Turning, once in a lifetime?

[gcoulsey]

I turn all my lapua brass necks to about 90% clean, and after about 5 firings annealed
them all.. I ran them thru the sonic cleaner, and out of interest decided to pass them thru the turner again. (Turner still on original setting, I keep it fixed)

I was suprised how much brass came off second time around, at least 70% shined up.

I know the brass is always flowing and moving etc etc, so was curious how often should the necks be re-turned?

I'm currently running x2 batches of 50,
one batch has had the second turning, and the other hasn't.
So far each batch is on it's 9th firing, and I havnt noticed any POI or velocity difference between them.. And I can't tell any difference with seating tension between them either, both using same bushing etc.
As far as I can tell, second turning has had no benefit.. For me.
But the first turning greatly improved consistant neck tension compared to un-turned brass.

Anyone else repeat turning their necks?
(most of this brass I have only used out to 500yrds)

giles.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

gfunkUK,

I have found this to happen as well but more so with lesser quality brass. I believe it is a cause of two things. 1) sized unfired virgin brass run through a full length sizing die with an expander ball will push thickness inconsistencies to the outside of the neck.(not necessarily consistently) 2) Fired brass that has expanded and stretched a little then had a close fitting mandrel pushed into the neck for turning will move any thickness inconsistencies to the outside as well. I have read that quite a few in the BR community will turn their neck twice like stated above or use a tight fitting mandrel once. Are you running a tight chamber or are you looking for more uniform neck tension?

 

[bohem]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

I've seen this as well, it is less noticeable when you use fireformed and neck sized brass, at least for me it was.

I don't (yet) own a rifle with a chamber that mandates neck turning before fireforming so I've always just turned them after the initial forming stage.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJ Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turning Lapua brass is for the most part a wasted effort - that's why you buy Lapua in the first place.</div></div>

Indeed... BUT in the beginning I used a redding body die, and used a lee collet die on the necks.. I wasn't happy with seating tension, even after polishing the mandrel, so I decided to try turning the necks, and soon progressed onto using a Forster bump bushing neck die, everything improved.. So that's what I have done ever since

as for virgin brass, I turn it from new, simply because I like to do all the major brass prep while the brass is still new and soft, and I can take my time and prep it all at leisure, so it's good to go when I need to load up some fresh brass for beginning a new load development or whatever.

for me, turning definately improved consistent tension.
But turning AGAIN I'm not so sure..

 

[ryanjay11]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

gfunkUK,
Which neck turner do you use?

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

If you are using a neck turner with an aluminum body, your cutting depth may be changing from heat as you turn. This could account for some of your new cuts on the brass.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

The K&M hand tool, but I chuck the cases in a battery drill.
Yes it's Alu body, but room temperature was the same.. To within a degree or two, then there's the heat from my hand holding the tool I guess...

You think those small variables would make that much difference?
My case neck micrometer gave the same readings after turning the second time, as when I originally turned them.
But I didn't measure them before I turned the second time..

I only did it out of idle curiosity, so at the time I was only briefly checking neck thickness.
I didn't know if the annealing process would have anything to do with it?

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LR-WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gfunkUK,

I have found this to happen as well but more so with lesser quality brass. I believe it is a cause of two things. 1) sized unfired virgin brass run through a full length sizing die with an expander ball will push thickness inconsistencies to the outside of the neck.(not necessarily consistently) 2) Fired brass that has expanded and stretched a little then had a close fitting mandrel pushed into the neck for turning will move any thickness inconsistencies to the outside as well. I have read that quite a few in the BR community will turn their neck twice like stated above or use a tight fitting mandrel once. Are you running a tight chamber or are you looking for more uniform neck tension?</div></div>

sorry mate I missed your post,
both times I turned, I ran the case over the k&m expandiron befor turning, with the intention of forcing the variable thickness to the o.d yes.
(no expander/sizing button on the Forster bushing neck die)

And it's a factory chamber, I just wanted to improve neck consistency yes.

Giles.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

the heat on the cutter generated from cutting - friction

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the heat on the cutter generated from cutting - friction</div></div>

Sorry, with you reffering to the body I was thinking of my hand warming the body etc lol,
the cutter heating up would cause a deeper cut from expansion correct?
I did have that in mind a little whilst doing the job, so I turned a case, then did all the other prep to the case before moving on to the next to try and prevent too much heat build up.. And periodically touched the cutter to my lips to check it wasn't getting too hot or anything.

Do carbide cutters prevent any heat expansion?

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the heat on the cutter generated from cutting - friction </div></div>

It's actually the heat from the mandrel you want to keep in check. Use a good lubricant and you'll be fine with the routine you have going. Most of the cutting bits are carbide, don't believe I've ever seen an aluminum cutter bit not to say there aren't any.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

Used imp-wax on the mandrel, and ran them thru the sonic cleaner again after all prep etc, to get rid of wax from inside necks.

It's a lot of bloody work second time around, good job we like reloading so much eh?

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

I use a little Hornady One Shot spray lube in a little cap. I wet the end of a cotton swab and touch it to the spinning mandrel every second or third case. Works like a charm, no wipe out or clean up needed. It dries away with no film and wont contaminate powder charges.

 

[DocB]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

Giles,

I've seen it, especially on .243 cases fired twenty times. Did it pretty much the same way you did with the same tools, lube, but not drill. What I found was the thin side got a little thinner, and the thick side was uneven.

Don't use a drill, since it heats up the cutter, mandrel and the body way too fast. You'll end up with thick necks on the first ones or when you start back up if you stop to take a break.

HTH,
DocB

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

I run the drill on very low speed, I can't imagine trying to do it with the hand tool, even the inside flashhole uniformer makes my hand sore after about 30 cases lol. (I have a socket to fit that now).

How long do these cutters last anyhow? How many cases before I need to think about ordering a replacement?

 

[bohem]

Re: Turning, once in a lifetime?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gfunkUK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long do these cutters last anyhow? How many cases before I need to think about ordering a replacement? </div></div>

Unless you damage it by dropping it and it chips or something like that, you'll likely never wear it out hand turning brass. Brass machines easily and carbide is extremely hard and durable for cutting tools. It's brittle though, hence the warning about dropping the tool onto a hard surface.