Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

[Guest]

I live in a town close to where this occurred.

There is quite a bit of history here about the famous Lacrosse Speed Trap.

When they first began running this racket, and that's exactly what it is, the posted speed limit was 35 MPH.
Traffic exits off I85 heading Eastbound on 58. They pass through a short section of restaurants and convenience stores and strip malls. Then it's back what most would consider rural 4 lanes.

After a lot of complaining from citizens, and the neighboring town's chief writing the Lacrosse cop a ticket for blocking a crossover, the limits have been raised to 50.

You can hardly go through this short stretch of highway without seeing a car pulled over by these guys.

A couple of years ago, it was disclosed that this town projected over 50% of its annual revenues to be derived from traffic citations. Obviously, that puts tremendous pressure on the cops to write citations.

As with any busy corridor speedtrap, the underlying premise is that most tickets will go uncontested and the fines are mailed in or paid online.... cha-ching, cha-ching.

It would appear that Barney has recently stopped someone who was quite prepared to challenge his little money machine and make a complete fool of the poor cop in the process.

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[Maggot]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

Interestingm Tucker. Im really sruprised that the officer would go along with that. I should think he could get in trouble. Do you know the outcome.

 

[Guest]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

According to the video, the court case is in March.
I'd like to see a class-action against them to reverse any tickets issued as a result of pacing.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

http://www.trafficticketsecrets.com/state-traffic-laws.html

 

[Guest]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.trafficticketsecrets.com/state-traffic-laws.html </div></div>

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

thanks for the information on the speed trap. I have to say that the Police Officer was more then patient. He was getting upset at first at filming then he lightened up and just went with it. Kind of a decent interaction between Police and public.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

Did I miss the part of the driver's video where he taped his speedometer before he got pulled over?

 

[fpdsniper]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

Some interesting observations here. First of all, it's completely wrong for a city to derive that kind of revenue through traffic citations. Forces the police officers to write lots of tickets to justify keeping their jobs. In Illinois, our traffic citation fines go to the state, we get nothing. I still expect my guys to write tickets to those that deserve them, but we have no "quotas" per se.

As far as using a derogatory term like "Barney" against an officer just trying to do his job, I believe that's a bit uncalled for. He's expected to write tickets for revenue as part of his job, but that's not his fault. He was very courteous and went out of way to explain things that he didn't have too. (We are not required to "conduct court" on the side of the road. That's why we have courts) I also didn't see this officer made a "complete fool" at all? You're taking the suspected offenders word for it that he had his cruise set at 50 at the time of the violation. I'm not saying he was or wasn't speeding, but he certainly did NOT prove anything. Having said that, if I were the officer in the encounter, I would have seriously considered not writing the citation. Then again, I wasn't there, so I'm just going off what I saw in these video's.

Goldie- I'm interested to know why you think the officer did something that would get him in trouble?

 

[Phylodog]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

I've managed to average less than one traffic ticket per year since I've been on the department. I don't like them, never have. The tickets I've written have been very well deserved and in most instances were in lieu of a trip to jail.

I feel for officers who are pressured to write "x" number of tickets per shift/week/month. An officer's activity can be gauged by the number of arrests that officer makes which stem from traffic stops if he keeps his eyes open and gets his bullshit meter calibrated.

I agree with fpdsniper and feel that officer was very patient, much more than I. No one is videotaping because they want to look back upon that moment fondly. I would have asked that it be turned off and if he refused the discussion would have been over. I can't force him to turn it off but I don't have to stand there and be taped answering questions either.

 

[Guest]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

By the end of the second of video, the officer was offering up all kinds of possible reasons that the ticket may not be justified. Going along with the driver's experiment was both unnecessary and foolhardy. He helped the driver solidify his defense by both raising doubt in his own abilities and equipment and by verifying that the driver's cruise control was functioning properly.

Lacrosse is a tiny town, about the size of Mayberry. I don't think they even have a bank there anymore.

They employee a police chief and two full time officers, I believe.
ALL they do is work traffic in their little money trap.

Their antics give the area a bad rap and make travelers want to avoid it like a plague. That's detrimental to businesses which thrive on the East-West-North-South intersection of I85 and US 58.

I have no problems with them writing tickets for speeding when RADAR indicates the case is solid, but this business of pacing is a joke.

 

[Guest]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

Pacing is not a joke. It does work, regardless of your feelings for it. Our speedometers are calibrated quarterly, just for that reason.

The officer was much more patient than 99.9% of officers would have been. My average traffic contact (and I do a hell of a lot of em), lasts 6-7 minutes, regardless of cooperation or not. In that time, I can tell if I need to dig deeper or just deliver the mail and get on with my day.

Ive had video cameras pulled on me once. Just act like they arent there. Sign here by the X.

As FPD said, I dont argue on the side of the road.

I dont see that the guy did anything wrong, other than let someone he stopped dictate the flow of the stop. Id dock a rookie's DOR for that shit.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

I got caught in a speed trap in a little town north of Amirillo, TX several years ago. Estimated town population 600 to 1000. 100 yards out of town there was a 45 MPH sign. 50 yards later ...BEHIND A SMALL TREE that covered the sign was a 30 MPH sign with a city cop across the road and down in an alley. Out of state plates, rental car, out of state license. $385 to some judges retirement fund.

 

[Guest]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

Pacing....
The guy drove through a green light passing by the cop, who was stopped at the intersection.
Within a half mile, the cop caught up to the driver, leveled his speed, paced the speed, and pulled the driver over for running 64 in a 50.

Without onboard video, showing speed and time, pacing no more than one man's word against another's.

I can guarantee you that the cops was out of his jurisdiction when the motorist first went by him. This is something that the neighboring town's PD have repeatedly addressed with Lacrosse officers.
Lacrosse is so tiny that they only have about a mile of the highway in their corporate limits. By the time they get caught up to alleged speeder, they're already in South Hill.

They typically pull their prey in the parking lots of South Hill restaurants and businesses.

Would you stop at an Applebees in a strange town when there's a police car with flashing blue lights in the parking lot?
I wouldn't.

 

[Guest]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

You dont have to be IN your jurisdiction to make a stop, just have to have witnessed the offense within your jurisdiction. This is a common misconception that people have.

As far as location of the stop (relating to businesses in the area), I dont give a good goddamn about em. If I have business to conduct with a motorist, I'll conduct it where I please. I dont mind business parking lots at all. Safer than on the side of the highway for me.

 

[jday]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

I agre shag, he was more patient than I've ever been and I don't expect them to like getting a ticket and all, but roadside is dangerous enough and we don't have to conduct court there. Thats why we set a date for em. We don't have to get sigs either on regular citations/infractions, unless it's a misd. etc. So explain, smile, and don't forget to buckle up.
I think the "pacing" thing here is a little questionable though, and if I was just looking for resaonable suspc. to stop, then I might of used it, but with a warning in the end most likely. I always like to remind them, that I get paid to go to court also, and they don't!

 

[Guest]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

In this case, I agree, pacing in such a short area is a little odd...especially when he had radar in his unit. But, the idea that it doesnt work, is simply asanine.

 

[1943m1garand]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

Speeding tickets in VA are a total racket. VA officers will write a ticket no matter the circumstances for any infraction. This is also to the best of my knowledge the only state in the country where radar detectors are outlawed.

I'd say overall there is not a good relationship between the police and citizens in Va. I come from a family with several LEO(s), including my father who did part-time work. I always thought the best of police until I moved to Virginia. For example, about six years ago I was pulled over for a broken tail lamp. Actually the bulb was working but someone has smashed the lens that very day. Anyway he called for backup, including the canine unit, and questioned me for 15 minutes.

Funny thing was I was in my 3rd year of law school and taking criminal procedure that semester. Knowing your rights in always helpful.

 

[Phylodog]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pacing....

Without onboard video, showing speed and time, pacing no more than one man's word against another's.

I can guarantee you that the cops was out of his jurisdiction when the motorist first went by him. </div></div>

I don't know how the law is written in VA but here in Indiana traffic violations are a civil infraction and not a violation of the criminal code. All that is required for a guilty verdict by the judge is a "good faith belief" of the officer that an infraction has occurred. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is not required for civil infractions so neither is a radar detector or video.

I can't speak to VA about jurisdictions but here when you graduate from the law enforcement academy your legal authority/obligation covers all areas of the state. Department policy can set boundaries on where you patrol while on duty but officers have the authority to make arrests (are obligated for felonies) statewide.

Not arguing about this specific case, if what was described by the guy with the camera is true the pacing seems suspect. Pacing is a valid method for determining speed when done correctly however.

 

[858]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Without onboard video, showing speed and time, pacing no more than one man's word against another's.</div></div>

Police officers are calibrated once a month not to lie.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

And what about contractors? They're the worst...

 

[kcbird]

Re: Unarmed Cop in a Battle of Wits

The cruise control being set proves nothing. You set the cruise at 50 mph push the accelerator down speed up to 64 in this case. You see the officer hit the brakes and stop. Unless you push the off button on the cruise control setting your cruise is still set at 50 mph. Cruise control doesn’t restrict the vehicle from speeding up it restricts it from going under the set speed. And this officer shouldn’t let violators run his stop for him.