I have a few questions about a couple modifications I would like to do. (or have done for me) I was looking at possibly having a switchblock installed on my carbine length gassed AR, but in the FAQ on noveske's site it states that if you have a lo-pro gas block under your rails you can't really install the switchblock because it won't fit.... So I was thinking about finding someone to remove a section of my fore-end rail kind of like the rail system that noveske offers with their switchblock uppers, and install the switchblock. Now, if I was able to find someone to complete said modification for me, would they have to cut off my M.I.T.E.R. mount that is pinned to my barrel? (only a 14.5" barrel) or is it possible to remove a pinned mount without destroying it? I am in the process of aquiring an SPR/M4 suppressor, and from what I have read here and elsewhere: The shorter the gas system is on a rifle, the harder it is on the parts. Adding a suppressor to the equation is even harder on the parts and you get alot of back pressure shot back in your face.
- Thread starter The Mall Ninja
- Start date
Re: Useless Modifications????
A gusmith can remove your gas block without destroying it pretty easily. Another option to the switch block is an adjustable gas block. I have a 10.5" LMT with an adjustable A2 sight/gas block and it works great and you can fine tune it your rifle depending on suppressor, load, etc... The downside is that it's not a "suppressed or not suppressed" two position deal as with the Noveske switchblock so you'll have to keep an allen wrench with you to adjust the gas pressure if you want to remove and replace your can multiple times the same day while at the range.
I will tell you that I'm ordering a GA Precision GAP-10 with a Noveske Swithblock and the guys a GAP want the suppressor shipped to them so they can tune the switchblock to the rifle/suppressor. That leads me to believe the Noveske swithblock isnt a simple bolt-on and forget it operation.
If you decide to go with the adjustable block, PRI, Spikes, JP and a host of others make low profile blocks, just google it and go from there. I like the adjustables alot better but at the same time I have never owned a switchblock so there you have it.
A gusmith can remove your gas block without destroying it pretty easily. Another option to the switch block is an adjustable gas block. I have a 10.5" LMT with an adjustable A2 sight/gas block and it works great and you can fine tune it your rifle depending on suppressor, load, etc... The downside is that it's not a "suppressed or not suppressed" two position deal as with the Noveske switchblock so you'll have to keep an allen wrench with you to adjust the gas pressure if you want to remove and replace your can multiple times the same day while at the range.
I will tell you that I'm ordering a GA Precision GAP-10 with a Noveske Swithblock and the guys a GAP want the suppressor shipped to them so they can tune the switchblock to the rifle/suppressor. That leads me to believe the Noveske swithblock isnt a simple bolt-on and forget it operation.
If you decide to go with the adjustable block, PRI, Spikes, JP and a host of others make low profile blocks, just google it and go from there. I like the adjustables alot better but at the same time I have never owned a switchblock so there you have it.
Re: Useless Modifications????
i wasn't worried about the gas block getting destroyed, it's my flash hider i don't want to get messed up. as far as the adjustable gas block, i'm probably going to run into the same issues with my rail as i would with the switchblock of not having enough room.
i wasn't worried about the gas block getting destroyed, it's my flash hider i don't want to get messed up. as far as the adjustable gas block, i'm probably going to run into the same issues with my rail as i would with the switchblock of not having enough room.
Re: Useless Modifications????
Gotcha, I mis-read the post. And yeah that might be tricky, not to get off but re-using the M.I.T.E.R. Post in the "Gunsmithing" forum and maybe a knowledgable machinist/welder can hook you up.
As far as the gas block, call one of the companies I listed and they can give you a no-shit dimension and you'll know for sure if you can fit it under the rail, if that's the way you want to go.
I only mentioned it because a friend of mine has a Crusader and an Afgan that had switchblocks and he put adjustables on both rifles after seeing my JP because he likes the ability to tune the gas to whatever he's shooting out of the barrel.
Gotcha, I mis-read the post. And yeah that might be tricky, not to get off but re-using the M.I.T.E.R. Post in the "Gunsmithing" forum and maybe a knowledgable machinist/welder can hook you up.
As far as the gas block, call one of the companies I listed and they can give you a no-shit dimension and you'll know for sure if you can fit it under the rail, if that's the way you want to go.
I only mentioned it because a friend of mine has a Crusader and an Afgan that had switchblocks and he put adjustables on both rifles after seeing my JP because he likes the ability to tune the gas to whatever he's shooting out of the barrel.
Re: Useless Modifications????
The muzzle device has to come off to change almost every gas block. If the device is pinned and the pin can be located the weld(s)/pin can be drilled or milled away, from what I have read most people and smiths don't seem to be willing to go to the time and effort.
The muzzle device has to come off to change almost every gas block. If the device is pinned and the pin can be located the weld(s)/pin can be drilled or milled away, from what I have read most people and smiths don't seem to be willing to go to the time and effort.
Re: Useless Modifications????
Being a 14.5" that is not an SBR, the muzzle brake is pinned, and usually the pin is welded.
When I unpinned one of mine to rebuild the gun and then had to re-pin it, I found the pin by cleaning the finish off the brake, and then chucked the whole assembly up in the mill and cut the entire side of the brake that had the pin off. Then I went back with a good pair of tweezers and pull the remaining part of the pin (that was in the threaded barrel) out and was able to unscrew it.
Due to the PITA that it was, I have never had another 14.5" pinned barrel. The extra 1.5" length savings isn't worth the hassle since I can never seem to leave my guns alone.
Being a 14.5" that is not an SBR, the muzzle brake is pinned, and usually the pin is welded.
When I unpinned one of mine to rebuild the gun and then had to re-pin it, I found the pin by cleaning the finish off the brake, and then chucked the whole assembly up in the mill and cut the entire side of the brake that had the pin off. Then I went back with a good pair of tweezers and pull the remaining part of the pin (that was in the threaded barrel) out and was able to unscrew it.
Due to the PITA that it was, I have never had another 14.5" pinned barrel. The extra 1.5" length savings isn't worth the hassle since I can never seem to leave my guns alone.
Re: Useless Modifications????
Man, don't know how dead set you are on that switchblock. You might want to try a PRI Gasbuster charging handle before you do all that hacking on the front of your stick.
My buddy, who shoots for a living, used a bead of RTV around the gap between the charge handle and the receiver.
Just another option.
Man, don't know how dead set you are on that switchblock. You might want to try a PRI Gasbuster charging handle before you do all that hacking on the front of your stick.
My buddy, who shoots for a living, used a bead of RTV around the gap between the charge handle and the receiver.
Just another option.
Re: Useless Modifications????
You know what the best solution to all these issues are?
Easy button
Substitute a N4 reciever for about $100 savings.
Also they can probably perm. attach a new MITER for you.
Sell the current upper to apply funds.
Done
You know what the best solution to all these issues are?
Easy button
Substitute a N4 reciever for about $100 savings.
Also they can probably perm. attach a new MITER for you.
Sell the current upper to apply funds.
Done
Re: Useless Modifications????
I thought about selling the upper and ordering another from noveske but, I don't have the $1500.00 to get another upper as I have just purchased a suppressor. I don't think that I would be able to sell my upper for anything close to a new one's cost. But what i can do is scrape the funds together to have someone mill off a section about 1.5 to 2 inches long off the top rail and install the adjustable gas block, and get another mount. if i could find someone to do this, it is probably not going to cost anywhere near a new upper.
I thought about selling the upper and ordering another from noveske but, I don't have the $1500.00 to get another upper as I have just purchased a suppressor. I don't think that I would be able to sell my upper for anything close to a new one's cost. But what i can do is scrape the funds together to have someone mill off a section about 1.5 to 2 inches long off the top rail and install the adjustable gas block, and get another mount. if i could find someone to do this, it is probably not going to cost anywhere near a new upper.
Re: Useless Modifications????
Dude...
Parts wear with suppression is WAY overblown outside of SBRs under extreme shooting schedules. Just shoot the thing. If you're really worried about it, use an H2 buffer and accelerate the standard schedule of maintainance a bit (a new complete bolt and buffer spring every 4k rounds instead of the usually recommended 5k). Those are the parts that will wear but it's maintance you'll have to do anyway even with all these modifications. You'll literally shoot out your barrel before the cost of these mods will break even.
Dude...
Parts wear with suppression is WAY overblown outside of SBRs under extreme shooting schedules. Just shoot the thing. If you're really worried about it, use an H2 buffer and accelerate the standard schedule of maintainance a bit (a new complete bolt and buffer spring every 4k rounds instead of the usually recommended 5k). Those are the parts that will wear but it's maintance you'll have to do anyway even with all these modifications. You'll literally shoot out your barrel before the cost of these mods will break even.
Re: Useless Modifications????
My work rifle is a 14.5" barrel with carbine gas system A2 FSB and a suppressor. I use a PRI Gasbuster. I also run an H2 buffer.
The only part that needs attention is the firing pin retaining pin. It gets beaten up a bit and needs to be replaced after a couple thousand rounds.
With the amount of trouble you are talking about, I would just build a new upper if you are really set on the switch block.
My work rifle is a 14.5" barrel with carbine gas system A2 FSB and a suppressor. I use a PRI Gasbuster. I also run an H2 buffer.
The only part that needs attention is the firing pin retaining pin. It gets beaten up a bit and needs to be replaced after a couple thousand rounds.
With the amount of trouble you are talking about, I would just build a new upper if you are really set on the switch block.
Re: Useless Modifications????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mall Ninja</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about selling the upper and ordering another from noveske but, I don't have the $1500.00 to get another upper as I have just purchased a suppressor. I don't think that I would be able to sell my upper for anything close to a new one's cost. But what i can do is scrape the funds together to have someone mill off a section about 1.5 to 2 inches long off the top rail and install the adjustable gas block, and get another mount. if i could find someone to do this, it is probably not going to cost anywhere near a new upper. </div></div>
I would get a reliable estimate for the cost of all the parts and labor for the work you want to have done, not sure about where you are but in the northern virginia area you pay ~100 for someone to spin on a flash hider. It may not end up being a big stretch to simply get a new upper configured the way you want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mall Ninja</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about selling the upper and ordering another from noveske but, I don't have the $1500.00 to get another upper as I have just purchased a suppressor. I don't think that I would be able to sell my upper for anything close to a new one's cost. But what i can do is scrape the funds together to have someone mill off a section about 1.5 to 2 inches long off the top rail and install the adjustable gas block, and get another mount. if i could find someone to do this, it is probably not going to cost anywhere near a new upper. </div></div>
I would get a reliable estimate for the cost of all the parts and labor for the work you want to have done, not sure about where you are but in the northern virginia area you pay ~100 for someone to spin on a flash hider. It may not end up being a big stretch to simply get a new upper configured the way you want.
Re: Useless Modifications????
Quick breakdown in costs that I am coming up with:
New mount ~$100
Adco cutting off old mount $40
Adco pinning new mount $30
Shipping/Insurance both ways $30
Milling current rail, at least $50
Switchblock $185
Total $435
New Noveske switchblock upper is $1460
I would suggest getting a gas buster charging handle and doing the RTV mod first and seeing if that works for you. Then decide whether either one of those costs is worth it to you.
Below is what a pinned on muzzle device looks like after being milled off:
Quick breakdown in costs that I am coming up with:
New mount ~$100
Adco cutting off old mount $40
Adco pinning new mount $30
Shipping/Insurance both ways $30
Milling current rail, at least $50
Switchblock $185
Total $435
New Noveske switchblock upper is $1460
I would suggest getting a gas buster charging handle and doing the RTV mod first and seeing if that works for you. Then decide whether either one of those costs is worth it to you.
Below is what a pinned on muzzle device looks like after being milled off:
Re: Useless Modifications????
Just FYI, removimg the muzzle device without first removing teh barrel from the receiver makes an SBR. Even taking it off first is a bit of an issue, if there is not a legal length barrel right there. Then you need to redo the attachment to 'permanent' status, so repin and weld, once again, with the barrel separated from the receiver.
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking the rules, but the ATF will not be pleased if the happen to drop by for an inspection and find this in the shop. Not my rules, just putting it out there.
Just FYI, removimg the muzzle device without first removing teh barrel from the receiver makes an SBR. Even taking it off first is a bit of an issue, if there is not a legal length barrel right there. Then you need to redo the attachment to 'permanent' status, so repin and weld, once again, with the barrel separated from the receiver.
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking the rules, but the ATF will not be pleased if the happen to drop by for an inspection and find this in the shop. Not my rules, just putting it out there.
Re: Useless Modifications????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just FYI, removimg the muzzle device without first removing teh barrel from the receiver makes an SBR. Even taking it off first is a bit of an issue, if there is not a legal length barrel right there. Then you need to redo the attachment to 'permanent' status, so repin and weld, once again, with the barrel separated from the receiver.
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking the rules, but the ATF will not be pleased if the happen to drop by for an inspection and find this in the shop. Not my rules, just putting it out there. </div></div>
This is a non issue if he sends just the upper, which presumably he would do as there is no need for the lower to present for this modification. OP, you are GTG in this regard, just don't send in your lower along with your upper.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just FYI, removimg the muzzle device without first removing teh barrel from the receiver makes an SBR. Even taking it off first is a bit of an issue, if there is not a legal length barrel right there. Then you need to redo the attachment to 'permanent' status, so repin and weld, once again, with the barrel separated from the receiver.
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking the rules, but the ATF will not be pleased if the happen to drop by for an inspection and find this in the shop. Not my rules, just putting it out there. </div></div>
This is a non issue if he sends just the upper, which presumably he would do as there is no need for the lower to present for this modification. OP, you are GTG in this regard, just don't send in your lower along with your upper.
Re: Useless Modifications????
I had adco install the FH a while ago and the upper was all I sent before.... I know about the barrel length rules, and those that apply to the AR, which is why I had the FH pinned in the first place. even at almost $450 the work to be done to the upper is still less than a third of the cost of a new upper. if anything else i wrote noveske an email asking if they would sell one of the rails that are already cut out... although all the uppers with the switchblock on them are supposedly mid-length sytems and my barrel isn't going to work any how. I like the SWS rail thats on my rifle now, i just wish it had more room between the rail and the barrel.
I had adco install the FH a while ago and the upper was all I sent before.... I know about the barrel length rules, and those that apply to the AR, which is why I had the FH pinned in the first place. even at almost $450 the work to be done to the upper is still less than a third of the cost of a new upper. if anything else i wrote noveske an email asking if they would sell one of the rails that are already cut out... although all the uppers with the switchblock on them are supposedly mid-length sytems and my barrel isn't going to work any how. I like the SWS rail thats on my rifle now, i just wish it had more room between the rail and the barrel.
Re: Useless Modifications????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just FYI, removimg the muzzle device without first removing teh barrel from the receiver makes an SBR. Even taking it off first is a bit of an issue, if there is not a legal length barrel right there. Then you need to redo the attachment to 'permanent' status, so repin and weld, once again, with the barrel separated from the receiver.
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking the rules, but the ATF will not be pleased if the happen to drop by for an inspection and find this in the shop. Not my rules, just putting it out there.</div></div>
I know everybody is scared shitless that agents will decend from black helicopters but how do you take off the barrel without takining off the the flash hider first?
I never understood the scare-tactics logics.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just FYI, removimg the muzzle device without first removing teh barrel from the receiver makes an SBR. Even taking it off first is a bit of an issue, if there is not a legal length barrel right there. Then you need to redo the attachment to 'permanent' status, so repin and weld, once again, with the barrel separated from the receiver.
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking the rules, but the ATF will not be pleased if the happen to drop by for an inspection and find this in the shop. Not my rules, just putting it out there.</div></div>
I know everybody is scared shitless that agents will decend from black helicopters but how do you take off the barrel without takining off the the flash hider first?
I never understood the scare-tactics logics.
Re: Useless Modifications????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just FYI, removimg the muzzle device without first removing teh barrel from the receiver makes an SBR. Even taking it off first is a bit of an issue, if there is not a legal length barrel right there. Then you need to redo the attachment to 'permanent' status, so repin and weld, once again, with the barrel separated from the receiver.
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking the rules, but the ATF will not be pleased if the happen to drop by for an inspection and find this in the shop. Not my rules, just putting it out there. </div></div>
Cory, without turning this into a "constructive possession" discussion, it matters not at all if the barrel is attached to the upper or not (as long as the upper is not attached to the rifle). The violation would be if all the parts were present in his possession to make an illegal configuration.
Unless HE is the one doing the milling, it's kind of a non issue. The shop doing the work will know what they need to do to remain in compliance.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just FYI, removimg the muzzle device without first removing teh barrel from the receiver makes an SBR. Even taking it off first is a bit of an issue, if there is not a legal length barrel right there. Then you need to redo the attachment to 'permanent' status, so repin and weld, once again, with the barrel separated from the receiver.
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking the rules, but the ATF will not be pleased if the happen to drop by for an inspection and find this in the shop. Not my rules, just putting it out there. </div></div>
Cory, without turning this into a "constructive possession" discussion, it matters not at all if the barrel is attached to the upper or not (as long as the upper is not attached to the rifle). The violation would be if all the parts were present in his possession to make an illegal configuration.
Unless HE is the one doing the milling, it's kind of a non issue. The shop doing the work will know what they need to do to remain in compliance.
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