- Thread starter p712k
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Is that a Mk 4 M1 16X? If it is, want to sell it?
Those scopes were on Mk13's and on some Army rifles. I am looking for one right now for a build. And the script on that looks right, even with the tape over the rest of it.
The Pic rail may be for a PEQ2 or similar.
Seriously, if interested in parting with that scope and if it is a 16X, I am very interested.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Those scopes were on Mk13's and on some Army rifles. I am looking for one right now for a build. And the script on that looks right, even with the tape over the rest of it.
The Pic rail may be for a PEQ2 or similar.
Seriously, if interested in parting with that scope and if it is a 16X, I am very interested.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Send this to Marty at Badger I'm pretty sure its one of their early NVD mounts.
Really, SirH...Have you no shame?
None at all when it comes to scopes.
Loved that scene... How much for the little girl.... Ah ha hahah ahaha haha
Sirhr
Loved that scene... How much for the little girl.... Ah ha hahah ahaha haha
Sirhr
Unfortunately it is not a 16X but a 6X - and it has M3 turrets calibrated for M118 - M118 is actually engraved on the dial. I didn't even know Leupold made a 6X Mark 4 until I saw this scope and googled it.
The seller also had the pelican cases that the rifles were deployed in, I assume the weapons were retained or crunched
, and the foam looked like it was cut for a AR type rifle with about a 20" barrel and a rifle stock. Don't know if it was a 5.56 or 7.62 since you can use a M118 BDC for either - not exact but close enough to get the job done.
I am thinking maybe a early SR-25? But if so why the 6X scope?
The seller also had the pelican cases that the rifles were deployed in, I assume the weapons were retained or crunched
, and the foam looked like it was cut for a AR type rifle with about a 20" barrel and a rifle stock. Don't know if it was a 5.56 or 7.62 since you can use a M118 BDC for either - not exact but close enough to get the job done.I am thinking maybe a early SR-25? But if so why the 6X scope?
p712k,
It was a short lived thing. A lot of the AR scopes were 1-6 or 1-4. It came out that 6x was really low enough to shoot CQB, yet high enough if you wanted to shoot out to 1k. After all, people shoot 1k with open sights. The scope was just enough magnification to do that. Anyhow, it was short lived as huge differences in powers, followed by mass building of FFP scopes made them much less desirable. Not obsolete, just not as versatile, as you can't see the second button down on your target from 1k away.
They work quite well, IMO, just not as sexy as a 5-25. I shot prairie dogs out to 800yd. with the predecessor of the Mk3, the M8 Vari-X III in 6X. They were tiny, but the glass was clear enough to see them. And, the splash so you could make an adjustment.
It was a short lived thing. A lot of the AR scopes were 1-6 or 1-4. It came out that 6x was really low enough to shoot CQB, yet high enough if you wanted to shoot out to 1k. After all, people shoot 1k with open sights. The scope was just enough magnification to do that. Anyhow, it was short lived as huge differences in powers, followed by mass building of FFP scopes made them much less desirable. Not obsolete, just not as versatile, as you can't see the second button down on your target from 1k away.
They work quite well, IMO, just not as sexy as a 5-25. I shot prairie dogs out to 800yd. with the predecessor of the Mk3, the M8 Vari-X III in 6X. They were tiny, but the glass was clear enough to see them. And, the splash so you could make an adjustment.
They went on bolt guns too. Urban combat, for those who carried bolt guns in that. At some point you would probably see those carrying bolt guns might wish for an AR, so on there they went too. The scope feels a bit big and bulky on the AR-15. Not so much on the Mk12 or M110.
That mount is a Knight's Armament NADS/TADS Mount.
Trigger Monkey,
I don't remember if it was you or not, but I thought I recall seeing you with an M24A2(?) May have been someone else. Something about how you guys used these in the field and you got a big fat "NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT" from Remington. Seems like it was before the move to Scout. Got any of those old pics?
Also, did you ever see those 6x's? Both the scope and that mount were long after my time. As was the M24. I relate only what I heard 2nd hand on them. I always thought it was a good idea to go with a fixed power, but so many want the variables, that that is what they are getting.
I never carried the M24A2, only the M24. I only know that NADS mount from previous research and from what I remember it wasn't in the system very long before better clip on systems came along. When I carried the M24 we had the Leupold M3A and PVS-10, I've never seen a M24 with the 6X optic on it, only a 10X.
In regards to the shift from fixed power optics to variable power optics I don't think it's a case of wanting a variable but needing a variable power optic for the environments that we are in today. Way back when doctrine typically told us that the sniper team was a two man team that was going out to collect intelligence and engage selected targets with precision rifle fire. In many ways that was the Cold War thinking, two guys sneaking about, taking a limited number of shots from a position, and moving on. For that type of operation the fixed 10X optics from Unertl and Leupold made sense, they were tough, reliable, had enough magnification to engage targets at distance but not so much magnification that the field of view was horrible or have mirage ruin the image quality. Skip ahead to the Global War on Terror and the old doctrine damn near gets turned on its head. As we were operating in both urban environments and mountainous terrainthe 10X optics was left wanting in more ways than one because it was too little magnification for those shots to the next ridge in Afghanistan and almost too much magnification for engaging multiple targets in those urban areas. Variable power optics provide shooters the flexibility to better see details at long range, dial it down for wider field of view in closer range engagements, and dial down the mag for use with clip on night sights. Variable power construction has also gotten a lot better and a lot more durable.
In regards to the shift from fixed power optics to variable power optics I don't think it's a case of wanting a variable but needing a variable power optic for the environments that we are in today. Way back when doctrine typically told us that the sniper team was a two man team that was going out to collect intelligence and engage selected targets with precision rifle fire. In many ways that was the Cold War thinking, two guys sneaking about, taking a limited number of shots from a position, and moving on. For that type of operation the fixed 10X optics from Unertl and Leupold made sense, they were tough, reliable, had enough magnification to engage targets at distance but not so much magnification that the field of view was horrible or have mirage ruin the image quality. Skip ahead to the Global War on Terror and the old doctrine damn near gets turned on its head. As we were operating in both urban environments and mountainous terrainthe 10X optics was left wanting in more ways than one because it was too little magnification for those shots to the next ridge in Afghanistan and almost too much magnification for engaging multiple targets in those urban areas. Variable power optics provide shooters the flexibility to better see details at long range, dial it down for wider field of view in closer range engagements, and dial down the mag for use with clip on night sights. Variable power construction has also gotten a lot better and a lot more durable.
Thanks Trigger Monkey! Googled it for more info and it looks like it is from the mid/late 90s. This makes sense because the scope was made in 1995.
Just for reference in case someone else turns up with one of these here is a brochure from KAC about their NV that mentions the NADS/TADS system: https://www.knightarmco.com/pdf/kvfoldout-final.pdf
And here is a picture of one without the scope and cammo.
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Trigger Monlkey,
I'd have to say the best stuff we carried wasn't as good as the worst stuff you guys got your hands on. I never saw the Mk 4 6X either as it was way past my time. I just knew they existed. I did a lot of shooting with a big bell Weaver K6 back in those days though, and they were pretty handy. The tiny little pos scope we put on our M16A1's back in the day were hardly clear enough to see through, let alone be usable. The ART II's that went on the M21's weren't even that clear. You could barely use them on a very well lit night. Unlike the scopes I have now that can "see" better in the dark than I can with naked eyes.
One of the reasons I love these discussions is all the stuff that came out that was needed. Picatinny's weren't even a concept back then. Sure scopes could be mounted and unmounted and returned with a reasonable degree of repeatability. But, not from one weapon type to another. Only to THAT weapon. Clarity in scopes has gotten so much better. Even the '70's/'80's top end scopes were barely better than their predecessors at night time visibility. Makes me wonder how much the hunting world drove technology to a point where 'that last little bit of light' could be used. I look through my modern USO;s, Swarovski's, NF's, Meopta's and a S&B at what I could barely see with the naked eye several hundred yards out in twilight, and I can see the object much clearer.
I'd have to say the best stuff we carried wasn't as good as the worst stuff you guys got your hands on. I never saw the Mk 4 6X either as it was way past my time. I just knew they existed. I did a lot of shooting with a big bell Weaver K6 back in those days though, and they were pretty handy. The tiny little pos scope we put on our M16A1's back in the day were hardly clear enough to see through, let alone be usable. The ART II's that went on the M21's weren't even that clear. You could barely use them on a very well lit night. Unlike the scopes I have now that can "see" better in the dark than I can with naked eyes.
One of the reasons I love these discussions is all the stuff that came out that was needed. Picatinny's weren't even a concept back then. Sure scopes could be mounted and unmounted and returned with a reasonable degree of repeatability. But, not from one weapon type to another. Only to THAT weapon. Clarity in scopes has gotten so much better. Even the '70's/'80's top end scopes were barely better than their predecessors at night time visibility. Makes me wonder how much the hunting world drove technology to a point where 'that last little bit of light' could be used. I look through my modern USO;s, Swarovski's, NF's, Meopta's and a S&B at what I could barely see with the naked eye several hundred yards out in twilight, and I can see the object much clearer.
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