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Rifle Scopes TT, Tangent Theta Optics?

Strykervet

Strykervet

ain'T goT no how whaTchamacalliT
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Jun 5, 2011
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    Pierce County, WA
    So a fellow approached me, I mentioned I was looking for a quality scope with lots of vertical adj., and that I was holding out for the BEAST. But he mentioned these Tangent Theta scopes, which cost a good bit more than the BEAST, but appear to have one hell of a warranty (looks like it'll outlive most of us, it's that good!).

    But how does the scope measure up? It has slightly less MOA than does the BEAST, but it's lauded to have better optics and to be engineered to be the best on the market (according to him).

    So anyone have one? How's it stack up to NF or USO or Swarovski or S&Bk concerning optics? Is it tough, can you hammer nails with it like you can the USO?

    BTW, this scope will be used on a DTA HTI in .50BMG, a fairly light rifle of that caliber. They claim it can hold up, but what do you guys think?

    Any first hand info with this optic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, and safe shooting!
     
    It's the new improved Premier Line renamed to TT...

    The changes were needed, and welcome, the improvements have elevated the line well beyond the Premiers, the price is a bit up there, so it's value is up to the end users.

    Neither scope is officially out yet, so holding out for either is gonna be necessary and there has only be limited access on which to gauge worth, and value per dollar.

    I think the Beast is a better value, It's gonna be more than $1000 less, but the TT is definitely a top tier scope. I have been running a BEAST since October and it's been awesome in every way.
     
    quattrodoc said:
    http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...9801-tangent-theta-professional-marksman.html

    Have not fondled one, but sure would like one!!
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, i looked at that link and that's the guy that contacted me. He was a straight up guy, but obviously selling his product. The only thing that really hinders me in including them in my decision is that not only do they cost more, they are new and with no reviews or anything of the nature outside the mfg. If I could check one out, I may seriously consider them. Short of that, it may be years before I consider them. I'm not the new model year adopter type, I seldom rush out for the latest and greatest thing.

    I asked if they could send me a demo for testing that I'd do a write up on and send back, and if I like it I'll laud them online and purchase one for myself. We'll see how that goes. Short of that, I'll let you guys be the guinea pigs and I'll wait until there's enough data for me to make an informed purchase.
     
    Lowlight said:
    It's the new improved Premier Line renamed to TT...

    The changes were needed, and welcome, the improvements have elevated the line well beyond the Premiers, the price is a bit up there, so it's value is up to the end users.

    Neither scope is officially out yet, so holding out for either is gonna be necessary and there has only be limited access on which to gauge worth, and value per dollar.

    I think the Beast is a better value, It's gonna be more than $1000 less, but the TT is definitely a top tier scope. I have been running a BEAST since October and it's been awesome in every way.
    Click to expand...

    Thanks Lowlight, I know you were waiting for/getting the BEAST, that you really had high hopes for that. It's my choice too and I think I'm gonna hold out on that one. I read your posts on it and I think you chimed in on one of my threads about it last year when I first heard of it and considered it.

    Any inside idea when the BEAST is gonna hit the market? What's taking so long? I gotta rifle I can't use until it does. Lucky you, having one SINCE October! And BTW, how much useable vertical adj. do you have? I know it has 120MOA, but just how much of that is available in practice?
     
    Lowlight said it perfectly. The Tangent Theta line is a big improvement mechanically and feature-wise over the old Premiers but whether it's worth $1000 more than the BEAST is up to the user. I loved the Tangent Theta's and decided to wait on one instead of the BEAST after handling both, but feel I would have been just as well served by the NF, and probably wouldn't have missed out on anything going with Nightforce, all the Nightforce scopes I've owned have done all I asked of them and taken punishment without failure.

    The Tangent Theta is something that must be seen and handled to be appreciated for most I think. There's alot of grumbling over the price, which is understandable considering it's got stiff competition from at least 3 other manufacturers for $1000 less, and Schmidt-Bender's proven 5-25x56 is cheaper by almost a couple hundred also, but when I turned the turrets and felt the magnification ring I was hooked on the Tangent Theta. I agree with Lowlight that the TT is not really a good "value" financially but to me it's the Lamborghini. Yes there are cheaper competitors that have 99% of the performance for 70% of the $$, but there are still some people who just have to have the Lambo anyway.
     
    I looked at all of the top tier scopes at shot show and was the most impressed with the Tangent Theta. I have one on order. The Beast would be my second choice. Neither are available yet to the general public, so it will be a waiting game on both accounts. If you honestly don't like buying brand new scope designs, you would probably be better off looking at something that has been out for several years. Just my opinion.
     
    I only fiddled with both the BEAST and TT on the SHOT and to me TT was the clear winner of the two. Optically speaking, they are outstanding. You don't get the tube shade like at the BEAST and the eyepiece is very thin so you get a floating reticle feeling almost on the same level as the Hensoldt scopes. Very nice clarity but that has to be considered as only seen inside at the SHOT in both cases. I haven't had a chance to look at them out in the open. By comparing the two, I would have to say that the TT beat the NF on the optics.

    However, what I was mostly inpressed by was the clicks. They are utterly, completely sweeeeet! It's impossible to describe them but it's probably the best I ever tested and by talking to Erik and Andrew I understood the kind of work these guys had to put into this but you can see the result. I also understood that the old Premier problems had been adressed and they are just history. I am very eager to test them as soon as they come out, whatever the cost. They are a must to have.

    The size of the turrets is much more confortable than the BEASTs as well and the TT come furnished from the start with both tenebraex flip-up covers and kill flash ard. Putting all this together I don't think the $1000 is that big of a difference as they offer both extra accessories and better quality.
     
    Last edited:
    Shortcut...aren't you the guy who suckles the IOR teet? Leads one to question credibility.
     
    Pleasures IOR orally and routinely bashes NF .... So take it for what it's worth, he looked at them inside the building at Shot with TT being in the small side room... that screams credibility & experience.
     
    Well, I challenge anyone to have seen the TT anywhere but indoors. The scopes, to my knowledge, are not out there yet. I looked at both the BEAST and TT under the same conditions, indoors, and my observations are as stated. I bash the NXS and there are plenty of reasons for that. I do however not bash the BEAST which I stated several times that it's finally a Nightforce that comes close to what I had wished to see for many years but I guess that's not something anybody cared to read. Are they at the same level with the TT scopes? Not from what I could see.

    Regarding the TT, I think everybody that was at the SHOT and saw the scopes, will know who of us is bullshitting and who is not. If anybody, and I couldn't give a shit who that somebody might be, says those scopes are shit, that person must be high, retarded or blind. I don't know how they track but will definitely look forward to testing them as soon as I have the chance, so that I cannot say anything about yet, but again, in terms of optics, design, zeroing, size and size of the turrets, they are as good as they can be.

    Anybody doubting my credibility should try to have a look for themselves if they have the chance.
    Probably the Nightforce mafia will transform this thread, the same way they do with pretty much all other threads that challenge their opinions, into a thread that will try to convince the readers about the fact that TT scopes are nothing but expensive pieces of shit (it actually has already been tried under the first TT thread). I do however trust the readers to be decerning enough to see through these attempts.
     
    Two completely different rooms... Completely different lighting, and completely different space.

    You edited your bash, that is clear to see.

    Nobody even suggested the TT was shit, your words, so clearly you're bullshitting and hyping the drama. You put down something you looked at during a trade show, never used, sure you edited it down, but prior you slammed it. Then you act like the TT is under attack, it was not. The only point made against was the price, it has not proven itself to be a $1000 better scope.

    You're all that wrong with opinions on the internet. Maybe you need to go start your own site.
     
    Lowlight said:
    Two completely different rooms... Completely different lighting, and completely different space.

    You edited your bash, that is clear to see.
    Click to expand...

    None of the differences I saw between the 2 scopes at the SHOT have anything to do with what you say. The eyepiece beeing very thin and giving a floating retice feeling has nothing to do with where you look at the scope. It's either there or it isn't. Same with the tube shade. One could not have avoided seeing the difference between the two. Now, I am sure that you know that just as well as I do but for some reason pretend not to. I am not sure why though.

    Regarding the quality of the clicks, size of the turrets and zeroing system, what does that have to do with beeing outside or inside?

    However, all this is irrelevant until the scopes be tested in the open. You tested the BEAST and are happy with it. I do not doubt anything you said about that as I only have (and have been very clear about that in all my posts) been very happy with the mechanical qualities of NF and I don't doubt the BEAST will be at least at the same level.

    For some reason though, every time a brand is beeing compared with NF and more positive things come up that seem to place the NF scopes in a worse place, you cut off those posts by simply stating that the people writing them are nothing but pieces of shit, assholes or whatever else and often finish your posts by inviting them to piss off and start their own forums where they can praise whatever brand they want. The discussion is rarely carried around the technicalities but often directed at the person. You obviously have the right to do that in your own house and I do not question that right, but I still find it weird and questionable in regards to the objectivity of the posts.

    That was the exact thing you actually wrote in your previous post:

    Pleasures IOR orally and routinely bashes NF .... So take it for what it's worth, he looked at them inside the building at Shot with TT being in the small side room... that screams credibility & experience.

    You have not adressed any of the aspects I pointed out between the two scopes but chose to denigrate the post by basically saying "the guy doesn't have a clue".
    Again, a behaviour I noticed many times from you and some other guys here when Nightforce is beeing questioned.
     
    Last edited:
    When people say that it has been mechanically improved are they referring to the parallax adjustment?
     
    WTF is a "tube shade" and thin eye piece mean... sounds pretty inexperienced to me.

    You praise Hensoldt in most posts and then say it's a negative here, please you have no clue what you are saying. If anything it's because of the reticle design and not the eye piece giving you a floating effect. And Tube shade... is that a sunshade ? I have no clue what a "tube shade" and I suspect no one else does.

    Really in the big picture it has nothing to do with NF but your ridiculous examples pretending to sound like you know what you are talking about. That is the problem. and I was not the only one to question you regarding IOR.

    I still think you need to go start your own site and remove yourself from this one, as I have had quite enough of your bullshit. Maybe come back in a year or two after you built your own brand, clearly we don't know anything and you're misunderstood here. So log out and go hit up Go Daddy for a domain of your own... I am for one am interested to see what you create.

    And TT did more than fix the parallax, they redesigned the turret system, it's completely different now from the older Premiers, there was quite a bit more done to it in order to address some of the stuff with the Premiers. Turrets were just a big, visible part of it.
     
    Both are unobtanium right now. One is from a solid company that puts out products with super low failure rates and the other is from a new company that's making an "improved" design on a problemed product from a failed company.

    I was a guinea pig for premier once and I won't do it again. Until the new scopes are in the hands of shooters and are put through testing by qualified individuals no way would I even consider one. Arm chair evaluations and looking through one indoors doesn't say a damn thing about the product. Nor does a dealer touting them thats only doing it for a profit. The premiers got rave reviews before they were released and look how that turned out.

    The beast has been in the works for 3-4 years, considering we just heard of TT a couple months before SHOT, how long do you think it's been in the works, and how much testing do you think have been done? Frank has had a beast for a little while now and is obviously happy with it, I trust his judgement regarding optics and he's one of the few who's feedback I would trust enough to blindly order a product.

    It's your money in the end but I think for buying either this early in their production the NF is clearly the better choice.
     
    Shortcut said:
    I only fiddled with both the BEAST and TT on the SHOT and to me TT was the clear winner of the two.

    I would have to say that the TT beat the NF on the optics.
    Click to expand...

    I have picked just two parts of your comment but I find it interesting that you feel you had handled either scope enough to quantify either of those statements. As others have stated I don't think you can really compare optics at all inside I artificially lit room, even outside I don't think I could truly say one is better than another without having used them in a multitude of environments and lighting conditions. You also challenge anyone to handle a TT other than indoors yet no one else is saying what the TT is like for the very reason that they HAVEN'T handled them outdoors or for long enough to give and honest appraisal, No one is saying they're not good just that no one knows for sure yet.

    Your statements remind me of opening a youtube video of a product review and seeing it on a table and them opening the retail packaging... That's not a review it's their first impressions. I don't want to see or hear some guy who has just opened something tell me it the greatest thing since sliced bread I want to see/hear from the guy who has used it for 6 months, beat it to hell and not babied it tell me what they think and why.
     
    Last edited:
    Yeah, I'm thinking the BEAST is the best way for me to go too, it was my decision after lots of research and threads I started on here months ago and I've been on a waiting list. For all the reasons stated above, I think the BEAST is the safest bet. TT MAY be better, but I don't wanna be the one to find out if it's a full $1000 better. But it was worth a shot asking if others had ideas about them. I was just kinda shocked at how this thread turned out, it had more emotion than I figured it would.

    But thanks to you all, you all pretty much ratified my decision to go with the BEAST, and to just hold out and wait.

    Too bad S&B and some others didn't have more elevation!
     
    How far out will you be shooting your DTA? With MRAD knobs the S&B 5-25 has over 26mils of adjustment on the double turn turret. There's more than enough internal travel to get the full turret revolution even with a 30MOA mount. You could also run 45-50MOA of cant, zero further and reach further out.
     
    I know TT says they've made design changes to the turrets and erector, but I thought they left the glass/lens/prescription as-is.

    Wouldn't that mean the TT scopes would be the same as the old Premiers optically?
     
    I don't have to handle a TT scope to make a decision as to whether I'd like it or not because I choose my scopes based on the features I prefer.

    I want to be able to mount my scopes on any of my precision rifles whether that be a air rifle, a rimfire or a centerfire. I shoot Field target air rifle from 10-55Y, 22 precision matches from 10Y to whatever, tactical and ELR centerfire and hunting as well for all three. BTW I've shot 4 COF's in tactical matches where distances were less than 25Y, one being 11Y, all using 50Y min parallax scopes and all 4 COF's leaving me pissed off because I knew how handy 10Y parallax was already.

    S&B won because they offer the H59 reticle, the H2CMR (I like and use .2 mil hashes) and has 10Y parallax on the 5-25 or 25M on the 3-20.

    March because of their 10Y parallax but am hoping for better reticles in 2014.

    The NF Beast would next because at least they designed in 25Y minimum parallax on it and offer the H59. Might be the perfect ELR scope!

    Vortex G2 for their value and 32-37Y parallax.
     
    I think tube shade is tunneling? Like on the lower mags of the S&B 5-25

    I looked at the BEAST a shooter had at the K&M match and the knobs looked very busy. I ordered a Kahles 6-24 and have been very happy so far. Its Clean and simple and the glass looks great.
     
    WOW. I guy looks at a yet to be released SCOPE at a trade show. Comes onto a forum that exists to discuss such things. Says he liked the SCOPE and immediately gets trashed and told to go start his own forum by forum members not to mention the forum owner? Is there something I'm missing?
     
    My prediction is in one year from now that the Tangent Theta will be the go to scope for the Schmidt & Bender "class" shooters. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) BullyDog, June 2014
     
    Last edited:
    Not at those prices and nothing done with the optics. The S&B glare from reflections was carried over to PH by the optronika (ex S&B) crew, hope they find a solution for that but seeing as they did not change the optical formula; you're paying $1000 more for something ethereal. My S&B 12-50 suffers from it, as did the PH 5-25s I had. Mighty fine scope otherwise, but I don't see any quality return for the new price points. The $4500 is the new $3000 so to speak, and people are waiting in line to burn their money. I'll keep an eye out on the PX store for some 2nd hand S&Bs. You see last years fad there for a discount. Lots of Steiners popping up now.
     
    Dead Nutz said:
    WOW. I guy looks at a yet to be released SCOPE at a trade show. Comes onto a forum that exists to discuss such things. Says he liked the SCOPE and immediately gets trashed and told to go start his own forum by forum members not to mention the forum owner? Is there something I'm missing?
    Click to expand...

    +1 I don't see what he did wrong, maybe it was another thread? Why would a forum owner trash a member like that?
     
    Yeah Frank, I have a bad taste in my mouth too, but it's not from Shortcut's posts, it's from your classless response. I used to think more highly of you.
    Skip
     
    Bounce said:
    Yeah Frank, I have a bad taste in my mouth too, but it's not from Shortcut's posts, it's from your classless response. I used to think more highly of you.
    Skip
    Click to expand...

    Do not forget, you are in Frank's house now. Frank is a straight shooter (no pun intended) who speaks his own mind in his own house. If you do not like it, then leave.

    Shortcut has a history here getting into it with Frank. So Shortcut has "stirred the shit" so to speak.
     
    If you don't like it LEAVE... there door swings both ways, and yes he was acting like a Troll in other threads, and constantly gave bad information in the form of his "opinion" but was saying crap that made no sense.

    Since I am home today, i can easily give him company
     
    And here is an FYI for the 30 day wonders who want to question how I run My Site.

    Been doing this for 14 years, if you think I appreciate anyone coming in here and telling me how to run my site, well let us know how that works out for you if you can.

    As if you'd walk blindly into any business and pretend you know something, "Money is Involved" please... You never met me, you don't know the first thing about me or my business relationships with anyone, so if you're gonna pretend you have a clue, trust me you will lose.

    If you're gonna poke me in public as if you know me or know something about me, I'll dump you. If you step up like a man and ask me you'll get a straight answer, but if you're gonna run around here and spew crap as if it's fact, you'll only last a short time. We'll correct you once, we might correct you twice but by the 3rd or 4th regurgitation of the same old crap, we'll just ban your account. We don't suffer fools ask anyone. We don't need trolls on here fronting as if they know something.
     
    escalated.jpg
     
    I was at the WY match last weekend and someone was using the new TT scope. I was surprised seeing it. I didn't look through the scope so I don't have anything on that, but knobs looked/felt good and the guy spoke well of it (go figure).

    I don't see paying the premium for these though esp when older used Premeirs are going for so cheap. That and Steiners. And Nightforces. etc etc. I think the new Vortex and new Steiner will all but put these guys on the back shelf in that price range. Time will tell.

    Regards,
    DT
     
    I had a pleasure to meet Andrew Webber & TT gang a while ago.

    Hard to say anything about optics quality based on brief indoor trial- but turrets were really good. Perhaps the best feel I have tried- ever.
     
    Potentially nice optic, but for me it's DOA without more reticle choice.
    For the 5-25 I'd like to see something like a .040 mrad thin MSR, with more of it lit, and skeletonized bars like the S&B 12-50 P4F;
     

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    I would be surprised if this scope company makes it. I feel that they are selling a product that is out of reach to 90% of shooters, and I don't see how a company can make it selling to 10% of the industry? Not wishing any ill will, I'm sure from the reports I'm hearing its a super nice scope. Prices are just getting out of control.
     
    I'm coming out with a new scope called the Alpha Omega. It's going to cost around 10,000 dollars, so as you can tell by the price, it is going to be the best scope ever made.

    My sales men will be by shortly to talk about how amazing the scope is, even though no one has used it. They will go on and on about how much better it is than every optic out right now, even though no one has used it.

    I hope these TT are a success with all of their hype, because they are going to be blown away when the AO comes out, because it's the best. Also a side note, in case I didn't say it before, they will be $10,000, because they are perfect in every way and destroy the competition.
     
    I have heard about the Alpha Omega second gen. It will cost $12,000 and will be named the Omnipotent it will even be better than the Alpha Omega. And cost $12,000.
     
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