Turning my AR into a Varmiter

[cowsrbad]

I have a Rock River Arms .223, which I had previously setup all tactical. I am switching gears and wish to make it a varmiting rifle. I am having trouble with a few things right now.

1: I just bought a new scope: Nikon Coyote Special 3x9x40 BDC.
The reticle features three small circles. The circles are supposedly setup for specific drop for the 55gr .223 round (100yrs out to 400 yrds). I am having trouble keeping tight groups at only 100yrds. (being military I know this can't be since I have far smaller groups with iron sights/aimpoint. My only thought is that maybe the barrel may need replaced since it has ALOT! of rounds through it.

Any guidance on cleaning up the groups, and effectivley switching this particular gun over to be a productive varmiter would be appreciated.
Thank you

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

what ammo?

 

[cowsrbad]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

I have tried four different kinds:

-My hand loads
Hornady Varmint 55gr SP W/C

-Factory loads
Remington UMC 55gr MC

-Factory loads (Wal-mart special)
Federal 55gr

Hand loads the most accurte but still looking at almost a 6" group.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

if the scope rings are tight and all, I'd say it's time for a new barrel.... if it really has a LOT through it.... but we really have very little info from yout post... does it have a free float tube, are you getting a good cheek weld or is the scope too high... I know you say that you know it's not you since you're military, but I've watched a shit ton of Joes go from easily qualifying w/ irons to failing w/ optics, it's a different animal...

but taking everything you said on face value ( my only real choice on the internet ) put a RRA varmint upper on it and a good trigger ( if it doesn't already have one ), all you need is an upper w/o the BCG. keep the other one for dumping rounds w/ irons.

ergos, barrel, trigger, and ammo makes MOST ARs shoot sub MOA

 

[rojkoh]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntforlife</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Rock River Arms .223, which I had previously setup all tactical. I am switching gears and wish to make it a varmiting rifle. I am having trouble with a few things right now.

1: I just bought a new scope: Nikon Coyote Special 3x9x40 BDC.
The reticle features three small circles. The circles are supposedly setup for specific drop for the 55gr .223 round (100yrs out to 400 yrds). I am having trouble keeping tight groups at only 100yrds. (being military I know this can't be since I have far smaller groups with iron sights/aimpoint. My only thought is that maybe the barrel may need replaced since it has ALOT! of rounds through it.

Any guidance on cleaning up the groups, and effectivley switching this particular gun over to be a productive varmiter would be appreciated.
Thank you
</div></div>

There are a number of options for barrel replacement and on the AR it's really not hard. Personally I hate 2 Kreiger Medium grade M14 barrels sitting here, the first of which goes on an M1A for ammo testing later in the year (after I get the heck out of California). *IF* you learn to go to Brownells.com, you'll find a number of books on accurizing the AR as well as the tools. Support staff is superb. First action wrench and barrel vise I used on an M1A, I had to make. I have the Brownells tool on my work bench.

Since I didn't see the fact that it's NOT an AR,Kreiger still has a fine selection of barrels and Brownells still has the tools for it. Sorry, I missed the picture.

 

[mtrmn]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

When you say the barrel has A LOT of rounds, how many you think? I know that most can take several thousand rounds without issue unless it was shot full auto a lot or you are a benchrest shooter. Are you sandbagging this off a bench, prone, bipod? How many rounds are you shooting for groups?

A good trigger goes a long way towards good performance in my experience. I see it's RRA, does it have the 2-stage? If so it should be good to go.

I've never owned an AR I couldn't make shoot simply by working up a handload for it as long as everything else was tight. Most factory rounds other than Hornady and FGMM were 2-3" loads where my worked-up handloads would be around 1". Hornady Vmax factory loads and FGMM have always shot well in my guns. Might try a box of those.

6" groups might indicate something else wrong as stated by others-loose scope, loose barrel nut, badly fouled barrel, crown damage somehow, on and on and on. I've had badly mismatched ammo give me groups of over 7" in a vertical string. Switched to my handloads and it dropped to 1.25" in a round cluster. If you're stringing vertically with your groups, it's most likely ammo not matched to barrel. Not in the "node" as they say.

But this is the stuff I enjoy doing (yeah I'm strange that way-a mechanic by trade)--I take my "bottom-feeder" grade guns and do all sorts of work/mods/reloading to see just how well I can make them shoot with what I have at hand. I believe there are a lot of perfectly serviceable barrels and other components discarded when the real problem was simply poorly matched ammo or something loose somewhere.

If you're not into all that work or don't have the tools/work area then by all means get another upper and pin on it and your problem will PROBABLY go away. If you want to make your existing equipment work for you, it is most likely entirely possible with some time/ingenuity invested. I doubt your barrel is shot out, but I guess it's possible.

 

[cowsrbad]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

I appreciate the responses. I am the second owner. I bought it from a buddy who owned it for sometime and went shooting every weekend. (the lets see how fast we can waste a 30 rnd clip kinda shooter.) He also had the .22 cal bolt carrier for it, which also concerns me with the barrel wear. So I dont know what he has done in full, but I do know that I have fired at least 2000 rounds through it since I have had it.

While sighting in I made sure to check the sight rings because of the poor accuracy, and it feels as if body position/dynamics are in accord (as far as I know for shooting dynamics with optics). As for the rounds per set. I have been shooting three letting it sit and then three and so on and so on.

For sighting in I have been using sandbags to rest on. Eventually gonna switch to bipod. Just trying to figure things out before committing this to a varmiter VS purchasing a new rifle all together. As for the componets on the weapon I am not sure what it has for trigger, barrel, etc.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[mtrmn]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

Were you able to get the smaller groups WITH THIS GUN and iron sights? If you've shot 2k thru it you should be pretty proficient with it and I would think you'd noticed poor accuracy before now. IF that's the case, then I'd say you have trouble with the optics/mounting or something that's been done recently to/with the gun. Just tryin to help you out.

 

[cowsrbad]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

I was previously shooting an EOTECH, and just figured since it isnt a magnified optic that I would have a bit looser groups at greater distances. Now with the magnified scope and being able to hold steady on a target at 100 yrds I figured they would tighten up. With the eotech I was just sighted in at the normal military carry diagram which we use on the range, but shooting at a "300 yrd silhouette at 25 yrds" doesnt seem to compare. I see what you are saying, and thats why I was thinking that maybe at further distances the issue would be amplified, which is why I couldnt tell at 25 yrds.

I think I will try the RRA 18" EOP Varmint. If anyone else sees this, I would love to hear feedback on that particular upper.

Thanks for the help trouble shooting.

 

[Grand]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

Parallax?

 

[cowsrbad]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

No. It is not.

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

I'm in a very similar boat as I got a RRA Elite Operator 2 (super snipery) and was looking to go more to the varminter/precision route. The main reason was groups at 100yds were unimpressive at about 1.5-2moa with rare groups getting below 1moa. I had tried some hornady ammo, remington, winchester, wolf, tula, etc. but nothing high-end like Hornady match or FGMM. My barrel is a 1/9 twist 16" with around 800 rounds through it. Rifle is stock.

I was resolved to either rebarrel or buy a new upper for it. Was is the key word as when I did an OCW test I got a very promising node at 26.0gr Varget with 55gr SMKs. That group looked to be .6-.7moa which has me giddy right now waiting to test further. I might end up still getting a JP upper, but I'm not ready to write this one off either.

 

[mtrmn]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm in a very similar boat as I got a RRA Elite Operator 2 (super snipery) and was looking to go more to the varminter/precision route. The main reason was groups at 100yds were unimpressive at about 1.5-2moa with rare groups getting below 1moa. I had tried some hornady ammo, remington, winchester, wolf, tula, etc. but nothing high-end like Hornady match or FGMM. My barrel is a 1/9 twist 16" with around 800 rounds through it. Rifle is stock.

I was resolved to either rebarrel or buy a new upper for it. Was is the key word as when I did an OCW test I got a very promising node at 26.0gr Varget with 55gr SMKs. That group looked to be .6-.7moa which has me giddy right now waiting to test further. I might end up still getting a JP upper, but I'm not ready to write this one off either. </div></div>

Yes....this has been my experience every time when it was looking hopeless for a particular AR. Somewhere I would stumble across a reload that each gun prefered, and I have managed to shoot respectable groups with every AR I've messed with. (Can't say the same for my old mini14 though-nothing made that gun shoot) I will say at this point that several of my AR's are <span style="color: #FF0000">Blackthorne kit guns.</span>

If you know their reputation, then you'll realize why I keep insisting that there's hope for almost ANY name-brand AR out there.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

I've had trouble with two Nikon scopes holding zero, this past year. Do you have another scope you could try?

 

[cowsrbad]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

Cool so there is hope after all. I havent seen much about the route I am considering, so hopefully I can provide some test dummy feedback for the forum! (Hopefully Positive

) Excited none the less to see what will happen. Appreciate all the help.

 

[cowsrbad]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

I do actually. I had a cheap Simmons laying around that was almost put into action. I think I will go with the bull barrel approach, and if it fails the AR will find a new home. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rojkoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I hate 2 Kreiger Medium grade M14 barrels...
</div></div>

That puts you in a small minority of people.

 

[WKR]

Re: Turning my AR into a Varmiter

I would try a DPMS upper, they are inexpensive and very accurate, I would get a .223 or .204 24" SS bbl, I have both rifles and they are very accurate and reliable