which makes the lowest power setting a lot more useful.

See this thread here for some shots of the XR at various powers in a "practical" environment. If at all possible, try to get a look at the scopes/reticles in person, that's the only way you'll find out for sure what reticle and scope <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> like better.

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

See this thread here for some shots of the XR at various powers in a "practical" environment. If at all possible, try to get a look at the scopes/reticles in person, that's the only way you'll find out for sure what reticle and scope <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> like better. </div></div>

That's a good read right there, thanks for pointing that out.

I say try the Premier. It's an excellent product, that has made our customers very, very happy.


Scott

 

[Powerstrokediesel]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

Go with S&B.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

From a pure training stand point stick with what you know, no product is perfect, but learning the adapt to the Idiosyncrasy of another product can be a set back.

 

[seven mm]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

I prefer the S&B. I had minor issues with one of my premiers that was fixed with excellent customer service. I also prefer the clicks on a S&B. That being said I also prefer the Gen II xr reticle to the p4f. I tried the p4f for a while but in the end I decided to stay with the Gen II xr. Now all my S&B's are Gen II xr, couldn't be happier.

Get the best of both and buy a S&B with the Gen II XR.

 

[cubewarrior]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

Have had both S&B and Premier XR. Both are great scopes.

I prefer the S&B over the Premier. Optically, I'd give it a very slight advantage to the S&B because the focus ring on the Premier was a little too coarse for my adjustments--could never get it quite right. I liked the parallax markings on the side. And, I liked the 5-25 XR because it enabled me to focus to ~13 yards and allowed me to dry fire down the hall.

Is it worth the extra money and pain of finding XR S&Bs? Probably not.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSG3K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The whole point of trying was for the XR reticle only. I knew that I had the right answer from the begining just had to make sure. Thanks guys for all the input.

Rich </div></div>
Based on the quote above, you may have made your decision. That said, if you haven't, <span style="font-style: italic">David S.</span>, <span style="font-style: italic">seven mm</span>, and <span style="font-style: italic">CubeWarrior</span> all made excellent points which I agree with. Like <span style="font-style: italic">seven mm</span> and <span style="font-style: italic">CubeWarrior</span>, I've owned both Premier and PMIIs' (both 5-25Xs' with the Gen 2 XR reticle). I now own two PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XRs', both of which have been converted to CCW by S & B. I've used, but never owned P4 and P4F-equipped PMIIs'.

If you want a little more in-depth feedback check-out my reply to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">sgj2025</span></span> in <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">sgj2025</span></span>'s <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">"A question for Premier and S&B owners"</span></span> thread and my reply to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Goldie</span></span> in <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Goldie</span></span>'s <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">"Premier or S&B"</span></span> thread. The PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR that I compared against the Premier 5-25X Gen 2 XR had also been converted to CCW by S & B, rotation direction was consistent. Please bear in mind that those are old posts, and some of the info is now out-of-date, e.g., MTC turret retro-fitting is now available on PMIIs', ect.

The Gen 2 XR is still my favorite reticle, especially in a PMII. And of course you know that the Gen 2 XR is no longer an option in new PMIIs' and that said PMIIs' typically command a premium over new PMIIs' because of their rarity. That said, in the past two months I've seen PMII 5-25X 0.1 MIL Gen 2 XR CWs' sell for $3,400.00 shipped, as well as PMII 5-25X 0.1 MIL Gen 2 XR CCWs' sell for $3,000.00 shipped. As many prefer CCW over CW and S & B charges $450.00 to convert the turrets, IMO the Seller of the CCW scope left a lot of money on the table, and I wondered what, if anything - was "wrong" with the scope.


Keith

 

[pharm762]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

I currently own both and like they said there are pros an cons to both. Both though are excellent glass and looking through it looks better than the naked eye.

That being said I like the Premier better and here is why:
- The click values are better spaced than the S&B
- no need for tools to adjust the turrets when zeroing
- no "tube vision" at the lower powers
- fully lit reticle the S&B just has the center crosshair lit on the P4F

Cons:
- no parallax markers (not a big deal)
- wish the illuminator dial was exposed like the S&B or even Leupold

Hope this helps

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Try a Premier or stick with SB?

The new PR does have the parallax marked.

If comparing the P4F to the Gen II XR, I would choose the Gen II XR everytime. To me, I like the numbers on the side and the alternating dot and dashes on the reticle for me to count. With the traditional hash's I would get lost sometimes.

Having said that, I would love to try out the new S&B 5-25x56 with the MSR reticle one day. I like the one I saw at SHOT. I would like to see it and use it on a rifle before I buy.