Gunsmithing Upgraded Extractor

2

223ai

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 28, 2006
1,089
16
Texas
#1
All -

I am considering having my .223ai Remington 700 extractor upgraded to a m16 or sako style. I feel like this would be a good modification given my experience of running my 223ai at the recent Shooter's Bash. On three occasions, I had a failure to extract resulting in a double feed: Once during sight in, Once on the mover stage, and Once on a timed multi-distance shoot.

Is there one that is recommended over the other?

Thanks,
Josh
 
#2
Re: Upgraded Extractor

Do a thorough search on the subject before you do it. Many smiths feel it compromises the safety of the action in the event of a case head failure. The pinned in m16 style would be may be the better choice if you are committed to changing it
 
#5
Re: Upgraded Extractor

Josh,
you know a win m70 will not allow/do this...lol
wink.gif
 
#7
Re: Upgraded Extractor

LOL...just giving ya a tough time...lol
wink.gif

i personally have not heard bad things on the sako extractor mod, but, i have not done this myself...

hope someone gives you better info than me.
grin.gif
 
#8
Re: Upgraded Extractor

Josh

Ask that same question on the gunsmithing section of Benchrest.com

and then "Duck".
wink.gif


Do a search there and you will find cases where that Sako extractor has departed the Remington bolt at very high velocity.

The reason that this modification was originally done was for 6 P.P.C. rifles to allow a .125 deep recess in the bolt face instead of .150 + .

Then the original Sako .220 Russian brass with almost ballon heads would be properly supported in the chamber .

Otherwise the point between the end of the bolt and start of chamber was at a thin part of the case .

6 P.P.C. Benchrest loads run at 70,000 p.s.i.a.


Glenn


Benchrest.com
 
#10
Re: Upgraded Extractor

In reading through that link, and doing some searching through these forums, it seems that the Sako extractor modification is not ideal. On the other hand, I am not finding a lot of data regarding the Mini M16 extractor from PTG. Thoughts on that?

Thanks,
Josh
 
#11
Re: Upgraded Extractor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All -

I am considering having my .223ai Remington 700 extractor upgraded to a m16 or sako style. I feel like this would be a good modification given my experience of running my 223ai at the recent Shooter's Bash. On three occasions, I had a failure to extract resulting in a double feed: Once during sight in, Once on the mover stage, and Once on a timed multi-distance shoot.

Is there one that is recommended over the other?

Thanks,
Josh </div></div>

Josh,
Unfortunately the Mini M-16 won't work in a .390" bolt head (for that style bolt) and although I've never had an issue with the SAKO style, I would leave the factory style extractor (for that size case head) in place.

As far as the failures to extract with the factory extractor, I'm sure the issue(s) can be identified and rectified without changing the extractor type.
 
#12
Re: Upgraded Extractor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In reading through that link, and doing some searching through these forums, it seems that the Sako extractor modification is not ideal. On the other hand, I am not finding a lot of data regarding the Mini M16 extractor from PTG. Thoughts on that?

Thanks,
Josh </div></div>
Im curious as well perhaps someone with realworld exp. will chime in
 
#13
Re: Upgraded Extractor

does anybody have any pics of a sako extracor leaving the bolt due to over pressure?

I just can't get my head around how the hell that thing can come out of the reciever flying out to hit sombody without the the reciever actualy opening up on the side?
 
#14
Re: Upgraded Extractor

I've had the Sako extractor mod done on a 6 Dasher looking for better extraction / ejection. The first Sako extractor had some issues with the lip that grabs the rim and I had to replace it. After fitting the new one and adjusting the ejector length I'm happy with the performance of the mod. All things considered not sure it is worth the effort, existing extractor is more than sufficient if tuned correctly and good quality ammo is used.
 
#15
Re: Upgraded Extractor

Sako extractors in a twin lug 90* turn bolt action are a horrible idea. They were never intended for guns like this and the potential for injury in the event of a case "sneezing" isn't something to be trifle about.

M-16 is the way to go.


FWIW the factory Remington extractor is pretty reliable. If by chance your having issues with it I'd look at the following:

Is it just wore out?
Is your brass due for an "ethnic cleansing" to get rid of the bad apples?
Is the headspace on the gun right? (big red flag)

Just some things you may want to look at. If your using new brass then I'd pay close attention to ?# 1,3.

Good luck.

C
 
#16
Re: Upgraded Extractor

Chad -

Thanks for the tips. The brass and headspace are fine. I have about 3k rounds on this barrel, and if the headspace was off, my 223 brass wouldn't have formed properly to 223ai. My first 223ai (from another "smith"), had headspace so far off that it split my brass in half. Scary.

The brass is still good to go as well, by all measurements.

Based on a couple of other tips, I am going to check under the extractor for brass build up, and will most likely replace it with another...cheap insurance. I have found that there is an excess of brass on the bolt face after a round of forming.

It's almost as if the extractor lets go of the brass before the spent casing is ejected. IT only happened three times, so it's not a huge issue. Just something that I would like to work on.

Thanks!

Josh
 
#19
Re: Upgraded Extractor

It is pretty obvious those of you that continue to sing the virtues of the stock Remmy extractor have never run one in 223.

The M700 in 223 is a compromise in many areas at best, very poorly suited for the chambering. Multiple problems exist, extraction being only one of them.

The 308 based cases work great, no doubt, with the stock extractor. Not so with the 223. You have to grind it to go over the rim, and if you are not careful you take away too much material and you end up not able to grab the case head reliably. Then, because of the short case and the limited travel of the ejector, the case wants to flop down in the action or flip around backwards and sit in the action.

Since the breach cone dimensions do not change from the 308 to the 223, plus the case is so much smaller in diameter therefore sitting way down below the center line of the bore, chambering can be difficult. There is no throwing a round in the open bolt and closing the bolt to chamber the round like in the 308 - the tip of the bullet HAS to be fed into the chamber and the round pushed partially in, otherwise you have yet another way to jam the rifle.

So back to the original question, since obviously I have the same rifle and same problems Josh has -

Any experience with 223 and the M700 with Sako or M-16 type extractors?
 
#20
Re: Upgraded Extractor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sako extractors in a twin lug 90* turn bolt action are a horrible idea. They were never intended for guns like this and the potential for injury in the event of a case "sneezing" isn't something to be trifle about.

M-16 is the way to go.


FWIW the factory Remington extractor is pretty reliable. If by chance your having issues with it I'd look at the following:

Is it just wore out?
Is your brass due for an "ethnic cleansing" to get rid of the bad apples?
Is the headspace on the gun right? (big red flag)

Just some things you may want to look at. If your using new brass then I'd pay close attention to ?# 1,3.

Good luck.

C </div></div>

Chad, I am having a similar problem with my .223. I was convinced by others here to keep the remmy extractor, and had about a 30% fail to extract. so I replaced it with a new one, and now its down to like 10% but still far from acceptable. I tried to have my smith put on the M-16 style but I believe he was told by PTG(Ithink) that it wont work(cant remember the details) so the sako was the next choice. So now I dont know what to do.
 
#23
Re: Upgraded Extractor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is pretty obvious those of you that continue to sing the virtues of the stock Remmy extractor have never run one in 223.
</div></div> </div></div>

Not sure if your directing that to me or C. Dixon. But I have a 700 in .223 and have never had a problem with it. Based on my limited experience and talking with various gunsmiths, the general consensus is that the stock extractor is reliable. If he is having that many failure to extracts, the extractor might be bad or something might be out of tolerance.

I agree the 700 extractor is a cheap piece of spring steel, but it does have a good track record of doing its job.
 
#25
Re: Upgraded Extractor

coldboremiracle, didn't realize at first that you weren't the OP. When I reread, I realized that you have had problems with 2 extractors. Hope you get it figured out. I hate to have any kind of malfunction with my rifles. Is it possible that the machine work on the Remmy bolt is not right? That could affect how much tension or contact the extractor has on the case rim. Just a thought. Have you contacted Remington? This might be a warranty issue.

I have a couple of custom actions with M16 style extractors. and have had a few 700s. Maybe I've been lucky, but all have extracted fine.
 
#26
Re: Upgraded Extractor

Back to square one...

Same problems again. Thanks for bumping this back up, Leo.

I've been told that the mini-m16 is a no go for the the bolt. I've been told that the Sako will explode and cause me permanent paralysis with slightly overpressure round. I've been told that the Sako extractor will eject the brass right in the path of my windage knob. I've been told that the sako modification is the devil incarnate.

Anyone have any other feedback, preferably with real world experience?
 
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