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trying to decide on an AR

ykrvak

ykrvak

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 11, 2008
484
476
Yukon River Alaska
www.yukonriverlodge.com
I realize opinions are like a--holes and I've done quite a bit of reading in this section trying to educate myself a bit. However, I'm still feeling pretty lost as I have ZERO experience with the AR platform and it's various configurations.

It will be primarily a winter time carry rifle. Generally it will be slung across my back or chest with a TAB cover to help keep the snow out of it. I'm planning on sticking with iron sights as optics can be a PITA in extreme cold. Needs to be as lightweight as possible. I would like to stick with an 18"-20" barrel. I'm not looking for it to be a precision type rig 1"-1.5" at 100 is perfectly acceptable for it's purposes. My biggest concern is going to be reliability. I realize all mechanical items fail. Which manufacturers are making historically more dependable products? One reason for moving to the ar from a bolt is having the increased firepower while still carrying a smaller caliber. I've run across grizz tracks in the winter before and it's pretty sobering when your carrying a three shot .222rem and your a long way from your snomachine. I realize I could carry my .338wm but it's a bit much for wolves and it's a good excuse for getting into an AR.
laugh.gif


I'm sure there is more info that would be helpful for people trying to answer this, so let me know and I'll do my best to answer the questions.

Thanks.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Reliability im going to say LWRC since I have experience with them. I have abused the hell out of that thing and cant seem to get it to fail on me. I know you want 18-20 inches but my 16 would get 2 inch groups all day before I cut it to 10.5.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

POF*USA...all the way or should I say, POF*USA <span style="font-style: italic">all day</span>? If I was given an LWRC, I would sell it and buy a POF. Anyway, that's my .02.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get an ak</div></div>
I have to agree with marduk.
A super ubber reliable auto in tough elements,light weight, mud, water and freezing....... Sounds like an AK platform and they work perfect with their standard iron sights.

*If you had to have an AR, I would pick a POF gas piston but 223 would not be my pick for a possible encounter with a grizzly.

*I would also consider a Saiga 12 gauge auto.
Many people underestimate how accurate a 12 gauge shooting slugs is..... At 100 yards...deadly.
7.62 X 39 or 12 gauge would be my choice but once you said grizzly........Me things 12 gauge slug.
Have fun and be careful
......SmokeRolls
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

What is your budget?

And I would probably reconsider if you have ideas of shooting a grizz. The good expanding ammo probably wouldn't pentrate deep to do damage. And I don't know of any tests of 5.56mm vs. Grizz skull or any other part for that matter.

Now, if is conceivable that you could use an AR chambered for something like .458 SOCOM. Not ideal but at least then there is some mass in the slug.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

ykrvak,


Grizzly? with a .223/5.56? I don't care if the Inuits up there chase big stuff with .222 Rems, I would prefer something with knockdown if I'm to come face to face with the big boys that chase and bite back.

So, if you want a reliable brand name I can say RRA, Oly, Bushmaster LMT, and CMMG. The problem is with the market expanding and deflating back to normal as fast as it did, there is a ton of AR parts out there that are good. Put any combination of rifle parts together and if it works good and shoots good it will continue to do so. I've got del-ton uppers, lowers, Aero Precision, RRA triggers, LMT, Shilen barrels, AA Barrel, Model 1, and JD machine....

And they all work well together. Get your parts or individual upper and lower, put it together and it should shoot well enough to meet your needs.

As to my first paragraph, there are a number of more powerful rounds you can put in the AR-15 platform. Some of it is going to require proprietary parts (like complete upper) such as the Oly WSSM's. There is also a guy here in MN:
http://www.dtechsuperstore.com
who does WSSM uppers including 7 OSSM and 30 Oly SSM. Something to look into.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

I'm not "THAT" concerned with the grizz factor. It's just that I have run across tracks before that weren't nearly old enough to not make me wish I had more rounds to utilize. I'll take 20 or so over 3 any day thanks. I have heavier calibers that I could carry if it were "really" an issue.

I sort of figured there was enough experience with semiauto platforms here on this site without having to go over to the site that will not be named.
smile.gif


Interesting thoughts on the AK. I'll have to consider it. From what I've read I was under the impression that I could expect better accuracy and options from an AR than a AK (in general). I don't want this to turn into a mines better than yours pissing match.

I guess I'm just looking for something rugged, reliable, and capable of shooting minute of wolf out to a couple hundred yards under the right conditions. Perhaps the AK would fit that better than an AR. That's why I'm asking I guess.

Thanks for the thoughts guys.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

LWRC, POF and Daniel Defense (DI if you don't care)... I have owned all three and all live up to their name.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

My LWRC has been flawless to date. Shoots the 69gr. match ammo sub moa to 300 and rings steel all day at 500. Never shot groups past 300 but a silhouette is no problem at 500. XM193 55gr. is about 1.5moa at 300. Plenty accurate and very reliable.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Thanks guys. Good idea on the 6.8spc. I'm seeing some patterns starting to show up which is helpful. I'm figuring I'll probably have to dump $1500-$2000 on this and your suggestions seem to be right in that ballpark.

Thanks again.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

I'm an LWRC fan. I have the 16 inch model, and it's pretty accurate, and eats every factory load and reload I throw at it, regardless of hot or mild I load them. I've started loading with 70 grain TSX bullets and 24 gr of Varget. (if my memory is correct)

All the reviews on these bullets seem really good; pretty much every account I can come across has the bullet going clean through, regardless of hitting bones, quartering shots etc. Some dude was shooting Caribou and elk with them, and was claiming through shots and dead within a few steps. I don't know about all that, but I am going to try them out on deer this year.

I can't brag about sub-moa groups, since I am using a Nightforce NSX 1-4 with the FC2 reticle, and the dot is an inch across at 100. But it kept them all at 2.5 inches or less, so I imagine the issue is with me. I'm going to put on some glass with crosshairs, and then we will see what it can really do as far as groups.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

If you are dead set on an AR platform in 223 I have a S&W and I have not had any probables with it. It is going to be lighter being a 16in DI gun. If it was me though I would look at a Galil or other AK varient with a folding skeliton stock; that would give you more a larger round and still keep the weight down. I will admit I am surprised nobody brought up a ar10 or some semiauto 308.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Ok, that you mention you aren't real concerned about Griz, .458 would be a bit over the top. As a previous poster mentioned, 6.8 SPC wouldn't be bad, and if you wanted something a bit better suited to somewhat longer ranges, you could look at 6.5 Grendel to.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Contact John at Noveske rifles. You will be thrilled with their 18" SPR platform. These are at the top of the AR platforms, ultra reliable and flawless. You can have your choice of calibers, 5.56,6.8spc, 308. One of these should handle your desires.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

SBR 6.8 12incher is what Id use, 95 gr Barnes TSX's would work nicely. pick your platform, I prefer LWRC and Noveske
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get an ak</div></div>
I have to agree with marduk.
A super ubber reliable auto in tough elements,light weight, mud, water and freezing....... Sounds like an AK platform and they work perfect with their standard iron sights.

*If you had to have an AR, I would pick a POF gas piston but 223 would not be my pick for a possible encounter with a grizzly.

*I would also consider a Saiga 12 gauge auto.
Many people underestimate how accurate a 12 gauge shooting slugs is..... At 100 yards...deadly.
7.62 X 39 or 12 gauge would be my choice but once you said grizzly........Me things 12 gauge slug.
Have fun and be careful
......SmokeRolls </div></div>
I second the saiga 12 guage if your only running slug & full power buck . I have one & love it but if you wanna run all types of ammo through it you gotta tune it .If you are going the ar route i would go with a 6.8 over a 223 . I can second Noveske as far a quality but i hate buying complete I always build my own up from the parts I want so I'm not paying for things I don't need or want , plus it's cheaper & fun .
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get an ak</div></div>
I have to agree with marduk.
A super ubber reliable auto in tough elements,light weight, mud, water and freezing....... Sounds like an AK platform and they work perfect with their standard iron sights.

*If you had to have an AR, I would pick a POF gas piston but 223 would not be my pick for a possible encounter with a grizzly.

*I would also consider a Saiga 12 gauge auto.
Many people underestimate how accurate a 12 gauge shooting slugs is..... At 100 yards...deadly.
7.62 X 39 or 12 gauge would be my choice but once you said grizzly........Me things 12 gauge slug.
Have fun and be careful
......SmokeRolls </div></div>

I think I would consider an AK over a AR for what you want. You can get a AK underfolder and it will weigh close to an AR. As far as AR's go, watch the POF, (I've had two were the pistons actually broke). Noveske, LWRC, POF, Knights are all high dollar AR's. If it were me, I would look at a Colt 6920. Reliable and affordable. A Saiga 12ga, is a good choice especially with the right shells. I gather you are looking at round count. If not, then a 44mag is bad either.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

I have a LWRC and a POF.

My LWRC has been reliable from day 1 with all magazines, ammo, conditions, etc. I've shot 300+ rounds through it in a session without cleaning with one misfeed, which was my fault since I did not have the magazine fully seated.

My POF has had problems with misfeeds, failures to extract, jams, etc with Hornady factory ammo. I'm still waiting on POF to get back to me on a fix.

I've shot and handled ARs or other similar platforms such as Colt, Bushmaster AR and ACR, Sig 556, FNH SCAR, etc...compared them side to side with my LWRC...and I still like my LWRC the most...but that is just me.

Having said all that I don't think a 223rem is adequate for a Grizzly.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a LWRC and a POF.

My LWRC has been reliable from day 1 with all magazines, ammo, conditions, etc. I've shot 300+ rounds through it in a session without cleaning with one misfeed, which was my fault since I did not have the magazine fully seated.

My POF has had problems with misfeeds, failures to extract, jams, etc with Hornady factory ammo. I'm still waiting on POF to get back to me on a fix.

I've shot and handled ARs or other similar platforms such as Colt, Bushmaster AR and ACR, Sig 556, FNH SCAR, etc...compared them side to side with my LWRC...and I still like my LWRC the most...but that is just me.

Having said all that I don't think a 223rem is adequate for a Grizzly.

</div></div>The only LWRC I've used is the REPR which was awesome but my only problem is it being proprietary , now I don't know if all their stuff is but that's a big turn off for me even if they are great guns . And as far using 223 on a bear yes it will kill one but would i bet my life on it ? NO especially when there are far better rounds in the same platform cough* 6,8 cough*
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Build your own.

Its cheaper (most times) and you could put the parts on it YOU want.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SBR 6.8 12incher is what Id use, 95 gr Barnes TSX's would work nicely. pick your platform, I prefer LWRC and Noveske</div></div> that's my deer load and it works great. Don't under estimate the power of a 6.8 in the short ranges you are speaking of. I would carry it. I also have a 6.8 LWRC M6A2 and is my hunting rifle and I have never had issues with it.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Just a noob on this site but I wouldnt go .223 either.

You would need to carry a hundred round mag and hope the weight of the 100 rounds will slow it down enough for you to out run your buddy.

AK or shotgun would be it.

If you want an AR I would go with an AR-10 but weight will be an issue as I remember from being up there 308 ammo is very pricey. But when you unload 20 into a target the size you speak of it will be worth it.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

There are a bunch of "Good" AR's out there. Personally, I like the smaller Manufacturers because of the Personal interaction and Great Customer Service. For Piston... Talk to Scott at POF. For DI... Talk to Tom at Spikes Tactical.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

my vote is a 16"-18" 6.8 if your carrying it to protect yourself and kill animals. LWRC makes some great gas piston uppers, noveske makes some really good DI 6.8 guns.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

lwrc 6.8 with 14.7 or 16" and you will be set. Light, powerful, utterly reliable and small package.....
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

there are some good weapons mentioned above and I have to toss out another . the colt 6920 or 6940 both excellent weapons . I also own a 458 socom and if it bleeds you can kill it with this beast which is also a very accurate rifle capable of minute of coyote out to 200 yds. one other thing , have you considered a large handgun . after a brief encounter with a rather large wild boar and only being armed with a number 5 fly rod I now pack my taurus raging bull chambered in 480 ruger when traveling in remote area,s of the ozarks.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Just an idea...but have you considered a FAL or M1A? You can get some pretty compact versions of these, and they shoot 308. That would be a nice way to go, and there are plenty of excellent hunting loads for the 308. I have 2 FALS and 2 M1A's and absolutely LOVE them. They are probably my most favorite guns I have....my Garand is a close second.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

+1 Something that shoots 308 will work great for what you want it for. JMO
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

I've considered the idea of a "scout rifle". Possibly a M1a or something like that. I packed a 454 casull for over ten years but sold it last fall. While it was a great round, I'm just not interested in getting back into a large wheelgun. My brother in law picked up a Robinson arms 6.8spc a year or so ago and loves the round. Nice light weight platform with enough "POP" if you need to make more of an impression.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember seeing quite a few threads over the years about the M1A being a bit fickle.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

It sounds to me like you aren't looking for something too fancy. I see a lot of high end AR's being recommended so far, and for a Iron-sight gun I would not recommend something like a LaRue, a Noveske, or Knights.

I would take your pick of the mid-models like RRA, Spikes, or BCM and buy a complete A2 (20" with iron sights) or M4 style (16") and be done with it.

If you are looking for a precision rig with optics, you can't go wrong with anything LaRue makes. *coolaid here*
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my vote is a 16"-18" 6.8 if your carrying it to protect yourself and kill animals. LWRC makes some great gas piston uppers, noveske makes some really good DI 6.8 guns. </div></div>

+1 for the 6.8, This will be my next AR. What a sweet, sweet round. 308 is a great round as well,but the 6.8 is freaking accurate.

I have a few .223 and I love them. Handles my reloads great.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Anybody remember a co. called Armalite? Yeah, they make AR10's....in different configurations. They're pretty good, I hear the AMU has used them for quite some time now.

BTW, where are you guys getting AK's that hold 1 to 1.5 moa?
wink.gif


okie
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

i have been doing a lot of research myself as i am building my own for a completely different job. i have been really impresssedwith everything i have read on rock river arms and Class3weapons.com has some of the best prices i have seen on them. Hope that helps and good luck with the bears!
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

"I'll probably have to dump $1500-$2000 on this "

You could get a 16" RRA and an 6.8 upper both in this price range. use the 5.56 for training and on the yotes, 6.8 as a hunting/ self defense. Best of both worlds.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Another vote for LWRC. My M6A3 has been flawless. The reliability has already been talked about with these. What hasn't been mentioned is LWRC's CS. Some of the best out there.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

Email Dave at Adco. They can build you a gun as well as sell you one already built. Major dealers for Rock River, Daniel Defense and others. Experts on the AR.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

There's also the DPMS AP4 in .308 . Cheaper end of the scale, launches some proven rounds, light, and reliable as most DI guns... I'm a sucker for the .308/7.62 NATO though. Can find ammo almost anywhere, prices range from dirt cheap plink ammo to high dollar precision stuff. Failing that, an AK with a decent red dot is hard to beat inside of 300m. They are not 1-1.5moa, but the dot makes a HUGE difference over irons in terms of speed AND accuracy. I know you are concerned about performance in cold, but my Aimpoints work very well in the ND winters (-20 or colder ambient). An AK, mount, and Aimpoint would still be under $1500.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: furtaker_.223</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my vote is a 16"-18" 6.8 if your carrying it to protect yourself and kill animals. LWRC makes some great gas piston uppers, noveske makes some really good DI 6.8 guns. </div></div>

+1 for the 6.8, This will be my next AR. What a sweet, sweet round. 308 is a great round as well,but the 6.8 is freaking accurate.

I have a few .223 and I love them. Handles my reloads great. </div></div>

amen to that....the 6.8 is what makes the AR a real stopper.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

How about a AR with an M203 or Masterkey mounted on the lower rail? That way you have the AR for the wolves and the grenade launcher or 12 gauge for the bears. The best of both worlds, right?
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If there's concern for grizzlies, a .50 Beowolf makes life seem safer. That, or the .458 SOCOM. </div></div>

This.

Go .50 Beowulf.
 
Re: trying to decide on an AR

All of my M1A's have been very reliable. Not finicky at all. Can lube it with grease instead of oil, and doesnt need cleaned too much. I have the scout version and full size versions.
 
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