Van Orden Winchester M-70 's

[GBMaryland]

apparently for a period of time you could actually order them and get your own civilian copy of the military rifle. Which is kind of cool actually… Complete with a non-checkered heavy military stock, and whatever scope they had available at the time.

 

[m1marty]

according to the draftee, there were civilian versions that were made that were copies of the military versions were and sporters that were made to be like them.

apparently it wasn’t altogether unheard of to have a Lyman scope on the rifle as well in the military versions.

Lyman STS 12x and 20x were used by the USMC a good bit. I managed to get the records for my 12x showing USMC purchase in 1967

 

[Charger442]

Came across this in my gun browsing. Scope looks legit, but does the serial number range look legit as a USMC sniper? i thought everything was in the 200-300k serial range?

Winchester, USMC Sniper, Mod. 70 Heavy Weight Target Rifle .30-06 w/ USMC Scope, SN: 409738 for sale

Winchester, USMC Sniper, Mod. 70 Heavy Weight Target Rifle .30-06 w/ USMC Scope, SN: 409738 for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[Random Guy]

That rifle looks like a possible military match rifle from 1957, but what branch used it - is unknown. It is way too nice to have ever been used as an actual sniper rifle in Vietnam. It still has its Winchester barrel, which is interesting. The scope looks like a legit USMC target rifle scope, but that scope was not the kind used in Vietnam. For the price being asked, I'd send CMP a check for $25 to see if was sold/auctioned by them in the past. I'll defer to CplNorton who has researched the M70 topic at the USMC archives. I lean towards a late 1950s match rifle for high-power matches.

 

[Charger442]

That rifle looks like a possible military match rifle from 1957, but what branch used it - is unknown. It is way too nice to have ever been used as an actual sniper rifle in Vietnam. It still has its Winchester barrel, which is interesting. The scope looks like a legit USMC target rifle scope, but that scope was not the kind used in Vietnam. For the price being asked, I'd send CMP a check for $25 to see if was sold/auctioned by them in the past. I'll defer to CplNorton who has researched the M70 topic at the USMC archives. I lean towards a late 1950s match rifle for high-power matches.

but it thought in the 50s-60s, most of the military match rifles were the 300 H&H? atleast thats what they were shooting for the Wimbledon Cup...

 

[Random Guy]

but it thought in the 50s-60s, most of the military match rifles were the 300 H&H? atleast thats what they were shooting for the Wimbledon Cup...

All I know is that an M70 won big time at Camp Perry in 1952, and for the next decade Winchester (and Van Orden) sold a bunch of M70s in 30-06 that were used at National matches by military teams and civilians. I don't know enough about the military using 300 H&H for matches, but I have never seen a "US Property" marked M70 in that caliber. Did they exist? Sure, but I only recall 30-06 versions being sold-off by CMP. Others will know more...

I think this is a 1954 ad:

The "NM" M70 was only made in 30-06

This bull gun came on 300 H&H, forgot what year this ad is, maybe 1953 or 55?

 

[Charger442]

of course, the national match rifle from Winchester had to be a 30-06, because it had to be in military used calibers, right? 300 H&H never had military service?

maybe i shouldnt have said "most military match rifles" in 300 h&H when i was actually referring to the 1000 yard match at the Wimbledon Cup.

From Ben Comforts first win with a Magnum in 1935, only two times has a 30-06 won it, 1953 and 1963.

 

[cplnorton]

Random Guy is right, I don't have any doubt this is just a match rifle from the late 50's.

I found the docs for Army Ordnance where they ordered several hundred Model 70's in the mid to late 50's. These are the US Property ones you see the CMP sell in the 300/400k serial range. Unfortunately when you get into the Vietnam Sniper Docs for the Army, the Army never used these M70 Target rifles as snipers.

For the Marines all I see in this era is the Marines buying loose barrels to rebarrel the M70 rifles they already have.

I personally don't think this rifle was ever a sniper rifle, so to me the value would just be as a team/competition/range rifle. I also am not a fan of that USMC marking on the scope. That would be way too easy to fake. Without some provenance and/or records that states that Lyman serial was in the Marines, I would be very hard pressed to pay any premium for the scope.