Rifle Scopes USO or S&B

[NOMAD]

Re: USO or S&B

I as well as many others like S&B.

To be honest Frank,and Rob have used more scopes in various formats then large groups of people combined on this board have.

His vast knowledge and informative information on scopes is spot on and correct.

You have a few choices take the information being given, or
go waste your money on what you want thats your choice!!

PS if you dont like whats being talked in thread move on.

 

[Carcajou]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carcajou</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In short, S&B scopes have a limited choice of reticles </div></div>

S&B Reticles:
P4F MOA
P4F
P4
Klein
P3 Mildot
H2CMR
MSR
Horus
P1 Bryant

The illumination knob is tough with your set up of not being able to put the rings where ever you want but with a standard picatinny rail it's a non issue. Some lefties have problems with the bolt handle hitting as well. I have been told that a new illumination knob is in the works so S&B does listen. </div></div>

Rob,

With all due respect, allow me to disagree with you.

Firstly, all of the S&B reticles that you enumerate are NOT available in all S&B scopes : each model has its own restricted set of reticles.

Secondly, to be more specific, the reticle that I would have liked to get (P4 Fein) is NOT available in the scope model that I could have chosen (S&B 3-12X50 PM II/P). The only reticles available in this model are the P1, P3 and Police - three of them, no more. The 3-12X50 PM II/LP and 3-12X50 PM II/LP/MTC models were out of the race because of the rear mounted illumination knob.

I was looking for a rather low variable magnification tough - but not too heavy - scope and the S&B 3-12X50 PM II/P model would have been a very good candidate. So, I found elsewhere what I was looking for : a US Optics SN-3 1.8-10X (44mm Objective) scope, with a choice of seven (7) reticles - not counting the reticles that are not cataloged but available on demand (Horus and if I am not mistaken, Premier reticles).

That is not to say that my USO scope is "better" than a S&B scope : as a matter of fact, I don't know which one is "better" but I do know which one was available with the options that I wanted. I wasn't about to change my mind (S&B scope model) just to get the right reticle - unacceptable compromise for me.

Having said all that, I still think that S&B scopes are among the top "tactical" scopes in the world - if you are lucky enough to find what you want in their catalog : no custom-built Schmidt und Bender scopes. Unfortunately, I should add.

 

[bward]

Re: USO or S&B

I find it amazing that the USO fans can justify a USO being better than a S&B becaase of reticles. I've had 4 different USO scopes. Every one of them had a problem from not tracking correctly, the paralax not working correctly, or just having all kinds of shit in the glass.

Even if they would have worked and functioned 100% (like the 6 or so S&B's I've owned have) the glass sucked in every one of them. I and several other people looked through my 58mm USO set on 16X and my 42mm S&B set on 16X at dusk and the difference in brightness and clarity was distinct. You could still make out targets with the S&B and the USO looked like you were looking into a cloud of fog.

So, in the end I don't really care how many reticles USO has, no way I'm going to spend $2500-$3000 on a scope with $1000 glass and a history of tracking problems.

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or S&B

Carcajou, I understand that some, especially the non illuminated, have a smaller amount of reticles available but the reticles available in the PMII line of scopes are what I listed. You need to check depending on the scope what reticles it has.

The illumination knob problem with your rifle set up is obviously a scope choice limiter as it is for some lefties. I totally understand that and you have to get what works for you. Your money, your choice. Same for everyone. I have absolutely no problem with that.

 

[5RWill]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it amazing that the USO fans can justify a USO being better than a S&B becaase of reticles. I've had 4 different USO scopes. Every one of them had a problem from not tracking correctly, the paralax not working correctly, or just having all kinds of shit in the glass.

Even if they would have worked and functioned 100% (like the 6 or so S&B's I've owned have) the glass sucked in every one of them. I and several other people looked through my 58mm USO set on 16X and my 42mm S&B set on 16X at dusk and the difference in brightness and clarity was distinct. You could still make out targets with the S&B and the USO looked like you were looking into a cloud of fog.

So, in the end I don't really care how many reticles USO has, no way I'm going to spend $2500-$3000 on a scope with $1000 glass and a history of tracking problems. </div></div>

For some people a specific reticle makes all the difference. It's all about personal opinion. As is stated it's really up to the OP. People are going to have different opinions and experiences with both. And for the most part while not having used S&B i'd have to agree with Rob. On average from what i read, i'd say S&B makes a better scope. Difference is as stated above Rob has been there done that. I stated earlier S&B is known as the standard as to which others are judged by IMO and i stick by it. But on the other hand i can't complain a bit about my USO. Tracks flawlessly, glass is fine, parallax is fine, and i love my choice of knobs(EREK and US. #1 M40) Would that make me hesitate to buy S&B? not one bit. As i'm eager to really try all of the top tier optics like premier, Zeiss, NF, and S&B (no specific order). I know USO has had it's share of lemons and noone likes a dud. But how that company handles it's customer is another reason as to why USO has a fan base that loves them. I'm not saying S&B wont do the same as i haven't dealt with them. But from my experience and others USO will bend over backwards at their expense to help you out or make you happy. And i for one love that.

Point in que it's up to the OP to find out for himself.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: USO or S&B

QUESTION??? whats the best part about s&b customer service??

ANSWER-the fact that i have no idea how it is because i haven't ever had a single problem with the 3 i have owned. hell i don't even know the number.

I couldn't tell you how many times i called uso trying to figure out which variation of a reticle i got since they have different years. calls trying to figure out if my particular scope was moa or iphy. then there was the one about the shit in my reticle "just unmount it and smack it against a phonebook" you have got to be fucking kidding me "thats your technical advice". that was the last straw that broke the camels back, well that and my teammates scope magically lost zero by 5" overnight.

 

[Barfly]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TeamSendIt!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
then there was the one about the shit in my reticle "just unmount it and smack it against a phonebook" you have got to be fucking kidding me "thats your technical advice". that was the last straw that broke the camels back, well that and my teammates scope magically lost zero by 5" overnight. </div></div>

Haha. I was told the same thing. I did it, then boxed it up and sent the shit back.

 

[264win]

Re: USO or S&B

I have nothing against USO, but from the 3 I owned I was not impressed with the scopes or the customer service OR the fact that I needed to use the c/s on 2 of the 3 scopes.
Imho they are overpriced.
S&B is not in the same class as USO.

 

[Singlestack_Wonder]

Re: USO or S&B

My vote is S&B. For all the reason previously stated plus the fact that USO still has not developed the technology to produce daylight visible illumination in scopes used for both CQB and distance.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: USO or S&B

I have the opposite opinion of their illumination. Mine are all very bright and could be used as red dots....except they are all SN-3's. On high they are all brighter than my red dot sights...which of course is useless in a 10 or 17x scope so I never use more than 1 or 2 levels for low light.

 

[Carcajou]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have been told that a new illumination knob is in the works so S&B does listen. </div></div>

Rob,

A new illumination knob in the works ?

Well, that could change the "picture" quite a bit. Let's see what will come out of it.

Thanks,

Carcajou

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: USO or S&B


Huh? What's that you say? Maybe complete sentences?

Really; when choices get this close the choice will matter little, if any.

 

[Carcajou]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Huh? What's that you say? Maybe complete sentences?

Really; when choices get this close the choice will matter little, if any. </div></div>

Answer : if S&B decides to put its illumination knob with the other knobs in the middle of the scope, it would be great because it would give me access to the other reticles (among them their P4 Fein) without having to move my scope back on the rifle, which happens to be a Steyr Mannlicher SSG 69 and which happens to have integral 20 MOA receiver rails. No need to use Picatinny rails.

 

[Carcajou]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The illumination knob is tough with your set up of not being able to put the rings where ever you want but with a standard picatinny rail it's a non issue. Some lefties have problems with the bolt handle hitting as well. I have been told that a new illumination knob is in the works so S&B does listen. </div></div>

Sorry, I should have given you the entire paragraph, as written by Rob. My mistake.

Carcajou

 

[19818119]

Re: USO or S&B

Counter Sniper for the WIN

Get the US Gov. overruns whilst you still can...

 

[sickeness]

Re: USO or S&B

My experiences with USO mirror many of those who have already posted in this thread. I had 3, some had issues, were sent back and fixed. I do not own anymore of them. As much as I like the USO crew and the idea of having US-made products, I will not buy ones that are substandard and assembled haphazardly.

If you must have a US-made product, the newer Leupolds are very good from what I have seen.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: USO or S&B

They all break!!


http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2948408&gonew=1#UNREAD

I still want a Schmitty but just saying!!

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They all break!!


</div></div>

They do. Anything man made can. I don't think anyone has ever said they don't but some do more than others.

 

[11B-B4]

Re: USO or S&B

i have only had 2 USO's and one S&B... I like the features of the USO's being very custom, which is very nice for a particular shooter.

However I think most people if comparing glass side by side would say S&B is much better in that catagory.

I've never had a problem with USO's not tracking properly.

Also, I snapped a windage knob off my USO getting into a Humvee and they were very quick on repair. I have heard S&B takes AWHILE to get it back to germany for repair and turnaround.


But to sum it up, I would give S&B a slight edge overall.

However its not an american good either. And ive been on an american buying kick the past few years. I even bought my wife a US handbag since it was made in the US... cost alot more than Coach or Dooney and Burke, but its worth it to know its made in the US and the money is going back on mainstreet.

 

[chittnp]

Re: USO or S&B

USO offers a Military Discount, Im not sure if S&B does as well, but that definately swayed my decision.

 

[11B-B4]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TeamSendIt!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote s&b I have owned a few uso's and needless to say for economic reasons I am down to one match rifle and it is wearing a 5-25 s&b msr reticle. At this point I am not really even sure how you would improve much on the scope. </div></div>

Perfect reticle... i will someday swap out my 5-25 P4F for this.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: USO or S&B

S&B by far.

 

[Fjr86]

Re: USO or S&B

Does anyone have pictures of through the scope views of S&B and USo on 25x at extended distances so I can see the differences?

I am very curious to see how much better S&B does at lower light conditions.

 

[Rob01]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chittnp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO offers a Military Discount, Im not sure if S&B does as well, but that definately swayed my decision.</div></div>

S&B does offer a LE/Mil discount as well. Anyone needing contact info can drop me a PM.

FJ, through the scope pics are horrible at showing actual views. It's not a good way to choose a scope. They are fine at showing reticles but to get the actual look at what the scope looks like during use it should actually be looked through.

Put your location on your profile and maybe someone living near you will let you take a look.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have heard S&B takes AWHILE to get it back to germany for repair and turnaround.
</div></div>

That is old scoop from before the full service US center was up and running. They are in Ashburn, VA now and build scopes there and service. Doesn't take long at all now and they usually will give you a loaner scope while yours is in being fixed.

 

[B.Morgan]

Re: USO or S&B

I had an abused 20yr old S&B go down on me at a match. After the match I called and they said send it back (they paid shipping) and also sent me a loaner to use. I got the loaner in and had it mounted within 2 days of me contacting them! My scope was back in 4 days! No complaints with their CS at all. Buy an S&B with confidence. Alex or Jason with Euro Optic will hook you up.

 

[chittnp]

Re: USO or S&B

Thanks Rob, good to know

 

[Fjr86]

Re: USO or S&B

I think I am going to go with USO despite the reviews leaning towards S&B. With the reticle I am interested in, it is more cost effective for me to go with USO, and get a scope built to my wants/needs.

Thanks guys!

 

[vivaces]

Re: USO or S&B

I owned both but prefer s&b.

 

[Fjr86]

Re: USO or S&B

I am actually am deciding against USO and S&B and going with Premier with further research that I have done.

 

[CMonty256]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FJR86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am actually am deciding against USO and S&B and going with Premier with further research. </div></div>

Thats the issue I've been looking at... With PRs Light Tactical priced in the 2200s, I'm very tempted in picking one of them up. Not to jack the thread, but with a .308 and shooting less than 1000M, I reasonably only need 12mils of elevation and am willing to accept the 15x top end.

 

[aojones]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CMonty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FJR86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am actually am deciding against USO and S&B and going with Premier with further research. </div></div>

Thats the issue I've been looking at... With PRs Light Tactical priced in the 2200s, I'm very tempted in picking one of them up. Not to jack the thread, but with a .308 and shooting less than 1000M, I reasonably only need 12mils of elevation and am willing to accept the 15x top end. </div></div>

Cmonte,

This is what I thought, I recent traded in my USO 1.8- 10 SN3 for a Primer Light Tacticle and it should arrive Monday, it has better glass, more power and half the weight, it has 12mils of elevation that will get me to 1000 yard, what's not to like? By the way, my son-on-law is a pilot at Campbell as with the 101st--he files the Kiowa Warrior!

 

[CMonty256]

Re: USO or S&B

Nice, I'm a 60M guy, but for the upcoming deployment my company will be Task Organized under 2-17 CAV. Im getting ready to pull the trigger on a PR LT, just going through all the mental justifications... lol

 

[11B-B4]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CMonty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice, I'm a 60M guy, but for the upcoming deployment my company will be Task Organized under 2-17 CAV. Im getting ready to pull the trigger on a PR LT, just going through all the mental justifications... lol </div></div>


What are you planning on putting it on though?

As for bringing over personal kit though, make sure you bring a photocopy of the receipt as navy customs are a bitch. They will probably think its military kit and that you stole it. So you'll need a receipt. One matching the SN# would be best.

 

[justme]

Re: USO or S&B

Between the 2 you are going to pick from... You Can't Go Wrong !

Since "you" are plunkin down you're hard earned $$,$$$.$$ get the features "you" want... & to serve the purpose you are getting it for.

That said, I love my new MSR PM11

 

[taliv]

Re: USO or S&B

My experience with SBs service hasn't been nearly as good as pimps. I sent an email to them which wasn't returned. Then I called them and they just said send it in and told me it would be 3-4 weeks if it just needed an adjustment and longer if something was seriously wrong. No offer for free shipping. No loaner.

My SB doesn't track. And the parallax knob slips.


If you are a competition shooter you should support USO because they are supporting you. If "buy American" isn't enough reason then just look at the prize tables of almost every match. Just about every big match I've been to this year has had $2500 certificate on it from USO and its usually the first thing picked up off the table. That is a lot of support from such a small company. I cant recall seeing so much as a bumpersticker from SB at a match.

I'm ordering a scope right now to replace my SB and it is another USO. It will have the parallax knob on the right side with windage on the left. The reticle illumination is superior to SB because the entire reticle lights up (blue in my new scope) and that's important because you can't hold over for wind or elevation in the dark with a SB and unless you cover the knobs in lum tape or have a light you won't be able to dial either. . and the push button illum controls rock. My new scope will also have the Internal bubble level.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: USO or S&B

taliv-I agree 100%, esp on the support of the sport.
I have yet to go to a larger match where S&B put a scope on the table, and I have yet to go to a larger match where USO hasn't.

I saw S&B hats and cleaning cloths at NorCal in their defense though....

 

[jawa]

Re: USO or S&B

They may have problems pop up sometimes with their tracking, glass, etc... I have had 5 USO's and honestly the only problem I have had was one they were aware of in a certain scope run, and they went above and beyond to take of me.

Not only do I buy USO because of the "American" factor, but because of the way there company is ran. John and the rest of USO support the sport as Sobr said above, I have seen so many friggin USO certs for sale here on the hide is ridiculous. I cant say the same for S&B, Henny, or Premier. So just the same as they promote the quality of the shooting sport, the people who invest in their scopes promote the quality of USO.

So, whats good about USO?

I talk to the same people on the phone everyday, and they all remember who I am...(probably because I talk to them more than my own relatives)

They are continually working to speed up their process by adding new machines in the shop. They added a new glass inspection microscope in their clean room to improve on quality of glass going in their scopes. Im sure more are to follow.

They are continually revising their scopes and (reticles apparently) to improve the construction. I have called USO before and just randomly in a conversation Jeff has told me what their engineering team had planned for new scopes, turrets, etc...

Basically what every profitable company in the world does correct? They have a process, they see flaws, improve upon them and make a better product. I would rather see an american company succeed more than a foreign company, but maybe I'm just one of those Pro-American type...

 

[5RWill]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jawa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They may have problems pop up sometimes with their tracking, glass, etc... I have had 5 USO's and honestly the only problem I have had was one they were aware of in a certain scope run, and they went above and beyond to take of me.

Not only do I buy USO because of the "American" factor, but because of the way there company is ran. John and the rest of USO support the sport as Sobr said above, I have seen so many friggin USO certs for sale here on the hide is ridiculous. I cant say the same for S&B, Henny, or Premier. So just the same as they promote the quality of the shooting sport, the people who invest in their scopes promote the quality of USO.

So, whats good about USO?

I talk to the same people on the phone everyday, and they all remember who I am...(probably because I talk to them more than my own relatives)

They are continually working to speed up their process by adding new machines in the shop. They added a new glass inspection microscope in their clean room to improve on quality of glass going in their scopes. Im sure more are to follow.

They are continually revising their scopes and (reticles apparently) to improve the construction. I have called USO before and just randomly in a conversation Jeff has told me what their engineering team had planned for new scopes, turrets, etc...

Basically what every profitable company in the world does correct? They have a process, they see flaws, improve upon them and make a better product. I would rather see an american company succeed more than a foreign company, but maybe I'm just one of those Pro-American type... </div></div>

Couldn't agree more. Whenever i've had a question or needed anything at all USO and the crew didn't hesitate regardless of how stupid or little the question etc. Fact that's it's american also factors into my decision as well. Bottom line is USO goes above and beyond to take care of their customers and that is a rare quality of any company these days.

I'm not saying S&B doesn't as i wouldn't know.

 

[Fjr86]

Re: USO or S&B

In lieu of recent readings about Premier, I am going back with USOs line of optics.

Does anyone know if USO offers the Gen2XR reticle?

 

[jbailey]

Re: USO or S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FJR86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In lieu of recent readings about Premier, I am going back with USOs line of optics.

Does anyone know if USO offers the Gen2XR reticle? </div></div>

They sure do. It adds something like $50 to the cost of the reticle. Give the folks at USO a call and I'm sure they can walk you thru all the reticles that they offer. They are very helpful folks and will do what it takes to get your business and keep you happy.

 

[997/2man]

Re: USO or S&B

I knew heads were going to explode over this thread.

For me, USO. Why?

Parallax adjustment can be on either side. I'm left eye dominant.

S&B's illumination housing is in an awkward place.

USO's "uber build" scope construction.

EREK is slick, fast, do it in the dark.

A small U.S. company. When you call, they know your name , what you shoot (F-1, 3 gun, bench rest, etc.).

If you can't work with Jeff or Becky, you need to take a long look in the mirror.

They have sent me a scope, just try it, keep it if you want it, no obligation sort of thing.

Called one day, all pissy about length of time for an ordered scope. 8:00 p.m. Eastern, phone rings, JBW III calls to tell me that the scopes are almost ready for shipping. Wanted to know how I was, how shooting was going, etc.

I don't know how you could beat it. Own 6 USO's, sent one back, problem with mag ring, back to me in 2 weeks, no charge, Jeff gave me the USO Fedex acct number, shipping was free.
YMMV.