I know this has been asked before, but is this really unsafe? I have about 100 loose 300 AAC BO rounds that got mixed in with a bunch of suppressor fired brass and well lets just say, they are REALLY dirty. Is it going to hurt to tumble them for a bit to get all that carbon and junk off of them?
Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
- Thread starter DarkD
- Start date
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
Don't do it. It has been claimed that the primer compound is rattled too much and degrades. Seems reasonable and reason enough to not do it, if you ask me. BB
Don't do it. It has been claimed that the primer compound is rattled too much and degrades. Seems reasonable and reason enough to not do it, if you ask me. BB
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
The other concern would be if they were tumbled long enough for some of the powder to be broken down. If that happens, you may get a nasty pressure spike.
The other concern would be if they were tumbled long enough for some of the powder to be broken down. If that happens, you may get a nasty pressure spike.
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
The Dominican Republic made 50BMG ammo a long time ago with yellow tips. These were called "Heavy Ball" ammo and used for light armor piercing jobs. Well, by the time the DR decided to sell a bunch of it they were corroded so they tumbled the rounds to clean them up. This resulted in the powder inside the casings to also grind together and break down into smaller pieces. Smaller Pieces = More Surface Area = Higher Burn Rate = Higher Pressure.
I ran into this problem when I shot a Heavy Ball round out of my M96 Windrunner. There was an overpressure (no rupture though), the brass got stuck, and I had to ship my rifle back to Bill at EDM Arms to get it out and a full check-up. Bill was/is top-notch though and did it for free. Shipping to/from was a bitch though.
I'm not saying this will happen to you, I'm just saying it could. You've been warned.
The Dominican Republic made 50BMG ammo a long time ago with yellow tips. These were called "Heavy Ball" ammo and used for light armor piercing jobs. Well, by the time the DR decided to sell a bunch of it they were corroded so they tumbled the rounds to clean them up. This resulted in the powder inside the casings to also grind together and break down into smaller pieces. Smaller Pieces = More Surface Area = Higher Burn Rate = Higher Pressure.
I ran into this problem when I shot a Heavy Ball round out of my M96 Windrunner. There was an overpressure (no rupture though), the brass got stuck, and I had to ship my rifle back to Bill at EDM Arms to get it out and a full check-up. Bill was/is top-notch though and did it for free. Shipping to/from was a bitch though.
I'm not saying this will happen to you, I'm just saying it could. You've been warned.
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
I have heard the arguments against tumbling loaded ammo. The argument that it will break down powder by breaking stick powders or by removing the retardant coatings are concerns of those who say don't do it.. I have also heard from Dillon Precision that they have tumbled hundreds of thousands of loaded rounds with no ill effects. I myself have tumbled loaded rifle ammo to remove the case lube, but only for short periods of time like 10 minutes. I didn't notice any ill effects, these were .223 rounds loaded for service rifle competition and I shot just as well. FWIW, I quit tumbling my rifle rounds to remove the lube because doing so very quickly contaminated my tumbling media so I had to change it much more often. I would think that tumbling your 80 dirty rounds for a short period of time isn't going to make them dangerous.
I have heard the arguments against tumbling loaded ammo. The argument that it will break down powder by breaking stick powders or by removing the retardant coatings are concerns of those who say don't do it.. I have also heard from Dillon Precision that they have tumbled hundreds of thousands of loaded rounds with no ill effects. I myself have tumbled loaded rifle ammo to remove the case lube, but only for short periods of time like 10 minutes. I didn't notice any ill effects, these were .223 rounds loaded for service rifle competition and I shot just as well. FWIW, I quit tumbling my rifle rounds to remove the lube because doing so very quickly contaminated my tumbling media so I had to change it much more often. I would think that tumbling your 80 dirty rounds for a short period of time isn't going to make them dangerous.
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1match</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> FWIW, I quit tumbling my rifle rounds to remove the lube because doing so very quickly contaminated my tumbling media so I had to change it much more often. I would think that tumbling your 80 dirty rounds for a short period of time isn't going to make them dangerous.</div></div>
Yes it does contaminate the media quick. I tumble my cases after sizing to get the lube off before loading and I have two sets of media. A dirty set and clean set. I keep them in 5 gal buckets. The dirty is for the oil removal and the clean is for actually cleaning. Otherwise you'd have to change the media all the time at the amount that I'm cleaning...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1match</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> FWIW, I quit tumbling my rifle rounds to remove the lube because doing so very quickly contaminated my tumbling media so I had to change it much more often. I would think that tumbling your 80 dirty rounds for a short period of time isn't going to make them dangerous.</div></div>
Yes it does contaminate the media quick. I tumble my cases after sizing to get the lube off before loading and I have two sets of media. A dirty set and clean set. I keep them in 5 gal buckets. The dirty is for the oil removal and the clean is for actually cleaning. Otherwise you'd have to change the media all the time at the amount that I'm cleaning...
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
Give them a wipe down and then shoot them, being a bit mucky isn't going to effect accuracy.
I do not know if tumbling loaded ammo has any ill effects of not, but there are enough warnings not to do it so why take the chance?
Give them a wipe down and then shoot them, being a bit mucky isn't going to effect accuracy.
I do not know if tumbling loaded ammo has any ill effects of not, but there are enough warnings not to do it so why take the chance?
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
I'm with Dillon, I generally let mine run a couple hours after I load them so they look shiny new.
If there is some 'degradation of powder arguement' to be made, I have a little more common sense that that, given that Lake City Army Ammunition Plant shipped untold thousands of rounds of rifle ammo towards both coasts on railcars during WWII. Rail travel in a boxcar is much more violent than anything my Dillon tumbler could do, as is truck travel, in non air ride equipped trucks, (which were not too prevalant pre 1960).
And even if we didn't go back to WWII, imagine the truck ride from Western Powder in Montana to Powder Valley in Tennessee, then back on a truck to ride to me in Arizona.
And you really think I'm gonna rub some powder the wrong way in a vibratory tumbler?
I polished some junky '06 six rounds for a week to try to get them clean, ran just fine, pulled some down and ran the powder (4895) in my M1A, it was fine too.
Just what I've experienced, and Dillon (both the company and the person) probably have run a few more rounds through a few more weapons than most folks on this board, I'd trust them.
And for a cheap media fix, of course you gotta be a volume reloader or go in with friends, try your local sandblasting supply, I buy 50lb bags of corncob for 26 bucks, and I only need a couple bags a year and I'm good.
sean
I'm with Dillon, I generally let mine run a couple hours after I load them so they look shiny new.
If there is some 'degradation of powder arguement' to be made, I have a little more common sense that that, given that Lake City Army Ammunition Plant shipped untold thousands of rounds of rifle ammo towards both coasts on railcars during WWII. Rail travel in a boxcar is much more violent than anything my Dillon tumbler could do, as is truck travel, in non air ride equipped trucks, (which were not too prevalant pre 1960).
And even if we didn't go back to WWII, imagine the truck ride from Western Powder in Montana to Powder Valley in Tennessee, then back on a truck to ride to me in Arizona.
And you really think I'm gonna rub some powder the wrong way in a vibratory tumbler?
I polished some junky '06 six rounds for a week to try to get them clean, ran just fine, pulled some down and ran the powder (4895) in my M1A, it was fine too.
Just what I've experienced, and Dillon (both the company and the person) probably have run a few more rounds through a few more weapons than most folks on this board, I'd trust them.
And for a cheap media fix, of course you gotta be a volume reloader or go in with friends, try your local sandblasting supply, I buy 50lb bags of corncob for 26 bucks, and I only need a couple bags a year and I'm good.
sean
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
iv tumbled thousands of loaded rounds with no problem
and here is an informal experiment thats worth reading
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/989047_...unds_in_OP.html
iv tumbled thousands of loaded rounds with no problem
and here is an informal experiment thats worth reading
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/989047_...unds_in_OP.html
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
Buy some unsweetened lemon/lemonaide Kool-Aide (pretty much pure citric acid) and mix it with enough (just a little) water to make a paste. Rub/polish the cartridges with a soft cloth and some of the paste. Wipe with a dry cloth, and then with one dampened in alcohol.
This probably won't get it all, but every bit helps. It should become clean enough to chamber, fire, and extract. After that, you can tumble-clean the empty brass to your heart's delight.
I've researched both sides of the argument, and the best I can say is I still don't know, and I still don't trust the practice.
When faced with such a quandry, I look for an alternate approach. My alternate appears above.
Greg
Buy some unsweetened lemon/lemonaide Kool-Aide (pretty much pure citric acid) and mix it with enough (just a little) water to make a paste. Rub/polish the cartridges with a soft cloth and some of the paste. Wipe with a dry cloth, and then with one dampened in alcohol.
This probably won't get it all, but every bit helps. It should become clean enough to chamber, fire, and extract. After that, you can tumble-clean the empty brass to your heart's delight.
I've researched both sides of the argument, and the best I can say is I still don't know, and I still don't trust the practice.
When faced with such a quandry, I look for an alternate approach. My alternate appears above.
Greg
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
read the link justinbaker posted.........
if you really think about it, tumbling it is much less a threat, than the violent jaring that ammo goes through when its rammed into the chamber. not to mention all the shipping and drops that often take place.
although I have to agree in most cases,you probably could find a easier/faster method to clean,in most cases
read the link justinbaker posted.........
if you really think about it, tumbling it is much less a threat, than the violent jaring that ammo goes through when its rammed into the chamber. not to mention all the shipping and drops that often take place.
although I have to agree in most cases,you probably could find a easier/faster method to clean,in most cases
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
There's merit to both sides, but I'd think it's just not worth the risk, nor worth the gunk that might end up in your gun. Not for 100 rounds. If you want to save the brass, just get a bullet puller or inertial hammer puller, break them all down, then reload them like they'd been fired, but there's always the risk of decapping live primers. I've personally done hundreds of live decappings and never had one go off, so I really don't know what the level of risk is, but I've heard anecdotes about decapping causing firings so use your best judgement.
There's merit to both sides, but I'd think it's just not worth the risk, nor worth the gunk that might end up in your gun. Not for 100 rounds. If you want to save the brass, just get a bullet puller or inertial hammer puller, break them all down, then reload them like they'd been fired, but there's always the risk of decapping live primers. I've personally done hundreds of live decappings and never had one go off, so I really don't know what the level of risk is, but I've heard anecdotes about decapping causing firings so use your best judgement.
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
Personally, I see absolutely no reason to do it? As has been pointed out, there are faster and better ways to clean dirty ammunition, and here's the problem: somebody reads that it's perfectly safe to tumble for ten minutes and then, forgets and leaves the stuff in the vibratory for a week and a half. It's like a lot of things where if you have half a brain....but some folks don't pay attention and who's to say that 99 out of a hundred times, it's perfectly safe?
I still say, (and don't give a shit what Dillon does), the logic doesn't escape me. And I can probably take a quick bath in gasoline, no harm done, right? I have driven plenty of washboard roads that would be worse than rail cars, I promise; and I worry about my handloads rattling around in the back of the truck, so don't tell me I have no worries. I will take precautions as I see fit, like a folded up paper towel under the lid, etc.; call me anal, I answer to that.
All this advice is free, my vote is don't do it. It's like being a "little bit pregnant" you never know what some jerk does with free advice? And, in this case, you don't even have a good reason for doing it, but don't let that stop you.....what could go wrong, duh? BB
Personally, I see absolutely no reason to do it? As has been pointed out, there are faster and better ways to clean dirty ammunition, and here's the problem: somebody reads that it's perfectly safe to tumble for ten minutes and then, forgets and leaves the stuff in the vibratory for a week and a half. It's like a lot of things where if you have half a brain....but some folks don't pay attention and who's to say that 99 out of a hundred times, it's perfectly safe?
I still say, (and don't give a shit what Dillon does), the logic doesn't escape me. And I can probably take a quick bath in gasoline, no harm done, right? I have driven plenty of washboard roads that would be worse than rail cars, I promise; and I worry about my handloads rattling around in the back of the truck, so don't tell me I have no worries. I will take precautions as I see fit, like a folded up paper towel under the lid, etc.; call me anal, I answer to that.
All this advice is free, my vote is don't do it. It's like being a "little bit pregnant" you never know what some jerk does with free advice? And, in this case, you don't even have a good reason for doing it, but don't let that stop you.....what could go wrong, duh? BB
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
Wow, Many good points. Well I was watching TV and ended up just rubbing them down with a rag and some mild cleaner and they look better. Not sure if 10 mins in walnut would have really cleaned them up enough so I just used elbow grease instead.
Thanks for all the responses.
I would probably be the one to have left them too long by accident. I meant to tumble some brass last night for about an hour and remembered about 5 hours later. Boy are they shiney!
Wow, Many good points. Well I was watching TV and ended up just rubbing them down with a rag and some mild cleaner and they look better. Not sure if 10 mins in walnut would have really cleaned them up enough so I just used elbow grease instead.
Thanks for all the responses.
I would probably be the one to have left them too long by accident. I meant to tumble some brass last night for about an hour and remembered about 5 hours later. Boy are they shiney!
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
Local hardware refinishing section,steel wool grade # 000 or #0000. Faster than a towel even one with flitz or polish. Short version Korean War erea 30-06 in strippers, tarnished ( heavily) tried tumbling and got no where, steel wool made short work of it. Just wear a pair of jersey gloves.
Local hardware refinishing section,steel wool grade # 000 or #0000. Faster than a towel even one with flitz or polish. Short version Korean War erea 30-06 in strippers, tarnished ( heavily) tried tumbling and got no where, steel wool made short work of it. Just wear a pair of jersey gloves.
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: red hawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't do it !!! DANGER!! Call a powder manfactory and ask them!!! It's NOT worth being injury or killed. </div></div>
Maybe you should tell the ammo manufacturers since they tumble their loaded rounds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: red hawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't do it !!! DANGER!! Call a powder manfactory and ask them!!! It's NOT worth being injury or killed. </div></div>
Maybe you should tell the ammo manufacturers since they tumble their loaded rounds.
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iamironman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: red hawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't do it !!! DANGER!! Call a powder manfactory and ask them!!! It's NOT worth being injury or killed. </div></div>
Maybe you should tell the ammo manufacturers since they tumble their loaded rounds. </div></div>
where did you get that little nugget? Not calling bs, just curious? What "ammo mfg" is tumbling loaded rounds? BB
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iamironman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: red hawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't do it !!! DANGER!! Call a powder manfactory and ask them!!! It's NOT worth being injury or killed. </div></div>
Maybe you should tell the ammo manufacturers since they tumble their loaded rounds. </div></div>
where did you get that little nugget? Not calling bs, just curious? What "ammo mfg" is tumbling loaded rounds? BB
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
a bunch of 223 rounds loaded by us sat around a few years
some were getting tarnished. Threw them all in a tumbler to clean em up, loaded with H335 25 gr. 55gg fmj.
over half of them were WAYYY over pressure!
Can't say for sure why but thats the same load and components
I use today only difference was tumbling.
I will never tumble loaded ammo again!
a bunch of 223 rounds loaded by us sat around a few years
some were getting tarnished. Threw them all in a tumbler to clean em up, loaded with H335 25 gr. 55gg fmj.
over half of them were WAYYY over pressure!
Can't say for sure why but thats the same load and components
I use today only difference was tumbling.
I will never tumble loaded ammo again!
Re: Tumbling Loaded Ammunition
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: justinbaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">iv tumbled thousands of loaded rounds with no problem
and here is an informal experiment thats worth reading
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/989047_...unds_in_OP.html </div></div>
Yes, a very good report. I can find no fault?
Except. This was about those particular powders in that particular case and I do not think it completely solves the question that every powder, every primer and at every loading density....is completely safe.
You know how they come up with pull dates on food and other perishables? They don't wait for a year before they open a can of peas and taste them. They put the can in an oven for a couple weeks at 700 degrees; and extrapolate the results. And then they add a comfortable safety factor based on worst case scenario. You just can't foresee every possibility and sure as hell, the one you didn't test is the one that will be the exception.
Awesome data, but not conclusive. BB
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: justinbaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">iv tumbled thousands of loaded rounds with no problem
and here is an informal experiment thats worth reading
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/989047_...unds_in_OP.html </div></div>
Yes, a very good report. I can find no fault?
Except. This was about those particular powders in that particular case and I do not think it completely solves the question that every powder, every primer and at every loading density....is completely safe.
You know how they come up with pull dates on food and other perishables? They don't wait for a year before they open a can of peas and taste them. They put the can in an oven for a couple weeks at 700 degrees; and extrapolate the results. And then they add a comfortable safety factor based on worst case scenario. You just can't foresee every possibility and sure as hell, the one you didn't test is the one that will be the exception.
Awesome data, but not conclusive. BB
