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using nickle to not size full brass

G

gsxcorey

Private
Minuteman
Mar 18, 2011
91
5
45
I was at cabela's and the huge guru in reloading there was telling me with my .338 lm that I should put a nick or so between the shell holder and the top of the press when I shove the shell up there. This way, on a bolt gun it doesn't size the very very end of the brass along with the end of the neck. This way when the round is chambered those two points will hold the shell true in the gun and let the shell be set to my gun? Have you guys heard of this?

Just looking on thoughts. Basically he said when it fires the shell forms to your gun, by not sizing the very end of the brass and very end of the neck the round can't "wobble" in your gun at all. Combine this with having the bullet about 10 thousands off the lands and he said accuracy should be even better then just reloading to normal specs?
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gsxcorey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was at cabela's and the huge guru in reloading there was telling me with my .338 lm that I should put a nick or so between the shell holder and the top of the press when I shove the shell up there. This way, on a bolt gun it doesn't size the very very end of the brass along with the end of the neck. This way when the round is chambered those two points will hold the shell true in the gun and let the shell be set to my gun? Have you guys heard of this?

Just looking on thoughts. Basically he said when it fires the shell forms to your gun, by not sizing the very end of the brass and very end of the neck the round can't "wobble" in your gun at all. Combine this with having the bullet about 10 thousands off the lands and he said accuracy should be even better then just reloading to normal specs? </div></div>

I can't even conceputualize what you're talking about.

I've reloaded the 338Lm for over six years and I mostly just neck size my older cases.

Chris
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

The concept is real....to some....though here much is lost in the translation.

Why not just neck size and fuck things up a lot less?

"Guru" is right........
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

In principal, it's called "partial full length sizing" and has been around for some time. I don't shoot .338 so I don't know if the thickness a nickel is the correct dimension here or not.

Paul
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Yah, just neck sizing I guess makes more sense and would be a lot easier. I just started reloading so since I have a full length die I'm assuming I would have to get another die if I wanted to just size the neck?
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

When i was learning to hand load from an old timer i was showed to set the full length size to bump the shoulder back and then set the lock ring. Then put 2 7/8 inch machine bushings under the lock ring which pretty much makes a full length die into a neck die. I still use this technique from time to time.
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Don't take advice or candy from strangers.
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Let's try to decypher this.....

Guru told you to place a nickel or some such between your shell holder and from what I can gather the bottom of the die...so that when you force the shell up into the die, it doesn't reach the shoulder portion of the die.

Correct?

We'll hafta assume Guru was talking about a full length sizing die...because, well, why bother with a neck die.

This would do exactly what Guru says it would do, but what Guru is failing to comprehend is that a full length die actually causes the length of the case body to grow first, and holding it back the thickness of nickel would increase the length of the case, from shoulder to base, to a point where it would be very difficult to chamber.

When you hear someone saying that they bump the shoulder back a certain amount, which facilitates easier chambering, their case first grows in length in the die, then the shoulder portion of the case meets the shoulder portion of the die, then the shoulder portion of the case is forced back a thousandth or two shorter than the actual chamber dimension.

What Guru is telling you is shade tree crap....if you think you want to explore this further, get a neck die and set it up to partial size the neck. Do that with the lock ring and the amount the die is screwed into the press, not with a fucking nickel. The rest will take care of itself. And for what it's worth, I gave up on neck sizing decades ago and just bump my shoulders .001" with a FL die, and can't come up with one single solid reason to bitch about the results.
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Thanks tripwire. That really helped. i know this a newb question, but here goes.

I got the hornady tool to measure my OAL and figure when the bullet hits the lands. I'm going to back it off .01 when seating the bullet.

If i stick with a full length die i don't need to worry about bumping the shoulder would i?
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Seating a bullet and sizing the case are two different steps, right?

And neither are specifically dependant on the other, right?

Seat where ever you feel comfy....but I strongly suggest bumping the shoulder with your FL die.
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Seems like I remember seeing this in the instructions included with some old RCBS dies. Included was a spacer (about the thickness of a nickle) that was inserted between the shellholder and die when setting up the die in order to "partially full-length size" your brass. Good idea in theory I guess, but not very precise when it comes to sizing for a specific headspace measurement...
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

If you have the right tool to measure the bump. You can save your nickle. This should have been titled "Hope and Change."
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems like I remember seeing this in the instructions included with some old RCBS dies. Included was a spacer (about the thickness of a nickle) that was inserted between the shellholder and die when setting up the die in order to "partially full-length size" your brass. Good idea in theory I guess, but not very precise when it comes to sizing for a specific headspace measurement... </div></div>

What you are recalling there is the spacer that came with such things as .357 mag dies, and 44 mag dies....that allowed you to also load 38 special and 44 special, respectively, without setting the die up more than once.

Not the same thing as this subject.........
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

There is a procedure to resize your cases the absolute minimum. I believe this what you would call partial full length resizing:

You need a case that is hard to chamber because it has grown in length. I always supposed you would neck size only until you got one that needed a shoulder bump, but I suppose as tripwire described above, you might be able to lengthen one by having your nickel space. Then you start with your full length die too far out, size the case, wipe the lube off, and try to chamber it. Then you adjust your die in a quarter or eighth turn and repeat the process till the bolt closes easily. You probably wreck a case doing this by working it too much.

Typically, to full length size you screw the die in to touch the shell holder, but the above procedure will leave a very small gap.

What I think the guru maybe talking about would be more like partial neck sizing. You leave the gap as mentioned. Now the back end of the neck is fitted to the chamber which helps center the case.
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Since i'm starting out I want to confirm, but if i do the full length die i won't have to worry about bumping the shoulder even? But accuracy will be helped if I measure the length of the space from the back of the camber to the lands and then make the OAL about 10 thousands off the lands so the bullet sits about that far off the lands? This would be fine for now and i wouldn't need to worry about any of the other stuff until later on down the road?
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Do a search on here for tuning your dies to your rifle. There has been a LOT posted here on it.
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

Yeah but I think he's gonna still be confused even if he does a search....

There are TWO measurements to be concerned with:

One is from the bolt face to the shoulder....re; what the sizer is doing to the brass. My advice is to bump the shoulder 1 or 2 thousandths back from your fired case dimension.

The other measurement is regarding where you seat the bullet in relation to the lands. That's your preference initially but I wouldn't be jamming lands at the start. Mag box constraints usually govern this for most practical applications.
 
Re: using nickle to not size full brass

I'm going to 2nd Tripwires idea. You want to get the neck sizing die that uses bushings. You need the bullet comparator so your measuring the same point all the time. Because when you only dealing with a .001-.002 clearance, guessing or thinking your measuring at the same point doesn't work. You need to be able to get a repeatable reading.

You need to carefully follow the directions on how to set the neck tension. You want the same spec as with the neck bump, .001-.002. It takes some time to do all the measuring and adjusting but when its all said and done its worth the effort. You need a good digital mic not the plastic stuff. Find a machine shop supply and spend a couple of hundred dollars on a quality tool.
http://www.globaltestsupply.com/stores/mitutoyo/?gclid=COfNxt6g1LACFYMKKgod1XYbzw
 
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