Varget and Lapua brass?
- Thread starter Trigger Monkey
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Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is 43.5 grains of Varget pushing a 175 SMK to 2700 fps a "stiff" load for Lapua brass? </div></div>
You must have a very long barrel if you expect to get 2700FPS from a .308 with a 175SMK and 43.5gr of Varget. For a 24 inch barrel, the Hodgdon website show it more like 2600FPS and no, it's not a "stiff" load, it's actually a middle of the road load, half way between min and max.
You are talking about .308, right?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is 43.5 grains of Varget pushing a 175 SMK to 2700 fps a "stiff" load for Lapua brass? </div></div>
You must have a very long barrel if you expect to get 2700FPS from a .308 with a 175SMK and 43.5gr of Varget. For a 24 inch barrel, the Hodgdon website show it more like 2600FPS and no, it's not a "stiff" load, it's actually a middle of the road load, half way between min and max.
You are talking about .308, right?
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
Its not a stiff load. I dont use Varget right now but I load 44.3 grs of IMR 4895 and I am pushing 175 smk's round 2650~2700 fps with a 24" barrel.
Its not a stiff load. I dont use Varget right now but I load 44.3 grs of IMR 4895 and I am pushing 175 smk's round 2650~2700 fps with a 24" barrel.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
Sig685,
I have a shooting buddy on this site who is getting 2700 with 43.7gr Varget and 2610fps with 42.5gr shooting a 25" Kreiger and that's with black hills brass. 43.5gr and 2700 is possible especially with lapua. From my data the Lapua gives me about 30-35fps more velocity than my Hornady Match brass which is slightly lighter than Black Hills.
That being said, it takes me 45+ grains of Varget with Lapua brass to get remotely close to 2700 with my 21.75 inch Rock barrel....
Sig685,
I have a shooting buddy on this site who is getting 2700 with 43.7gr Varget and 2610fps with 42.5gr shooting a 25" Kreiger and that's with black hills brass. 43.5gr and 2700 is possible especially with lapua. From my data the Lapua gives me about 30-35fps more velocity than my Hornady Match brass which is slightly lighter than Black Hills.
That being said, it takes me 45+ grains of Varget with Lapua brass to get remotely close to 2700 with my 21.75 inch Rock barrel....
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
To be fair, I don't use the 175SMK, I find the BC to be too low for me. I use 180gr JLKs and with 44.5gr of Varget, I launch them at 2840FPS. I use Lapua brass, of course.
To be fair, I don't use the 175SMK, I find the BC to be too low for me. I use 180gr JLKs and with 44.5gr of Varget, I launch them at 2840FPS. I use Lapua brass, of course.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I use a 24" Rock barrel and that thing is FAST.
I don't consider that a "stiff" load either but the back story is that I was using that recipe for a while and only getting one or two firings out of it before the primer pockets got too loose. I also had several pieces of virgin brass that started getting gas leaks around the primer pockets when I was at a match. So needless to say I'm pretty disappointed in the brass up to this point and switched back to the stash of Black Hills once fired brass that I have. BTW I'm getting the same velocity out of the BH brass with only .2 grains more Varget...go figure. After reading a couple of posts here about people having issues with their Lapua brass I contacted Lapua today to see what could be done. While they were courteous about the whole deal I was told that my recipe was pretty "stiff" for a 175 gr load and that LC only loads to 2600 bla...bla...bla. Personally I thought that was just a BS CYA statement the tech made as a way to get out of replacing the brass but they told me to send a few pieces in and they'll check them out. We'll see what happens but I just wanted to get some second opinions on this "stiff" 175 gr load lol.
I use a 24" Rock barrel and that thing is FAST.
I don't consider that a "stiff" load either but the back story is that I was using that recipe for a while and only getting one or two firings out of it before the primer pockets got too loose. I also had several pieces of virgin brass that started getting gas leaks around the primer pockets when I was at a match. So needless to say I'm pretty disappointed in the brass up to this point and switched back to the stash of Black Hills once fired brass that I have. BTW I'm getting the same velocity out of the BH brass with only .2 grains more Varget...go figure. After reading a couple of posts here about people having issues with their Lapua brass I contacted Lapua today to see what could be done. While they were courteous about the whole deal I was told that my recipe was pretty "stiff" for a 175 gr load and that LC only loads to 2600 bla...bla...bla. Personally I thought that was just a BS CYA statement the tech made as a way to get out of replacing the brass but they told me to send a few pieces in and they'll check them out. We'll see what happens but I just wanted to get some second opinions on this "stiff" 175 gr load lol.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I can't get Super Fast velocities with the 175 and Varget but IMR4064 gives me 2730 with 43.3gr, and I can get 2730 with 43.8gr with Re-15 (hot load for me in 95+ temps). This is with Lapua brass and a 21.75" Rock barrel.
Sig685, what barrel, and barrel length are you running?
I can't get Super Fast velocities with the 175 and Varget but IMR4064 gives me 2730 with 43.3gr, and I can get 2730 with 43.8gr with Re-15 (hot load for me in 95+ temps). This is with Lapua brass and a 21.75" Rock barrel.
Sig685, what barrel, and barrel length are you running?
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
Trigger monkey...
PM LapuaUSA here on the Hide..
That is Adam Braverman. He is the Lapua Representative here in the USA, and he is a good dude.
-Wil
Trigger monkey...
PM LapuaUSA here on the Hide..
That is Adam Braverman. He is the Lapua Representative here in the USA, and he is a good dude.
-Wil
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
Thanks Wil but I already talked to Adam and Kevin Thomas today...even got their digits.
Thanks Wil but I already talked to Adam and Kevin Thomas today...even got their digits.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
not for mine. im getting 2745 out my 26" krieger with 44 grains of varget.
not for mine. im getting 2745 out my 26" krieger with 44 grains of varget.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I run that shit hotter than that... and all their sponsored shooters do too...and they know it...lol
I run that shit hotter than that... and all their sponsored shooters do too...and they know it...lol
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
300...but I sold off the last two unopened boxes that I had to get 500 pieces of once fired Black Hills to add to the 400+ that I already had sitting around so it's not like I'm hurting.
300...but I sold off the last two unopened boxes that I had to get 500 pieces of once fired Black Hills to add to the 400+ that I already had sitting around so it's not like I'm hurting.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
Nah I'm good to go...I appreciate the willingness to help though. I'm going to go play with density altitude data cards now. Have a good one.
Nah I'm good to go...I appreciate the willingness to help though. I'm going to go play with density altitude data cards now. Have a good one.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I've had some issues with Lapua brass too. I've been shooting 175 SMKs out of my Bartlein 5R 25" barrel. I've clocked mv's between 2740 and 2770 (seems to go up toward the end of the string after about 20 shots). I shot a match in April and by the time I was at around shot #70 I started to notice a sticky bolt lift. When I inspected my brass I had some pretty marked up case heads by the ejector, sometimes even obliterating the writing on the case head. My load was 44.4 gr Varget behind 175gr SMK seated to 10 thousands off the lands. It was my second loading of the brass. I have subsequently noticed loose primer pockets on some of the brass, but haven't tried firing them again. Is the brass soft and needs a softer load for the 1st 3 loadings before it can handle this kind of load? I'm disappointed.
I've had some issues with Lapua brass too. I've been shooting 175 SMKs out of my Bartlein 5R 25" barrel. I've clocked mv's between 2740 and 2770 (seems to go up toward the end of the string after about 20 shots). I shot a match in April and by the time I was at around shot #70 I started to notice a sticky bolt lift. When I inspected my brass I had some pretty marked up case heads by the ejector, sometimes even obliterating the writing on the case head. My load was 44.4 gr Varget behind 175gr SMK seated to 10 thousands off the lands. It was my second loading of the brass. I have subsequently noticed loose primer pockets on some of the brass, but haven't tried firing them again. Is the brass soft and needs a softer load for the 1st 3 loadings before it can handle this kind of load? I'm disappointed.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be fair, I don't use the 175SMK, I find the BC to be too low for me. I use 180gr JLKs and with 44.5gr of Varget, I launch them at 2840FPS. I use Lapua brass, of course. </div></div>
You better get your chrono fixed if you think you're getting that velocity with a 180 grain bullet in a .308.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be fair, I don't use the 175SMK, I find the BC to be too low for me. I use 180gr JLKs and with 44.5gr of Varget, I launch them at 2840FPS. I use Lapua brass, of course. </div></div>
You better get your chrono fixed if you think you're getting that velocity with a 180 grain bullet in a .308.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You better get your chrono fixed if you think you're getting that velocity with a 180 grain bullet in a .308. </div></div>
Funny, it was a little high at 1000 yards using that velocity in JBM. I had to take off a few MOAs on the scope. I think I reduced the BC value a bit too much.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You better get your chrono fixed if you think you're getting that velocity with a 180 grain bullet in a .308. </div></div>
Funny, it was a little high at 1000 yards using that velocity in JBM. I had to take off a few MOAs on the scope. I think I reduced the BC value a bit too much.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I just ran your load through QuickLoad and it doesn't look "stiff" at all. I think you've got a little more room to speed it up if you like (standard disclaimers apply). YMMV.
Here is the data I used for reference:
175gr Sierra MK HPBT
308 Win brass
Hodgdon Varget 43.5gr powder
OAL 2.800"
24" barrel
Load results:
Pressure = 56,076 (Max SAAMI pressures 60,000)
Projected muzzle velocity = 2631fps
98.69% powder burn
I just ran your load through QuickLoad and it doesn't look "stiff" at all. I think you've got a little more room to speed it up if you like (standard disclaimers apply). YMMV.
Here is the data I used for reference:
175gr Sierra MK HPBT
308 Win brass
Hodgdon Varget 43.5gr powder
OAL 2.800"
24" barrel
Load results:
Pressure = 56,076 (Max SAAMI pressures 60,000)
Projected muzzle velocity = 2631fps
98.69% powder burn
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I wouldn't consider that a "stiff load". I run 44.6 gn in Lapua w/ the 175's and don't see much for pressure signs. I'm only getting 2650 fps though from my 22' barrel.
I wouldn't consider that a "stiff load". I run 44.6 gn in Lapua w/ the 175's and don't see much for pressure signs. I'm only getting 2650 fps though from my 22' barrel.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I'm running 44.8 of Varget at 2746 with outstanding accuracy 24" barrel Savage 10FCP.
I'm running 44.8 of Varget at 2746 with outstanding accuracy 24" barrel Savage 10FCP.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
308 WIN
175 Berger VLD
Lapua Brass
44.0 Varget
Fed210M
AVG 2725 FPS via 25" Schnieder (M40A3)
For conversation-
308 WIN
175 SMK
Black Hills Match Brass
43.5 Varget
Fed210M
AVG 2672FPS via 25" Schnieder (M40A1)
308 WIN
175 Berger VLD
Lapua Brass
44.0 Varget
Fed210M
AVG 2725 FPS via 25" Schnieder (M40A3)
For conversation-
308 WIN
175 SMK
Black Hills Match Brass
43.5 Varget
Fed210M
AVG 2672FPS via 25" Schnieder (M40A1)
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Wil but I already talked to Adam and Kevin Thomas today...even got their digits. </div></div>
They gonna replace it? They replaced a box for me. Loose primer pockets after oooo 3-4 firings with an H4895 test load I was dicking around with.
I bet they'll hook you up.
My LC doesn't seem to loosen up. Pockets hold up better I would say from what I have seen so far.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Wil but I already talked to Adam and Kevin Thomas today...even got their digits. </div></div>
They gonna replace it? They replaced a box for me. Loose primer pockets after oooo 3-4 firings with an H4895 test load I was dicking around with.
I bet they'll hook you up.
My LC doesn't seem to loosen up. Pockets hold up better I would say from what I have seen so far.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I use 44.6 Varget, 175 SMK, 3 thou off the lands, Lapua brass. It is on the warm side...but accurate. (24" Savage 308 FCP-10) CCI & GMM primers still ok after 4-5 firings/ snug. Win primers seem "looser" going into the primer pockets.
A good long range load. I'm now dropping the charge, & got some 155's comming to save barrel life (& brass) when shooting 1-200 yds paper targets.
It is believed that a load at app.65,000 SAMMI pressure (44.6 Varget, 90F )will wear out the barrel throat alot faster. I realize that the barrel is the cheaper part in the big picture...but why replace it at 1000-1500 rds, when there are ways to go 5-6000 rds?? My idea is to back off, work on shooting basics, & use the hotter loads when needed.
I use 44.6 Varget, 175 SMK, 3 thou off the lands, Lapua brass. It is on the warm side...but accurate. (24" Savage 308 FCP-10) CCI & GMM primers still ok after 4-5 firings/ snug. Win primers seem "looser" going into the primer pockets.
A good long range load. I'm now dropping the charge, & got some 155's comming to save barrel life (& brass) when shooting 1-200 yds paper targets.
It is believed that a load at app.65,000 SAMMI pressure (44.6 Varget, 90F )will wear out the barrel throat alot faster. I realize that the barrel is the cheaper part in the big picture...but why replace it at 1000-1500 rds, when there are ways to go 5-6000 rds?? My idea is to back off, work on shooting basics, & use the hotter loads when needed.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
I use 44.6 Varget, 175 SMK, 3 thou off the lands, Lapua brass. It is on the warm side...but accurate. (24" Savage 308 FCP-10) CCI & GMM primers still ok after 4-5 firings/ snug. Win primers seem "looser" going into the primer pockets.
A good long range load. I'm now dropping the charge, & got some 155's comming to save barrel life (& brass) when shooting 1-200 yds paper targets.
It is believed that a load at app.65,000 SAMMI pressure (44.6 Varget, 90F )will wear out the barrel throat alot faster. I realize that the barrel is the cheaper part in the big picture...but why replace it at 1000-1500 rds, when there are ways to go 5-6000 rds?? My idea is to back off, work on shooting basics, & use the hotter loads when needed.
I use 44.6 Varget, 175 SMK, 3 thou off the lands, Lapua brass. It is on the warm side...but accurate. (24" Savage 308 FCP-10) CCI & GMM primers still ok after 4-5 firings/ snug. Win primers seem "looser" going into the primer pockets.
A good long range load. I'm now dropping the charge, & got some 155's comming to save barrel life (& brass) when shooting 1-200 yds paper targets.
It is believed that a load at app.65,000 SAMMI pressure (44.6 Varget, 90F )will wear out the barrel throat alot faster. I realize that the barrel is the cheaper part in the big picture...but why replace it at 1000-1500 rds, when there are ways to go 5-6000 rds?? My idea is to back off, work on shooting basics, & use the hotter loads when needed.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nietzsche73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't consider that a "stiff load". I run 44.6 gn in Lapua w/ the 175's and don't see much for pressure signs. I'm only getting 2650 fps though from my 22' barrel. </div></div>
That sounds like a solid load, even for 1000 yards. The place I shoot 1000 yards in North Texas, at 85F temperature, show that load at Mach 1.132 at 1000 yards. Next weekend I'll be testing 43 and 43.5 Varget, with 175SMK out of a stock 700 5R. If I can work up the load to 2650, and still show good 100 yard accuracy, I'm going to test it at 500/1000 yards. It just might become my next 1000 yard magic pill.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nietzsche73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't consider that a "stiff load". I run 44.6 gn in Lapua w/ the 175's and don't see much for pressure signs. I'm only getting 2650 fps though from my 22' barrel. </div></div>
That sounds like a solid load, even for 1000 yards. The place I shoot 1000 yards in North Texas, at 85F temperature, show that load at Mach 1.132 at 1000 yards. Next weekend I'll be testing 43 and 43.5 Varget, with 175SMK out of a stock 700 5R. If I can work up the load to 2650, and still show good 100 yard accuracy, I'm going to test it at 500/1000 yards. It just might become my next 1000 yard magic pill.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
You will have better long range results running the 190 SMK out of your .308 at 2600 to 2650 fps. I've been using IMR 4350 at 2600 fps but a friend has been using Varget at 2650 fps. You need to be really precise wiht your loads at this point.
You will have better long range results running the 190 SMK out of your .308 at 2600 to 2650 fps. I've been using IMR 4350 at 2600 fps but a friend has been using Varget at 2650 fps. You need to be really precise wiht your loads at this point.
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will have better long range results running the 190 SMK out of your .308 at 2600 to 2650 fps. I've been using IMR 4350 at 2600 fps but a friend has been using Varget at 2650 fps. You need to be really precise wiht your loads at this point. </div></div>
I have the Remington 5R, and can't imagine how much pressure would result from trying to get 190SMK at 2600. Can you say Gamble?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will have better long range results running the 190 SMK out of your .308 at 2600 to 2650 fps. I've been using IMR 4350 at 2600 fps but a friend has been using Varget at 2650 fps. You need to be really precise wiht your loads at this point. </div></div>
I have the Remington 5R, and can't imagine how much pressure would result from trying to get 190SMK at 2600. Can you say Gamble?
Re: Varget and Lapua brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yoda</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use 44.6 Varget, 175 SMK, 3 thou off the lands, Lapua brass. It is on the warm side...but accurate. (24" Savage 308 FCP-10) CCI & GMM primers still ok after 4-5 firings/ snug. Win primers seem "looser" going into the primer pockets.
A good long range load. I'm now dropping the charge, & got some 155's comming to save barrel life (& brass) when shooting 1-200 yds paper targets.
It is believed that a load at app.65,000 SAMMI pressure (44.6 Varget, 90F )will wear out the barrel throat alot faster. I realize that the barrel is the cheaper part in the big picture...but why replace it at 1000-1500 rds, when there are ways to go 5-6000 rds?? My idea is to back off, work on shooting basics, & use the hotter loads when needed. </div></div>
What velocity are you getting? I have a similar setup. Savage 10, but 44.5 gr.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yoda</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use 44.6 Varget, 175 SMK, 3 thou off the lands, Lapua brass. It is on the warm side...but accurate. (24" Savage 308 FCP-10) CCI & GMM primers still ok after 4-5 firings/ snug. Win primers seem "looser" going into the primer pockets.
A good long range load. I'm now dropping the charge, & got some 155's comming to save barrel life (& brass) when shooting 1-200 yds paper targets.
It is believed that a load at app.65,000 SAMMI pressure (44.6 Varget, 90F )will wear out the barrel throat alot faster. I realize that the barrel is the cheaper part in the big picture...but why replace it at 1000-1500 rds, when there are ways to go 5-6000 rds?? My idea is to back off, work on shooting basics, & use the hotter loads when needed. </div></div>
What velocity are you getting? I have a similar setup. Savage 10, but 44.5 gr.
