Rifle Scopes USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

[stiletto raggio]

Here's the situation: I have decided to make a couple of investments in serious optics over the next couple years. I am buying a .50 and building a .260 and would like scopes that will hold up to hard use and be useful at the outside edge of each rifle's effective ranges.

Right now, the only "high end" scopes I have are a couple Leupolds (VXIII 6.5-20x50 and 4.5-14x40). Neither have target knobs, though one has Stoney Point aftermarket knobs. Both are serving me just fine, but neither is FFP, neither is illuminated, and all adjustments are 1/4 MOA. I am planning to go in a different direction for future purposes, namely mil/mil adjustments, true target knobs, and an illuminated reticle that uses hash marks rather than dots. The USO SN-3 3.2-17 and 3.8-22 both look tempting, but I don't want to "experiment" on features with a $2k+ scope. I am thinking of ordering an ST-10 as a "proof of concept," a scope with all the basic features I want except the variable power. By doing so, my initial investment will be $7-1400 cheaper than a SN-3 with similar features.

The other option is to get a Super Sniper HD 10x. It would allow me to get familiar with a mil/mil system and try my hand with a fixed ten power before plunking down the cash for a high-end variable. The downside is that it lacks the reticle I think I will prefer and does not have an illuminated reticle. Also, I am leaning toward an EREK elevation turret, and that is definitely different than the SS turret. Still, it will be several hundred dollars cheaper than the ST-10.

I don't have a hard and fast budget, but the more I spend on this first optic, the longer it will take to save up for the truly top-notch optics I ultimately want.
Recommendations? Experiences in a similar situation? Alternatives?

These are the specs on the ST-10 I was looking at.
Scope: ST-1000
Fixed - Standard Option
44mm Low Profile - Standard Option
EREK 1/10 MIL - 175.00
U.S. #1 M40 Style 1/10 MIL - 20.00
30mm - Standard Option
Matte Black Type III Hard Anodizing - Standard Option
Mil-Scale MPR - 86.00
11 Pos Rheostat (Green) - 185.00
Lo Profile Housing - Standard Option
Rapid Focus - Standard Option

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

if you're just wanting to try mil/mil, look into something like a bushnell elite 3200 10x mil/mil... or if you can't find that a Weaver tactical 3.5-10x, I think it is, mil/mil from Midway USA

 

[deadly0311]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

If you want to try Mil/Mil and FFP look at the 3-9 SWFA Super Sniper

 

[Redmanss]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HDC-Deadly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to try Mil/Mil and FFP look at the 3-9 SWFA Super Sniper</div></div> Great scope and definitely something that can carry you over until you can afford more.

We use the regular SWFA SS 10x on Barrett M-99s. They work well on them, so I'm sure the HD is the cat's ass and probably your best option on a budget. But.... 10x when you're saying you're wanting to stretch a 50 cal out to its limits will leave you wanting more (depending on target size). Consider that in selecting the scope for the big boy.

As for the USO on a budget, I'd say skip the extras for now like the EREK and illumination. They add up too fast and before you know it you might as well save a bit longer and "buy once, cry once". Choose your reticle, get mil knobs, get the ERGO and call it a day. So long as you have an illuminated body you can always send it back later and have that added on. Don't know about the EREK knob though but I'd call them to ask.

As always, scour the FS forum as there's gems popping up all the time in there to stretch your dollar even more. For a temporary scope that is the way I'd go.

 

[dmg308]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

If you want a mil/mil get a bushnell 4200 3-12 smokin scope for what they are going for now.You get everything you want less the hash mark reticle.

 

[KE5MUJ]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a mil/mil get a bushnell 4200 3-12 smokin scope for what they are going for now.You get everything you want less the hash mark reticle. </div></div>
what he said....

 

[JRose]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

The way you have that USO spec'd out will make it considerably more than a SS...

 

[map_it]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

I'm kind of struggling with the same concept....
Either going with a Fixed 10X like a ST10 or S&B PMII 10x-42 and adding a micro red dot for close up shots then you have the best of both worlds; but by the time all the costs are included you can almost get into a variable SN3 1.8-10X44. Decisions, Decisions.....

 

[steve123]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

I suggest getting a FFP variable to begin with vs a fixed power so you can see how the reticle looks as it gets bigger and smaller with magnification.When I get someone unfamiliar with FFP scopes behind one and they put it on a lower mag they usually tend to not like it as much as SFP scope at first.

Then there's the money aspect of the situation or shall I say the cost of this proof of concept experiment.If you think you are going to try the POC FFP scope and sell it in a few months then buying used is makes good sense.You might even make some money if you get it cheap enough or at least get all or most of your money back.

The Bushnell 3-12x44,if you can find one,is a good scope for such a experiment.

Another FFP Mil/Mil scope you can get pretty cheap used that would be fun to get used to with holdovers as well as dialing is a Horus Falcon 3-12.

Once you've used Mil/Mil FFP you'll probably never want to go back.To me it's a KISS system.I only have a few scopes left that are in MOA or IPHY.

 

[fdkay]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

When I decided to try enter the FFp mil/mil arena, I was a little hesitant. I wanted a good quality scope without spending a kings ransom.
I went with a Falcon Menace 4-14x with the enhanced mil-dot reticle. I put it on a fairly lightweight .308 (Savage 10PC) and proceeded to put it through a basic sniper course.

It held up just fine, every time I look through it, I am still very happy with the quality of the glass (taking price into consideration). The only thing I did to change it was to remove the turret caps, clean the heavy grease and lube with silicone spray. Now I have nice, audible and tactile click adjustments.

This was my "proof of concept", I am now a convertee to FFP mil/mil for tactical and hunting scopes and I only spent about 380 bucks on it. In my opinion, for long range paper punching on a KD range, a good SFP scope is hard to beat.

After using my Falcon, I upgraded to a 3-18x42 IOR FFP scope, of course, 3 weeks after I bought it, they releases the 3.5-18 illuminated model, but I am absolutely thrilled with my IOR. I would have happily shelled out the extra 300 for the digital illumination and larger objective.

I still have the Falcon, it is on my .223 tactical.

If you want to test the waters of FFP and don't want to break the bank, I would suggest the 5.5-25 model on your .260 and shoot it for a while.
THEN you can better decide what features you want on your USO and make a better informed decision. Just my opinion.

 

[Shooter21]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

Here is the deal, the only way to get THE scope that you are wanting is to dive into a USO, which obviously is going to be a bit spendy... the SS is going to be much less, BUT, it still doesn't have all the features that you want. I have put my eye on several MPRs from USO, inluding the one I had and there is no room for disappointment. That being said, if you have the glass picked out that you want, jump on it.
Buy once, cry once.... if you do for some odd reason decide you don't like the scope later on down the road you can sell it.

 

[LFOD1776]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

You mentioned you're getting a 50. If you mean a 50 BMG, then GET THE EXTENDED EYE RELIEF eyepiece! You'll thank me later.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

If you want the USO, buy the USO you want.

Unless you get some seriously dicked up configuration if you don't like it you can resell it.

If you don't know if you want a mil/mil scope then get a cheapie and play with it.

 

[stiletto raggio]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

I am aware that the ST-10, as configured, would cost significantly more than the SS. The only difference between it and the USOs I think I want is variable power and objective size, which is enough to make it far cheaper than the 3.2-17 or 3.8-22 versions. I figured that if I bought the ST-10 and liked it, I would be completely confident in buying the more expensive one with the same options, and, if I no longer had use for the ST-10, I could sell it with relatively little depreciation.

The Bushnell looks very promising, as do the Viper PST 4-16 and 6-24. The Viper more closely replicates all the features I am looking at. I had been wary of anything with the Bushnell name on it, but it seems to have gotten very good reviews here, and this is a place where I trust the reviews a little more than usual. Would the 6-24 be good as a competition scope? If I could use it on my F-Class rifle, I think that would be a good investment.

If I decide to go with the ST-10, I think it will probably end up either on my 20" .308 field rifle (which I am building in a couple of months) or on a semi-auto. I think I have ruled the SS out as I really have grown really partial to illuminated objectives. Also, this would not be my first FFP scope (I have a first gen SA 4.5-4x56 that confused me a lot when I first used it) but it will be my first mil/mil.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

Wait for a USO to pop up in the FS section at a decent price witht he features you want. Nab it. If you decide you don't like it or you upgrade to the variable power scope, you can sell it for right around what you bought it for... Makes more fiscal sense that way. You can get one pretty well spec'd the way you mentioned for right around $1000 used.

 

[fasteddie44]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

I was there 1 month ago, I went with the ST-10 despite being a fixed 10x. I found exactly what I wanted (Erek, Illum, mil/mil....) @ Gunbroker. The scope section here also has alot of good deals. Could not be happier great optics, built tough and tracks very well. It found a home on my P308

On another note the Vortex PST 4-16x50 will be next for my bolt gun.
Hope this helps.

 

[stiletto raggio]

Re: USO ST-10 "Proof of Concept" versus SS HD 10x

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I will be setting aside some deployment pay for an ST-10 and keeping my eyes peeled for deals around here.