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Rifle Scopes Viper PST

Pointman308

Pointman308

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 6, 2011
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Idaho
This is my first post on this site. I have been watching as the Vortex Viper PST series of scopes have hit the markets and gained popularity. I have read the evaluations performed as well as the many opinions about their quality. I am caught between purchasing a Mark 4 or one of these Viper PST's. I love the options and the price of the PST, but I cant help but notice Leupold's reputation and the fact that I have used them for police work before. This scope will go on my personal rifle and I guess my biggest requirement considering the virtues of both options is unflinching reliabilty. My question is: would anyone rely on one of the PST's with their life. I personally trust a Leupold, but can we put the PST in the same teir as a Leupold.
 
Re: Viper PST

The PST is a good scope with lots of features. But I like my M4 6-20x50 FFP M5. I would not let price determine my scope. Save up and get a great scope the first time. Your intended use should drive your scope selection. But get what you like.
 
Re: Viper PST

Thanks for the reply and I totally agree with what you are saying. I just wonder about the long term dependability of the Vortex. I like the fact you can get mil/mil adjustments, over 10X and, illuminated reticle, zero stop, not to mention FFP for just under $1000. But are they good enough to take into theatre.
 
Re: Viper PST

What "theatre" do plan on taking it to? If its going to be used at a static range or maybe a bunch of tactical rifle courses then it will fit the bill just fine.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the reply and I totally agree with what you are saying. I just wonder about the long term dependability of the Vortex. I like the fact you can get mil/mil adjustments, over 10X and, illuminated reticle, zero stop, not to mention FFP for just under $1000. But are they good enough to take into theatre.
</div></div>
 
Re: Viper PST

Would you recommend using one for police work or for military application? Or say private contracting work over seas?
 
Re: Viper PST

ive never been in the military so to be honest i would have no clue.

but as to my responce about the leupold id be happy to enlighten you.

i have delt with the leupold company 4 times in my life and never even remotley been happy with my service.

in 2000 (pre internet research) i found out i was going elk hunting. i was stoked. i went to the local outdoors shop who i had delt with my entire life and trusted. i told them i dont know anything about rifles or scopes. (indiana shotgun is used for almost everything) i told them " i want the best of both" my father and i left with 2 weatherby rifle and 2 leupold vxIII 4.5-14x50 scopes. went hunting killed 2 elk mid day great time great trip.

i get home dad puts his leupold on his muzzloader. i had a simmons whitetail classic on my muzxloader. we when hunting and i shot a doe in the spine, dropped her right at dusk but needed to finish her. since dads gun needed fired that night anyways i decided to finish her with his gun. i looked threw his leupold and had absolutly no shooting light on 4.5x out of a 50mm obj. i reloaded my gun and on 6.5x out of a 50mm simmons i could see fine. i finished her went home. the next day i compared my leupold to his and both to the simmons. the simmons drew light much better than both leupolds.

i contacted customer service and sent both scopes in. a few weeks later i got the scopes back with a letter stating "nothing done both scopes meet our standards". im not ok with paying leupold prices for standards that are lower than simmons.

fast forward a few years. i bought a leupold rxc series 750 yd rangefinder needing a range finder for 750 yds. the best range i ever got was out of 400 yds in perfect conditions. i decided it was my fault and i bought the 1200 yd version of the same rangefinder. with it my best range to date is 600. this was ranging a truck on a bright sunny day off a tripod. then my buddy pulls out his 100 dollar bushnell and ranges 750 no problem. pissed is a understatement. i contacted leupold cs again went threw the same process and got the same letter.

im to the point with that company if somone offered me the best leupold scope made for 200 bucks id pass.

rant over
 
Re: Viper PST

Thank You for response and I respect your opinion. Sounds like you got stung by some lower end Leupolds. Have you ever used a Mark 4 at all?
 
Re: Viper PST

The PST is not in the same class as the M4. The military is not using PSTs.
 
Re: Viper PST

I sent 100 Super Snipers instead of the Leopold to Iraq on M14DMRs in 2004 and they performed outstandingly. I opted for the SS so I could spend more money on the mounts and rings (SADLAK mount and Badger Ord Rings) So I balance money with practicality

I have a PST Viper 4-16 FFP on my .308 AR I wouldn't hesitate to take into a war zone or use in a LEA application.

My background? LTC US Army now a DEA Agent
 
Re: Viper PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank You for response and I respect your opinion. Sounds like you got stung by some lower end Leupolds. Have you ever used a Mark 4 at all? </div></div>

no desire to what so ever. im not ok with a company that provides great customer service (from what im told) if you spend enough. show me one company out there that provides the warrenty of a 150 dollar scope (crossfire) that vortex does.

bottom line if i want low end to medium end scope ill go vortex. if i want high end ill go nightforce. leupold doesn't fit an anywhere
 
Re: Viper PST

if you have noticed for years everyone said "colt is the very best ar made" now not that they are bad ars but i think the lowest bid has somthing to do with why they got the contract.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JAAM12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PST is not in the same class as the M4. The military is not using PSTs. </div></div>
 
Re: Viper PST

I would take my PST over any Leupold I have ever owned. My Leupolds all give my problems and I really hate the Mk4 erector design. But my PST has functioned flawlessly since day one. My gun rack currently has only two brands of optics sitting on it Vortex and Premier.
 
Re: Viper PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would you recommend using one for police work or for military application? Or say private contracting work over seas? </div></div>

Are you going to be deployed in the near future or just trying to gauge its durability?
 
Re: Viper PST

As stated military use has much more to do with BS politics than quality or durability. I would never own a MK4. Not that it's a bad scope. But from the ones I have seen 400 bucks or so needs shaved off the price to fit in with the competition. Vortex customer service is excellent no matter what scope you have as stated above. No one will argue that. And vortex offers lower to high grade optics from the diamondback to the Razor. I will be pulling the trigger on a PST here in a couple weeks. IMO for a total package it can't be beat. As far as trusting your life to it. That's something only you can answer. Get it in your hands ASAP and determine how much faith you have in it. Good thing with the PST is if you decide to go another route it will sell faster than a rabbit gets humped. The demand far exceeds the supply still. Good luck.
 
Re: Viper PST

Hey thanks for the response and thank you for your service then and now. I really want a dependable scope and like most people I am on a budget. Thanks for the info and I am invesigating SS's a little more now.
 
Re: Viper PST

No I am not deploying. I am however getting back into police work and the long gun will be one of my fields. I am trying to set up my personal rifle long term and the Vortex PST line has been catching my eye more and more.
 
Re: Viper PST

Good reading! I realize this thread may be a bit biased, but I'm shocked to see so many people but the ixnay on Leupold. That said, I don't yet have a rifle of my own as I'm still in the process of researching... but prior to this thread, I probably would've entertained the idea of getting a Leupold scope. Now? ...I'm not so sure. If Leupold's customer service leaves that much to be desired, I'm probably going to steer away from them...

That said, I do have a Redfield Revolution 3-9x40 scope on my .17HMR and I love it. Had it for a year or so with no issues whatsoever. And I know Redfield's are manufactured? distributed? or whatever by Leupold.
 
Re: Viper PST

I notice that there can be some disdain for Leupold as well. I am not sure where it comes from, but I cant help but wonder if its the price point. Leupold seems to be in the bottom of the pile when it comes to top tier scopes and I think people either cant justify spending the money on them or they just cant afford them so they tend to hate what they cant have. This is just my .02 cents and I dont mean to insult anyone reading this. Hey maybe I'll start hating NightForce because I just can't afford one. LOL...
 
Re: Viper PST

i have scopes alot more expensive that leupold. my hate for them comes from there service and the fact that a 600 dollar leupold is just as good as a 400 dollar x brand
 
Re: Viper PST

I guess you have to look at price and value, I have a pst, ss, NF and leup. I would put the NF on the top of the heap, but they aren't really in the same price range, at least in a ffp. Within the same price range the service from vortex is outstanding, but function and dependability, I would go leup then ss then pst. Just my opinion, but I'm a shooter not LF or military and that's a big difference.
 
Re: Viper PST

I think at this point considering durability I will go with a 4.5 x 14 Mark 4 with M1 dials and TMR reticle. I will have to order a windage knob that counts both directions from Leupold and will have to stick to using the old formula for range divided by miss in inches for correction rather than have a mil/mil or moa/moa setup. Hey when you dont have all the money in the world and a family to raise, something has to be sacrificed right? At $1200.00 I think Leupold could offer the same scope in mil/mil and I believe that is what the Leupold haters on here are really trying to say.
 
Re: Viper PST

I just responded to you in another thread about the SS. IMHO the Vortex is an overall much better value than the MkIV scopes...better scope at a lower cost.

I think the issue is the Leupolds are so ubiquitous, and so costly, they are seen as being a high-end scope. 20 years ago that was probably much closer to the truth. I believe they sat on their laurels for too long while the rest of the optics world progressed, and now they are relegated to the status as an overpriced "good" scope.
 
Re: Viper PST

Thank you for both of your repsonses to my questions. I know there are multiple write ups about the SS and I have read them. You just dont hear a lot about them in the Sniper/Marksman world and I wanted to hear it from the horses mouth. I am seriously considering one of the 5 x 20's.
 
Re: Viper PST

I'd like to add my thoughts in here....but let me first state I'm a "sport" shooter not pseudo mil nor did I do any type of firearms work when I WAS in the military.That said.....
I have quite a few optics on rifles including NF,Vortex,Leupold Mk4,Zeiss, and Bushy.I'd rate my NF as first tier (for me)with the others spaced fairly close plus or minus a few points on different levels.My opinion of Loopy is that they're very good,very reliable,and clear BUT for less money you can get something just as good.Vortex PST and Bushy 4200 Tactical are just 2 I'd say are at least as good.Good luck in your decision.
 
Re: Viper PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No I am not deploying. I am however getting back into police work and the long gun will be one of my fields. I am trying to set up my personal rifle long term and the Vortex PST line has been catching my eye more and more. </div></div>

If you're a recreational shooter and can't afford more than a grand I think the PST scopes are great choices. If you're LEO (or former LEO) pretty sure you qualify for Leupold discount so you can get the mil mil 4-14 FFP model for 1250. That would certainly work too but the PST has more features.

If you don't mind a SFP 3-15 the Nightforce is MOA MOA, illuminated, 20min turn elevation knob, and built like a brick shithouse for 1527 MAP price (call around for quotes).
 
Re: Viper PST

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am seriously considering one of the 5 x 20's. </div></div>

Mil mil, illuminated, first focal, 10Mil turn elevation knob, tons of internal adjustment in a 30mm tube, made in Japan, and lots and lots of happy owners. In all honesty I think I've only read one bad review of the 5-20 super sniper and that guy was a bit of a goofball...
 
Re: Viper PST

I say take a shot and see for yourself. vortex makes a great optic and have owned there lower end stuff and am actually buying a PST shortly
 
Re: Viper PST

Hey thanks alot guys for all the suggestions, when you work for a living you tend to be a little over critical when spending more than a $1000 on a rifle scope. Leupold has been the military and law enforcement gold standard for so long its a little scary to throw your hard earned money in a new directon and I cant afford a USO or a S&B. I know one thing is for sure, any of them will be better than the one I have on my peronal rifle right now.
 
Re: Viper PST

I had a 4.5-14x40 MK4 that I sold. I purchased a 6.5-24x50 PST. I would do it over again in a heartbeat. I have been very happy with my scope. I don't think you can beat the PST series for the money. If you are looking to spend under $1,000 take a hard look at the PSTs. If you can spend more than $1,000 look at NightForce.

I think Leupold makes good "Hunting" scopes and they tend to be on the upper end in that field. When it comes to the "Tactical" side, there are so many more scope options out there with better features and options Leupold tends to be on the lower end. I'm not saying their scopes are cheap but there are better scopes for the money. IMHO

As with many I started out hunting before I got into LR shooting. In the hunting community if you ask for a scope recommendation your most likely going to have a Leupold recommended to you. Once I crossed over to the LR shooting side of things I naturally went with a Leupold. After spending some time in the LR community you soon realize that Leupold isn't the best option out there. It by no means is the worst but there are other options out there.

Just my $.02.

308
 
Re: Viper PST

I too work on a tight budget, so I did my research as well. I'm lucky in the way that I work on a rifle range and get to look through many different scopes.
I thought about a Leuopy just cause of it's credentials? After doing some google here on the Hide I read about a lot of unhappy owners. To make a long story short I bought a PST here on the Hide and it arrived damaged. I called Vortex and told them the truth of how I got it and they said send it in. One week latter I had a brand new one. As for as the scope it self goes I could only be happier if I spent twice the money and bought a Night Force. I plan on buying anther PST in January. For my money it is the best I can do!
Just my .02 cents. Good luck to you in your decision.
 
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