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Rifle Scopes Viper PST 6-24 Failure - AGAIN!

DeepEastKilla

DeepEastKilla

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Dec 31, 2009
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S/E Minnesota
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Well, it looks like I will be sending in my PST again. For the second time within a year there is moisture / grease stuck on the inside glass. Last time this happened they told me it was moisture, but when I brought it to their attention this time they are claiming that the internal grease must have became less viscous and splattered onto the lens. I figured I would post this to keep a public documentation of the situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY1grKlkF0A

Here is the email I sent them yesterday(5/26/2014)
Well, unfortunately for the second time my Viper PST 6-24x50mm FFP MIL riflescope has failed me. I would normally be much less upset about the issue, but this is the second time this exact same issue has happened. I know to some the PST line is a middle of the road scope, but for myself $950 is a lot to spend on glass and I really went out on a limb to try your product on the recommendation of many other shooters. Last time this happened, you were able to take care of the problem by purging the scope and re-sealing it, but being that the same issue has happened twice now I am led to believe the problem lies within the scope itself. I have done nothing to abuse the scope, it has never been dropped and has lived its life on a heavy .308 which has fairly soft recoil. I really cannot explain why this would have happened, but I would really hope you guys could take care of the issue. Being that it is the second time this scope has had moisture in it I don't think it would be too much to ask for a complete replacement rather than another servicing. I am fine with sending in everything with the scope, I just don't want to keep getting screwed by this optic which clearly has issues that persist beyond a simple purge and repair. I don't know if you guys keep a record of the repairs, but my S/N is -------- and it was repaired in July 2013. Since then I have only been able to shoot it a handful of times and yet it still managed to accumulate water droplets inside.

Please contact me ASAP. Thanks, Mike --------.

Their Reply(5/27/2014)
Good afternoon,



Thank you for contacting Vortex Optics. I am very sorry to hear about the moisture again. This is actually grease that is already in the scope, it is not coming from an outside factor. They cleaned the reticle off last summer when the scope was in for service. Sounds like they did not get all of the excessive grease out of the scope. Also, as the weather warms up the grease thins out and can splatter onto the reticle during recoil. However, it is a problem none the less. Generally, once the scopes grease is cleaned out this will not occur a second time from what I have experienced. I am happy to send a shipping label that I have attached to this e-mail to get the scope in. I will have it come to my attention and have our lead technician take a look at it. I cannot promise a replacement. As with our warranty repair comes first and this is an issue that can be resolved for good. The replacement decision will be made by our technician. I have also attached the repair form to send in with it. Let me know if you need anything in the meantime. I will be keeping my eye out for the scope.



Kind regards, ----------



Hopefully they can get this sorted out.... AGAIN :s
 
Here are some pictures of the fun.
 

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Yikes! I was looking at getting one of these.... Still at least they aren't hassling you about the issue.
 
gungeek1992 said:
Yikes! I was looking at getting one of these.... Still at least they aren't hassling you about the issue.
Click to expand...

They better not. If they start being anything less than stellar with replacing screwed up scopes theyll be toast pretty quick. Im about to send my 4th vortex in again. 2nd time on this scope alone. Its a 4-16 pst sfp thats been dark as hell since day one. My 20x swfa is more clear than it and its a third of the price with higher magnification and a smaller objective. Pending how they handle this issue will determine whether I recommend them anymore and if I buy any more of their scopes.

The OPs issue is all too common unfortunately.
 
1slow01z71 said:
The OPs issue is all too common unfortunately.
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Heresy! Heresy I say.
A pox upon you and your offspring.
How dare you suggest that the PST line isn't the greatest riflescope offering since the advent of magnified optics!
Don't you know that these are 2500 dollar scopes for 800 bucks????
Who cares how often they break, go dark or have crap on the lenses, their customer service is the best in the business!
 
I bought a Viper PST 6-24x50 SFP MRad for my .338 LM and I have had excellent customer service. I will be replacing it though because it doesn't have enough elevation travel to get me to 1740yds without using full travel, and dialing the magnification back to 6x and a 2.5 mil holdover. It gets me close but not what I expected from Vortex. That is the only issue that I've had with mine. It's otherwise a great scope. Too bad I had it cerakoted before I had a chance to find out that it won't work for what I want.
 
I must say, I had very high hopes for this scope as many here and in other places sung their praises for years. It does seem that that ship has somewhat sailed as, while their CS is great, their products (bar spending $1500+) just dont seem to hold up. Im seeing issues from them becoming more and more common and while I would bad mouth them or tell someone specifically not to buy from vortex, I cant say that they are on my short list for a new scope anymore.
 
fdkay said:
Heresy! Heresy I say.
A pox upon you and your offspring.
How dare you suggest that the PST line isn't the greatest riflescope offering since the advent of magnified optics!
Don't you know that these are 2500 dollar scopes for 800 bucks????
Who cares how often they break, go dark or have crap on the lenses, their customer service is the best in the business!
Click to expand...
Thats not completely fair either. What ive found after owning half a dozen is that its highly dependent upon the actual model in their PST line and even that particular scope. My old 4-16 was much clearer. Ive sent the current one back once for clarity issues and its just as bad. On the other hand my 2.5-10x32 is awesome with great glass. I see no reason to upgrade it to a nightforce when its not a battle rifle. I was happy with my 1-4 as well and wouldnt hesitate to buy another. Now the 4-16 and 6-24, they seem to be extremely hit or miss. Ones with the metal mag ring seem to fair better from what I've read on here. Ill will be seeing if theyll upgraded me to a 6-24 ffp with metal mag ring this next go round even if I have to pay a little out of pocket I dont care. If that doesnt work I'll be done with them and move on to HDMRs and SWFA HDs.
 
I own 4 PST scopes and never had an issue like this including with my 6-24x FFP... The 4-16x PST I didn't like as I found the optics to be less than desirable compared to the rest of the PST line but never any issues like you described. Maybe someone on the shop floor got heavy handed with the grease on a batch. All my PST still have the rubber rings, I really hope their QC hasn't fell off the bandwagon as my next purchase will be the Razor Gen II.

If you are truly done with Vortex or the PST line, I would look hard at the SWFA HD 5-20... even with the lack of all the bells and whistles the PST offers its one of my favorite scopes especially if you are looking for an upgrade from an optics standpoint.

That said, I think it’s fair to say “shit happens” and can happen to any manufacture, while it’s an inconvenience at least they are stepping up to the plate and taking care of it on their dime.
 
Thanks for the update on Vortex. I have Vortex binocs and one mil-dot riflescope. No issues. Was thinking of another scope for a 300winmag. I will wait and see the details on this issue.
 
Well the scope was bought back in July of 2012. Didn't have any issues until July 2013. Unfortunately I haven't been able to do much shooting this past year, but even still this just popped up from normal use. I can say, that both times this happened it was when it was hot and muggy 90*+ with high humidity so their viscous grease statement may make sense. That being said if that is true Ive got to wonder how people in southern states don't have this issue all the time.
 
I regularly shoot in the desert where it’s typically 80F to 100F and haven’t had an issue with grease making itself present on the reticle. Often times the rifle and scope sit in the car where it bakes in direct sunlight too before use.

I’m just going to chock it up to bad luck, and someone heavy handed on the grease.

I’ve had really positive experiences with Vortex and the PST line so I wouldn’t give up on them just yet… but I can see the frustration. I don’t think I would be too pleased having to remove, remount, and re-zero because of manufacture issues.
 
If you want something with lots of features and dependability you need to spend more it's as simple as that. Nothing against cheaper scopes like the PSTs, SWFAs, Millets, whatever just that if you really could get Nightforce reliability for 800 bucks then nobody would be spending 2k on nightforce.

As an aside if it is still holding zero and tracking then you shouldn't be pissing and moaning. A cosmetic failure is far better than a mechanical one.
 
Are you completely sure the scope is still holding its zero perfectly? Quite a few PSTs here on the forum with issues like yours also experienced a loss of ability to hold zero at the same time. Most of them were on rifles with muzzle brakes (as I see yours has). Most of them were on rifles larger than .308, though.
 
I haven't seen any zero holding issues. Then again, like I said I have not been able to shoot it a lot since it was sent in last time. I havent been cranking on the turrets so that hasnt come into the equation either. I can tell you that if that does happen I will be taking my business elsewhere for good.
 
fdkay said:
Who cares how often they break, go dark or have crap on the lenses, their customer service is the best in the business!
Click to expand...

My sarcasm radar is fading...I am hoping that is what you were trying to relay.
 
Some rifles are just hard on scopes.

I've had no problems with PSTs on ARs, 10-22s, etc. But my M1A has been hard on everything. If I scope it again it'll be a nightforce.

Send the PST back. Ask for a whole new scope. Sell the scope on here and put the money towards a nightforce. Use good rings, lapp and torque them. You shouldn't have this issue again.
 
I have the Viper PST 4-16FFP and the 6-24FFP I haven't had any problems with them so far, but they haven't been on anything other than a 308 and 223. I have thought about selling them and putting the money towards a NF BEST, but I don't know when or where I could get one anytime soon.
 
BCP said:
Some rifles are just hard on scopes.

I've had no problems with PSTs on ARs, 10-22s, etc. But my M1A has been hard on everything. If I scope it again it'll be a nightforce.

Send the PST back. Ask for a whole new scope. Sell the scope on here and put the money towards a nightforce. Use good rings, lapp and torque them. You shouldn't have this issue again.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that is mainly due to the bolt returning and jarring the scope. This has always been on a somewhat heavy .308 with a muzzle brake.

I address everything else in the OP
 
I have had three different 6x24 ffp mrad scopes mounted on a heavy .308 Win chambered rifle. Out of the three one of them was a damn good optic the other two had black specs scattered all over in them. Vortex said it was the coating they use on the inside of the scope detaching and sticking to the lenses. After they suggested i remove it and strike it on a sand bag to get the particles to stick back to the inside of the tube I returned it to the local dealer I purchased it from and got my money back. I own a spotter and one pair of binos from them and have no issues with either but I wont be trying the rifle scopes again. I will say the CS was great the whole time but it gets old not being able to shoot because of the same shit over and over.
 
Have a vortex viper pst ffp pst 6-24 with rubber ring on heavy barrel 308. It has been nothing but reliable.
 
backcountryguide said:
I have had three different 6x24 ffp mrad scopes mounted on a heavy .308 Win chambered rifle. Out of the three one of them was a damn good optic the other two had black specs scattered all over in them. Vortex said it was the coating they use on the inside of the scope detaching and sticking to the lenses. After they suggested i remove it and strike it on a sand bag to get the particles to stick back to the inside of the tube I returned it to the local dealer I purchased it from and got my money back. I own a spotter and one pair of binos from them and have no issues with either but I wont be trying the rifle scopes again. I will say the CS was great the whole time but it gets old not being able to shoot because of the same shit over and over.
Click to expand...

I had the exact same problem with mine!
 
I'm going to comment here just to provide some info. Between myself and my two varmint hunting partners, we own five Viper 6.5-20s with both 44 and 50mm objectives. Most of these scopes have been used for four seasons. We do not abuse our equipment but they are exposed to plenty of vibration from transport and they hit the ground occasionally like all rifles that see real use. The only failure was due to flecking from the non-reflective coating on the internals. Vortex sent a shipping label, paid return shipping and returned the scope repaired in what seemed like less time than shipping both ways should have taken. These scopes are dialed constantly and have never had a failure in the erectors which seems to be the main reason scopes in this price range go upside-down. In the same period of time, we have had four similarly priced scopes fail, three immediately out of the box. Both our failure and the OP's failure did not take the scopes off the line and were corrected immediately.

These scopes are often available at reduced prices and when that is the case I don't think there is a better value. I have never had one of the PSTs but they seem like a great value as well. Reports of failures when used on heavy recoiling rifles with brakes would keep me from using one for that application. Like others, I own a number of scopes that cost multiples of our Vipers and I have different expectations for these scopes. My purchases are based on quality, price and service. You can buy greater quality and you will pay more money. No matter how much you pay you will not buy better service.

The guy that had the flecking just bought another Viper. That says something.
 
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Quarter Horse said:
I'm going to comment here just to provide some info. Between myself and my two varmint hunting partners, we own five Viper 6.5-20s with both 44 and 50mm objectives. Most of these scopes have been used for four seasons. We do not abuse our equipment but they are exposed to plenty of vibration from transport and they hit the ground occasionally like all rifles that see real use. The only failure was due to flecking from the non-reflective coating on the internals. Vortex sent a shipping label, paid return shipping and returned the scope repaired in what seemed like less time than shipping both ways should have taken. These scopes are dialed constantly and have never had a failure in the erectors which seems to be the main reason scopes in this price range go upside-down. In the same period of time, we have had four similarly priced scopes fail, three immediately out of the box. Both our failure and the OP's failure did not take the scopes off the line and were corrected immediately.

These scopes are often available at reduced prices and when that is the case I don't think there is a better value. I have never had one of the PSTs but they seem like a great value as well. Reports of failures when used on heavy recoiling rifles with brakes would keep me from using one for that application. Like others, I own a number of scopes that cost multiples of our Vipers and I have different expectations for these scopes. My purchases are based on quality, price and service. You can buy greater quality and you will pay more money. No matter how much you pay you will not buy better service.

The guy that had the flecking just bought another Viper. That says something.
Click to expand...

That's exactly why I wasn't too thrilled. The scope has NEVER been abused. Never dropped, never bumped, and never splashed, hell, even shot less than I would have liked for this past year.

When I really get to thinking about it, if it is indeed an issue of grease becoming dislodged and splattered onto the lens I really cant call it a "failure". Really at most its just a PITA inconvenience, but I guess I expected smooth sailing from a scope of this price range when I hadn't spent that much on glass before. I don't really see how an issue like this could have been prevented or discovered other than shooting it, but at the same time I've got to wonder how it happened to me shooting it on a .308 in somewhat mild weather conditions. I mean I know there are guys out there running these on much harsher recoiling guns and in way hotter scenarios so I've got to question how it pops up like this when conditions weren't really that bad.

I don't know, its all speculation and and talk is cheap so I guess I'm just left wondering.
 
My PST 6-24 also had the oil on reticle problem. It was definitely caused by the use of a rather vicious muzzle break on an AR .308. I used the scope with a suppressor, no problems at all. Also no problem with nothing attached. As soon as I put the brake on, the oil splattered everywhere.

I sent it back international post (being in NZ), and it got lost on the way. Vortex sent me a replacement any way! Truly amazing customer service. I'm pleased to say that the lost scope did eventually turn up. But I was totally blown away by them doing that.

It would have been nice not to have to send it in at all of course. But now I know the limitations of these scopes, I'll just put it on my soft recoil, suppressed rifle instead.
 
I have two PST 6-24 FFP/mil scopes. The oldest is on a GAP 7 WSM and has stood up to about 400 rounds so far. It has been there for two years (don't shoot it as much as the 300WM Scalpel) with zero issues. Still clear and tracks perfectly. The other is on a rarely used Icon PH in 6.5 Creedmoor but it also tracks perfectly is very clear and bright. The 4-16 FFP/mil I own is another story. It tracks but the scope is just not as good a glass as the 6-24. Or maybe it is something else, but it just is not the same as the 6-24 (even compared at 16X). My Razor 1-6 is now a go-to scope for three-gun AR and I am very happy with the Razor spotting scope that I've been using for about four years now.
But, anyone who knows me on here knows that I am a NF junkie and the PST is definitely no NF.
 
Just got home to find my scope. They did in fact give me a new scope altogether. I actually thought they sent me the wrong one whgen I saw how much the box has changed vs. when I bought mine. Video is uploading, I'll link it when its up.

BTW. I'm fairly sure this on has the "metal mag ring" you guys mentioned. IF nothing else it sure looks different from the old knurled one. Anyone care to comment on what the actual difference is with the metal mag ring models or is that just an identifier for a new and improved scope?
 
I think the metal mag ring is the only stated change, and was basically a mid-2013 change to update the look. I've seen one single post here stating that it also brought improved glass quality on the 4-16x50 model, but I haven't seen that claimed anywhere else.
 
So any further "review" of how "horrible" Vortex is? Not many companies would give you a brand new product instead of fixing one that had an issue.
.
I've owned several Vortex products over the years some I liked some I didn't, companies at times have issues with their products and its rare to find a company with as good of customer service as Vortex seems to have over the years.
.
So any chance you've taken the time to go to the range and try out the brand new scope they sent you so you can finish out the "public documentation of this situation". Seems to me it would only be fair to give Vortex a chance since they most certainly handled the situation quite well (at least in my opinion) which is quite rare now a days considering how most companies treat customers now a days.
 
Ghogs Nightmare said:
So any further "review" of how "horrible" Vortex is? Not many companies would give you a brand new product instead of fixing one that had an issue.
.
I've owned several Vortex products over the years some I liked some I didn't, companies at times have issues with their products and its rare to find a company with as good of customer service as Vortex seems to have over the years.
.
So any chance you've taken the time to go to the range and try out the brand new scope they sent you so you can finish out the "public documentation of this situation". Seems to me it would only be fair to give Vortex a chance since they most certainly handled the situation quite well (at least in my opinion) which is quite rare now a days considering how most companies treat customers now a days.
Click to expand...

Looks like he posted the video 6 days ago...
 
jesus. sorry to offend anyone by simply documenting the situation.Im also terribly sorry i havent immediatly posted a video shooting it for you, i have been a bit busy working, but i did indeed get to the range yesterday. video will be posted tonight when im home and on the computer. hopefully this doesnt hurt anyone feelings, I hate to offend people....
 
Ghogs Nightmare said:
.
Yes, but last I saw of the video it didn't include any range time etc. There's more to optics than how they look in a box and what the box looks like.
Click to expand...

I mean its a Vortex, he reviewed the unboxing and warranty... isnt that 75% of what makes it a Vortex?

But really, its a brand new scope, I'm sure it works... and if it doesn't, stop buying that brand. YMMV.
 
People can beat up on vortex all they like, but in the category of sub-$1000 rifle scopes that are setup with desirable features for our sport, they don't have much competition. (yet)
 
So they replaced your old turd with a new one? Congrats. When I want to do that I just go eat chipotle, it pressures the old turd out and before you know it you've got a new 5lb ass baby brewing.
 
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Holy schmidt. If someone isn't trashing people for talking about a bad experience then someone else is there to talk crap about the company themselves. So much ego...

Anyway. The replacement "turd" is re zeroed and shooting just fine so far. I put ~50rnds through it and as you would expect there is no signs of issue. The video I took really doesn't address the scope itself, rather its just a few clips and some screwing around. I'll link it up when the video is finally uploaded for those of you who need a video rather than the words spewing from my rear.
 
what i like most about the pst line is when you wiggle the ocular the cross hairs move with it.
and yes i did it with 3 different scopes.
 
orkan said:
People can beat up on vortex all they like, but in the category of sub-$1000 rifle scopes that are setup with desirable features for our sport, they don't have much competition.
Click to expand...


^^This^^

For the number of PST's that are out there (and it's a bunch) there are very few issues with them, those with issues are quickly and painlessly remedied by Vortex. I'd buy a PST in a heartbeat if I needed one.
 
jasonk said:
^^This^^

For the number of PST's that are out there (and it's a bunch) there are very few issues with them, those with issues are quickly and painlessly remedied by Vortex. I'd buy a PST in a heartbeat if I needed one.
Click to expand...

Once upon a time I'd believe that but having personally sent back 4 of their scopes and I've only owned 7. I used to speak highly of vortex but after getting two brand new scopes that were DOA and now sending my current 4-16 back twice their failure rate is ridiculous. The glass in my current 4-16 downright terrible. My primary arms scope was better than this. Hell my 2-7 diamondback from vortex has better glass. They need to get their QC crap together. My 20x swfa has better glass as well. Mine is the rubber mag ring so hopefully I gwt lucky and get a metal mag ring scope as those definitely seem to be better regardless of what vortex says. It really pisses me off that they blame scope rings being too tight as the cause as well. I mount my vortexs just like every other scope and theres no problems with them.

Vortexs customer service is great for sure, but without outstanding customer service theyd be shut down within two years once word got out. They simply fail too much for how much they cost.
 
on year 2 of running the hs lr in 90 to -30 temps no problems did have a dumb fuck sit on my spoter in the pick up broke the ocular off called them had a new one in 2 days as it was hunting season and they did not want me to miss any time in the field. Seems if i look i can find every and any optic that has broke and some cost a fuck load more than 1000 bucks..... a bunch of vortex scopes in the guys i shoot and hunt with we have sent 0 back we must be some lucky sob's with our turds.
 
redneckbmxer24 said:
So they replaced your old turd with a new one? Congrats. When I want to do that I just go eat chipotle, it pressures the old turd out and before you know it you've got a new 5lb ass baby brewing.
Click to expand...

I like Vortex and have a Razor on my main rifle, but I couldn't quit laughing at this.
 
I love how there's someone on here trying to side against Vortex when that same person once wanted a Razor. Same person is also a S&B and Kahles dealer now. Maybe that person should stop bad mouthing a product purely based upon their want to sell another product before they get called out on it...
 
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