Rifle Scopes USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

mjsemtex

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i've come to a point where i think i've narrowed things down between the USO 3.2-17x44mm and Schmidt&Bender 4-16x42mm PMII.

putting one of these on top of a semi-auto .308 with an 18" barrel, hopefully being able to occasionally push things out to 1000 yards (if i'm feeling lucky) but, mostly shooting tactical style competition, etc. within the 100-600 yard range.

any advantages / disadvantages between these two?

the iron ridge upper i'm using has 23MOA built in which from everything i've read should make up for the lack of elevation in the S&B. am i wrong?

thanks.
 

seven mm

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Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

S&B service center is in NH.

As hydro stated it's a lot of personal preference, my preference is S&B though and therefore that's what I'd suggest. I prefer the optics, turrets, and reticles of S&B.
 

brand692

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Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRLars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flip a coin, they're both great optics. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seven mm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B service center is in NH. As hydro stated it's a lot of personal preference, </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personal preference IMO.</div></div>

Yup. What everyone else is saying.
 

Doc1911

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Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seven mm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B service center is in NH.

As hydro stated it's a lot of personal preference, my preference is S&B though and therefore that's what I'd suggest. I prefer the optics, turrets, and reticles of S&B. </div></div>+1
 

ggmanning

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I agree it's features. I prefer the Erek and reticles of the USOptics. They are both rugged and reliable.
     

    Every Day Gun Guy

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I have the USO 3.2-17x44mm Mil-Scale Canadian, all 1/10 mil adjustments with erek an #3 windage on top of a KMW .308 on an AICS and I couldn't be happier. Having said that I am having a hard time trying to decide to go with the USO again or try the Schmidt&Bender 4-16x42mm PMII on a .260 build that Roscoe is doing for me.

    I would really recommend the mil line reticle with either. It really helps me with leading the "Mover".
     

    D Baker

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I have both of these scopes and like them very much. Reticle choices would be the biggest decision and as everyone else has stated that is personal. I would also consider your application. My 4-16x42 is on a rifle that is mostly used for hunting. With Butler Creek caps on both, the S&B is just shy of 1/2 inch shorter. In my experience the S&B is a touch more handy when you also consider the obvious, albeit small objective size difference. Having said that...you can't go wrong with either one of those choices as quality is excellent in both.
     

    JRose

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I've been happy with my USO's, I think the SN3 is an awesome scope with lots of user choices. I personally prefer the EREK over the Schmidts turrets, although S&B's glass is amazing.

    Plus USO supports the shooting community heavily.
     

    mjsemtex

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    thank you for so many replies on this topic.

    as for reticles, in the USO i was considering the MIL Scale GAP or Mil Scale MPR and if i went S&B i would go with the P4L.

    if they were still doing the GENII XR in the S&B, that would surely be another positive for the schmidt.
     

    edwin907

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    These were the two scopes I was most interested in, and compared them day and night, with and without the AN/PVS-22 NV.
    I ended up with the USO, not because it was better but because it was a bit cheaper.
    I found the S&B had better "definition", but the USO seemed sharper. Larger objectives are available from both companies, but the 42-44mm is the "sweet" spot, not too large but big enough for low light performance without bulk.

    If you use Mils, the GAP is a great reticle, and I use the P4 in the Leupold MK4 spotter.
    I also have a USO SN-3 1.8-10X37 with the same turrets, reticle, as it's larger brother. Been very pleased with both.
     

    sickeness

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    To my eyes, the glass on the Schmidt is brighter and the turrets are undoubtedly sharper and more precise on the S&B. USO has better reticles, but S&B will be releasing scopes with the Klein reticle soon which is basically an improved Premier style Gen2.

    Here is a thread from a few months ago where several Snipershide members compared top name scopes in person and their findings, highly recommended reading.

    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1224033&page=3
     

    300WSM

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    uso tougher
    uso made in usa
    uso service is better
    uso erek knob is better
    uso windage knobs are better
    uso moa clicks with moa reticle if that is your cup of tea. Otherwise no difference with mil mil adjustments.
    uso better lit reticle knob placement
    uso left side windage if you want.
     

    300WSM

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    USO reticles don't obscure the image - ie. most S&B reticles the bars are huge

    USO entire reticle lights up

    S&B may have better glass depending on your eyes. I think USO is better.
     

    AlabamaShooter

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    300WSM, can you elaborate some more, I dont know if you made your point. HA!
    laugh.gif
    I am in the same boat, Ive got 3 USO's of different flavors and I foresee more in my future.
     

    Sapper524

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I went with USO for the following reasons

    Low Profile - EREK
    More reticle options / Fully illuminated Reticle
    Totally configurable
    Made in the USA !!!!

    S&B makes great optics - no question - all about what features your looking for
     

    Mo_Zam_Beek

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I have both. The glass on both are very good and it is subjective from there on in.

    USO - costs less.

    The EREK is smart design.

    CS - I have an older ST10 that recently developed tracking problems. I sent it back thinking it would be a simple fix. However they changed the design of the eye piece and no longer have parts. Next week I will have a new ST10 in my hands with an upgraded reticle - free of charge. No BS. No questions. Expedited build.

    American Made

    Board Supporter

    Good luck
     

    Ewen

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    one other small consideration (not so large now as S&B and USO make their scopes to go in either direction) but if you have other US scopes (NF Leoupold etc you may be more familiar with the direction of travel of the elevation and windage knobs on the USO. I would reccommend not having scopes which work in opposite directions.

    Regards

    Ewen
     

    mjsemtex

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO does have the Gen II XR available for instal.

    Cheers,

    Doc </div></div>

    doc,

    i dropped you a PM about this. thanks.
     

    mjsemtex

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    is there any reason it would be necessary to step up from the 30mm to the 34 or 35mm tubes for this application?
     

    Falar

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjsemtex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is there any reason it would be necessary to step up from the 30mm to the 34 or 35mm tubes for this application? </div></div>

    I would go with the 35mm tube on any SN-3 with more than 1.8-10x. The paperwork that came with my 3.2-17 w/30mm tube spec'd out 64 MOA of erector travel. It was enough for the gun I had it on (.308) to shoot to 1000 if need be but if you ever swap to a bigger gun and want to shoot farther in the future then you will be limited. The next 3.2-17 I have on order will have a 35mm tube and so will all future 3.2-17s "just in case".

    For comparison, my 1.8-10x w/30mm tube's build sheet specs 104moa of erector travel.
     

    Oodin

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and no longer have parts</div></div>
    I read this and thought "oh no, that's too bad"

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">free of charge</div></div>
    Then I read that and thought "WOW!!!!"

    That is no BS!!
     

    Mo_Zam_Beek

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    Yes - I got a PM from John here informing me they no longer had the parts and he said 'it will be a total rebuild so if there is anything you would like to change - now is the time'.

    FOR FREE - I was able to change from MOA EREK to MIL EREK and from their MIL Dot with brackets (which I really liked BTW) reticle to a GAP MIL line reticle.

    I have other optics from foreign lands - I hope none of them ever take a dump (but I am sure at some point in the future they will) as I do not want to have deal with the down time. It is nice to have USO right here in the good ol' USA.

    On the issue of tube size - really look at your application and the available range of adjustability. Likely 35mm is needlessly excessive. Optics (regardless of planning) seem to get swapped around between rifles over time. 30mm QD mounts and ring mounts are always floating around on the secondary market whereas 35's are few and far between.



    Good luck
     

    mjsemtex

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    i was originally leaning in the direction of the SN3 and am leaning even more in that direction.
     

    USMCj

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    34/35mm tube is not excessive when you have a rifle that could use all of the built in travel (7WSM, 338LM, 375CT, etc.)

    Plus, I really think 30mm USO's look anorexic
    laugh.gif
     

    300WSM

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    lmao 30mm uso do look anorexic spelling?
     

    Graham

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I have both. I use both. And I like both. But they are on much larger rifles. For that rifle, for its size and weight, and given your stated use for it, you might want to consider a fixed 10x SB PM II P3 Mil dot or an ST-10 with a Horus reticle.
     

    HOG0317

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">34/35mm tube is not excessive when you have a rifle that could use all of the built in travel (7WSM, 338LM, 375CT, etc.)

    Plus, I really think 30mm USO's look anorexic
    laugh.gif
    </div></div>

    What is the total elevation travel with the 34/35mm tubes on the 3.2-17x44? 3.8-22x44?
     

    JRose

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I can dial out to 1k with my 30mm tubed SN3 on my .308 shooting 185's on a 20 MOA base, you should be fine. Bigger tube would be nice to have, but not necessary, so I passed on it.
     

    300WSM

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    bigger tube is stronger. no?
     

    JRose

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bigger tube is stronger. no? </div></div>

    I've never worried about strength. I've dropped a 30mm tubed USO attached to a DPMS SASS 5 feet off a platform onto the obj and EREK knob once. Never skipped a beat....

    But yes, larger diameter tube is stronger.
     

    pklin1297

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    If I recall correctly from reading USO's website, I believe only the 35mm tube offers more elevation movement. The 34mm is a thicker tube but the ID is the same as 30mm thus it has the same amount of erector tube travel as the 30mm...

    That was the reason I ordered 35mm on mine.
    smile.gif


    Crazy to think when I first started shooting I thought 1" tubes were the standard and big enough for scopes...
     

    dan46n2

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I have both, well the S&B is a 5-25... The glass between the two is very close, low light should be about equal also, the S&B I have has a 56mm objective and that brings in slightly more light than the 44mm. Other than that it's really personal preference. USO can make a true custom scope but you'll have to wait for it to be made, about 6 months sometimes. Another consideration is price, the USO was cheaper... the only thing I can think of it weight and although I haven't weighed them I believe S&B is lighter, but the USO is made of thicker material in the tube for example. Both will stand up well to heavy use however.
     

    doc76251

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i wouldn't put either of those POS on any rifle of mine
    laugh.gif
    </div></div>

    Yeah, it's hard to find tacticool mounts for a Red Ryder
    grin.gif


    Cheers,

    Doc
     

    Graham

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i wouldn't put either of those POS on any rifle of mine
    laugh.gif
    </div></div>Yeah, it's hard to find tacticool mounts for a Red Ryder</div></div>Now that's funny!

    The 4-16x42 is smaller, and a very streamlined scope, but you can't ever mount it low enough to take advantage of the small objective. I do like the feel of it's positive adjustments, though.

    The USO is bigger and heavier, but has more custom options available.
     

    RayDBonz

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    Either would be a great choice. I've had both and a while back switched over to all S&B. Mainly for consistency. I wanted the knobs on all my scopes with the same direction of adjustment. As an added bonus, they all have the same reticle too!
     

    LoneWolfUSMC

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    I only have the USO SN-3. No S&B's yet. I really do enjoy using my SN-3 and I have kicked the crap out of it. No problems so far.

    I don't have any elevation issues on a .308 shooting 168's to 1000 yards.

    The only drawback to the EREK is it's not a quick to rezero as some other turrets. Not a big issue since you don't change zero often.
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    USO for the reasons 700WSM pretty well covered, plus the fact that I always see USO gift certificates that cover the entire cost of a SN3-1700 base model build on prize tables.

    I've seen a S&B hat on a prize table before......
     

    300WSM

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    700wsm? now there is a thought! is that like a shorter fatter 700 nitro express heh
     

    outlaws51

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    Both seem to be good optics. In my opinion the USO lacked eye relief and mine had a very thick mildot reticle and not so positive clicks. The S&B was a purchase I am yet to regret. Eye relief is perfect, great clarity,very positive clicks and excelent P4F reticle.
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Re: USO SN3 3.2-17x44 vs. S&B 4-16x42 PMII

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">700wsm? now there is a thought! is that like a shorter fatter 700 nitro express heh </div></div>

    I've been horrible with names lately, sorry.....

    I find the eye relief issue an odd complaint for USO's, I thinkthey are very forgiving.