Unsolicitated range feedback

[Pester]

I have been looking for a new build and struggling over the move from 308 to ?????

In my last range trip(a rare occurance for me) I was trying to get info from folks there for caliber and optics. I was sort of settled in on the .260/6.5/6.0 choices when Johnny 'Let me tell you what you need to be shooting and why' Expert came up and told me he had heard me talking with others at the 300yd line and they were full of crap. His unsolicitated feedback was that I would be a fool if I went with anything other than a 300 wm.

These days most of my shooting is paper and varmint. Seems like .260/6.5/6.0 group would be the place to focus my decision on however am I missing something based on Johnny Experts unsolicitated feedback?

Thanks folks...

 

[meyersa88]

7mm calibers are worth looking into especially with Berger coming out with a 195 gr bullet that will be on par with your 230 gr and 300 gr in .308 and .338 respectively.

 

[QuietShootr]

Unsolicited range input drives me up a wall.

 

[Fuerte]

Check this out:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-precision-rifle-equipment-what-pros-use.html

 

[fdkay]

The .260 and 6.5 CM match the .300 WM on exterior ballistics (not energy or terminal ballistics). Drop and wind deflection are very close with recoil that is a fraction of the recoil of the .300 wm.
The 6.5 SAUM beats the .300WM in exterior ballistics with longer barrel life.

On a long action, the .280AI is very hard to beat.

Your bubba with the unsolicited recommendation does not stay current (there was a time when the .300WM WAS the answer).
If you want to have a nice, enjoyable time at the range, shooting without the need for a muzzle break, then the 6.5 or 7's are your answer.
The 6's shoot very well, but tend to run high pressures with very short barrel life.

 

[Pester]

Thanks folks.

After his feedback I came to learn that he is a true expert in the field as he makes high end actions. And last year he was one of the best open water captians going all up and down the west coast on his yacht. And before that he was a internationally trained martial arts expert. Glad I paid for that advice.....even if it was just 20 min of my life I will never get back.

Still trying to decide on caliber. 260, 6.5 cm, and maybe into the 243, 6 cm. Not sure I can go too far wrong with any of them so likely component avail and reloading skill will make the determination....along with the smiths recommendation.

Scopes are seeming to be a tougher choice.

 

[6Dasher]

Berger will not put out the 195. Don't get your hopes up or hold off a project just for this bullet.

 

[jashmore1234]

I have been looking for a new build and struggling over the move from 308 to ?????

In my last range trip(a rare occurance for me) I was trying to get info from folks there for caliber and optics. I was sort of settled in on the .260/6.5/6.0 choices when Johnny 'Let me tell you what you need to be shooting and why' Expert came up and told me he had heard me talking with others at the 300yd line and they were full of crap. His unsolicitated feedback was that I would be a fool if I went with anything other than a 300 wm.

These days most of my shooting is paper and varmint. Seems like .260/6.5/6.0 group would be the place to focus my decision on however am I missing something based on Johnny Experts unsolicitated feedback?

Thanks folks...

Anytime someone speaks in absolutes, ignore their advice. A good gun smith could take any caliber you listed and build a shooter around it. Pick a caliber that meets your requirements, then have a rifle built around it.

Then start saving for a rifle in one of the other calibers. They are like pringles, you just can't have one.

 

[Mr_Happyface]

Berger will not put out the 195. Don't get your hopes up or hold off a project just for this bullet.

Wait, what?

Didn't Litz say they were going to at shot? I'm really hoping they do!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The .260 and 6.5 CM match the .300 WM on exterior ballistics (not energy or terminal ballistics). Drop and wind deflection are very close with recoil that is a fraction of the recoil of the .300 wm.

I'm not saying the OP needs a 300WM since he mentioned nothing about the distances he will be shooting but I would like to clarify that this statement isn't true in the least bit. With a bullet with a horrible BC maybe, but with a good bullet (208 Amax, 210, 215, 230 Bergers) the 300WM beats them up and takes their lunch money. The further out you get the better the 300WM's ballistics are compared to the others. Run the numbers for the .743 BC 230gr bullet at 2800-2900fps, you'll be singing a different tune.

 

[mdmp5]

Wait, what?

Didn't Litz say they were going to at shot? I'm really hoping they do!

People have been holding their breath for that bullet since berger announced it in early 2012. With the current component backlogs, I'm sure it is a project that has taken the back seat for some time. There really is a small variety of 7mm bullets to shoot, and it would be nice to see something new.

 

[practical]

Hi

Ive just got a great rifle in .260 sorted after shooting 308, for the last 7 years, I still have a 308 in a hunting rifle but i can see it coming out less and less now i have my .260.

Ive had alot of unsolicited advice and most of it has ranged from "why do you want to shoot that you should have got a a ......" and then launch into telling me the bullsh!t ballistic details.

I nod and smile and say well i just wanted one- no one can argue with that - "I just wanted a .260 "

I have had some requested advice from close /respected friends - in theory i don't need another caliber then 308- true, and the rifle i bought in 260 chambered for 308 would be a fantastic gun as well- true, and i have to reload with this caliber i have no easily found shop ammo- true . But logic stops because i go back to "I just fancy a .260 -heard good things".

Your money your choice, barrels are changeable!

 

[6Dasher]

The 195 berger will pose a few problems, IF it is ever made. The long bullet will require a 8.5 twist at least. With that twist and long barrels (f-class) I know bullets will start to give out when you push them hard. Had a 8.25tw 34" barrel that fried Bergers, Sierras and anything I fed them. Shooting at 3250fps with N570 would get the first 10 on paper, and then start throwing them left and right as the barrel/bullet got so hot it melted the jacket off the core (like the berger thin-jacket problem a few year ago); even the SMKs so not trying to shove this onto Berger. The 195 is super on paper, but on or over the limits in practice IMHO. I see more hope in the .30 230H class bullets. Looking at these two ballistically, fired at the same speed, the .30 230H has the advantage over the 195.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

It is a sad individual who attempts to justify his own purchase decision with the money of others. I get range advise like that whenever I go to the range. Guess what, I rarely go to the public ranges. I only go to the desert behind my house or the competitions. That is real world performance that I can write in my log book.

Meanwhile, I like your thinking OP in getting information before making a decision. Even though I shoot all of my competitions with a .308 Winchester, I would recommend a 6mm or 6.5mm cartridge. When I wear out my barrel, I will be switching to something in that caliber for sure.

Let us know what you eventually end up getting.

 

[AIAW]

I would tell you the same thing in person after I hopped up from my prone position, ran over to your firing position, finger banged your rifle and scope turrets, then proceeded to chug what was left out of your Gatorade bottle. Well, then I would probably proceed to tell you that you need a 20mm Lahti to get hits on 24" steels at 300 yards.

Seriously though, overall I think you are on the right track with your thoughts.

If you are just shooting paper or varmints and you are a reloader, sticking with 308 Winchester brass will open you up to a world of possible calibers (of course if you have dies and a barrel to match): .243 Win., .260 Rem., 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, 6.5x47 Lapua, .338 Federal. Sure, 300WM is going to have a flatter trajectory, deliver a ridiculous amount of energy and provide less wind deflection overall... You can shoot a .260 all day long with about 1/3 of the cost, and a very decent trajectory under 1200 yards at regular to warmer velocities.

In summary, if you need energy delivery then stick with the magnum. If just paper and critters, any of the calibers that utilize 308 as a parent case would be beneficial in the long run. The original post didn't list anticipated distances, so I think if you sit down with a ballistics calculator and play around with all of the calibers mentioned in this thread using factory ammo specs it might help you determine what you yourself expect (and most importantly, what you require) out of a particular cartridge.

 

[Scimitar]

build one of each...
I love the 260 Rem and 7mm08. In a short action they will give you some distance over a 308 without breaking the shoulder or the bank. If you want Long Distance and may need to rely on purchased ammo, then 300 WM is not a bad choice. 208 Amax and 300 Win Mag is a hell of a combination. Specially if you decide you want to smack some bigger critters at
long range with it. I shoot a lot of 7WSM. I love that cartridge. But, if it came to buying ammo to run it on, instead of me loading it, I would not pick it.
What may you want to do with this rifle in the future, you loading everything for it, buying ammo, small animal hunting, large? Let those questions at least help guide your choice
and it may help you from doing this twice. or three times.

 

[scimitar2]

Just like everything else in this world, the mission drives the gear and everyone's opinion is not equal. Based on what you have said your mission is, you seem to be on the same track, I would go with for the reasons stated above. The important question I always ask when someone gives advice (solicited or not) is WHY they are recommending something. Their response to "why" generally gives me a feel for where they are coming from, their expertise and whether I am going to take their advice to heart, or discard it out of hand.

 

[AIAW]

build one of each...
I love the 260 Rem and 7mm08. In a short action they will give you some distance over a 308 without breaking the shoulder or the bank. If you want Long Distance and may need to rely on purchased ammo, then 300 WM is not a bad choice. 208 Amax and 300 Win Mag is a hell of a combination. Specially if you decide you want to smack some bigger critters at
long range with it. I shoot a lot of 7WSM. I love that cartridge. But, if it came to buying ammo to run it on, instead of me loading it, I would not pick it.
What may you want to do with this rifle in the future, you loading everything for it, buying ammo, small animal hunting, large? Let those questions at least help guide your choice
and it may help you from doing this twice. or three times.

Just like everything else in this world, the mission drives the gear and everyone's opinion is not equal. Based on what you have said your mission is, you seem to be on the same track, I would go with for the reasons stated above. The important question I always ask when someone gives advice (solicited or not) is WHY they are recommending something. Their response to "why" generally gives me a feel for where they are coming from, their expertise and whether I am going to take their advice to heart, or discard it out of hand.

I have to ask... Are you guys long lost brothers reunited in a single thread

 

[scimitar2]

I have to ask... Are you guys long lost brothers reunited in a single thread

Either that, or the worst hidden troll accounts ever!

And here I was hoping that someone with the account name of "Scimitar the Third" or some such awesomeness would spout off next and keep things rolling...

Either way, sound advice from the two Scimtar's and the others in this thread.

Cheers!

 

[Pester]

Thanks for the input and I have been trying a few more rifles last night. My choices seem to be coming down to .260, 6.5cm, 6.5x47 and 7saum (although thats the only 7 I have gotten behind). I do reload but its been mostly pistol rounds so the nuances of rifle rounds will require time to get down and equip to buy.

Not trying to drop an elk at 1,100 but am interested in pucning paper at that distance(most likely 500-1,000) so I am leaning towards something with a better BC than my current 168 308.

I have been reading a lot of the comparison threads here so given that I want a flat shooter, one that bucks the wind, wont beat me up, reaonable barrel life and is pretty easy to reload what do I gain/lose by going out of the 6.5's into the 7's? Not wanting to start a war here and I am leaning towards the .260, 6.5cm etc so let me know if you think I am missing an opportunity.

And any issue with running a 24' barrel rather than 26?

Got a hall pass from my wife so I am headed to the range this Sat and will try to get more time behind others rifles to get some hands on experience.

SO.......to all of you who are at the range when someone asks you for your advice I want to thank you for helping them. Without that level of generosity in the distance shooting community I, for one, would be making less of an informed decision.

 

[6Dasher]

24 vs 26" is a non issue, you loose 15-25fps per inch. If you only do paper punching and less dragging it around, a longer barrel will help buck the wind some more. It's always a compromise. I like longer barrels myself as I only do prone static shooting, not running around a Sniper's Hide Cup or anything like that

The 7s mean going with the 175/180gr bullets. You'll need to have a larger case to win from the 6/6.5s, which means more recoil. The 6x47 with a 105H at 3150 is about equal to a 7mm 180VLD at 2700fps (7-08 case). To get any kind of advantage you would need something like the .284 case (long action) to get it to 2850fps. Barrel life is shorter than the 6.5x47/CM, more powder being burned. Again, a compromise.

 

[EventHorizon]

Look into the 30-06. Good LR qualities, can be dialed up or down in regards to recoil and readily available components. If/when I get a long action it'll be a 30-06. There's a great thread on the 30-06 which will give you a thorough pros-cons.

 

[clmayfield]

Not trying to drop an elk at 1,100 but am interested in pucning paper at that distance(most likely 500-1,000) so I am leaning towards something with a better BC than my current 168 308.

If the 168gr is a SMK, it will not go to 1,000 consistently. You can get there with different bullets, but you do have to push it in 308. In caliber selection, you end up with a tradeoff between barrel life, ballistics, and knockdown power. You didn't mention the size of the varmints, on smaller ones, 30 cal is probably not necessary. In a short action, the 6.5's (.260, .65cm, 6.5X47 Lapua) will get to 1,000 pretty easily and not burn up barrels too quickly (though they are a bit worse on a barrel than a 308). In the same case, the 7mm-08 is not a bad choice. It offers a little more knockdown power, but again, depending on how far away and how big the varmints are, that is probably not concerning. Barrel life may be a but better than the 6.5's but ballistics probably a tad worse in this size case. Recoil will be better in all of these than the 308.

If you go into a long action, the 30-06 is not a bad choice. It will go to 1,000 and offers outstanding knockdown power and great barrel life (about equivalent to 308). Ballistics will be a little worse than the 6.5's in a short case. Once you are in that case size, you can think about the 284 WIN (which can be run in a short action, but that limits your bullet selection), or a 280 Rem, which is a 30-06 necked down to a 7mm bullet. The best cartridge for piercing paper at 1,000 is probably the 6.5-284, but it is a barrel burner.

If you don't reload, 30-06 might be the best choice as a step up from 308. If people would just standardize around a 6.5mm cartridge, there would be wide availability of ammo. If you do reload, then any of these are good choices. As a general rule, as you step down the bullet diameter, ballistics increase and barrel life decreases. I didn't get into the 6mm bullets (like 243) because of barrel life, but if you shoot infrequently or don't mind getting rebarreled a lot, the 243 is a good option.