Re: Variable Wind
I am in the airport later I will post a screen shot.
I am in the airport later I will post a screen shot.
Advanced Marksmanship Variable Wind
- Thread starter jac74
- Start date
Re: Variable Wind
If you guys read LL's statement here...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the mountains you have to look at segments of flight as its own leg, then using software that knows how to handle it, you add In your values and Calculate a solution. </div></div>
You can better understand my statement here....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer to dial half in these conditions for reasons best left for another discussion. If I use purely a hold I'll also use only half the value.</div></div>
Looking at segments of flight not only applies in the mountains, but in flat areas where you're dealing with trees that can steer or block the wind. My method (one that I don't fully understand yet given my relative inexperience) is my way of compensating for the effects present during different legs of flight. It's nowhere near as accurate as software but it does increas my hit percentage dramatically in intermittent winds because it gives me a "slop factor" that to a degree will factor in what LL is talking about.
I think my new method is going to be this software.
If you guys read LL's statement here...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the mountains you have to look at segments of flight as its own leg, then using software that knows how to handle it, you add In your values and Calculate a solution. </div></div>
You can better understand my statement here....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer to dial half in these conditions for reasons best left for another discussion. If I use purely a hold I'll also use only half the value.</div></div>
Looking at segments of flight not only applies in the mountains, but in flat areas where you're dealing with trees that can steer or block the wind. My method (one that I don't fully understand yet given my relative inexperience) is my way of compensating for the effects present during different legs of flight. It's nowhere near as accurate as software but it does increas my hit percentage dramatically in intermittent winds because it gives me a "slop factor" that to a degree will factor in what LL is talking about.
I think my new method is going to be this software.
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'd also include the USAMU in your list of reputable trainers. I've assisted the USAMU in their training of Soldiers participating in the SDM program before the program even had a name. The advice I've given here are not my notions but doctrine on the matter from the USAMU. All of what I've alluded to can be found in any version of the SDM curriculum. On the other hand, your statements have only proven that you know nothing about good shooting, so, no matter how you present your ideas, it's still just misinformation. </div></div>
The SDM curriculum is just that...curriculum. A book that must be correctly interpreted by a <span style="text-decoration: underline">teacher</span> that actually knows how to teach, and understands the notion that a student doesn't learn merely because they've been taught... A concept that wouldn't get lost on a real instructor or teacher, like it's been lost on you. There's a reason that some only "assist" in training and its largely becaue they're not quite ready to drive the boat.
The only misinformation I see here is that which spews relentlessly from your pie hole. My advice to you would be...if you find yourself in a hole it would be wise to stop digging.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'd also include the USAMU in your list of reputable trainers. I've assisted the USAMU in their training of Soldiers participating in the SDM program before the program even had a name. The advice I've given here are not my notions but doctrine on the matter from the USAMU. All of what I've alluded to can be found in any version of the SDM curriculum. On the other hand, your statements have only proven that you know nothing about good shooting, so, no matter how you present your ideas, it's still just misinformation. </div></div>
The SDM curriculum is just that...curriculum. A book that must be correctly interpreted by a <span style="text-decoration: underline">teacher</span> that actually knows how to teach, and understands the notion that a student doesn't learn merely because they've been taught... A concept that wouldn't get lost on a real instructor or teacher, like it's been lost on you. There's a reason that some only "assist" in training and its largely becaue they're not quite ready to drive the boat.
The only misinformation I see here is that which spews relentlessly from your pie hole. My advice to you would be...if you find yourself in a hole it would be wise to stop digging.
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A wise shooter will get training from someone who actually knows how to do it. There is no benefit to the blind leading the blind, except perhaps for someone who gets his kicks observing the farce. I watch winners not losers.
One more thing, a new shooter who abandons what is not working may be abandoning what is simply unnatural. For example, a correct position may be initially unnatural. This is why a highly qualified mentor/coach can help folks off to a good start. Those who go it alone may chase their tails. </div></div>
And they do get training. Lots of it. From reputable organizations such as Trace Armory, Rifles Only, K&M, and right here on SH. The caveat here is that most are looking for a teacher or instructor, not a lecturer …a distinct difference you’d be wise to grasp.
It is good advice though, some you may wish to consider yourself. After all things have changed (equipment, methods, etc) since you and the flintlock have retired. There are many training agencies previously mentioned that could bring you up to speed
</div></div> I think you'd also include the USAMU in your list of reputable trainers. I've assisted the USAMU in their training of Soldiers participating in the SDM program before the program even had a name. The advice I've given here are not my notions but doctrine on the matter from the USAMU. All of what I've alluded to can be found in any version of the SDM curriculum. On the other hand, your statements have only proven that you know nothing about good shooting, so, no matter how you present your ideas, it's still just misinformation. </div></div>
Your arrogance knows no bounds.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A wise shooter will get training from someone who actually knows how to do it. There is no benefit to the blind leading the blind, except perhaps for someone who gets his kicks observing the farce. I watch winners not losers.
One more thing, a new shooter who abandons what is not working may be abandoning what is simply unnatural. For example, a correct position may be initially unnatural. This is why a highly qualified mentor/coach can help folks off to a good start. Those who go it alone may chase their tails. </div></div>
And they do get training. Lots of it. From reputable organizations such as Trace Armory, Rifles Only, K&M, and right here on SH. The caveat here is that most are looking for a teacher or instructor, not a lecturer …a distinct difference you’d be wise to grasp.
It is good advice though, some you may wish to consider yourself. After all things have changed (equipment, methods, etc) since you and the flintlock have retired. There are many training agencies previously mentioned that could bring you up to speed
Your arrogance knows no bounds.
Re: Variable Wind
You've been on the move, you're hunting.
Typical elk terrain.
All of a sudden, there he is THE B&C WORLD RECORD elk at 530 yards.
He's winded you and is looking as if he's about to take the high road.
OK, you have about 30 seconds to take the shot.
What method do you use?
You've been on the move, you're hunting.
Typical elk terrain.
All of a sudden, there he is THE B&C WORLD RECORD elk at 530 yards.
He's winded you and is looking as if he's about to take the high road.
OK, you have about 30 seconds to take the shot.
What method do you use?
Re: Variable Wind
I could throw a stone and hit it at that distance , to easy .
Guys , now were making good ground and some great answers for discussion !
I am lucky enough to have a Nomad with Patagonia on it but even tho Gus's program can do the math you as an individual must be able to recognize the conditions happening all around you to be able to input the info .
Wind and the effects that Terrain have on it's path of movement is for me by far the most interesting discussion a shooter can have - how far will you take us into this discussion Frank before were in online training territory as I would like to know more about the effects different terrain has on the wind
I could throw a stone and hit it at that distance , to easy .
Guys , now were making good ground and some great answers for discussion !
I am lucky enough to have a Nomad with Patagonia on it but even tho Gus's program can do the math you as an individual must be able to recognize the conditions happening all around you to be able to input the info .
Wind and the effects that Terrain have on it's path of movement is for me by far the most interesting discussion a shooter can have - how far will you take us into this discussion Frank before were in online training territory as I would like to know more about the effects different terrain has on the wind
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wind and the effects that Terrain have on it's path of movement is for me by far the most interesting discussion a shooter can have - how far will you take us into this discussion Frank before were in online training territory as I would like to know more about the effects different terrain has on the wind </div></div>
Not to steal LL's thunder as he is light years beyond me but what helped me understand the wind/terrain relationship was my knowlege of water. I spent a good part of my life either in it, under it, or on it. If you have a river or stream nearby go watch it for awhile. Even though it largely flows in one direction, if you look at where the river bends or near obstacles you'll see that it doesn't <span style="font-style: italic">only </span>flow in <span style="font-style: italic">one</span> direction. It can even flow backwards in localized areas and you'll see the swirls and eddys. Viewing the wind as a fluid helps me understand it better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wind and the effects that Terrain have on it's path of movement is for me by far the most interesting discussion a shooter can have - how far will you take us into this discussion Frank before were in online training territory as I would like to know more about the effects different terrain has on the wind </div></div>
Not to steal LL's thunder as he is light years beyond me but what helped me understand the wind/terrain relationship was my knowlege of water. I spent a good part of my life either in it, under it, or on it. If you have a river or stream nearby go watch it for awhile. Even though it largely flows in one direction, if you look at where the river bends or near obstacles you'll see that it doesn't <span style="font-style: italic">only </span>flow in <span style="font-style: italic">one</span> direction. It can even flow backwards in localized areas and you'll see the swirls and eddys. Viewing the wind as a fluid helps me understand it better.
Re: Variable Wind
Now, BattleAxe, that was good.
I don't think it could ever be expressed any better.
Now, BattleAxe, that was good.
I don't think it could ever be expressed any better.
Re: Variable Wind
Wind is water, a very good truism, and certainly picturing the characteristics of a stream and how the current flows around obstacles like rocks will help you understand how terrain effects the wind
The firefighting pdf that was posted is also an excellent resource, i highly recommend reading it.
I think by breaking up the segment, wind at the shooter, Mid Range and at the Target we can better understand the individual components. Take each one separately and not as one solution, and it will be a bit easier to picture. But remember all experience with the wind starts at the shooter. That is the science department, everything else is art.
This said, as Ch'e said, inside 600 yards your TOF is very short, so the effects are more linear as opposed to dynamic like when you approach the backside of the bullets curve. Solutions for 800 and 1000+ are different than solutions for 600 and below. The missing factor in all discussions, especially formula based ones, is the air density. A Full Value 10MPH wind at sea level is very different from a Full Value 10MPH wind at 5000+ ft above sea level. Like I said, even shooting here in October on a 55 degree day my DA is easily over 10,000ft above sea level, the wind whole just as hard doesn't have the air density to move the bullet the same amount.
Because I have the privilege of shooting places like the coast of Texas and the mountains of Colorado all i the same month, or even week, you begin to built a very good personal database of effects.
Wind is water, a very good truism, and certainly picturing the characteristics of a stream and how the current flows around obstacles like rocks will help you understand how terrain effects the wind
The firefighting pdf that was posted is also an excellent resource, i highly recommend reading it.
I think by breaking up the segment, wind at the shooter, Mid Range and at the Target we can better understand the individual components. Take each one separately and not as one solution, and it will be a bit easier to picture. But remember all experience with the wind starts at the shooter. That is the science department, everything else is art.
This said, as Ch'e said, inside 600 yards your TOF is very short, so the effects are more linear as opposed to dynamic like when you approach the backside of the bullets curve. Solutions for 800 and 1000+ are different than solutions for 600 and below. The missing factor in all discussions, especially formula based ones, is the air density. A Full Value 10MPH wind at sea level is very different from a Full Value 10MPH wind at 5000+ ft above sea level. Like I said, even shooting here in October on a 55 degree day my DA is easily over 10,000ft above sea level, the wind whole just as hard doesn't have the air density to move the bullet the same amount.
Because I have the privilege of shooting places like the coast of Texas and the mountains of Colorado all i the same month, or even week, you begin to built a very good personal database of effects.
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The firefighting pdf that was posted is also an excellent resource, i highly recommend reading it. </div></div>
Just found it and it looks excellent. I'll scour it more thoroughly when I get a break.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The firefighting pdf that was posted is also an excellent resource, i highly recommend reading it. </div></div>
Just found it and it looks excellent. I'll scour it more thoroughly when I get a break.
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The firefighting pdf that was posted is also an excellent resource, i highly recommend reading it. </div></div>
Just found it and it looks excellent. I'll scour it more thoroughly when I get a break.</div></div>
can you share the link please?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The firefighting pdf that was posted is also an excellent resource, i highly recommend reading it. </div></div>
Just found it and it looks excellent. I'll scour it more thoroughly when I get a break.</div></div>
can you share the link please?
Re: Variable Wind
I'm pretty sure this is it. Again I just briefly glossed over it...
http://training.nwcg.gov/pre-courses/S390/FireWeatherHandbook/pms_425_Fire_Wx_ch_06.pdf
I'm pretty sure this is it. Again I just briefly glossed over it...
http://training.nwcg.gov/pre-courses/S390/FireWeatherHandbook/pms_425_Fire_Wx_ch_06.pdf
Re: Variable Wind
Thanks BattleAxe!
Appreciate it!
Thanks BattleAxe!
Appreciate it!
Re: Variable Wind
I think that there is an intrinsic problem within this thread.
Without it being actually stated, it is my considered opinion that there are two separate schools of thought being put forth here, the range and the world.
This is a most excellent thread and I'm absorbing a great deal from all posts.
But, gentlemen, the educated man is he who studies various schools of though within the same discipline, takes the best of each, and combines them into his own effective system.
A discussion and debate is a good thing until such time it denegrates into lambaste.
You all are intelligent and experienced perople from whom I wish to learn a great deal.
Just remember, regardless of how passionate you are about a subject, you have but one chance to make a good first impression.
Remember, there are those of us out here who are reading your responses, posts and arguments for the very first time.
Just a thought . . .
I think that there is an intrinsic problem within this thread.
Without it being actually stated, it is my considered opinion that there are two separate schools of thought being put forth here, the range and the world.
This is a most excellent thread and I'm absorbing a great deal from all posts.
But, gentlemen, the educated man is he who studies various schools of though within the same discipline, takes the best of each, and combines them into his own effective system.
A discussion and debate is a good thing until such time it denegrates into lambaste.
You all are intelligent and experienced perople from whom I wish to learn a great deal.
Just remember, regardless of how passionate you are about a subject, you have but one chance to make a good first impression.
Remember, there are those of us out here who are reading your responses, posts and arguments for the very first time.
Just a thought . . .
Re: Variable Wind
If you review the firefighting pdf, you'll see there are illustrations showing the currents of air as they are effected by things like trees, one very important effect is the localized swirl that happens when it opens up to a field.
Now, this can easily apply to a square range, and the same 3 segments can be looked at, shooter, mid and target, however you have to ask yourself, is that left side wind flag at 600 yards facing the wrong way because you think there is a spike or is it really being effected by the swirl ? So this will help guide a new shooter to understand the flags they are reading them downrange. Flags are a visual marker there to help because wind is after all invisible.
How does the wind filter through trees and act when they come to the open range area, how does a berm cause updrafts, will the heating of the ground as the morning changes to afternoon cause thermals which will increase the winds ?
There are plenty of square range questions to be asked and answered, and all the information is helpful... however, there is one very important factor and luckily they give you sighters on the square range. It's the bullet and you should always believe the bullet. From there when you are looking to cut the "X" you have to determine at what point in the ebb and flow of the wind pattern did you fire that bullet and then you have to do all you can to either stay inside that same pattern or if you can't successfully adjust based on where you are with the current shoot.
Wind in the macro, is like a wave on the ocean rolling onto the beach. If you can visualize the pattern of that, you begin to understand the wave of wind as it sweeps across. Remember, you are the science department, you have to measure the wave, identifying the highs, the low, and the average. Take the average and understand the value for the changes to high and low and then use that to determine your firing pattern to hit your marks. Sounds easy writing it, but it is clearly not, because no single person has proven to master it across all its changes. It fast, it's changing , its unpredictable, some people are just better at predicting the change better than others on any given day.
And after all that, wait until dissimilar wind is dropped on everyone in 2012, that will cause you to adjust a lot of previous thinking on how to actually adjust for wind based on the direction against the bullet.
If you review the firefighting pdf, you'll see there are illustrations showing the currents of air as they are effected by things like trees, one very important effect is the localized swirl that happens when it opens up to a field.
Now, this can easily apply to a square range, and the same 3 segments can be looked at, shooter, mid and target, however you have to ask yourself, is that left side wind flag at 600 yards facing the wrong way because you think there is a spike or is it really being effected by the swirl ? So this will help guide a new shooter to understand the flags they are reading them downrange. Flags are a visual marker there to help because wind is after all invisible.
How does the wind filter through trees and act when they come to the open range area, how does a berm cause updrafts, will the heating of the ground as the morning changes to afternoon cause thermals which will increase the winds ?
There are plenty of square range questions to be asked and answered, and all the information is helpful... however, there is one very important factor and luckily they give you sighters on the square range. It's the bullet and you should always believe the bullet. From there when you are looking to cut the "X" you have to determine at what point in the ebb and flow of the wind pattern did you fire that bullet and then you have to do all you can to either stay inside that same pattern or if you can't successfully adjust based on where you are with the current shoot.
Wind in the macro, is like a wave on the ocean rolling onto the beach. If you can visualize the pattern of that, you begin to understand the wave of wind as it sweeps across. Remember, you are the science department, you have to measure the wave, identifying the highs, the low, and the average. Take the average and understand the value for the changes to high and low and then use that to determine your firing pattern to hit your marks. Sounds easy writing it, but it is clearly not, because no single person has proven to master it across all its changes. It fast, it's changing , its unpredictable, some people are just better at predicting the change better than others on any given day.
And after all that, wait until dissimilar wind is dropped on everyone in 2012, that will cause you to adjust a lot of previous thinking on how to actually adjust for wind based on the direction against the bullet.
Re: Variable Wind
I just fart, smell it, see which direction the stink is goin' in and just sort of acommodate . . .
I just fart, smell it, see which direction the stink is goin' in and just sort of acommodate . . .
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you review the firefighting pdf, you'll see there are illustrations showing the currents of air as they are effected by things like trees, one very important effect is the localized swirl that happens when it opens up to a field.
Now, this can easily apply to a square range, and the same 3 segments can be looked at, shooter, mid and target, however you have to ask yourself, is that left side wind flag at 600 yards facing the wrong way because you think there is a spike or is it really being effected by the swirl ? So this will help guide a new shooter to understand the flags they are reading them downrange. Flags are a visual marker there to help because wind is after all invisible.
How does the wind filter through trees and act when they come to the open range area, how does a berm cause updrafts, will the heating of the ground as the morning changes to afternoon cause thermals which will increase the winds ?
There are plenty of square range questions to be asked and answered, and all the information is helpful... however, there is one very important factor and luckily they give you sighters on the square range. It's the bullet and you should always believe the bullet. From there when you are looking to cut the "X" you have to determine at what point in the ebb and flow of the wind pattern did you fire that bullet and then you have to do all you can to either stay inside that same pattern or if you can't successfully adjust based on where you are with the current shoot.
Wind in the macro, is like a wave on the ocean rolling onto the beach. If you can visualize the pattern of that, you begin to understand the wave of wind as it sweeps across. Remember, you are the science department, you have to measure the wave, identifying the highs, the low, and the average. Take the average and understand the value for the changes to high and low and then use that to determine your firing pattern to hit your marks. Sounds easy writing it, but it is clearly not, because no single person has proven to master it across all its changes. It fast, it's changing , its unpredictable, some people are just better at predicting the change better than others on any given day.
And after all that, wait until dissimilar wind is dropped on everyone in 2012, that will cause you to adjust a lot of previous thinking on how to actually adjust for wind based on the direction against the bullet. </div></div>
I think falling asleep watching the Big Bang Theory is starting to work...I'm starting to understand all of this shit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you review the firefighting pdf, you'll see there are illustrations showing the currents of air as they are effected by things like trees, one very important effect is the localized swirl that happens when it opens up to a field.
Now, this can easily apply to a square range, and the same 3 segments can be looked at, shooter, mid and target, however you have to ask yourself, is that left side wind flag at 600 yards facing the wrong way because you think there is a spike or is it really being effected by the swirl ? So this will help guide a new shooter to understand the flags they are reading them downrange. Flags are a visual marker there to help because wind is after all invisible.
How does the wind filter through trees and act when they come to the open range area, how does a berm cause updrafts, will the heating of the ground as the morning changes to afternoon cause thermals which will increase the winds ?
There are plenty of square range questions to be asked and answered, and all the information is helpful... however, there is one very important factor and luckily they give you sighters on the square range. It's the bullet and you should always believe the bullet. From there when you are looking to cut the "X" you have to determine at what point in the ebb and flow of the wind pattern did you fire that bullet and then you have to do all you can to either stay inside that same pattern or if you can't successfully adjust based on where you are with the current shoot.
Wind in the macro, is like a wave on the ocean rolling onto the beach. If you can visualize the pattern of that, you begin to understand the wave of wind as it sweeps across. Remember, you are the science department, you have to measure the wave, identifying the highs, the low, and the average. Take the average and understand the value for the changes to high and low and then use that to determine your firing pattern to hit your marks. Sounds easy writing it, but it is clearly not, because no single person has proven to master it across all its changes. It fast, it's changing , its unpredictable, some people are just better at predicting the change better than others on any given day.
And after all that, wait until dissimilar wind is dropped on everyone in 2012, that will cause you to adjust a lot of previous thinking on how to actually adjust for wind based on the direction against the bullet. </div></div>
I think falling asleep watching the Big Bang Theory is starting to work...I'm starting to understand all of this shit.
Re: Variable Wind
Only pigs can see the wind.
Only pigs can see the wind.
Re: Variable Wind
I just fart, smell it, see which direction the stink is goin' in and just sort of acommodate . . .
_________________________
Not a sniper, but wish I could have been one. But,as my wife says, "It's never to late to have a happy childhood." University of Georgia Varsity and ROTC rifle team. 294 "career" avg. out of 300 possible: 3 pos. small bore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only pigs can see the wind. </div></div>One superstition to get rid of warts involves rubbing a peeled apple and giving it to a pig.
There is a superstition that pigs can see the wind (Ireland). When they are seen hurrying about their stye or carrying a bunch of straw in their mouth then there is a storm on the way. It is unlucky to have a pig cross your path - turn your back till it is gone - and if it begins to make a rather strange whining noise then there is to be a death in the family.
Pay attention Killer spade !!! lol
Great write up Lowlight and things I can take away to think about when shooting .I was sighting a rifle in today which couldnt get anything less than a 300 yard zero due to the base and rings I presume but the s&b pm2 5x25 just wouldnt go to 100 yards, I shot a 3 inch dot in mirage strewn conditions with 2 wind patterns .130 Yards with a small mound running close to this 130 yards length- 3mph 170 yards 5mph at 9pm in open space with trees 100 yards away
pretty simple shot of .2mrads left wind using patagonia -my own method would to have set a balistic caculator to 100 yards and see what the wind adjustment would be and then onto 200 yards and add to togeather -over this distance it was the same for my way and Patagonia multiple winds -dont know that my way works out at distance but probably close I have a contest out to a Kilometer on the 12th which has a real interesting set of land scapes and I fully intend to win am are chasing all the knowledge I can to make my win happen .
The important thing for me when reading about something as technical as this subject is to have the conditions of wind and terrain influence explained and what to expect and when!
-the water likeness is understandable and something I am aware of but its the action of wind close to a line of trees or wind hitting a berm and knowing what to expect ?"EXPERIENCE" is what will win the day on this subject so please pass more on if we can discuss other areas of this subject further please - I mostly shoot off range but also shoot club fclass -off range is definatley harder .
SterlngShooter what is your experiance off range and can you add to this conversation ?
I just fart, smell it, see which direction the stink is goin' in and just sort of acommodate . . .
_________________________
Not a sniper, but wish I could have been one. But,as my wife says, "It's never to late to have a happy childhood." University of Georgia Varsity and ROTC rifle team. 294 "career" avg. out of 300 possible: 3 pos. small bore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only pigs can see the wind. </div></div>One superstition to get rid of warts involves rubbing a peeled apple and giving it to a pig.
There is a superstition that pigs can see the wind (Ireland). When they are seen hurrying about their stye or carrying a bunch of straw in their mouth then there is a storm on the way. It is unlucky to have a pig cross your path - turn your back till it is gone - and if it begins to make a rather strange whining noise then there is to be a death in the family.
Pay attention Killer spade !!! lol
Great write up Lowlight and things I can take away to think about when shooting .I was sighting a rifle in today which couldnt get anything less than a 300 yard zero due to the base and rings I presume but the s&b pm2 5x25 just wouldnt go to 100 yards, I shot a 3 inch dot in mirage strewn conditions with 2 wind patterns .130 Yards with a small mound running close to this 130 yards length- 3mph 170 yards 5mph at 9pm in open space with trees 100 yards away
pretty simple shot of .2mrads left wind using patagonia -my own method would to have set a balistic caculator to 100 yards and see what the wind adjustment would be and then onto 200 yards and add to togeather -over this distance it was the same for my way and Patagonia multiple winds -dont know that my way works out at distance but probably close I have a contest out to a Kilometer on the 12th which has a real interesting set of land scapes and I fully intend to win am are chasing all the knowledge I can to make my win happen .
The important thing for me when reading about something as technical as this subject is to have the conditions of wind and terrain influence explained and what to expect and when!
-the water likeness is understandable and something I am aware of but its the action of wind close to a line of trees or wind hitting a berm and knowing what to expect ?"EXPERIENCE" is what will win the day on this subject so please pass more on if we can discuss other areas of this subject further please - I mostly shoot off range but also shoot club fclass -off range is definatley harder .
SterlngShooter what is your experiance off range and can you add to this conversation ?
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'd also include the USAMU in your list of reputable trainers. I've assisted the USAMU in their training of Soldiers participating in the SDM program before the program even had a name. The advice I've given here are not my notions but doctrine on the matter from the USAMU. All of what I've alluded to can be found in any version of the SDM curriculum. On the other hand, your statements have only proven that you know nothing about good shooting, so, no matter how you present your ideas, it's still just misinformation. </div></div>
The SDM curriculum is just that...curriculum. A book that must be correctly interpreted by a <span style="text-decoration: underline">teacher</span> that actually knows how to teach, and understands the notion that a student doesn't learn merely because they've been taught... A concept that wouldn't get lost on a real instructor or teacher, like it's been lost on you. There's a reason that some only "assist" in training and its largely becaue they're not quite ready to drive the boat.
The only misinformation I see here is that which spews relentlessly from your pie hole. My advice to you would be...if you find yourself in a hole it would be wise to stop digging.</div></div>
Shooting facts need no interpretation. You know nothing about the SDM program or what I do. Assistance means serving as line coach to correctly analyse shooter/target error.
BTW, as I understand it you do not have any shooting credentials. Is that right? I assume you have no credentials since your posts suggest you know nothing about good shooting. Still, you want folks to accept what you have to say about the matter. Why would anyone want to do that? You appear to want respect that you have not earned. You are a fool. Furthermore, you, without any credentials, dismiss mine. That's big of you. It shows your character.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'd also include the USAMU in your list of reputable trainers. I've assisted the USAMU in their training of Soldiers participating in the SDM program before the program even had a name. The advice I've given here are not my notions but doctrine on the matter from the USAMU. All of what I've alluded to can be found in any version of the SDM curriculum. On the other hand, your statements have only proven that you know nothing about good shooting, so, no matter how you present your ideas, it's still just misinformation. </div></div>
The SDM curriculum is just that...curriculum. A book that must be correctly interpreted by a <span style="text-decoration: underline">teacher</span> that actually knows how to teach, and understands the notion that a student doesn't learn merely because they've been taught... A concept that wouldn't get lost on a real instructor or teacher, like it's been lost on you. There's a reason that some only "assist" in training and its largely becaue they're not quite ready to drive the boat.
The only misinformation I see here is that which spews relentlessly from your pie hole. My advice to you would be...if you find yourself in a hole it would be wise to stop digging.</div></div>
Shooting facts need no interpretation. You know nothing about the SDM program or what I do. Assistance means serving as line coach to correctly analyse shooter/target error.
BTW, as I understand it you do not have any shooting credentials. Is that right? I assume you have no credentials since your posts suggest you know nothing about good shooting. Still, you want folks to accept what you have to say about the matter. Why would anyone want to do that? You appear to want respect that you have not earned. You are a fool. Furthermore, you, without any credentials, dismiss mine. That's big of you. It shows your character.
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bark bark bark. Yipe yipe. Bark bark yipe. Bark bark bark bark. Bark yipe bark.
(pauses to lick own nutsack)
Bark bark bark. Yipe yipe. Bark bark yipe. Bark bark bark bark. Bark yipe bark. </div></div>
Stop being such an ankle-biter and go find someone elses leg to hump.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bark bark bark. Yipe yipe. Bark bark yipe. Bark bark bark bark. Bark yipe bark.
(pauses to lick own nutsack)
Bark bark bark. Yipe yipe. Bark bark yipe. Bark bark bark bark. Bark yipe bark. </div></div>
Stop being such an ankle-biter and go find someone elses leg to hump.
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'd also include the USAMU in your list of reputable trainers. I've assisted the USAMU in their training of Soldiers participating in the SDM program before the program even had a name. The advice I've given here are not my notions but doctrine on the matter from the USAMU. All of what I've alluded to can be found in any version of the SDM curriculum. On the other hand, your statements have only proven that you know nothing about good shooting, so, no matter how you present your ideas, it's still just misinformation. </div></div>
The SDM curriculum is just that...curriculum. A book that must be correctly interpreted by a <span style="text-decoration: underline">teacher</span> that actually knows how to teach, and understands the notion that a student doesn't learn merely because they've been taught... A concept that wouldn't get lost on a real instructor or teacher, like it's been lost on you. There's a reason that some only "assist" in training and its largely becaue they're not quite ready to drive the boat.
The only misinformation I see here is that which spews relentlessly from your pie hole. My advice to you would be...if you find yourself in a hole it would be wise to stop digging.</div></div>
Shooting facts need no interpretation. You know nothing about the SDM program or what I do. Assistance means serving as line coach to correctly analyse shooter/target error.
BTW, as I understand it you do not have any shooting credentials. Is that right? I assume you have no credentials since your posts suggest you know nothing about good shooting. Still, you want folks to accept what you have to say about the matter. Why would anyone want to do that? You appear to want respect that you have not earned. You are a fool. Furthermore, you, without any credentials, dismiss mine. That's big of you. It shows your character. </div></div>
enough already ,SterlingShooter a pissing match belittles you--add to the knowledge base as we are all ears .Just because a shooter doesnt have a set of letters after their name doesnt mean they cant kick your ass in a shooting match and have constructive info to add! Please participate if you can talk about the causes of variable winds and what to expect with different terrain features .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'd also include the USAMU in your list of reputable trainers. I've assisted the USAMU in their training of Soldiers participating in the SDM program before the program even had a name. The advice I've given here are not my notions but doctrine on the matter from the USAMU. All of what I've alluded to can be found in any version of the SDM curriculum. On the other hand, your statements have only proven that you know nothing about good shooting, so, no matter how you present your ideas, it's still just misinformation. </div></div>
The SDM curriculum is just that...curriculum. A book that must be correctly interpreted by a <span style="text-decoration: underline">teacher</span> that actually knows how to teach, and understands the notion that a student doesn't learn merely because they've been taught... A concept that wouldn't get lost on a real instructor or teacher, like it's been lost on you. There's a reason that some only "assist" in training and its largely becaue they're not quite ready to drive the boat.
The only misinformation I see here is that which spews relentlessly from your pie hole. My advice to you would be...if you find yourself in a hole it would be wise to stop digging.</div></div>
Shooting facts need no interpretation. You know nothing about the SDM program or what I do. Assistance means serving as line coach to correctly analyse shooter/target error.
BTW, as I understand it you do not have any shooting credentials. Is that right? I assume you have no credentials since your posts suggest you know nothing about good shooting. Still, you want folks to accept what you have to say about the matter. Why would anyone want to do that? You appear to want respect that you have not earned. You are a fool. Furthermore, you, without any credentials, dismiss mine. That's big of you. It shows your character. </div></div>
enough already ,SterlingShooter a pissing match belittles you--add to the knowledge base as we are all ears .Just because a shooter doesnt have a set of letters after their name doesnt mean they cant kick your ass in a shooting match and have constructive info to add! Please participate if you can talk about the causes of variable winds and what to expect with different terrain features .
Re: Variable Wind
Here are those images of Loadbase, this is the desktop version, which is much more detailed then the Mobile one designed for field use.
here is the graphic for the multiple zone
When you use the single zone the graph appears like this:
Like most of the options in the program you can choose to turn on just Zone A, or you can use the multiple the wind zone option which turns on all the Zones, A, B, & C.
Here are those images of Loadbase, this is the desktop version, which is much more detailed then the Mobile one designed for field use.
here is the graphic for the multiple zone
When you use the single zone the graph appears like this:
Like most of the options in the program you can choose to turn on just Zone A, or you can use the multiple the wind zone option which turns on all the Zones, A, B, & C.
Re: Variable Wind
battleaxe I use the pda version on my nomad and its a real tool box of info-1st class program ,mind you theres plenty on it also im yet to learn to use like gps targets-if your going to spend +100$ on a program let it be this!
battleaxe I use the pda version on my nomad and its a real tool box of info-1st class program ,mind you theres plenty on it also im yet to learn to use like gps targets-if your going to spend +100$ on a program let it be this!
Re: Variable Wind
Id wonder if this subject and its truely technical nature is above the heads of most given the lack of hard data imput and few names that have put something forward to consider?? Lets have those experiences heard
Id wonder if this subject and its truely technical nature is above the heads of most given the lack of hard data imput and few names that have put something forward to consider?? Lets have those experiences heard
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">battleaxe I use the pda version on my nomad and its a real tool box of info-1st class program ,mind you theres plenty on it also im yet to learn to use like gps targets-if your going to spend +100$ on a program let it be this! </div></div> I was just looking at those Nomads. Not cheap are they? Could buy another rifle for that price.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">battleaxe I use the pda version on my nomad and its a real tool box of info-1st class program ,mind you theres plenty on it also im yet to learn to use like gps targets-if your going to spend +100$ on a program let it be this! </div></div> I was just looking at those Nomads. Not cheap are they? Could buy another rifle for that price.
Re: Variable Wind
True , but they are a great tool combined with the Patagonia programe .You can also load maps onto them although I am yet to do it .
I want to hear more advice on terrain and variable winds .There must be many that have incountered situations that they consistantly observe effects that would cause them to say this or that is happening .
The firefigthing wind pdf shows the feild in disarray as wind crosses the hot feild -I wonder at what temperature this happen at ?
True , but they are a great tool combined with the Patagonia programe .You can also load maps onto them although I am yet to do it .
I want to hear more advice on terrain and variable winds .There must be many that have incountered situations that they consistantly observe effects that would cause them to say this or that is happening .
The firefigthing wind pdf shows the feild in disarray as wind crosses the hot feild -I wonder at what temperature this happen at ?
Re: Variable Wind
I actually just picked up another Nomad at SHOT from a Hide member who was selling one.
Watch US Cavalry I bought my first one from them for like $900, sometimes you can find the Yellow ones cheap.
I actually just picked up another Nomad at SHOT from a Hide member who was selling one.
Watch US Cavalry I bought my first one from them for like $900, sometimes you can find the Yellow ones cheap.
Re: Variable Wind
I got a yellow one -amazing they work the same as the tacticooll green one and are slightly cheaper second hand -I paid $1200NZ =Around $950us
Serously good battery life and easy to see the screen in the sun
I got a yellow one -amazing they work the same as the tacticooll green one and are slightly cheaper second hand -I paid $1200NZ =Around $950us
Serously good battery life and easy to see the screen in the sun
Re: Variable Wind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to hear more advice on terrain and variable winds .There must be many that have incountered situations that they consistantly observe effects that would cause them to say this or that is happening .</div></div>
I could add a little more here. Keep in mind that this is what helps me and it may not make sense to some as my mind has warped over the years. It could even be that some of my observations/methods are “off” and certainly some holes can be poked in them. Hell…I can likely poke a few holes myself for no other reason than there are still a few things I don’t have my arms around yet.
When I’m successful in variable winds (my success rate is improving, maybe 60-70% with a cold bore verses
95%+ cold bore with zero wind) there’s one overriding thing I do correctly <span style="font-style: italic">every</span> single time…I observe my surroundings.
I look for what I call (for complete lack of a better phrase) a <span style="font-style: italic">predominant force</span>, and I use observation (and my imagination) to determine what that force is. Going back to my previous example at 850 it makes sense to me that the movement of the treetops is the PF. It simply takes a lot more force to get 30-40’ pines to move 2’ than is does to make the grass sway. I also factor the ballistic “arc”. I’m shooting from a 10’ berm and the projectile is most exposed to the PF at approximately 2/3 down range near the top of the arc, which due to my elevated position is around 30’.
I view everything else as a secondary effect created by the PF and I merely use common sense and process of elimination. Wind in my face at 5 mph is well below the PF so I know it has to be a result of it, rather than a cause. One look at the tree lane and I can see how this 5 mph wind is created due to the funneling effect of the trees….the trees catch/divert a portion of the PF and steer it towards me at a different angle from the PF. I can use this process for every other observation I make…moving grass/bushes…wind flags at ground level…etc. Strongest winds come from above (mountains excluded), and there’s a reason for the height of the wind flag at airports….terrain creates drag and slows the wind.
This obviously varies from place to place but in the conditions I shoot the secondary effects seem to <span style="font-style: italic">reduce</span> the effects of the primary force. For example, if I have my typical 15-20 mph wind from 10 oclock, the secondary effects tend to reduce the PF’s effect on the projectile, and my job is to figure out by how much.
What helps me the most in understanding this (as I’ve stated earlier) is to reverse engineer the shot and this is hard for one reason…we’re lazy. We tend want to get as many shots off during a range session as we can. To RE the shot I look at the predominant <span style="text-decoration: underline">effect</span> (not force). In other words…my round going right is clearly the predominant effect…
I shot…the round went right….Duh
If I compare PF to PE one thing becomes clear…the effect is less than the force (I’m sure there are atmospherics that can bend this rule such as mountains but…). In other words if I purely view the 15 mph winds at the treetops I see a 1.0 mil correction (or whatever) yet the round only splashed 0.5 mil right. I simply “believe the bullet” as LL stated and I look for secondary’s that could cancel out or reduce the primary force. It’s easy to see these things but you have to take the time to actually look, which means less shooting and more looking. I’m wayyyyyy better at this when the range is empty. When its crowded it becomes more difficult by a huge margin. If you reverse engineer enough shots, these secondary effects start to “stick out”, make sense, and you can actually look for them.
To sum this all up I not only observe closely before the shot, but I evaluate those observations after the shot. I simply ask the question…why didn’t the primary force match the effect on the round as determined by the wind chart? You essentially have to ditch the habit of saying..."my wind call was off" and leaving it at that. You have to ask yourself why it was off and look for the cause.
This is where my belief in binoculars comes from. A spotter gives you too much of a “micro” view whereas binocs give you a macro view. When the winds are variable you need as much information as possible in a short period of time and binocs allow me to scan a whole lot of real estate quickly without adjusting shit. More importantly they prevent me from focusing on one thing that may not even be important...Secondary effects can lie to you.
Some of the things I’ve yet to figure out is the downdraft effect, and at my range it appears to be largely dependent on wind strength. There’s always a downdraft effect when wind drops off the trees but wind speed seems to determine where in the shooting lane (right or left) that it occurs, and it can have up to a 0.5 mil effect on elevation at times.
Don’t feel bad if I confused the shit anyone because I think I just confused myself.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I want to hear more advice on terrain and variable winds .There must be many that have incountered situations that they consistantly observe effects that would cause them to say this or that is happening .</div></div>
I could add a little more here. Keep in mind that this is what helps me and it may not make sense to some as my mind has warped over the years. It could even be that some of my observations/methods are “off” and certainly some holes can be poked in them. Hell…I can likely poke a few holes myself for no other reason than there are still a few things I don’t have my arms around yet.
When I’m successful in variable winds (my success rate is improving, maybe 60-70% with a cold bore verses
95%+ cold bore with zero wind) there’s one overriding thing I do correctly <span style="font-style: italic">every</span> single time…I observe my surroundings.
I look for what I call (for complete lack of a better phrase) a <span style="font-style: italic">predominant force</span>, and I use observation (and my imagination) to determine what that force is. Going back to my previous example at 850 it makes sense to me that the movement of the treetops is the PF. It simply takes a lot more force to get 30-40’ pines to move 2’ than is does to make the grass sway. I also factor the ballistic “arc”. I’m shooting from a 10’ berm and the projectile is most exposed to the PF at approximately 2/3 down range near the top of the arc, which due to my elevated position is around 30’.
I view everything else as a secondary effect created by the PF and I merely use common sense and process of elimination. Wind in my face at 5 mph is well below the PF so I know it has to be a result of it, rather than a cause. One look at the tree lane and I can see how this 5 mph wind is created due to the funneling effect of the trees….the trees catch/divert a portion of the PF and steer it towards me at a different angle from the PF. I can use this process for every other observation I make…moving grass/bushes…wind flags at ground level…etc. Strongest winds come from above (mountains excluded), and there’s a reason for the height of the wind flag at airports….terrain creates drag and slows the wind.
This obviously varies from place to place but in the conditions I shoot the secondary effects seem to <span style="font-style: italic">reduce</span> the effects of the primary force. For example, if I have my typical 15-20 mph wind from 10 oclock, the secondary effects tend to reduce the PF’s effect on the projectile, and my job is to figure out by how much.
What helps me the most in understanding this (as I’ve stated earlier) is to reverse engineer the shot and this is hard for one reason…we’re lazy. We tend want to get as many shots off during a range session as we can. To RE the shot I look at the predominant <span style="text-decoration: underline">effect</span> (not force). In other words…my round going right is clearly the predominant effect…
I shot…the round went right….Duh
If I compare PF to PE one thing becomes clear…the effect is less than the force (I’m sure there are atmospherics that can bend this rule such as mountains but…). In other words if I purely view the 15 mph winds at the treetops I see a 1.0 mil correction (or whatever) yet the round only splashed 0.5 mil right. I simply “believe the bullet” as LL stated and I look for secondary’s that could cancel out or reduce the primary force. It’s easy to see these things but you have to take the time to actually look, which means less shooting and more looking. I’m wayyyyyy better at this when the range is empty. When its crowded it becomes more difficult by a huge margin. If you reverse engineer enough shots, these secondary effects start to “stick out”, make sense, and you can actually look for them.
To sum this all up I not only observe closely before the shot, but I evaluate those observations after the shot. I simply ask the question…why didn’t the primary force match the effect on the round as determined by the wind chart? You essentially have to ditch the habit of saying..."my wind call was off" and leaving it at that. You have to ask yourself why it was off and look for the cause.
This is where my belief in binoculars comes from. A spotter gives you too much of a “micro” view whereas binocs give you a macro view. When the winds are variable you need as much information as possible in a short period of time and binocs allow me to scan a whole lot of real estate quickly without adjusting shit. More importantly they prevent me from focusing on one thing that may not even be important...Secondary effects can lie to you.
Some of the things I’ve yet to figure out is the downdraft effect, and at my range it appears to be largely dependent on wind strength. There’s always a downdraft effect when wind drops off the trees but wind speed seems to determine where in the shooting lane (right or left) that it occurs, and it can have up to a 0.5 mil effect on elevation at times.
Don’t feel bad if I confused the shit anyone because I think I just confused myself.
Re: Variable Wind
OK. I'll chime in here. I use a similar routine to the above, in that I spend as much time observing the conditions as I can before taking a shot. I have taken to the methodology of equating wind to water flowing into, & over obstacles in it's path. I have to as I do almost all of my shooting in the mountains. This is a frequented spot that offers 750, & 925 yds.
[img:left]
[/img]
From this FFP there is a deep valley to our left about 1000' below running roughly parallel to the shot. The hill the targets are on is a small ridge jutting out into that valley. The draw we shoot across is 3/4 of the way to the targets. The wind usually comes up the valley from behind us. However it always blows up the draw at almost a right angle to the shot, & also carries over the top of the ridge causing an updraft. So with a 5 mph wind felt at the FFP there is about a 7-8 mph full value crosswind going up the draw, & a 1-2 mph updraft with virtually no wind at the target. When the wind blows the opposite way the same applies only backwards with a downdraft. And it also frequently switches minute by minute during variable wind days. So one minute you are blown high/right, & the next minute you are blown low/left. Some days you can see it from observing the little cobwebs, & cottonwood fluffs that are carried in the breeze, but other days there is nothing. Not even mirage. Using the concept of water flowing over the terrain is the only way to try, & understand it. Here I use holds, & favors depending on what I think the wind is doing at the time. But when the wind is gusting, I will dial for what I feel is the average, & hold, & favor for the changes I see.
OK. I'll chime in here. I use a similar routine to the above, in that I spend as much time observing the conditions as I can before taking a shot. I have taken to the methodology of equating wind to water flowing into, & over obstacles in it's path. I have to as I do almost all of my shooting in the mountains. This is a frequented spot that offers 750, & 925 yds.
[img:left]
From this FFP there is a deep valley to our left about 1000' below running roughly parallel to the shot. The hill the targets are on is a small ridge jutting out into that valley. The draw we shoot across is 3/4 of the way to the targets. The wind usually comes up the valley from behind us. However it always blows up the draw at almost a right angle to the shot, & also carries over the top of the ridge causing an updraft. So with a 5 mph wind felt at the FFP there is about a 7-8 mph full value crosswind going up the draw, & a 1-2 mph updraft with virtually no wind at the target. When the wind blows the opposite way the same applies only backwards with a downdraft. And it also frequently switches minute by minute during variable wind days. So one minute you are blown high/right, & the next minute you are blown low/left. Some days you can see it from observing the little cobwebs, & cottonwood fluffs that are carried in the breeze, but other days there is nothing. Not even mirage. Using the concept of water flowing over the terrain is the only way to try, & understand it. Here I use holds, & favors depending on what I think the wind is doing at the time. But when the wind is gusting, I will dial for what I feel is the average, & hold, & favor for the changes I see.
Re: Variable Wind
Great posts Battleaxe and big wheels.On the 11th of next month I want to try take a Iphone video of a contest Im in and its terrain and try to post an explination of what I think is happening and hopefully make a 1000 metre shot 1st round hit -if I dont hit it 1st round it will make it more interesting as we can all comment on my failure lol
Great posts Battleaxe and big wheels.On the 11th of next month I want to try take a Iphone video of a contest Im in and its terrain and try to post an explination of what I think is happening and hopefully make a 1000 metre shot 1st round hit -if I dont hit it 1st round it will make it more interesting as we can all comment on my failure lol
Re: Variable Wind
Go for it. I have a couple vids of me shooting at the same place. It shows heavy mirage and the splash from misses actually blowing the opposite direction. But I can't get them to upload. File size I think.
Go for it. I have a couple vids of me shooting at the same place. It shows heavy mirage and the splash from misses actually blowing the opposite direction. But I can't get them to upload. File size I think.
Re: Variable Wind
have you tried uplading to you tube or reducing file size.
It would be good to see your shooting spot with an expliation of hits and misses
have you tried uplading to you tube or reducing file size.
It would be good to see your shooting spot with an expliation of hits and misses
Re: Variable Wind
I've tried everything I could think of. It may be an issue with the servers around here too. I don't know. I can get it to start the upload, but the server says it has timed out before it's done. And I'm not patient enough to do much more with it. If I get a chance to try again with decent conditions I might give it a try with different setting on the camcorder. Or maybe a different camcorder too. Conditions arent likely to be better than poor to fair for some time up there for a while. I don't mind shooting in some wind, but 20-25 gusting to 50, & raining isn't cool.
I've tried everything I could think of. It may be an issue with the servers around here too. I don't know. I can get it to start the upload, but the server says it has timed out before it's done. And I'm not patient enough to do much more with it. If I get a chance to try again with decent conditions I might give it a try with different setting on the camcorder. Or maybe a different camcorder too. Conditions arent likely to be better than poor to fair for some time up there for a while. I don't mind shooting in some wind, but 20-25 gusting to 50, & raining isn't cool.
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