Rifle Scopes USO or Premier

[cyrekzz]

Sorry if this has been posted before but...
I'm trying to decide what to upgrade to... between a USO 3.2 - 17x or Premier 3 - 15x. I've done the research and have decided (from what i read) that i want to go with 1 of these 2 scopes, w/illum. I'm not going to be doing much shooting out past 1000 yds... and it will be may be used for varmint/deer hunting on occasion. Currently, i have a horus vision hawk - which i do like the reticle and the fact that i don't have to turn any knobs - it's nice - but the glass is actually decent... but no parallax adjust!!! So, for the people that have experience with these scopes, what would be the best bet for all around.
I'm thinking of the horus reticle or mil with the USO or GEN2 XR in premier. Both illuminated.

thanks in advance,
Matt

 

[JRose]

Re: USO or Premier

I have a 3.2-17x USO with Horus reticle, and 2 more on order. I love them. Wouldn't trade it for the Gen2XR personally. I don't really care for the Gen2XR, I tried to like it, but just can't get behind it...

If it wasn't a $800 option I'd say look into the PH with the Horus, but $400 is already rediculous enough IMO.... Gotta stop that madness somehwere.

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

So i take it you went with the 1/10 mil increments too? which horus reticle did you get (Hxx)?

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or Premier

If you're not sold on the Horus reticle and looking at a mil based reticle then check out the Nightforce 3.5-15x50 F1 with MLR reticle. FFP, .1 mil knobs, illuminated reticle, zero stop elevation knob, side parallax adjustment, great glass, track perfectly and comes with Nightforce Ultralight rings and sunshade for $2290.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: USO or Premier

i just went through this decision my self, i was all torn between uso and premier

i got a chance to shoot asc and play with all the scopes i ended up buying a 4-16 schmidt and bender

to me it is worth the extra $$ over the others and is a great scope

contact adam at Bauer Arms he has a few left at great prices.


to me is the best out there, took me a while to figure it out but that is the decision i ended up making

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

bauer arms - i ordered a accupoint monopod from there... it's in MN where i am. I'll check it out... schmidt and benders are nice just always thought it was out of my price range...

 

[Tigerbikes]

Re: USO or Premier

Personally, having owned both, I prefer the Premier (features & ergonomics).

But if the scope is going on a rig that might double as your hunting gun, the PH is pretty heavy.

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

yeah - the PH's look pretty sizeable as compared to the other scopes S&B and USO. hmmm... looks like i'm still at a point of decision... i figured premier would be the answer - but now i don't know again...

 

[deadly0311]

Re: USO or Premier

used all four big dawg scopes ( S&B, USO, Premier, and NF). At the moment im running the Premier 5-25. I loved my NF that i had, but i traded it for a deal that i couldnt pass up. Used the US Optics, liked em no problems from them. The SB, its alright( in my opinion) and the Premier is what im running now. The only complaints i have about the Premier, the clicks are to close together on the knobs for me, and im still not quite sure about the tooless zeroing of the turret. When i try to do it the way that it says on the info that came with the scope, my zero changes. Hope this helps. If it were my list it would look something like this

Premier 5-25x56 (im a mag whore)
NF F1
US Optics 5-25 TPal
Schmidt and Bender( the only one i have used is the SSDS on the M40A3)

 

[TheArtist]

Re: USO or Premier

If you aren't going past 1000yards, you might find that the ST10 USO will be fine, custom built to your choosing. and you can load it up with options for around 1500.00. But if you need an adjustable scope, I'd still go USO, plenty of options to pick from, knobs, colors, reticles, MOA or Mil, adjustable parallax or fixed, however you want it.

 

[lanwickum]

Re: USO or Premier

Tough pick. USO customer service, unbeatable. That can easily set the scales toward USO. Never owned or used the premier yet.

 

[Maggot]

Re: USO or Premier

I tried all of them at the meet in Houston this summer. M list would go

S&B
Premier
NF
USO

For the money the NF is really hard to beat. I sold my USO and kept the NXS. Good luck with your choice.

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or Premier

Having owned and used all of them my match rifles have Nightforce F1 scopes on them. My list would be

NF
S&B(only second due to cost but I would put tied with NF)
Premier
USO

I like the knobs on the NF much better than the Premier or the USOs.

 

[blurry6]

Re: USO or Premier

I have both a USO SN-3 3.2-17x w/EREK (MOA/MOA) and a Premier Heritage 5-25x (MIL/MIL),... Yeah, it's odd to be running both systems, but not neither is all that difficult to work with,... just gotta remember what system you're working with

Both are fantastic and both companies really stand behind their products, so you really can't go wrong.

Personally, I think the PH is the way to go,... at least for now. If you're going to go PH, I'd definitely look at going the 5-25x route - not much more money, if any, and the weight/length increase isn't all that debilitating (more is more in my book).

In terms of features, the PH simply has them ALL and it does them all well - with the exception of a MOA/MOA option. It has great optics (almost like going to the optometrist in terms of clarity - I think my vision is BETTER when looking through it). Adjustments are BAD@$$ (BIG-CLICK/little-click is awesome). Side Parallax adjustment is great with the pull-out illuminated reticule,... In short, what's not to like!

Plus, if you do find it not to your liking (doubtful,... HIGHLY doubtful), the PH is such a hot commodity right now that you shouldn't have ANY problem getting what you paid for it,... or at least the vast majority of it.

DO IT!!!

Ryan

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

yeah - USO has a nice rep as far as being used in the military. S&B used worldwide - how can so many people be wrong?

and then there's Premier that is newer - still kind of waiting for some more reviews out there... wouldn't you guys think that the 5 - 25x would be too much up close?? i might be shooting at something that's 50 - 100 yds and running (i.e a prairie dog). I know my gun can shoot out to 1000... i think... but i don't think i can. I need more practice on breathing and steadying for different positions of shooting you know?

oh - i was looking at nightforce for a while but heard that PH was a better choice all-around???

I'm still thinking the 3 - 15x (PH and USO) or 4 - 16x (S&B)

 

[blurry6]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cyrekzz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wouldn't you guys think that the 5 - 25x would be too much up close?? i might be shooting at something that's 50 - 100 yds and running (i.e a prairie dog). </div></div>

The 5-25x MIGHT be little too much magnification for 50 yards,... but it should be fine at 100 yards. If you really only see yourself shooting within 100 yards, then by all means, get the lower powered optic.

In regards to resale, I think you'll find FAR more interest in a 5-25x than a 3-15x - again, more is more. Plus, the 25x is a nice magnification for load development if you reload! It's nice to be able to REALLY hold tightly on-target when developing loads, although I personally swap out any of my scopes for my Weaver 36x when developing a load.

You can't go wrong with the S&B or Hensoldt - definitely the standard by which all others are measured,... but also a fair chunk-o-change to get

Ryan

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cyrekzz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh - i was looking at nightforce for a while but heard that PH was a better choice all-around???

</div></div>

And where did you hear this? From people who have actually used them or people who read about them and looked at pictures on the internet or looked through them in a field?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: USO or Premier

i agree with Rob on this one. If i knew jack shit about how to make and design a scope alot of the features would come from NF. The Premier is no better than the NF, may have a feature or two that i like better than the NF, but to say its a better scope isnt the right assumption. NF is a sturdy, well built, dependable scope. As are the higher end optics, but there is a point to where the money you pay has diminishing performance. IE is it better to pay X amount of dollars when you can get very close to the same performance and features for 500-1000 less?

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or Premier

The only reason I would say go S&B or Premier is if you want a 25x optic now but that might change next year

 

[gugubica]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only reason I would say go S&B or Premier is if you want a 25x optic now but that might change next year

</div></div>

Very, very soon, according to a rep I spoke with.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF is a sturdy, well built, dependable scope</div></div>

Honestly, they all are at this point. What separates them at this point is features.

For example, I can't run a S&B because of the backward ass knobs. I know there are some out there that are not backwards, but they are hard to find used. But, it also has a lot of things I like.

Nightforces ilumination control sucks (IMHO) and they don't offer a 22x in FFP (yet). But it has a lot of things that I like too.

Premiers are big and heavy, but it has a lot of things I like too.

USO's have been the board bitches lately, and dont have as good of glass, but they can have about all the features that I like on the other scopes.

You just have to find out what are the "must have" features for you and what you can deal with or live without.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: USO or Premier

yeah i understand what you are saying gugubica, didnt say any of the others werent good scopes. Its just i was replying to the OP when he said he heard that the PH were better scopes so he stopped looking at NF

 

[gugubica]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah i understand what you are saying gugubica, didnt say any of the others werent good scopes. Its just i was replying to the OP when he said he heard that the PH were better scopes so he stopped looking at NF </div></div>

I know, I hope I did not come off as confrontational. I was trying to support your point.

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or Premier

Gug I agree that the illumination on the NF would be better for most if it had many adjustments like a reostat but honestly I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used an illuminated reticle at a match or at home. Also once I set it to where it's good when dark I don't need to adjust it so it works for me. I guess that's one of the things you were talking about as must haves. I must have and the NF gives me excellent glass, tracking that is right on and a good reticle. Illumination is one of those side things for me.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: USO or Premier

it didnt come off as confrontational gugubica, just explaining my point a little better

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">honestly I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used an illuminated reticle at a match or at home. </div></div>

Hopefully TPRC'10 will get you over to the other hand!

 

[clmayfield]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gug I agree that the illumination on the NF would be better for most if it had many adjustments like a reostat but honestly I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used an illuminated reticle at a match or at home. Also once I set it to where it's good when dark I don't need to adjust it so it works for me. I guess that's one of the things you were talking about as must haves. I must have and the NF gives me excellent glass, tracking that is right on and a good reticle. Illumination is one of those side things for me. </div></div>

I agree. I am not bothered by non-adjustable rheostat. In some ways, it is easier to set it and not think about it. I just crank it until I start to see glare and back it off. My biggest gripe with this on NF vs. PH is that it is easy to forget to turn it off on the NF. With the PH, it is hard to miss when it is on and I often put it away in its case and find out the next day I left the illumination on.

I have a PH and an NXS. I would like to look through an F1 just for comparison's sake. My PH definitely has better glass than the NXS, but I understand the glass in the F1 is not the same as the NXS.

As for clicks, the NXS (same as F1) clicks feel better to me (farther away, etc). You really have to work on not skipping over the .1 mil adjustment after the "clunk" (e.g., 1.1, 2.1, 3.1) on the PH. But the NXS has only 5 Mils adjustment until I lap it, so it can be hard to keep track of where I am (I don't have a zero stop). I have been 5 Mils off a couple of times. I would rather have more adjustment per turn and less solid feeling clicks. This can be fixed with training. YMMV.

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">honestly I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used an illuminated reticle at a match or at home. </div></div>

Hopefully TPRC'10 will get you over to the other hand!

</div></div>

I doubt it because I have a few more fingers left. And a special one right in the middle for you

Carter, the zero stop makes all the world of difference. Forget where you are? Just a quick bottom out and you're good. Good thing though is my 6.5 takes less than 2 turns to get to 1000, about 8.3 mils, so I am never off a second turn. With a .308 to 1000 it might be into the third turn but only .5 mils but most of it will be on the second turn too.

For yours you might want to try and put some electrical tape on the horizontal index marks. Cover the ones not being used so you see one on the first revolution and then 2 when on the second etc. Here's some pics of how I did it on my old Leupold

At zero

At 15 MOA on second turn because there are two lines showing

 

[gugubica]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gug I agree that the illumination on the NF would be better for most if it had many adjustments like a reostat but honestly I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used an illuminated reticle at a match or at home. Also once I set it to where it's good when dark I don't need to adjust it so it works for me. I guess that's one of the things you were talking about as must haves. I must have and the NF gives me excellent glass, tracking that is right on and a good reticle. Illumination is one of those side things for me. </div></div>

I agree completely, that is not a deal killer on the F1. I am waiting until the higher mag version comes out, but that is just personal preference.

I do use the ilum more than I have to though. I shoot with both eyes open and sometimes the ambient light makes it harder to maintain right eye dominance. I use the ilum (reostat type) to force my attention to the reticle.

Again, not a huge deal, but find it handy.

I actually use ilum alot, sometimes I just like the contrast. Never really needed, but a nice extra. And definitely not a deal breaker.

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

yeah - my research was all from reading comments and reviews on the scopes. I originally, when i 1st started looking, considered the nightforce with the zero stop... but a couple of reviews were saying that for the money, there would be better clarity out there. other than that, it seems that everyone agrees they are a very rugged scope. +2 for that! I guess my opinion was sort of based on the liberty optics shot show 2009 review a little.
As far as PH and S&B - to me anyhow having no experience with either, they seem like closest to eachother? As far as glass and functionality, but not weight?? mel's sniper central did a review on a couple of S&B's.
And then USO - hmmm... i haven't honestly done a whole lot of research on it. But i heard they're rugged and good glass too!

Maybe at this point in the optics i'm comparing minor differences and blowing them into huge differences... and plus i have no first-hand experience with them. I just don't have the money or the range-time or the money right now to order and sell/return to test them out. I wish I did!!!

 

[JRose]

Re: USO or Premier

Don't chase the "best glass"... IMO it's akin to a dog chasing it's tail. I own NF and USO scopes and have looked through the PH, Hendsolt, and have used a S&B. All the glass was good enough on every one of them for me to see my hits. Pick the scope that suits your needs best, by choosing any one of them, your getting good glass!

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

JRose - i think that probably about sums it up - I mean anything would be better than what i have i think... and i guess it's more down to the features/reticle and sturdiness for me.

Hmmm... i'm just worried that if something happens to the scope (and not my fault) that i can get good cust service too...

-matt

 

[deadly0311]

Re: USO or Premier

all of the companies that you have listed will fix any problems that may arise at any time. USO has by far the best customer service, PH has good CS too, NF good yet again, SB good but it takes the longest since it has to go to Germany but there was a member that had a SB go back and they gave him a loaner scope while his was gone

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: USO or Premier

To me it depends on if you want pre-programed options or custom.

The glass on all is top of the line. Not many targets or animals need HD glass. They all accomplish "glass needs" above the norm.

If you are a hash mark hold over shooter they all offer ret. that can comply with your needs. For me it was the customizable features that I choose USO. Left side windage was a big one for me. Albeit I'm quirky.

C/S is also a bit selling point.

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

OK - thanks for all the input guys... it seems to me that i will not make a horrible decision 1 way or the other - i think it will come down to what i feel like spending money on and what options i get. For me - i could use any reticle with mil or moa i think... i have a milradian now (horus vision scope) so i'm used to that with .1 mil clicks - i could learn to use another though since i've only used this for the summer so far. it's nice to have a parallax adjust with markings - but for me, markings not a necessity.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: USO or Premier

with that said i would recommend to go with a mil/mil setup on this scope just to standardize and not have MOA/MOA on one rifle and Mil/Mil on another

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

maybe i will go with a 5x - 25x, what the heck? if PH has no diff in price between both of theirs. There's not a whole lot of difference between 3x and 5x... when i was out in CO prairie dog hunting i found myself tracking at 4 or 5x anyways once i spotted them with my eye (~50 yds) or even just looking through my scope and tracking - 3x was more useless than useful... for me.
Maybe i'm just trying to justify a higher power scope

 

[clmayfield]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For yours you might want to try and put some electrical tape on the horizontal index marks. Cover the ones not being used so you see one on the first revolution and then 2 when on the second etc. Here's some pics of how I did it on my old Leupold
</div></div>

Interesting. Thanks!

It is not like it happens a lot, but sometimes, I will be dialed in, shoot, and then not zero back before I dial in again. A zero stop would definitely help. But this trick is nice as well.

 

[JRose]

Re: USO or Premier

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For yours you might want to try and put some electrical tape on the horizontal index marks. Cover the ones not being used so you see one on the first revolution and then 2 when on the second etc. Here's some pics of how I did it on my old Leupold
</div></div>

Interesting. Thanks!

It is not like it happens a lot, but sometimes, I will be dialed in, shoot, and then not zero back before I dial in again. A zero stop would definitely help. But this trick is nice as well. </div></div>

+1! I just colored in mine with a Sharpie on my MK4!

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: USO or Premier

Thanks for the responses guys... i think i will be calling around for pricing.