Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I took the survey and offered my most candid views.

I was exposed to Martyjane in 'Nam. Our general consensus was that users could not be trusted to hold up their end in a crunch, and were best avoided.

After being through stage Ia and stage IIb Lymphoma (two separate bouts, two different Lymphomas, both attributed to AO Exposure), I was both adequately and easily treated for whatever nausea was present with Compazine, which serves the same supposed purpose as 'medical marajuana' very adequately. It was the drug of choice from my providers at both CTCA and the VA.

While I am also aware of claims involving marijuana and alleviation of glaucoma related ailments, I can relate no personal experience in that area.

It's my considered opinion, based on ample experience, that whatever therapeutic benefits 'medical marajuana' might provide are more simply (and legitlmately) provided by alternative conventional pharmaceuticals, and that claims of marajuana being the sole solace for medical patients are both spurious and a thinly veiled attempt to remove marajuana for the classification as a controlled substance, and permit its recreational use under a false pretext and trumped up diagnoses by sympathetic but corrupt medical practicianers; while simultaneously mocking and taking unscrupulous advantage of others with legitimate diagnoses.

I know people who use the stuff. I consider them to be drug abusers, and I continue to avoid them just as I did in 'Nam, I also consider drug abuse to be a moral defect.

I am especially concerned about how marajuana affects judgement and motor skills, and how it may ro may not influnce users while they are responsible for children's welfare. I don't want any of them anywhere near my grandchildren, regardless of whether or not they are under the influence at the particular time of the interaction.

I would greatly appreciate it if you were to share my views with the survey's author(s). I am not interested in initiating or participating in any dialogue on the subject (not negotiable), my views stand as presented, are to be considered as opinions only, and I have no other ones on the subject.

Greg

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took the survey and offered my most candid views.

I was exposed to Martyjane in 'Nam. Our general consensus was that users could not be trusted to hold up their end in a crunch, and were best avoided.

After being through stage Ia and stage IIb Lymphoma (two separate bouts, two different Lymphomas, both attributed to AO Exposure), I was both adequately and easily treated for whatever nausea was present with Compazine, which serves the same supposed purpose as 'medical marajuana' very adequately. It was the drug of choice from my providers at both CTCA and the VA.

While I am also aware of claims involving marijuana and alleviation of glaucoma related ailments, I can relate no personal experience in that area.

It's my considered opinion, based on ample experience, that whatever therapeutic benefits 'medical marajuana' might provide are more simply (and legitlmately) provided by alternative conventional pharmaceuticals, and that claims of marajuana being the sole solace for medical patients are both spurious and a thinly veiled attempt to remove marajuana for the classification as a controlled substance, and permit its recreational use under a false pretext and trumped up diagnoses by sympathetic but corrupt medical practicianers; while simultaneously mocking and taking unscrupulous advantage of others with legitimate diagnoses.

I know people who use the stuff. I consider them to be drug abusers, and I continue to avoid them just as I did in 'Nam, I also consider drug abuse to be a moral defect.

I am especially concerned about how marajuana affects judgement and motor skills, and how it may ro may not influnce users while they are responsible for children's welfare. I don't want any of them anywhere near my grandchildren, regardless of whether or not they are under the influence at the particular time of the interaction.

I would greatly appreciate it if you were to share my views with the survey's author(s). I am not interested in initiating or participating in any dialogue on the subject (not negotiable), my views stand as presented, are to be considered as opinions only, and I have no other ones on the subject.

Greg </div></div>

How embarrassing for you.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took the survey and offered my most candid views.

I was exposed to Martyjane in 'Nam. Our general consensus was that users could not be trusted to hold up their end in a crunch, and were best avoided.

After being through stage Ia and stage IIb Lymphoma (two separate bouts, two different Lymphomas, both attributed to AO Exposure), I was both adequately and easily treated for whatever nausea was present with Compazine, which serves the same supposed purpose as 'medical marajuana' very adequately. It was the drug of choice from my providers at both CTCA and the VA.

While I am also aware of claims involving marijuana and alleviation of glaucoma related ailments, I can relate no personal experience in that area.

It's my considered opinion, based on ample experience, that whatever therapeutic benefits 'medical marajuana' might provide are more simply (and legitlmately) provided by alternative conventional pharmaceuticals, and that claims of marajuana being the sole solace for medical patients are both spurious and a thinly veiled attempt to remove marajuana for the classification as a controlled substance, and permit its recreational use under a false pretext and trumped up diagnoses by sympathetic but corrupt medical practicianers; while simultaneously mocking and taking unscrupulous advantage of others with legitimate diagnoses.

I know people who use the stuff. I consider them to be drug abusers, and I continue to avoid them just as I did in 'Nam, I also consider drug abuse to be a moral defect.

I am especially concerned about how marajuana affects judgement and motor skills, and how it may ro may not influnce users while they are responsible for children's welfare. I don't want any of them anywhere near my grandchildren, regardless of whether or not they are under the influence at the particular time of the interaction.

I would greatly appreciate it if you were to share my views with the survey's author(s). I am not interested in initiating or participating in any dialogue on the subject (not negotiable), my views stand as presented, are to be considered as opinions only, and I have no other ones on the subject.

Greg </div></div>

How embarrassing for you.</div></div>



Look, Asshat; if you want to use the stuff and advocate its use, that's fine and well by me

But your arrogant ridicule is completely out of line here. I made my best effort to present a legitimate case history and my views on the subject, all in a reasoned and polite manner.

As far as I'm concerned, your participation here at the 'Hide has always been deliberately couched to skirt the line between legitimate discourse and scatological imperative; and this time, you've crossed the line.

I don't care what you say or do toward me from now on; but I think you owe the rest of the forum an apology for trying to turn a sober discourse into a flame war.

Both our post have been reported. I hope they hand you your hat for good this time.

I got better things to do with my Christmas Eve than to tolerate your shallow B/S.

Everyone else, enjoy your Holidays. I'm outta here.

Greg

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

Actually I dont smoke it...or anything else for that matter. Doesnt mean my eyes and ears are closed as to the truth.
The first vidieo which wouldnt embed is by Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan vets who find that it helps them. Argue with them not me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQiJeUIbM0E

and this one

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JPm0Jq9bj98"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JPm0Jq9bj98" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

Greg,

Excellent post, though I do take issue with some of your logic, in particular regarding Compazine.

First, I'm very glad you beat various bouts with lymphoma. I cannot help but read your posts and think you are a great man in many regards. I shudder to think of the world without men like you.


Second, I do not advocate for Medical Marijuana, or rather, for marijuana to be used in a medicinal manner (which, well, like it or not- it is). I do, however, think there is a large bit of ignorance based on other experiences and that ignorance easily extends to myself. So, don't take this as a soap box post. The fact remains- MMJ is a reality.

Maggot's seemingly elementary response aside, I'd certainly like to attempt my best charitable reply insofar as what I see in your post; I've emphasized the original post with bold and retained my responses in the regular font:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I took the survey and offered my most candid views.

I was exposed to Martyjane in 'Nam. Our general consensus was that users could not be trusted to hold up their end in a crunch, and were best avoided.</span>

Anyone using any drug which has an effect on the mind and ability to truly function fits that description. Heck, the modern battlefield is inundated with anti-psychotics and depression meds. Whether it's pot or trazadone or whatever, it really has no place in combat.

<span style="font-weight: bold">After being through stage Ia and stage IIb Lymphoma (two separate bouts, two different Lymphomas, both attributed to AO Exposure), I was both adequately and easily treated for whatever nausea was present with Compazine, which serves the same supposed purpose as 'medical marajuana' very adequately. It was the drug of choice from my providers at both CTCA and the VA.</span>

Reading over the stats on Compazine, it appears you were given a conventional antipsychotic which has some rather disturbing side effects on its own, including the ability to overdose. Some side effects mirror the accepted side effects of Marijuana, as does a large portion of the things it treats. The caveat is marijuana is largely untested, but fairly well proven to be safe in use. Given what I just read about Compazine, and know from previous research into MMJ, it seems marijuana is truly the better of the two. The real issue becomes a study on why people are willing to take anything a doctor gives them in pill form, but in a more natural form, it becomes suspect. Particularly when an easily researched conclusion determines there is much more to the current views against marijuana than are actually found in a researched and knowledgeable context of the drug itself. It is, at its root, an emotional argument with no true bearing in reality. Further, when the principles employed against marijuana are applied to "legal" "prescription" drugs, the argument is made against ALL drugs.

From what I read about compazine, had I been in your situation, I'd have opted for the pot first. Then again, I have a healthy distrust of pills and especially of any pill the VA gives me. Outside of Grizzly Wintergreen and a strong cup of morning coffee, and diet mountain dew, I have no vices. I don't really even drink anymore. I find it strange though when people rant and rave against pot with a beer or shot in their hand. As of yet, I can find no instances of someone getting THC poisoning or otherwise overdosing on pot.

I also find an extreme amount of hypocrisy in that it is a Schedule 1 narcotic yet it has been rendered into what is essentially hash pills via big pharma. Convenient that the copyright just expired, according to a few posts back. Is it a Schedule 1, or not? That is the question. Again, someone is lying or playing favorites in the Fed. I'd gander both.



You can read all about Compazine here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000582/


<span style="font-weight: bold">While I am also aware of claims involving marijuana and alleviation of glaucoma related ailments, I can relate no personal experience in that area.
</span>

Nor do I. I would defer to the people who use it for those reasons.


<span style="font-weight: bold">It's my considered opinion, based on ample experience, that whatever therapeutic benefits 'medical marajuana' might provide are more simply (and legitlmately) provided by alternative conventional pharmaceuticals,</span>

At what cost? What side effects? What potential for harm? What determines legitimacy but the States and Fed? The states which have legalized it have spoken. The Fed maintains a position, but, in reality, it's a State issue- like most issues. We really can't have it both ways. To argue against the states provides a valid framework for other Federal encroachment on State rights. That it's federally illegal doesn't really mean anything in light of valid state elections regarding the issue. That the Fed has not attempted to really put the boot on it signifies, to me, the Federal issue has reasons beyond what is forthrightly declared in its inherent illegality.


<span style="font-weight: bold"> and that claims of marajuana being the sole solace for medical patients are both spurious and a thinly veiled attempt to remove marajuana for the classification as a controlled substance, and permit its recreational use under a false pretext and trumped up diagnoses by sympathetic but corrupt medical practicianers; while simultaneously mocking and taking unscrupulous advantage of others with legitimate diagnoses.
</span>

The same could be, and is, easily charged against prescription drugs.

Take Methadone for example. What is it really? Well, it's synthetic Heroin. But it's prescribed. In fact, I know of a guy who actually is prescribed methadone by the VA for his injuries. He's taking friggin Heroin in pill form. What's worse: pot or heroin?


<span style="font-weight: bold">I know people who use the stuff. I consider them to be drug abusers, and I continue to avoid them just as I did in 'Nam, I also consider drug abuse to be a moral defect.</span>

Again, prescription pills.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I am especially concerned about how marajuana affects judgement and motor skills, and how it may ro may not influnce users while they are responsible for children's welfare. I don't want any of them anywhere near my grandchildren, regardless of whether or not they are under the influence at the particular time of the interaction.</span>

Prescription pills

<span style="font-weight: bold">I would greatly appreciate it if you were to share my views with the survey's author(s). I am not interested in initiating or participating in any dialogue on the subject (not negotiable), my views stand as presented, are to be considered as opinions only, and I have no other ones on the subject.</span>

No comment.

Greg</div></div>

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

double

 

[bcone]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I appreciate the comments and thoughts on the legality and concerns about why it should be illegal or legal as compared to perscription meds, although this is not what I am researching. I think we lost the angriest of our contributors so with that in mind please be respectful and keep on topic. Otherwise this thread will just get locked and I don't think that really helps anyone.

Merry Chistmas to one and all!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I lost my cool, I'm sorry to all. It just ticks me immensely to make a sincere effort to c0mply with the Mods' requests and then find myself being mocked, and on Christmas, too. Some folks know just what part of the back to insert the skewer for greatest effect.

Merry Christmas to all.

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

Greg, no worries. Everyone has their moments.

Given your concerns, and valid they are, have you considered that perhaps research would result in not only more regulation, but, actual benefit?

No matter what the research concludes, opinions will be able to be better formed.

Who knows, perhaps this study will enable the VA to be more effective, and scientific, in their implementation of this policy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/health/policy/24veterans.html



Merry Christmas, Greg!

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

Greg, it was not my intent to insult you, but rather make a point. I certainly, respect our right to your view, though I cannot respect the view itself. To close ones mind to learning new things is not a healthy state.

I tend to agree with you about stoners in many areas. Would I want a heart surgeon stoned while operating on me...no. A pilot stoned while negotiating a tricky landing....of course not. But in a trade such as I used to do, building things out of rocks, I found it used to help alleviate the boredom, and once or twice helped me do more creative work. Different scenario.

I have also seen the herbs positive effects on persons, espcially those with PTSD, and feel that what works for one, doesnt necesarily work for another. While comprazine may work for you it may be no good for another. Who are you to deny someone what they say works for them?Thats why we should have options available for all.

If you do your research, youll find many instances, including the ones I listed, that say it works.

Though I honor the Christ, I refuse to indulge in this joke they call Christmas, so Ill just wish you good health and as Spock used to say, "Live long and prosper".

El Maggot

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Greg, no worries. Everyone has their moments.

Given your concerns, and valid they are, have you considered that perhaps research would result in not only more regulation, but, actual benefit?

No matter what the research concludes, opinions will be able to be better formed.

Who knows, perhaps this study will enable the VA to be more effective, and scientific, in their implementation of this policy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/health/policy/24veterans.html



Merry Christmas, Greg!

</div></div>

Good link. I have an old friend in Nashville, a Vietnam vet, who finds the cannabis is better for him than the narcotics the VA give him. When he busted a piss test, and they threatened to cut off his pain meds, he told them "Keep you fuckin narcotics, this weed helps me a lot more. Apparently he is not alone.

Thanks for your logical and well thought out post.

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Greg, no worries. Everyone has their moments.

Given your concerns, and valid they are, have you considered that perhaps research would result in not only more regulation, but, actual benefit?

No matter what the research concludes, opinions will be able to be better formed.

Who knows, perhaps this study will enable the VA to be more effective, and scientific, in their implementation of this policy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/health/policy/24veterans.html



Merry Christmas, Greg!

</div></div>

Good link. I have an old friend in Nashville, a Vietnam vet, who finds the cannabis is better for him than the narcotics the VA give him. When he busted a piss test, and they threatened to cut off his pain meds, he told them "Keep you fuckin narcotics, this weed helps me a lot more. Apparently he is not alone.

Thanks for your logical and well thought out post.</div></div>

That's what I'm hearing from a lot of fellow vets as well.

It's unfortunately a moot point for a lot of vets though, if they want to get or retain a job. Frankly, after reading everything I can on the subject, I cannot conclude any reason pot is illegal and alcohol is legal. Nor can I foresee any real legal framework for testing a driver outside of smell, or other physiological signs. Certainly a piss test ain't gonna tell you if the guy was actually high while driving or operating machinery.

What I don't understand is how people can stomp their feet about things which are ultimately a personal decision. We see the same arguments against our evil guns, and they're nothing but emotional and always go back to personal responsibility. I, for one, am not willing to set such a precedent.

An old neighbor of mine used to completely hot box his apt. I could smell it creeping through the wall, though I didn't find the smell objectionable. Better than someone cooking menudo or something. But he owned his own business. Was a painting contractor, super stressed about multiple things. I asked him once why he smokes versus getting trashed like most "normal" Americans. His reply? " I can't be an effective worker if I drink the night before and I lead my crew from the front." Different strokes I suppose.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

My only objections to medical marajuana are that I believe restrictions on activities while under the influence should be the same as for other intoxicants, that responsibility toward children constitutes a special case in this area, and that its use in medical treatment be confined to use according to FDA guidelines for proven therapeutic pharmaceuticals.

There's a lot of snake oil out there that I have seen fellow patients get caught up in, and ultimately lose their lives because of misplaced belief in quackery. It very hard to watch a friend kill themselves by this means, but one stands by ones friends in any case. Many go into treatment, fewer come out, and we all share a bond. I can accept from them things I could not accept from myself. That's something I consider an important legacy from my time in The Corps.

I also object in the strongest terms to recreational use veiled in a conspiracy of dubious diagnosis combined with pseudo medical supply and demand. It mocks genuinely ill peoples' situations, and deliberately subverts laws intended to protect innocents. If one's intent is to circumvent the law, the least they can do is be honest about it.

My minds is far from shut, I give special breadth to the hopes and intents of people with potentially terminal illness; and it disturbs me greatly that folks might think it is. It cuts deeply, and in a way few other accusations can. I've been where many of those folks haven't, and I firmly believe my views have a basis in hard and cold experiential reality.

But I also recognize that the FDA and insurance underwriters have conservative views regarding what's right and what isn't, and that those views are also there to protect folks from needless suffering and death.

It may not be the best system, but it's the one we have until another, more demonstrably legitimate one supplants it. We cannot withhold our support for all but that which solely meets our every desire. In the absence of perfection we are wise to cling to that which has the more reasonably broad following.

BTW, I, too, recognize the incongruities inherent in the modern observance of Christmas. Despite that, I still observe it in the popular sense, because so many of those I know and love demonstrate their love toward their fellows in that most recognized manner. Such observance may combine both the fiction and the warmth in an acceptable packege, to my mind. One may bend for others' sake, without breaking.

Greg

 

[jbenson]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I am a veteran working with bcone and I use MC(medical cannabis)for the treatment of PTSD and GAD. We are trying to start a psycho-educational group to bring veterans together so they are not house bound pot smokers living off the system as you haters say. Don't knock it till you try it. My husband, also a veteran, was blown up three times and shot twice and the only way he can smoke at night is to smoke. OEF 2x

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbenson ssg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a veteran working with bcone and I use MC(medical cannabis)for the treatment of PTSD and GAD. We are trying to start a psycho-educational group to bring veterans together so they are not house bound pot smokers living off the system as you haters say. Don't knock it till you try it. My husband, also a veteran, was blown up three times and shot twice and the only way he can smoke at night is to smoke. OEF 2x
</div></div>

Good girl. Thank you, and welcome to the Hide.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I'm a vet.

I hope they legalize it.

Within that year, I will have enough money to never work again.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

This survey is all screwed up.

1. I don't think marijuana should be illegal OR legal/heavily regulated. It should be legal for any and all uses, at least for adults if not everyone.

2. Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use. It is a violation of federal law to possess or use marijuana, and it cannot be legally proscribed by a doctor.

Marijuana is not addictive, is far less dangerous than alcohol, and nobody has ever died from an overdose. I do not use it nor have any interest in using it, but if we're going to ban something, we ought to at least have some rational basis other than that DARE told us it was icky.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use. </div></div>

You've gotta get out from under that rock you're living under more often...

 

[Downzero]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use. </div></div>

You've gotta get out from under that rock you're living under more often...
</div></div>

You really don't want to go toe to toe with me on this issue, but since you insist, I suggest that you read Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1 (2005). Considering the federal criminal law is primarily about guns and drugs, I don't think you'll have to do much reading before you realize just how wrong you are.

But I've locked up dumbasses who think I live under a rock before, so be my guest--I'd be out of business if other people weren't ignorant of the actual state of the law rather than their preferred policy.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind--zero--that it is illegal to possess or use any quantity of marijuana in all 50 states.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a vet.

I hope they legalize it.

Within that year, I will have enough money to never work again.

</div></div>

Because you own a Pizzeria and your last name is Dorrito?

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I get pretty sever migraines courtesy of my TBI. When the Maxalt doesn't work, I have Compazine. That stuff knocks me out and leaves me drooling in drug induced sleep for hours. Part of the later migraine symptoms are nausea. The Maxalt doesn't fix that, but it does, after a double dose, usually stop the headache. The Compazine stops the nasuea, but at a heavier loss of time. I have often worndered just how effective weed would be if taken with the Maxalt at the same time. Maybe I'll find thaty out after I retire and have time to waste on such things

 

[bcone]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This survey is all screwed up.

1. I don't think marijuana should be illegal OR legal/heavily regulated. It should be legal for any and all uses, at least for adults if not everyone.

<span style="color: #003300">The survey says legal and WELL regulated. Much in the same way that alchohol and tabacco are. At least declassifying it to a schedule II drug which would allow for research. </span>

2. Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use. It is a violation of federal law to possess or use marijuana, and it cannot be legally proscribed by a doctor.

<span style="color: #003300"> This is an issue concerning the 10th and 14th amendments which will soon play out in the courts. </span>

</div></div>

 

[Downzero]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This survey is all screwed up.

1. I don't think marijuana should be illegal OR legal/heavily regulated. It should be legal for any and all uses, at least for adults if not everyone.

<span style="color: #003300">The survey says legal and WELL regulated. Much in the same way that alchohol and tabacco are. At least declassifying it to a schedule II drug which would allow for research. </span>

2. Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use. It is a violation of federal law to possess or use marijuana, and it cannot be legally proscribed by a doctor.

<span style="color: #003300"> This is an issue concerning the 10th and 14th amendments which will soon play out in the courts. </span>

</div></div> </div></div>

The issue has already played out in the Supreme Court. Marijuana is illegal. I posted the case citation for you above.

I already stated my preferred policy. It doesn't follow that if my preferred policy is not the law, that the law is unconstitutional.

For better or worse, this is a dead issue as a matter of federal law and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

 

[Tims]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I have lived in California all my life. I've known alot of people who smoke pot. Before medical marijuana came along they all smoked pot to get high. Now they all have prescriptions and are treating a medical condition.If pot is your drug of choise to get high come out and say it. Stop hiding behind the so called "medical" use of marijuana.

 

[Loner]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I know some Vets that it helps.
Let them have it if they want it.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get pretty sever migraines courtesy of my TBI. When the Maxalt doesn't work, I have Compazine. That stuff knocks me out and leaves me drooling in drug induced sleep for hours. Part of the later migraine symptoms are nausea. The Maxalt doesn't fix that, but it does, after a double dose, usually stop the headache. The Compazine stops the nasuea, but at a heavier loss of time. I have often worndered just how effective weed would be if taken with the Maxalt at the same time. Maybe I'll find thaty out after I retire and have time to waste on such things </div></div>

Your health and peace of mind is a waste of time?

 

[Tunanut]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I think we need a 10% national sales tax to build more prisons, hire more federal law enforcement, and prosicutors to go after the 75 million americans that have smoked weed. Heck, there's at least 12 million a month getting away with breaking federal law just this month alone. These hippies need to be punished and the rest of us should be taxed to hell to do it. And since most of the DA's and ADA's I've met do not want to prosicute pot charges, it has to be done of a federal level. We can not let these criminals continue to get away with breaking the law.

 

[Bill Larson]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

Tunanut is correct..... we`ve spent the last 50 years trying to control it...and billions $$$$ ....people high up don`t want to see it legal....$$$$$$$$
TAX it....Legalize it.....sell drugs outa drugstores.... like our fathers saw....get dealers off the street.... shut down the DEA...
Use tax money for alot of other good uses....
bill larson

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Tunanut is correct..... we`ve spent the last 50 years trying to control it...and billions $$$$ ....people high up don`t want to see it legal....$$$$$$$$
TAX it....Legalize it.....sell drugs outa drugstores.... like our fathers saw....get dealers off the street.... shut down the DEA...
Use tax money for alot of other good uses....
bill larson </div></div>

Larson for President.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

The scarcity of dumb asses would certainly be resolved with legalization!

Wait, there is no shortage of dumb asses...

Well I guess we can stand a shit load more as long there is additional tax revenue to keep all the government programs and parasites funded and retired in luxury!

Yay! More taxes!

 

[bcone]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">=Downzero The issue has already played out in the Supreme Court. Marijuana is illegal. I posted the case citation for you above.

I already stated my preferred policy. It doesn't follow that if my preferred policy is not the law, that the law is unconstitutional.

For better or worse, this is a dead issue as a matter of federal law and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. </div></div>

Medical Marijuana Lawsuit: Pot Advocates Sue Federal Government Over California Crackdown

"Plaintiffs' attorneys cited a Santa Cruz County medical marijuana cooperative's agreement with federal prosecutors to dismiss its case against the government because the department issued a memo telling U.S. attorneys to defer to states on medical use of the drug."

"The California lawsuits argue that the federal government is also violating the 14th Amendment of the Constitution requiring equal protection under the law because medical marijuana operations in Colorado are not facing a similar crackdown.

The suits claim patients' rights to make their own health decisions are protected by the 9th Amendment, which retains rights for citizens not explicitly spelled out in the Constitution, and that the so-called Commerce Clause of the Constitution prevented the federal government from getting involved in an issue purely related to the in-state marijuana trade.

National medical marijuana advocacy group Americans for Safe Access filed its own suit last month challenging the federal crackdown. That suit claims that recent raids of licensed dispensaries and letters warning city officials they could be prosecuted for trying to regulate medical marijuana cultivation and sales constitute an illegal power grab under the 10th Amendment. The amendment awards to states legislative authority not explicitly reserved for the federal government."

2 Governors Asking U.S. to Ease Rules on Marijuana to Allow for Its Medical Use
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/us/fed...chafee-say.html

"“The divergence in state and federal law creates a situation where there is no regulated and safe system to supply legitimate patients who may need medical cannabis,” the governors wrote Wednesday to Michele M. Leonhart, the administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration.

Marijuana is currently classified by the federal government as a Schedule I controlled substance, the same category as heroin and L.S.D. Drugs with that classification, the government says, have a high potential for abuse and “no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.”

The governors want marijuana reclassified as a Schedule II controlled substance, which would put it in the same category as drugs like cocaine, opium and morphine. The federal government says that those drugs have a strong potential for abuse and addiction, but that they also have “some accepted medical use and may be prescribed, administered or dispensed for medical use.”

Simply reclassifying marijuana would be an end run around a Supreme Court reversal. The Supreme Court does reverse itself if they find that the decision was flawed, e.g. Dred Scott.

 

[bcone]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Tunanut is correct..... we`ve spent the last 50 years trying to control it...and billions $$$$ ....people high up don`t want to see it legal....$$$$$$$$
TAX it....Legalize it.....sell drugs outa drugstores.... like our fathers saw....get dealers off the street.... shut down the DEA...
Use tax money for alot of other good uses....
bill larson </div></div>

Off topic in terms of Vets and use, but here you go.
From the LA times.

"California tax authorities estimate that the state currently collects $58 million to $105 million in sales taxes on $700 to $1.3 billion in annual retail sales of medical marijuana, said Anita Gore, a board spokeswoman."

Medical-marijuana sales tax nets $2.2 million for Colorado this year - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana/ci_16688199#ixzz1hnpU8drH
So far this year, the state has collected more than $2.2 million in sales tax from dispensaries. In Denver, which has more dispensaries than any other city in Colorado, the businesses have also paid more than $2.2 million this year in local sales tax. Colorado Springs has collected about $380,000 in local sales tax.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use. </div></div>

You've gotta get out from under that rock you're living under more often...
</div></div>

You really don't want to go toe to toe with me on this issue, but since you insist, I suggest that you read Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1 (2005). Considering the federal criminal law is primarily about guns and drugs, I don't think you'll have to do much reading before you realize just how wrong you are.

But I've locked up dumbasses who think I live under a rock before, so be my guest--I'd be out of business if other people weren't ignorant of the actual state of the law rather than their preferred policy.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind--zero--that it is illegal to possess or use any quantity of marijuana in all 50 states. </div></div>

Your cited case is irrelevant. You said "Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use" which <span style="text-decoration: underline">IS</span> false. Many states have decriminalized marijuana. The federal system has not, so yes it's still illegal in all states but states enforce marijuana laws and if the people of that state chose to decriminalize marijuana than there's no enforcement of the state/federal law. Obviously there are exceptions where the federal system trumps the state system in terms of marijuana but those are extreme cases and outside of the scope of this conversation. Many <span style="text-decoration: underline">states</span> HAVE decriminalized marijuana, the <span style="text-decoration: underline">Fed</span> has not.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get pretty sever migraines courtesy of my TBI. When the Maxalt doesn't work, I have Compazine. That stuff knocks me out and leaves me drooling in drug induced sleep for hours. Part of the later migraine symptoms are nausea. The Maxalt doesn't fix that, but it does, after a double dose, usually stop the headache. The Compazine stops the nasuea, but at a heavier loss of time. I have often worndered just how effective weed would be if taken with the Maxalt at the same time. Maybe I'll find thaty out after I retire and have time to waste on such things </div></div>

Your health and peace of mind is a waste of time? </div></div>

Ah, I see you figured out where I was going with that. I would love a small pill that would kill the migraine and the nasuea sans any drop and drool effects, but no one had made one yet. The loss of time(4 - 8 hours) is close to burning up a half day waiting to recover, which to me, is valuable time spent on homework to earn my grades. Fortunately, I have had very few during actual school time or while doing homework.


As to decriminalized pot, I suppose it is what it is. Feds tread on State's rights over a simple weed? Anyone can grow it in a small bucket in any house. It doesn't take much brain power to grow the stuff because it's a freakin weed. Devalueing the underground sales, destroying illegal dealer's business, and taking the evil part of it away appears to be a very good way to do things. We HAVE seen what the prohibition is, and has done over the last 50 years...jack shit, and it has created the largest class of criminal's and crime organizations we have ever seen. As I said, I choose not to play with it myself, but have no grief for those who want to...keeps the good jobs open for guys like me in the future, and that ain't a bad thing, is it?

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7Q6sUP4NHVs"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7Q6sUP4NHVs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[netranger6]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seeing as how some got kicked out with negative response to weed thought i would do a little test. First time through answered aginst weed made it 5 questions next time in favor of it and got all the way through. That might have an effect on end statistics i think. </div></div>

There you have it, a retarded survery with bias embedded. Wonder what the R2 will be like after this sample.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

There are many more places that I would rather my tax dollars be spent on other than chasing and running marijuana users through the legal system, then incarcerating them.

I don't smoke it, but would much rather my tax dollars go toward incarcerating more burglars, car clouters, or geez, maybe even giving military service people a raise in pay.

 

[netranger6]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

Okay, here's my take, and I have the bud tatooed on my left forearm to prove it. Fuck it, let's just make it legal and slap the age of majority onto it at the Federal level. This will infuse cash into our economies, spur crop production, and kill the rivaling cartels world wide. If you're ambition is to suppress a "head" ache while slamming the dew and playing hours of MMW3, then so be it. This world has to have it's fair balance of those that "have" and those that "have not". Means my children will have a higher rate of possible success with less competition in the market.

Man, I smoked so much shit in my early days I actually had it inked on my arm by Alf Diamond, in Sachsenahusen, Frankfurt. My buds and I used to jump the mini-John Travolta's (Turks) in the train stations for their sticks of hashish and coin. I actually lived off the crop in Ft.Lauderdale for a year or so, until a buddy got busted, and I figured I was next. At 22, I actually attended a NORMAL rally on the damn City Hall steps.

Looking back I don't regret any of it, because now, I see clearly and have different goals. Would I like to pack a Hooka with some bud every once and a while? Sure, but I would be stoned in 3 hits and act like a nervous fucktard for 6 hours. 6 hours I can't get back, time lost with my son.

Pot will do one thing, and this is from a daily smoker for years. It will make you think without ambition or motivation. Sure, you'll say cool shit like, "man, when I finish college..", or "dude, someday I'll have enough to get a house like that..", or "I'm gonna get my shit together next week..". All in all, it's a choice... I say LEGALize it and let the cards fall where they will fall...less competition in the pool...

 

[Downzero]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use. </div></div>

You've gotta get out from under that rock you're living under more often...
</div></div>

You really don't want to go toe to toe with me on this issue, but since you insist, I suggest that you read Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1 (2005). Considering the federal criminal law is primarily about guns and drugs, I don't think you'll have to do much reading before you realize just how wrong you are.

But I've locked up dumbasses who think I live under a rock before, so be my guest--I'd be out of business if other people weren't ignorant of the actual state of the law rather than their preferred policy.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind--zero--that it is illegal to possess or use any quantity of marijuana in all 50 states. </div></div>

Your cited case is irrelevant. You said "Marijuana is not legal in any state for medicinal or any other use" which <span style="text-decoration: underline">IS</span> false. Many states have decriminalized marijuana. The federal system has not, so yes it's still illegal in all states but states enforce marijuana laws and if the people of that state chose to decriminalize marijuana than there's no enforcement of the state/federal law. Obviously there are exceptions where the federal system trumps the state system in terms of marijuana but those are extreme cases and outside of the scope of this conversation. Many <span style="text-decoration: underline">states</span> HAVE decriminalized marijuana, the <span style="text-decoration: underline">Fed</span> has not. </div></div>

You forgot the conclusion, "and it doesn't matter if the state decriminalizes it, as federal law prohibits possession of marijuana."

Accordingly, marijuana is illegal in all 50 states, period.

My cited case is not only directly relevant to this conversation, it addresses and analyzes the specific constitutional basis for the federal law that makes marijuana illegal in <span style="font-style: italic">every </span>state.

Just because you prefer otherwise (and I agree with you), doesn't change the state of the law. And the law <span style="font-style: italic">is </span>that marijuana is illegal. Hopefully one day we'll change that. But until then, it's still illegal and people are still getting locked up for it.

 

[Junior's 12 Valve]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

I couldn't care less about the subject. If people want to get high, let them get high. If they want to get drunk, let them get drunk. I do believe that most every other stimulant and depressant is worse than pot, hell, even caffine. I don't snoop into others' business, and I prefer no one snoops into mine.

True, it could be used and taxed, but the thing I'm wondering, is how many lawsuits will be filed for all who went/is in prison for it at the moment. I say keep them there, because they were breaking the law and they know it, but we all know that in today's society, that's not how it's going to go down.

Although for the time being, if you have a mmj card, on the BATFE 4473 for you have to answer yes to question e.

 

[bcone]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seeing as how some got kicked out with negative response to weed thought i would do a little test. First time through answered aginst weed made it 5 questions next time in favor of it and got all the way through. That might have an effect on end statistics i think. </div></div>

There you have it, a retarded survery with bias embedded. Wonder what the R2 will be like after this sample. </div></div>

Please explain how this biases the sample.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But until then, it's still illegal and people are still getting locked up for it. </div></div>

Sounds like we're on the same page but are stuck on the semantics.

 

[netranger6]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seeing as how some got kicked out with negative response to weed thought i would do a little test. First time through answered aginst weed made it 5 questions next time in favor of it and got all the way through. That might have an effect on end statistics i think. </div></div>

There you have it, a retarded survery with bias embedded. Wonder what the R2 will be like after this sample. </div></div>

Please explain how this biases the sample. </div></div>

Well, I suppose that really depends on what they're holding constant. Take the survey, answer with a leaning against the medicinal purposes, and your survey ends at or about question 5. RE-take it, with a more liberal view, and continue to the end...seems skewed.

 

[*greenhorn*]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

91 now 92 post i though this would have died out lol

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

A friend just sent this to me. Cannabis is valuable for far more than medicine. Read the following and youll gain some understanding of why big business wants it kept illegal.






They say marijuana is dangerous. pot is not harmful to the human body or mind. marijuana does not pose a threat to the general public. Marijuana is very much a danger to the oil companies, alcohol, tobacco industries and a large number of chemical corporations. Big businesses, with plenty of dollars and influence, have suppressed the truth from the people. The truth is, if marijuana was utilized for its vast array of commercial products, it would create an industrial atomic bomb! The super rich have conspired to spread misinformation about the plant that, if used properly, would ruin their companies.


Where did the word ‘marijuana’ come from? In the mid 1930s, the M-word was created to tarnish the good image and phenomenal history of the hemp plant – as you will read. The facts cited here, with references, are generally verifiable in the Encyclopedia Britannica which was printed on hemp paper for 150 years:
All schoolbooks were made from hemp or flax paper until the 1880s. (Jack Frazier. Hemp Paper Reconsidered. 1974.)
It was legal to pay taxes with hemp in America from 1631 until the early 1800s. (LA Times. Aug. 12, 1981.)
Refusing to grow hemp in America during the 17th and 18th centuries was against the law! You could be jailed in Virginia for refusing to grow hemp from 1763 to 1769 (G. M. Herdon. Hemp in Colonial Virginia ).
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers grew hemp. (Washington and Jefferson Diaries. Jefferson smuggled hemp seeds from China to France then to America .)
Benjamin Franklin owned one of the first paper mills in America, and it processed hemp. Also, the War of 1812 was fought over hemp. Napoleon wanted to cut off Moscow ’s export to England . (Jack Herer. Emperor Wears No Clothes.)
For thousands of years, 90% of all ships’ sails and rope were made from hemp. The word ‘canvas’ is Dutch for cannabis. (Webster’s New World Dictionary.)
80% of all textiles, fabrics, clothes, linen, drapes, bed sheets, etc.,were made from hemp until the 1820s, with the introduction of the cotton gin.
The first Bibles, maps, charts, Betsy Ross’s flag, the first drafts of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were made from hemp. ( U.S. Government Archives.)
The first crop grown in many states was hemp. 1850 was a peak year for Kentucky producing 40,000 tons.Hemp was the largest cash crop until the 20th century. (State Archives.)
Oldest known records of hemp farming go back 5000 years in China , although hemp industrialization probably goes back to ancient Egypt .
Rembrandt’s, Van Gogh’s, Gainsborough’s, as well as most early canvas paintings, were principally painted on hemp linen.
In 1916, the U.S. Government predicted that by the 1940s all paper would come from hemp and that no more trees need to be cut down. Government studies report that 1 acre of hemp equals 4.1 acres of trees. Plans were in the works to implement such programs. ( U.S. Department of Agriculture Archives.)
Quality paints and varnishes were made from hemp seed oil until 1937. 58,000 tons of hemp seeds were used in America for paint products in 1935. (Sherman Williams Paint Co. testimony before the U.S.Congress against the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act.)
Henry Ford’s first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the car itself was constructed from hemp! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, ‘grown from the soil,’ had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel. (Popular Mechanics, 1941.)
In 1938, hemp was called ‘Billion Dollar Crop.’ It was the first time a cash crop had a business potential to exceed a billion dollars. (Popular Mechanics, Feb. 1938.)
Mechanical Engineering Magazine (Feb. 1938) published an article entitled ‘The Most Profitable and Desirable Crop that Can be Grown.’ It stated that if hemp was cultivated using 20th century technology, it would be the single largest agricultural crop in the U.S. and the rest of the world.


The following information comes directly from the United States Department of Agriculture’s 1942 14-minute film encouraging and instructing ‘patriotic American farmers’ to grow 350,000 acres of hemp each year for the war effort:


“…[When] Grecian temples were new, hemp was already old in the service of mankind. For thousands of years, even then, this plant had been grown for cordage and cloth in China and elsewhere in the East. For centuries prior to about 1850, all the ships that sailed the western seas were rigged with hempen rope and sails. For the sailor, no less than the hangman, hemp was indispensable… Now with Philippine and East Indian sources of hemp in the hands of the Japanese… American hemp must meet the needs of our Army and Navy as well as of our industries… The Navy’s rapidly dwindling reserves.When that is gone, American hemp will go on duty again; hemp for mooring ships; hemp for tow lines; hemp for tackle and gear; hemp for countless naval uses both on ship and shore. Just as in the days when Old Ironsides sailed the seas victorious
with her hempen shrouds and hempen sails. Hemp for victory!”


Certified proof from the Library of Congress, found by the research of Jack Herer, refutes claims of other government agencies that the 1942 USDA film ‘Hemp for Victory’ did not exist.


Hemp cultivation and production do not harm the environment. The USDA Bulletin #404 concluded that hemp produces four times as much pulp with at least four to seven times less pollution.


From Popular Mechanics, February 1938:
“It has a short growing season… It can be grown in any state… The long roots penetrate and break the soil to leave it in perfect condition for the next year’s crop. The dense shock of leaves, 8 to 12 feet above the ground, chokes out weeds. …Hemp, this new crop can add immeasurably to American agriculture and industry.” In the 1930s, innovations in farm machinery would have caused an industrial revolution when applied to hemp. This single resource could have created millions of new jobs generating thousands of quality products. Hemp, if not made illegal,would have brought America out of the Great Depression.


THE CONSPIRACY


William Randolph Hearst (Citizen Kane) and the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division of Kimberly Clark owned vast acreage of timberlands. The Hearst Company supplied most paper products. Patty Hearst’s grandfather, a destroyer of nature for his own personal profit, stood to lose billions because of hemp.


In 1937, DuPont patented the processes to make plastics from oil and coal. DuPont’s Annual Report urged stockholders to invest in its new petrochemical division. Synthetics such as plastics, cellophane, celluloid, methanol, nylon, rayon, Dacron, etc., could now be made from oil.Natural hemp industrialization would have ruined over 80% of DuPont’s business.


Andrew Mellon became Hoover ’s Secretary of the Treasury and DuPont’s primary investor. He appointed his future nephew-in-law,Harry J.Anslinger, to head the Federal Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs.


Secret meetings were held by these financial tycoons. Hemp was declared dangerous and a threat to their billion dollar enterprises. For their dynasties to remain intact, hemp had to go. These men took an obscure Mexican slang word: ‘marijuana’ and pushed it into the consciousness of America .


MEDIA MANIPULATION HEMP


A media blitz of ‘yellow journalism’ raged in the late 1920s and 1930s. Hearst’s newspapers ran stories emphasizing the horrors of marijuana. The menace of marijuana made headlines. Readers learned that it was responsible for everything from car accidents to loose morality.


Films like Reefer Madness (1936), Marijuana: Assassin of Youth (1935) and Marijuana: The Devil’s Weed (1936) were propaganda designed by these industrialists to create an enemy. Their purpose was to gain public support so that anti-marijuana laws could be passed.


Examine the following quotes from The Burning Question, aka Reefer Madness:
a violent narcotic;
acts of shocking violence;
incurable insanity;
soul-destroying effects;
under the influence of the drug he killed his entire family with an ax;
more vicious, more deadly even than these soul-destroying drugs (heroin, cocaine) is the menace of marijuana!
Reefer Madness did not end with the usual ‘the end.’ The film concluded with these words plastered on the screen: ‘Tell your children.’


In the 1930s, people were very naive, even to the point of ignorance. The masses were like sheep waiting to be led by the few in power. They did not challenge authority. If the news was in print or on the radio, they believed it had to be true. They told their children, and their children grew up to be the parents of the babyboomers.


On April 14, 1937, the prohibitive Marijuana Tax Law, or the bill that outlawed hemp, was directly brought to the House Ways and Means Committee. This committee is the only one that can introduce a bill to the House floor without it being debated by other committees. The Chairman of the U.S. Senate, Ways and Means Committee, at the time,Robert Doughton, was a DuPont supporter. He insured that the bill would pass Congress.


Dr. James Woodward, a physician and attorney, testified too late on behalf of the American Medical Association. He told the committee that the reason the AMA had not denounced the Marijuana Tax Law sooner was that the Association had just discovered that marijuana was hemp.


Few people, at the time, realized that the deadly menace they had been reading about on Hearst’s front pages was in fact passive hemp. The AMA understood cannabis to be a medicine found in numerous healing products sold over the last hundred years.


In September of 1937, hemp became illegal. The most useful crop known became a drug and our planet has been suffering ever since.


Congress banned hemp because it was said to be the most violence-causing drug known. Harry Anslinger, head of the Drug Commission for 31 years, promoted the idea that marijuana made users act extremely violent. In the 1950s, under the Communist threat ofMcCarthyism, Anslinger then said the exact opposite: marijuana will pacify you so much that soldiers would not want to fight.


Today, our planet is in desperate trouble. Earth is suffocating as large tracts of rain forests disappear. Pollution, poisons and chemicals are killing people. These great problems could be reversed if we industrialized hemp. Natural biomass could provide all of the planet’s energy needs that are currently supplied by fossil fuels.We have consumed 80% of our oil and gas reserves.We need a renewable resource. Hemp could be the solution to soaring gas prices.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

The Constitution and the other founding documents are written on parchment, which is an animal skin, not hemp, and thus not even paper.

If you're going to bring "facts" to the table, my suggestion is that they actually are facts, not regurgitated nonsense.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Constitution and the other founding documents are written on parchment, which is an animal skin, not hemp, and thus not even paper.

If you're going to bring "facts" to the table, my suggestion is that they actually are facts, not regurgitated nonsense. </div></div>

I just reposted it. Good eye, I didnt catch that. I think that youll find most of the other stuff pretty accurate.

The one fact that reaaly counts, is that a few, through the use of propaganda and fear, have made a valuable tool and medicine unavailable to many. For money. That, in my opinion, is the real crime.

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Constitution and the other founding documents are written on parchment, which is an animal skin, not hemp, and thus not even paper.

If you're going to bring "facts" to the table, my suggestion is that they actually are facts, not regurgitated nonsense.</div></div>

Thanks for the correction. I was misinformed on that aspect. However, it has merit:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is likely, however, that drafts of the documents were written on paper made from hemp. In that period, most paper was made from hemp or flax and a mixture of recycled rags and cloth.</div></div>

Source: http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_a8.html

It still doesn't really change the facts as they stand though.

Hemp has always had a place in American society until big business, for multiple reasons, seized on the climate of the time to make it illegal when in fact it had been known and used for thousands of years, and since the beginning of America.

Its medicinal properties have never been fully explored, in light of this ridiculous ban which was based on faulty science, emotionalism, and a sort of "we know better" mentality which conveniently transferred legitimacy to outright synthetic chemicals as something better to natural chemicals which the body already has receptors for.

In the end, the argument remains emotional for both sides to a degree. One side emotionally touts false science, ignorance, and medicine, and the other side touts potential scientific breakthrough and emotional appeals regarding them same.

What I'd be interested in, frankly, is the American public's reaction to the bare bones facts on pot which is demonstrably safer than alcohol or cigarettes, and certainly hold no more objections, but stands tall, in the face of emotional appeals to continued synthetic choices as the only means.

That abuse of anything exists in this culture is not a reason to merely ban it. It just means people inherently suck and seek ways to destroy themselves.

 

[bcone]

Re: Veterans and Medical Marijuana Survey.

We are making the changes to the survey that some of you have suggested. Thanks for taking the time to participate.


[i<span style="color: #000066">]"What I'd be interested in, frankly, is the American public's reaction to the bare bones facts on pot" </span> [/i]

<span style="font-style: italic">The Report of the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse
Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding
Commissioned by President Richard M. Nixon, March, 1972

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm

Specifically, the Commission recommended "a social control policy seeking to discourage marijuana use, while concentrating primarily on the prevention of heavy and very heavy use." The report noted that society can provide incentives for certain behavior without prosecuting the unwilling, citing the example that "the family unit and the institution of marriage are preferred means of group-living and child-rearing in our society. As a society, we are not neutral. We officially encourage matrimony by giving married couples favorable tax treatment; but we do not compel people to get married."

The Commission recommended decriminalization of simple possession, finding:

[T]he criminal law is too harsh a tool to apply to personal possession even in the effort to discourage use. It implies an overwhelming indictment of the behavior which we believe is not appropriate. The actual and potential harm of use of the drug is not great enough to justify intrusion by the criminal law into private behavior, a step which our society takes only 'with the greatest reluctance.

The Commission found that the <span style="font-weight: bold">constitutionality of marijuana prohibition was suspect</span>, and that the executive and legislative branches had a responsibility to obey the Constitution, even in the absence of a court ruling to do so:

While the judiciary is the governmental institution most directly concerned with the protection of individual liberties, all policy-makers have a responsibility to consider our constitutional heritage when framing public policy. Regardless of whether or not the courts would overturn a prohibition of possession of marijuana for personal use in the home, we are necessarily influenced by the high place traditionally occupied by the value of privacy in our constitutional scheme.

The Commission also found that "the use of drugs for pleasure or other non-medical purposes is not inherently irresponsible; alcohol is widely used as an acceptable part of social activities"[3].</span>

Completely ignored by the Nixon Administration. Maybe folks should re read this.

What I find the most ironic about the current west coast crackdown is that Marijuana is defined as legal as per local law in Washington D.C. (never mind Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington) And they are cracking down in CA and OR only. Seems like selective enforcement to me.