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Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

Niles Coyote

Niles Coyote

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    • Aug 13, 2007
    4,801
    1,915
    South West, MI
    #1
    Questioning what bullet weights will work with its 9.125" twist (not 100% sure if it’s a 9.125" or 9.25" but I believe I read its 9.125 somewhere). Bryan Litz's data shows Berger 87vld & 95vld should work but any one try 105 bergers or 105 a-max in this rifle before. Those two look questionable in stability...
    confused.gif


    If you have tried these in a factory Remington barrel (I believe it is the same twist in all 243's Remington makes)I would like to hear from you and your experience, also at what ASL you were shooting at.
    sick.gif

     
    #3
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'s

    My personal results at ASL 950 & 70F. I'm still testing but these are some of the best from different pills I've gotten so far.

    LH SPS varmint 9.125 twist 26" factory barrel

    70g Sierra#1505: .247 MOA @ 100 yards Avg Sp 3124
    100g Sierra#1560: .280 MOA @ 100 yards Avg Sp NA
    107g Sierra#1570: .581 MOA @ 100 yards Avg Sp 2896

    RH SPS varmint 9.125 twist 26" factory barrel

    100g Sierra#1560: .402 MOA @ 100 yards Avg Sp 2984 *
    (not the exact load - since they performed differently)

    p.s. there were a number of pills (including 105's) and various loads I tested that didn't work for me. I posted just some of what I've managed to seem to work so far.
     
    #4
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'s

    Thanks for the real word performance guys, I was tooling around with JBM's stability calculator some and it looks like those two 105’s <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> work on warm summer days...

    I am looking at a SPS varmint 26” here locally with an ok price tag. If nothing else I can still best my 308's performance with berger 95's, 87’s and with hornady 87 v-max it is almost the same in the wind as my 308 w/175's, just a lot less elevation needed. I guess if I buy it and 105's don’t work I can always burn the barrel out shooting 95's
    laugh.gif
     
    #6
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'

    My remington sps 700 243 win in a mcmillan A1 stock 87gr Vmax Imr 4064 win brass win primer. And a shitty assed NIKON scope that wouldnt track. Long before I knew about ladder tests. I'm sure it would be a much better group if I developed a better load I think it was around 37.5 grs. Plus it was about 10 mph winds.
    600yrds.

    IMAG0136.jpg
     
    #7
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'

    At one time Sierra 70g's were winning 600 yard competitions. Not sure what's winning currently, but I've always have liked Sierra, and Hornady's.

    I think reloading makes a huge difference also.
     
    #8
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'

    Mine liked 85 to 95g pills with the factory bbl. I've since rebarreled with a 10 twist 243AI that likes 75 to 90's. Can't shoot 95's under 1moa. Currently shooting 90g 3200fps under 4"groups @ 500. H414, R19, and IMR 4350 have produced good results. I'm about to spin on a 8 twist to shoot 105's to see how I like them cause beyond 500 the wind really moves these little pills. I believe the 105's buck the wind much better.
     
    #11
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'

    Researching your question, I checked the Sierra site, and they state that their 107gr MatchKing requires a 1:8" or maybe even a 1:7" rifling twist.

    My suspicion is that bullet manufacturers will tend to be highly conservative regarding stability of their bullets intended for handloading purposes. They cannot control barrel lengths and muzzle velocities, so they thed to make their recommendation based on worst case scanarios.

    The tip-off here is the 'varmint' designation appended to your rifle's production barrel. In general, varmint shooters favor higher velocity and employ the lighter weight bullets that can be driven faster. Consquently, they also tend to run slower rifling twists in varmint shooting purosed barrels.

    For the .243, I believe this leaves the average factory rifle buyer with a rifle that's optimized for lighter weight bullets. This is one of the reasons why I passed over the .243 and opted for the .260. I believe the .260's commonly assigned 1:8" twist is very suitible for bullet weights thet serve better at longer range. I also believe the .243 bore diameter is just a bit smaller than optimal for best efficiency with the .308 parent case's capacity.

    If you handload, I believe the .260 is better suited than the .243 for extreme distances.

    Greg
     
    #12
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'

    Niles, About 30 years ago I had a Rem. 700 BDL Varmint in .243 and it was a tack driver with 42.5 grs of IMR 4350, CCI 200 primer behind a 87 gr. Hornady Spire Point bullet. 100 yard, 1/2 inch groups were common. The gun and ammo shot better than I could hold.

    Now have a new Rem. 700 SPS varmint also in .243. Had to junk the factory stock for a H-S precision. The H-S was a perfect drop-in fit. The new stock reduced my group size by at least 1/2. Tried some 95 grain Nosler and 95 gr.Hornady bullets with Hogdon 4350, CCI 200 primers, and they were okay to very good. The results were not consistent. Was it me or the ammo? Don't know. I am now shooting the 87 gr. Hornady Spire point bullet again and am experimenting with the Hornady 87 gr. V-Max bullets. Results so far are very good. Using 42.5 gr. IMR 4350 and CCI 200 primers, 100 yd groups are in the .5" to .75" range. The inconsistency is my fault not the gun or ammo. While handloading, I weigh every charge.

    Both of my guns shot best with the square base bullet. Neither of my Rem. 700's liked boat tail bullets. Using brass and primers from different manufacturers seemed to have little effect on accuracy. Using different powders had a huge effect on accuracy-many flyers and inconsistent groups.

    I have no immediate interest in shooting bullets heavier than 95 gr. so I am unable to provide any info on these loads.

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
     
    #14
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'s

    I don't have the varmint version, but my 9.125 twist SPS shoots the 105 gr a-maxes very well (1/2 MOA). Loaded with 47.0 gr Retumbo, Lapua brass, CCI 200, and seated .02 off the lands (2.284 to the ogive). I also shoot the 85 gr HPBT gameking over 36.0 gr IMR 4064 with 1/2 MOA results or better. The 85 gr.'ers start to fall off around 700 yards, but the a-maxes have been good all the way out to 960 yards. 100 gr. gamekings have also shot around a 1/2 MOA over 36.0 gr IMR 4064 with Federal 210 GMM primers. When I switched to CCI 200's, they opened up a little so I'm tinkering with powder charges now.

    I've been testing loads with the 95 gr SMK and 100 gr Berger target, but have yet to find anything sub MOA. I was beginning to wonder if they're just too long and skinny for my gun to stabilize.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brandon05_88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2657771#Post2657771

    My rifle likes the 95 SMK. Never tried to 105 A-max though.
    I shoot anywhere from 575' ASL to 2,600' ASL. 20*F up to 100*F and not a problem. My load isn't the hottest by any means.
    95 SMK @ 2,950 fps
    43.0 gr H4831
    Lapua brass
    CCI BR2 </div></div>
    How far off the lands are you seating those 95's?
     
    #15
    Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    I ended up making the purchase and got some 105 A-Max & Berger VLD’s thrown into the deal. I am pushing these out right around 2890ish with H1000 with the better performing loads at 100y. Armed with my crono data I printed out some drop charts for a 1k adventure.

    First shot down the barrel was at 600y and I was rewarded a hit perfect in elevation and only 1/10th off my wind hold... held to much, I have been shooting only 308's and 223's until now... My second and third shot's made a nice 1/2 moa group. I then dialed my drop for 1000y and this was the result!

    105 VLD 3 shots ~7" (second shot was hard to see but its dead center in the funky orange)
    243001.jpg


    105 A-Max 4 shots 3 in 9" 4th opened it up to 18" not sure what happened...
    243002-1.jpg


    So the 105 are difinitely stable from the 9.125” twist Remington puts in these, all the way down to a muzzle velocity of 2720ish which was where I first started my load development with H1000.

    Accuracy has been great with many loads cutting less than an inch at 100y. I did however ditch the plastic stock before ever firing a round. It was not made to free float the barrel. Its current configuration is a HS PSS stock, DNZ low one piece mount (I am really liking these) holding one of my NF 3.5-15-50's

    243phototest004.jpg

    My drops in mil

    Amax= 3.6/600 & 8.7/1000

    VLD= 3.5/600 & 8.3/1000

    I can touch the lands with the A-Max if I want to and still be mag friendly, that gives me a OAL around 2.81” however the Berger’s require jumping but with the above 1000y shoots it seems to handle that well.
     
    #18
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    I witnessed the 105s shooting well on hot days, but not as good on cold days. I was not the shooter. Also, consider flatbase vs boattail. I've got the SPS V in 223 & 243. Both HATE boattails. They love flatbase bullets. So take that for what its worth. I've posted a topic on this site that must've ruffled some feathers concerning that issue, but its true. There are a lot of factory rifles that don't shoot BTs well at all.

    I'm basically giving up on the 95 SMKs too. Some days ok, some days pitiful. The 100gr Sierra #1540 Pro Hunter is very "boring." Not flashy, not high-tech sexy, but it never fails for me. If I go long...I just arch it out there more. I like predictability. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
     
    #19
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Great thread. I have a 1-9 243 on order and I hope to shoot the 105's. I was starting to think maybe a 1-8. This gives me some confidence that I chose right.
     
    #20
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    1 in 8 is awesome for 105 and heavier. 1 in 9 seems to be more versatile. I think thats why Rem made the decision to capitalize on the 1 in 9.125 twist. Versatility is very important to me. From memory, aren't the 105 A-max for target only???
     
    #22
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Wow! I just traded an AR for a new SPS V in .243, slapped on a B&C Light Tac., and figured I'd shoot deer at 3-400yds until the barrel was gone, but with groups like this, I think I'm gonna mt the Weaver Tac. 3-15x50 FFp, and try some 105's at some distance. I just shot a .347" @ 100 with factory 80's from Winchester, it's off to the bench! Awesome thread guys.
     
    #23
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Ive shot 105 AMAXs, HPBTs, 105 Hybrids, 95 VLDs in my 6mm Rem (rem factory) with no issues whatsoever, AMAXs have shot best out to 600 yds but that was on a calm day, hybrids and Hornady HPBTs have a nice low vertical dispersion, just need to work on shooting in the wind.
     
    #24
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Keep this going guys, I bought my dad a sps-v and 200 105 amaxs' just need to get a few more things for it. Got a manners t5a for it and hopefully I will have better insite when its all put together. I sure hope it does good. This thread is giving me hope. Thanks guys
     
    #25
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'s

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boudin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have the varmint version, but my 9.125 twist SPS shoots the 105 gr a-maxes very well (1/2 MOA). Loaded with 47.0 gr Retumbo, Lapua brass, CCI 200, and seated .02 off the lands (2.284 to the ogive). I also shoot the 85 gr HPBT gameking over 36.0 gr IMR 4064 with 1/2 MOA results or better. The 85 gr.'ers start to fall off around 700 yards, but the a-maxes have been good all the way out to 960 yards. 100 gr. gamekings have also shot around a 1/2 MOA over 36.0 gr IMR 4064 with Federal 210 GMM primers. When I switched to CCI 200's, they opened up a little so I'm tinkering with powder charges now.

    I've been testing loads with the 95 gr SMK and 100 gr Berger target, but have yet to find anything sub MOA. I was beginning to wonder if they're just too long and skinny for my gun to stabilize.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brandon05_88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2657771#Post2657771

    My rifle likes the 95 SMK. Never tried to 105 A-max though.
    I shoot anywhere from 575' ASL to 2,600' ASL. 20*F up to 100*F and not a problem. My load isn't the hottest by any means.
    95 SMK @ 2,950 fps
    43.0 gr H4831
    Lapua brass
    CCI BR2 </div></div>
    How far off the lands are you seating those 95's?

    I ended up finding the sweet spot for me by accident. Loaded 95 SMK to 2.800 for mag length feeding, .050-.065 jump, 40.5gr H4350, Win brass & primers, hail Mary...
    </div></div>
     
    #26
    Re: Looking at a 243 Remington sps varmint with ?'s

    I have Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x mounted on a Savage model 11GCNS. bedded, free floated and a rifle basix trigger, in .243 with a game reaper DNZ tactical 10moa mount. Handloaded 105gr Amax @ 3000fps. I can rock the steel gong all day long at 750yds. Of course its a large 20" gong. Great scope on a light field rifle. Hornadys 105gr Amax shoots 1/3inch groups @ 100yds with a 1/9.25 twist and a 22inch barrel. I'm happy with the results in this 9lb rifle. Results may vary.
     
    #29
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Got some 90gr sierra gk's and was wondering if anyone has tried these? Also picked up 100 105 amax's ,just need to get some h1000 to push em. Anyone tried to push these 105's out a little faster with 4350, or 4831 with any results? The 75gr Speer hps shoot sub moa over 43gr 4350 and the node seems to come back at around 46gr again, which I shot a .487" (almost identical with the 43 gr charge) but I figure why sacrifice velocity in a 243 with a 26" brrl.
    I also saw a guy shooting the 105's and he told me that using retumbo, and h1000, he shoots with magnum primers which seems to aid accuracy quite a bit.
    Let's keep this thread going with some great results like above, to all that have the 243 SPS and those who are getting one.
    BTW, it's a must to toss the tupperware stock I think as we all have seen, and mine currently wears the BC A2 with hook just like N coyote above. Anymore development NC?
     
    #30
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    i just puchased a 243 varmint at dicks and put it in a mcrees chassis. this thread has me thinkin. i plan on starting with 95g vld's and some varget or h4350. would love to hear who's having succes with 95g berger's.
     
    #31
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Rem 700 SPS Varmint 243 Win in B&C Light Tactical w/ thumb hook and Weaver GS Tactical 3-10x40 from MidwayUSA.....oh so sweet. Better than a lazer gun on steroids!!!
     
    #32
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Just wanted to let you guys know I got some h1000 and some 87g Vmax, along with the 105 Amax, and I will be loading up tonight (OCW). I will post results as soon as it gets above 50 degrees here, which is supposed to be tomorrow.
    Also stopped by Walmart in Erwin Tenn, on my way to Mahoneys, to see what they had, and I was IMPRESSED to say the least, about 10 brands of powder,primers, several 6mm and 30 cal bullets, and much more reloading equipment. If all Walmarts do this, maybe I can actually shop in WNC without paying $35 for a lb of Varget (never have) but at Wallyworld Varget is $26, and Nosler 95gBTs $14
     
    #33
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    OK guys, I can now say that YES the 1/9.125" twist on the Remmy's WILL stabilize the 105 A max. I shoot the exact gun Niles Coyote has except mine is in a blk stock (for now). I loaded up the same exact load (45.9g H1000) and used Win Magnum primers, and started .10 off the lands (2.782") shot a group, then tried it .20 off the lands, and mine liked em in the lands a bit better.
    Same load as above .10 off- .216" group center to center
    .20" off-.642"
    Using the 87 vmax I used Dan's OCW recipe of 42.5 and 43.5 of IMR4350, seated em at 2.710 (standard) still Win brass and a cci LR primer (not mag) and got
    42.5-.567"
    43.5-.485"
    I wanted to play with COAL a little bit so I loaded some .20" off but didn't have time to shoot em. I played with the 95s a bit too using H1000, and was getting .5" groups with 47.5g, but they shot a bit better with 4350 @ 40.8g shot a .277" and 40.5g shot a .341". I will be playing some more, especially the 87's and 95's but I'm sticking with Hornady, and Sierra pills, simply because they shoot great, and I'm not paying $10 more a box to have purple tips. the red works just fine. I think that the A max is the best kept secret in reloading, from the .223 up.
    Also the 70g SMK's are boring accurate out of these rifles, over 43.2 and 46g of IMR 4350. In my rifle the accuracy node goes away above 43.5 but comes back around 46g, but all rifles are different, and I consulted with Dan at OCW before I copied N Coyote's load. Keep em coming guys
     
    #34
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    groundhogbuster- what were your velocities with the 105's and H1000, and the 95's with H4350. did you use winchecter mag primers in both.what brass did you use. thanks for all the info
     
    #35
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    I used Mag primers with the H1000 loads only. Yes with the 95s, and esp with the 105's. With the 105's I was getting (with old cheap) chrono 2988-2996fps. I used Win brass with all loads. I didn't even chrono the 95's as I had loaded 20 up, before hand and loaded with 38.5g to 41.5 of 4350, but didn't write down what order they were (DUH) I know, but I just wanted a load that would shoot 1" for my son to get a whitetail. With the ones with 47.5 of H1000 and mag primers (95s) I was getting 3100, but getting bad readings as well (3300???) So I stopped it, and was just looking for accuracy, and pressure problems, which I never saw. I did have a tiny bit of sticky bolt with the 105's when I tried 46.5 H1000, but no craters, eject mks, etc. and was only on 1 load, and it didn't have the accuracy as N Coyoye's load of 45.9, but I don't think he used Magnum Primers as Dan had told me to be sure to use. This will be my new pet load for the 105's @ .10 off lands, and the 87's with 43.5g 4350 but I will be playing with OAL, and hopefully getting a better chrono. I will also be loading some new 95's of what I have left, but Dan said they were shooting these 87s w/ 43.5 of imr4350 out to 1000, with no issues and great results, and a BC of .400. I will post more info as soon as I get back to load some more. I'm going to try working with the Remmy 243, 22/250, 204. I know they don't work in all the Rems, but it's a good starting point.
     
    #37
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Boltgun, did you try Magnum primers? Dan says the 100+ pills would get a cleaner better burn, and better accuracy. It definitely helped my groups. I'd like to try the Berger 105's
     
    #40
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    I hear ya NC, it opens here Mon., gonna set my son up with the 243 with the 87'vmaxs or 95'bt's (No more Noslers, twice the price, no better accuracy).Even though the 105's are barn burners outta that gun, it's a match bullet, and I'd hate for one to get away, with a slightly off shot. And I'll be toting the new 5R, without the Brake. Gonna set him up for a 200yd shot, and I have a nice 500yd shot to my .5 acre clover/winter peas food plot. Thanks to the Gov. my job will be over Dec 31st (lay off) thanks to the (Military cut) I don't guess troops, need parachutes anymore, so I "NEED" to stock up on venison for steak/chili/jerky, for the rest of the Winter.In other words I'm not gonna be a "trophy hunter" this year, just lookin for back straps.
    BTW, keep it up guys, I love hearing about those 243's and groups. NC.. Where did you buy your Magneto, and what did you pay? I wish you could rent chrony's . I could guinea pig lots of reloads.
     
    #41
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Thanks, guys, this thread has inspired me to try the 105s in my 80s vintage 700 BDL Varminter. I wasn't sure they would stabilize in its 10 twist, but it seems to be fine.

    I haven't had a chance to test them at distance, but at 100 yds. they shoot just over 1/2 MOA. I'm excited to see how they do out past 600!
     
    #42
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Playing with Hornady’s 105 BTHP here lately. I am beginning to believe this bullet and my gun don’t like each other.

    In load testing I will get a good group one moment and the next couple tenths sends it into a large 2-3 inch pattern and the good load is fine one time, then not the next. Either its and gun/bullet issue or being right at the edge of stability issue or both.

    H1000 seems to show less of this than H4831sc so I think it’s more of a stability issue as that powder moves them along faster.


    BTW, switching to mag primers gave me a 50FPS boost on my 105 load.
     
    #44
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Go for it, get some H1000 powder and winchester or laupa brass and standard or mag primers. 105 a-max bullets and 105 berger VLD's both shoot great and my charge weight is 45.9 for both... work up to that just to be safe!
     
    #45
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go for it, get some H1000 powder and winchester or laupa brass and standard or mag primers. 105 a-max bullets and 105 berger VLD's both shoot great and my charge weight is 45.9 for both... work up to that just to be safe!</div></div>

    Thank you for the info, it's greatly appreciated.

    What OAL do you load to?
     
    #46
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    The vld will shoot well on the lands as well as jumped and I am jumping about 0.1 from the lands (2.795 is my COAL on the bergers and to the lands is 2.890), A-max’s I jump about .015-.020 don’t have any loaded to measure COAL right now.
     
    #47
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Not to de-rail, but I've got a 243 WSSM. Same case capacity as the 243 Win.

    Ya think the 105 A-Max and H-1000????

    Seems like a really slow powder.
     
    #48
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    I don't know how it would work in the WSSM, but in a straight .243 it works pretty damn good. Gives decent velocity and I already use a shit ton of H1000 so one less powder to deal with is a plus for me.
     
    #49
    Re: Update: a 243 Remington SPS Varmint and 105's

    Sorry for the drift but since you guys are talkin about this exact barrel. I have a new 700 243 take off 1/9.125 twist factory varmint barrel. Has 50 rds down it. Pm me for price if anyone is interested.
     
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