I have been looking at many tactical scopes and have narrowed it down to the Vortex PST 6-24x50 FFP and the NF F1 3.5-15. I have done extensive research and am aware of all of the features/specs of each of them and have seen pictures taken through both scopes side to side. From what I saw in those pictures the PST looks pretty damn close in terms of the quality of glass and the unconditional lifetime warranty sounds pretty good to me. What I am looking for is any personal experience with both and whether or not the NF is really worth more than twice the price.
Rifle Scopes Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
- Thread starter cooper623
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Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
where exactly did you see pictures taken through a vortex pst? I am sure I am not the only person on here who would love to know and also see this.
where exactly did you see pictures taken through a vortex pst? I am sure I am not the only person on here who would love to know and also see this.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
Are the PSTs available? I thought they were still trying to get the product like they wanted it before releasing it.
If they are available, this is a choice you will have to make. NF is a proven entity and has a good track record. The PST is not proven at this time. I would drop the coin if you have it and get the NF. I too would like to see the pictures that you referred to, but even with that said, I would not trust a picture to determine glass quality. I would try to do that comparison in person.
Are the PSTs available? I thought they were still trying to get the product like they wanted it before releasing it.
If they are available, this is a choice you will have to make. NF is a proven entity and has a good track record. The PST is not proven at this time. I would drop the coin if you have it and get the NF. I too would like to see the pictures that you referred to, but even with that said, I would not trust a picture to determine glass quality. I would try to do that comparison in person.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
I've heard a bunch of people were disappointed with the clarity of the PST. But personally I have never looked through one so I do not know if that's true or not.
I've heard a bunch of people were disappointed with the clarity of the PST. But personally I have never looked through one so I do not know if that's true or not.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
The reviews I read said that the PST had glass like the regular vortex viper so not great but not horrible.
Also those two scopes are (when the PST's become available) over a thousand dollars apart so not sure you can compare them.
A better comparison would be between the razor HD, IOR 3-18 and Nightforce 3.5-15.
The reviews I read said that the PST had glass like the regular vortex viper so not great but not horrible.
Also those two scopes are (when the PST's become available) over a thousand dollars apart so not sure you can compare them.
A better comparison would be between the razor HD, IOR 3-18 and Nightforce 3.5-15.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
No PST scope until 2011 so I am told.
As already said, NF is proven and that is where the majority of my scope $$ are invested.
No PST scope until 2011 so I am told.
As already said, NF is proven and that is where the majority of my scope $$ are invested.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where exactly did you see pictures taken through a vortex pst? I am sure I am not the only person on here who would love to know and also see this. </div></div>
Coldboremiracle did a review on the PST when he received his. It was an original from when they sold them earlier this year and had the recalls. He had a few through the scope pics.
As far as comparing it to a Nightforce, I wouldn't put them in the same category. Don't get me wrong, I have a PST on pre-odrer and I believe they will be an amazing scope for their price range, but you can't compare something that hasn't even hit the market yet, to something that is tried and trued and used by many Militaries World Wide. The ruggedness alone sets the Nightforce apart from most scopes in my book.
If your looking to save money then I think you'll be very pleased with the PST but if you can afford the Nightforce (I wish I could) then I would definitely go that route.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where exactly did you see pictures taken through a vortex pst? I am sure I am not the only person on here who would love to know and also see this. </div></div>
Coldboremiracle did a review on the PST when he received his. It was an original from when they sold them earlier this year and had the recalls. He had a few through the scope pics.
As far as comparing it to a Nightforce, I wouldn't put them in the same category. Don't get me wrong, I have a PST on pre-odrer and I believe they will be an amazing scope for their price range, but you can't compare something that hasn't even hit the market yet, to something that is tried and trued and used by many Militaries World Wide. The ruggedness alone sets the Nightforce apart from most scopes in my book.
If your looking to save money then I think you'll be very pleased with the PST but if you can afford the Nightforce (I wish I could) then I would definitely go that route.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
Id say it depends whether you want features for less money, or glass clarity for more money. Im guessing thats what it is going to come down to.
The PST has two features that a base NF does not, FFP, zero stop.
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
So if you want a scope that (assuming they get them perfected before shipping, which I believe they will for sure) has excellent features for tactical shooting, but migggggghhhttt be slightly sub-par on optical clarity then go PST.
If you want something thats very bright with great contrast, and can do without FFP and zero stop, and want it before March, go NF.
Obviously NF's can have the features I listed above, but you pay even more for them.
And honestly, Id look at the Razor if youre going to step up into that price class. Im not exactly sure what youd pay for a NXS with the same features, but Im guessing a bit more. And Im pretty sure you could run over it with an Abrams and it would be fine!
Id say it depends whether you want features for less money, or glass clarity for more money. Im guessing thats what it is going to come down to.
The PST has two features that a base NF does not, FFP, zero stop.
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
So if you want a scope that (assuming they get them perfected before shipping, which I believe they will for sure) has excellent features for tactical shooting, but migggggghhhttt be slightly sub-par on optical clarity then go PST.
If you want something thats very bright with great contrast, and can do without FFP and zero stop, and want it before March, go NF.
Obviously NF's can have the features I listed above, but you pay even more for them.
And honestly, Id look at the Razor if youre going to step up into that price class. Im not exactly sure what youd pay for a NXS with the same features, but Im guessing a bit more. And Im pretty sure you could run over it with an Abrams and it would be fine!
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">The reviews I read said that the PST had glass like the regular vortex viper so not great but not horrible. </span>
Also those two scopes are (when the PST's become available) over a thousand dollars apart so not sure you can compare them.
A better comparison would be between the razor HD, IOR 3-18 and Nightforce 3.5-15. </div></div>
Based on that, if it is indeed the case, <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> NF will be better glass wise. I have a Viper and it is good for the money but, after looking through a NXS and PH it is immediately apparent that the Viper is not in the same class. Not that its bad but, you aren't really comparing two equally built optics.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">The reviews I read said that the PST had glass like the regular vortex viper so not great but not horrible. </span>
Also those two scopes are (when the PST's become available) over a thousand dollars apart so not sure you can compare them.
A better comparison would be between the razor HD, IOR 3-18 and Nightforce 3.5-15. </div></div>
Based on that, if it is indeed the case, <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> NF will be better glass wise. I have a Viper and it is good for the money but, after looking through a NXS and PH it is immediately apparent that the Viper is not in the same class. Not that its bad but, you aren't really comparing two equally built optics.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
</div></div>
The IOR Valdada 3.5-18x50 ffp is less than the Razor HD by over $200 and has all of those features. The glass is amazing as well. And the MP-8 A5 reticle is the cat's ass. I like it better than any other reticle I've seen.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
</div></div>
The IOR Valdada 3.5-18x50 ffp is less than the Razor HD by over $200 and has all of those features. The glass is amazing as well. And the MP-8 A5 reticle is the cat's ass. I like it better than any other reticle I've seen.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
Have never really looked at IOR's stuff before. I do like the 10mils per revolution knobs on them. How are the clicks?
I did notice however you have to step up to the $2250 model to get an illuminated reticle to match all the Razors features, also it is lacking in elevation compared to the HD as well, by 13mils.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
</div></div>
The IOR Valdada 3.5-18x50 ffp is less than the Razor HD by over $200 and has all of those features. The glass is amazing as well. And the MP-8 A5 reticle is the cat's ass. I like it better than any other reticle I've seen. </div></div>
Have never really looked at IOR's stuff before. I do like the 10mils per revolution knobs on them. How are the clicks?
I did notice however you have to step up to the $2250 model to get an illuminated reticle to match all the Razors features, also it is lacking in elevation compared to the HD as well, by 13mils.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
</div></div>
The IOR Valdada 3.5-18x50 ffp is less than the Razor HD by over $200 and has all of those features. The glass is amazing as well. And the MP-8 A5 reticle is the cat's ass. I like it better than any other reticle I've seen. </div></div>
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Id say it depends whether you want features for less money, or glass clarity for more money. Im guessing thats what it is going to come down to.
The PST has two features that a base NF does not, FFP, zero stop.
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
So if you want a scope that (assuming they get them perfected before shipping, which I believe they will for sure) has excellent features for tactical shooting, but migggggghhhttt be slightly sub-par on optical clarity then go PST.
If you want something thats very bright with great contrast, and can do without FFP and zero stop, and want it before March, go NF.
Obviously NF's can have the features I listed above, but you pay even more for them.
And honestly, Id look at the Razor if youre going to step up into that price class. Im not exactly sure what youd pay for a NXS with the same features, but Im guessing a bit more. And Im pretty sure you could run over it with an Abrams and it would be fine! </div></div>
I am sorry and you are wrong.
The F1 is Nightforce’s FFP scope and the two I had did have a zero-stop. Now lets get to the root of the discussion. I have sold my Nightforce and replaced them with Vortex Razor. They are FFP, zero-stop, and all the good bells and whistles. As to the assertion that they are not proven I would submit to you that they are perhaps the most active and aggressive of the high end scope manufacturers. They have a good read on what the market is requesting and are proactively moving their product to meet the markets requirements. They have two staff members that are active on this site and have been honest about any known issues. Long story short, either the Nightforce or the Vortex will serve you well. Both are good scopes. Both are good companies. I have made my choice and I am happily running Vortex on my rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Id say it depends whether you want features for less money, or glass clarity for more money. Im guessing thats what it is going to come down to.
The PST has two features that a base NF does not, FFP, zero stop.
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
So if you want a scope that (assuming they get them perfected before shipping, which I believe they will for sure) has excellent features for tactical shooting, but migggggghhhttt be slightly sub-par on optical clarity then go PST.
If you want something thats very bright with great contrast, and can do without FFP and zero stop, and want it before March, go NF.
Obviously NF's can have the features I listed above, but you pay even more for them.
And honestly, Id look at the Razor if youre going to step up into that price class. Im not exactly sure what youd pay for a NXS with the same features, but Im guessing a bit more. And Im pretty sure you could run over it with an Abrams and it would be fine! </div></div>
I am sorry and you are wrong.
The F1 is Nightforce’s FFP scope and the two I had did have a zero-stop. Now lets get to the root of the discussion. I have sold my Nightforce and replaced them with Vortex Razor. They are FFP, zero-stop, and all the good bells and whistles. As to the assertion that they are not proven I would submit to you that they are perhaps the most active and aggressive of the high end scope manufacturers. They have a good read on what the market is requesting and are proactively moving their product to meet the markets requirements. They have two staff members that are active on this site and have been honest about any known issues. Long story short, either the Nightforce or the Vortex will serve you well. Both are good scopes. Both are good companies. I have made my choice and I am happily running Vortex on my rifles.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not exactly sure what youd pay for a NXS with the same features, but Im guessing a bit more. <span style="font-weight: bold">And Im pretty sure you could run over it with an Abrams and it would be fine!</span> </div></div>
I don't think Ed Homeyer would agree with that statement. He and Chance Gianelli won the 2010 International Sniper Competition (Service Class)
<span style="font-style: italic">Two days before the comp I received my scope. It was a Nightforce first focal plane 3.5-15×50 with a Horus Vision H58 reticle in it. I put it on my gun and went to zero. After my initial group I went to make my adjustment. That’s when I realized that one of the zero stop screws had broken off in the scope. With the elevation cap off I used a screwdriver and some elbow grease to turn the knob and zero my crosshairs at 100 meters. It was almost dark when I finished that.
When my zero stop broke I lost all ability to dial elevation. I held over for every shot of the comp. The only time I touched my elevation knob was to dial on my night vision zero shift.</span>
Link
Sometimes even the indestructible go south
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not exactly sure what youd pay for a NXS with the same features, but Im guessing a bit more. <span style="font-weight: bold">And Im pretty sure you could run over it with an Abrams and it would be fine!</span> </div></div>
I don't think Ed Homeyer would agree with that statement. He and Chance Gianelli won the 2010 International Sniper Competition (Service Class)
<span style="font-style: italic">Two days before the comp I received my scope. It was a Nightforce first focal plane 3.5-15×50 with a Horus Vision H58 reticle in it. I put it on my gun and went to zero. After my initial group I went to make my adjustment. That’s when I realized that one of the zero stop screws had broken off in the scope. With the elevation cap off I used a screwdriver and some elbow grease to turn the knob and zero my crosshairs at 100 meters. It was almost dark when I finished that.
When my zero stop broke I lost all ability to dial elevation. I held over for every shot of the comp. The only time I touched my elevation knob was to dial on my night vision zero shift.</span>
Link
Sometimes even the indestructible go south
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PST has two features that a base NF does not, FFP, zero stop.</div></div>
I would add that the PST (and the Razor) have far superior reticle choices as well as more magnification.
I would second the opinion that the Razor is a fairer comparison to the F1 (and less expensive too). I anticipate that the PST will be a decent "tween" FFP scope.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PST has two features that a base NF does not, FFP, zero stop.</div></div>
I would add that the PST (and the Razor) have far superior reticle choices as well as more magnification.
I would second the opinion that the Razor is a fairer comparison to the F1 (and less expensive too). I anticipate that the PST will be a decent "tween" FFP scope.
John
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have never really looked at IOR's stuff before. I do like the 10mils per revolution knobs on them. How are the clicks?
I did notice however you have to step up to the $2250 model to get an illuminated reticle to match all the Razors features, also it is lacking in elevation compared to the HD as well, by 13mils.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
</div></div>
The IOR Valdada 3.5-18x50 ffp is less than the Razor HD by over $200 and has all of those features. The glass is amazing as well. And the MP-8 A5 reticle is the cat's ass. I like it better than any other reticle I've seen. </div></div> </div></div>
Stop looking at MSRP. I paid $1769 for mine, and yes, it has an illuminated reticle.
This scope is very high quality. How are the clicks? On a $1900 scope? LOL
Very good. At least as good as my NF.
There should still be more than enough elevation to get to 1000 and beyond, even though it doesn't have as much as the Razor (22 mils v 35 mils).
One feature this scope does have that the Razor doesn't is secondary point of impact indexing (which allows for 2 zeros if you have a suppressor or use different ammo). The illumination is also AUTO off. I would almost guarantee that the glass is noticeably more clear as well as IOR has some of the best glass out there. It's also reported here by users that the eye box is much bigger and more forgiving than the razor.
I've never seen a Razor so I can't do a real comparison, but IOR scopes are top notch, very high quality optics.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have never really looked at IOR's stuff before. I do like the 10mils per revolution knobs on them. How are the clicks?
I did notice however you have to step up to the $2250 model to get an illuminated reticle to match all the Razors features, also it is lacking in elevation compared to the HD as well, by 13mils.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Correct me if Im wrong, but the cheapest scope out now with FFP, zero stop, mil/mil, illum is another vortex...the Razor.
</div></div>
The IOR Valdada 3.5-18x50 ffp is less than the Razor HD by over $200 and has all of those features. The glass is amazing as well. And the MP-8 A5 reticle is the cat's ass. I like it better than any other reticle I've seen. </div></div> </div></div>
Stop looking at MSRP. I paid $1769 for mine, and yes, it has an illuminated reticle.
This scope is very high quality. How are the clicks? On a $1900 scope? LOL
Very good. At least as good as my NF.
There should still be more than enough elevation to get to 1000 and beyond, even though it doesn't have as much as the Razor (22 mils v 35 mils).
One feature this scope does have that the Razor doesn't is secondary point of impact indexing (which allows for 2 zeros if you have a suppressor or use different ammo). The illumination is also AUTO off. I would almost guarantee that the glass is noticeably more clear as well as IOR has some of the best glass out there. It's also reported here by users that the eye box is much bigger and more forgiving than the razor.
I've never seen a Razor so I can't do a real comparison, but IOR scopes are top notch, very high quality optics.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PST has two features that a base NF does not, FFP, zero stop.</div></div>
I would add that the PST (and the Razor) have far superior reticle choices as well as more magnification.
</div></div>
+1 while I love the NPR1 reticle, I like the EBR 1 and 2 much more.
BTW here are some of the pics from my review for those that want to see them, sorry, no comparison with the NF
thanks to m1k3 for the pic.
Here is the thread in its entirety :
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2157667&page=1
I'd also like to add, while I love this PST, it is certainly not in the same class as the F1, and I'd trade it in a heartbeat. But it is still a fantastic scope, all the features a guy wants, and a dang good price.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PST has two features that a base NF does not, FFP, zero stop.</div></div>
I would add that the PST (and the Razor) have far superior reticle choices as well as more magnification.
</div></div>
+1 while I love the NPR1 reticle, I like the EBR 1 and 2 much more.
BTW here are some of the pics from my review for those that want to see them, sorry, no comparison with the NF
Here is the thread in its entirety :
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2157667&page=1
I'd also like to add, while I love this PST, it is certainly not in the same class as the F1, and I'd trade it in a heartbeat. But it is still a fantastic scope, all the features a guy wants, and a dang good price.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
Thanks for the pics
Thanks for the pics
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Juice5610</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the pics </div></div>
Here's PST v. NF v. Loopy from another thread:
If you look carefully at 15x the NF seems much sharper and the PST exhibits pink fringing or chromatic aberration that the NF does not.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Juice5610</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the pics </div></div>
Here's PST v. NF v. Loopy from another thread:
If you look carefully at 15x the NF seems much sharper and the PST exhibits pink fringing or chromatic aberration that the NF does not.
John
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
Thx for the pics, Jrob300.
Thx for the pics, Jrob300.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
I've worked my way up to a NF 3.5x15x50mm and still (1 year and 5 days, but who's counting) have an order for a PST. Maybe someday I can compare them myself. I've had SS 10x, Viper Mildot 50mm, IOR 3-18, and now the NF. I think the NF is clearly the best out of those but I still have the Viper too.
Mike
I've worked my way up to a NF 3.5x15x50mm and still (1 year and 5 days, but who's counting) have an order for a PST. Maybe someday I can compare them myself. I've had SS 10x, Viper Mildot 50mm, IOR 3-18, and now the NF. I think the NF is clearly the best out of those but I still have the Viper too.
Mike
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not exactly sure what youd pay for a NXS with the same features, but Im guessing a bit more. <span style="font-weight: bold">And Im pretty sure you could run over it with an Abrams and it would be fine!</span> </div></div>
I don't think Ed Homeyer would agree with that statement. He and Chance Gianelli won the 2010 International Sniper Competition (Service Class)
<span style="font-style: italic">Two days before the comp I received my scope. It was a Nightforce first focal plane 3.5-15×50 with a Horus Vision H58 reticle in it. I put it on my gun and went to zero. After my initial group I went to make my adjustment. That’s when I realized that one of the zero stop screws had broken off in the scope. With the elevation cap off I used a screwdriver and some elbow grease to turn the knob and zero my crosshairs at 100 meters. It was almost dark when I finished that.
When my zero stop broke I lost all ability to dial elevation. I held over for every shot of the comp. The only time I touched my elevation knob was to dial on my night vision zero shift.</span>
Link
Sometimes even the indestructible go south </div></div>
Dang...I got that same exact scope coming.Here I was thinking all highly of my new scope
Love those Horus reticles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im not exactly sure what youd pay for a NXS with the same features, but Im guessing a bit more. <span style="font-weight: bold">And Im pretty sure you could run over it with an Abrams and it would be fine!</span> </div></div>
I don't think Ed Homeyer would agree with that statement. He and Chance Gianelli won the 2010 International Sniper Competition (Service Class)
<span style="font-style: italic">Two days before the comp I received my scope. It was a Nightforce first focal plane 3.5-15×50 with a Horus Vision H58 reticle in it. I put it on my gun and went to zero. After my initial group I went to make my adjustment. That’s when I realized that one of the zero stop screws had broken off in the scope. With the elevation cap off I used a screwdriver and some elbow grease to turn the knob and zero my crosshairs at 100 meters. It was almost dark when I finished that.
When my zero stop broke I lost all ability to dial elevation. I held over for every shot of the comp. The only time I touched my elevation knob was to dial on my night vision zero shift.</span>
Link
Sometimes even the indestructible go south
Dang...I got that same exact scope coming.Here I was thinking all highly of my new scope
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
I posted some through the scope pics when I got my pst.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1900609
I posted some through the scope pics when I got my pst.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1900609
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
I posted some through the scope pics when I got my pst.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1900609
h
Both takin with cell phone. Steel target is 700yds
I posted some through the scope pics when I got my pst.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1900609
h
Both takin with cell phone. Steel target is 700yds
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
Thanks everyone for the advice and all the pictures. Those were some of the pictures that I was talking about in the beginning. On one hand i really like the nightforce F1 scopes and would like to buy one but i really think that while the pst isnt quite as good, its right up there with it. I've still got a lot of thinking to do seeing as its clearly a question of quality vs price. However, in this case it seems to be that you gain very little quality for a more than twice the money.
Thanks everyone for the advice and all the pictures. Those were some of the pictures that I was talking about in the beginning. On one hand i really like the nightforce F1 scopes and would like to buy one but i really think that while the pst isnt quite as good, its right up there with it. I've still got a lot of thinking to do seeing as its clearly a question of quality vs price. However, in this case it seems to be that you gain very little quality for a more than twice the money.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
My Vortex Viper PST FFP MOA 6-24x50mm scope with a custom turret by Vortex is clear enough for me to shoot less than 2 inch groups at 400 yds. It may only cost $900, but it is still an amazing scope. And I am a very happy customer.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=564977&highlight=
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=574886&highlight=
40gt
PS: I may get another one for Christmas. HEE HEE!
My Vortex Viper PST FFP MOA 6-24x50mm scope with a custom turret by Vortex is clear enough for me to shoot less than 2 inch groups at 400 yds. It may only cost $900, but it is still an amazing scope. And I am a very happy customer.
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=564977&highlight=
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=574886&highlight=
40gt
PS: I may get another one for Christmas. HEE HEE!
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cooper623</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks everyone for the advice and all the pictures. Those were some of the pictures that I was talking about in the beginning. On one hand i really like the nightforce F1 scopes and would like to buy one but i really think that while the pst isnt quite as good, its right up there with it. I've still got a lot of thinking to do seeing as its clearly a question of quality vs price. However, in this case it seems to be that you gain very little quality for a more than twice the money. </div></div>
I highly doubt that the quality difference between the PST and a NF NXS is "very little".
I would say it's likely more along the lines of "significant".
If you want a Vortex that competes with the NF, look at the Razor line. The PST is not in that league, and don't let "features" fool you in to thinking that it is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cooper623</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks everyone for the advice and all the pictures. Those were some of the pictures that I was talking about in the beginning. On one hand i really like the nightforce F1 scopes and would like to buy one but i really think that while the pst isnt quite as good, its right up there with it. I've still got a lot of thinking to do seeing as its clearly a question of quality vs price. However, in this case it seems to be that you gain very little quality for a more than twice the money. </div></div>
I highly doubt that the quality difference between the PST and a NF NXS is "very little".
I would say it's likely more along the lines of "significant".
If you want a Vortex that competes with the NF, look at the Razor line. The PST is not in that league, and don't let "features" fool you in to thinking that it is.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
I'd like to see some quotient which utilizes the expenditure and true value... but therein lies the rub. Each values different things. Clarity for some, durability for others, reticle choices, brand recognition, warranty, etc., etc....
I'd like to see some quotient which utilizes the expenditure and true value... but therein lies the rub. Each values different things. Clarity for some, durability for others, reticle choices, brand recognition, warranty, etc., etc....
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
Repeatability, reliability, and optical quality are the heart of a scope.
Now days we seem to get hung up on the cool shit instead of letting these three things guide our purchases. The fact that NF has by and large offered these things for many years, combined with the new zero stops, high speed knobs, and (in some cases) FFP now gives us the best optics (bang for the buck) and the cool shit.
I will stay with NF as long as they keep meeting my needs. But, that is just my opinion.
Repeatability, reliability, and optical quality are the heart of a scope.
Now days we seem to get hung up on the cool shit instead of letting these three things guide our purchases. The fact that NF has by and large offered these things for many years, combined with the new zero stops, high speed knobs, and (in some cases) FFP now gives us the best optics (bang for the buck) and the cool shit.
I will stay with NF as long as they keep meeting my needs. But, that is just my opinion.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PS: I may get another one for Christmas. HEE HEE! </div></div>
Probably more like a New Years gift
Hopefully not a Valentines Day gift
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PS: I may get another one for Christmas. HEE HEE! </div></div>
Probably more like a New Years gift
Hopefully not a Valentines Day gift
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
TAG.
TAG.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
I guess I have the PST on my mind this morning. This is my 2nd post on it.
The PST has a good reticle, FFP, and zero stop which I appreciate.
The glass is lagging in my opinion. I compared it to my Falcon Menace this morning and I think it came in 2nd.
I think Vortex could have found better glass for this scope. I wish they would contact Nitrex scopes and give their glass vendor a call.
I guess I have the PST on my mind this morning. This is my 2nd post on it.
The PST has a good reticle, FFP, and zero stop which I appreciate.
The glass is lagging in my opinion. I compared it to my Falcon Menace this morning and I think it came in 2nd.
I think Vortex could have found better glass for this scope. I wish they would contact Nitrex scopes and give their glass vendor a call.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
My thoughts of what is important in a scope <span style="font-style: italic">to me</span> continues to evolve.
Glass is less important to me today than it used to be. Part of this is that I have dabbled at photography for most of my life where good glass is EVERYTHING. You capture that moment forever, for better or for worse, with that lens. So my expectations were very high.
Shooting a rifle is SO different and the WAY we use our rifles can have a LOT of effect on what our needs for glass is. Low light hunting or target identification capabilities are not super high priorities for me with my current rifle. I'm not a sniper, and I no longer use this rifle for hunting. So, if the glass does not keep me from doing what I want, adequate is good enough.
My Razor is not nearly as contrasty or sharp as the IOR I looked at, but it works just fine for every shot I take. I don't NEED the better glass of the IOR.
Where I have really grown in my expectations of scopes is in the area of mechanical accuracy and repeatability and physical robustness. I'd much rather have a scope with adequate glass and excellent mechanicals that do what I tell them to do, accurately, every time and will hold up under the most extreme use, than a scope with mind bending glass that tracks poorly or breaks every two years.
There are very few scopes that do it all AND give us the features we want.
.02
John
My thoughts of what is important in a scope <span style="font-style: italic">to me</span> continues to evolve.
Glass is less important to me today than it used to be. Part of this is that I have dabbled at photography for most of my life where good glass is EVERYTHING. You capture that moment forever, for better or for worse, with that lens. So my expectations were very high.
Shooting a rifle is SO different and the WAY we use our rifles can have a LOT of effect on what our needs for glass is. Low light hunting or target identification capabilities are not super high priorities for me with my current rifle. I'm not a sniper, and I no longer use this rifle for hunting. So, if the glass does not keep me from doing what I want, adequate is good enough.
My Razor is not nearly as contrasty or sharp as the IOR I looked at, but it works just fine for every shot I take. I don't NEED the better glass of the IOR.
Where I have really grown in my expectations of scopes is in the area of mechanical accuracy and repeatability and physical robustness. I'd much rather have a scope with adequate glass and excellent mechanicals that do what I tell them to do, accurately, every time and will hold up under the most extreme use, than a scope with mind bending glass that tracks poorly or breaks every two years.
There are very few scopes that do it all AND give us the features we want.
.02
John
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
I agree with jrob on this one. I think too much importance is put on the quality of the glass in scopes much of the time. I know good glass is a benefit when using your scope for extended periods of time but I am not using my scope for astronomy or bird watching.
I put more importance on the weight of the scope than I see others do here on the hide. Weight does not seem to be a consideration whatsoever to many here. To each his own.
Even so, I don't think this is an excuse to put sub-par glass into production if better glass is obtainable at a given price point.
I agree with jrob on this one. I think too much importance is put on the quality of the glass in scopes much of the time. I know good glass is a benefit when using your scope for extended periods of time but I am not using my scope for astronomy or bird watching.
I put more importance on the weight of the scope than I see others do here on the hide. Weight does not seem to be a consideration whatsoever to many here. To each his own.
Even so, I don't think this is an excuse to put sub-par glass into production if better glass is obtainable at a given price point.
Re: Vortex PST 6-24 FFP vs NF F1 3.5-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I put more importance on the weight of the scope than I see others do here on the hide. Weight does not seem to be a consideration whatsoever to many here. To each his own.</div></div>
Weight is actually very important to me, but I won't jeopardize reliability to get light weight. Like I've said before, getting all the features we want in a reliable scope with decent glass at a price we want is a tough trick.
Some observations on the weight topic. My Razor is a lot heavier than I would like. But it is battletank tough. The main tube is 2mm (.080") thick. (The PH 5-25 is 2.5mm or .100"!) That's thicker than the walls of the tubing in my aluminum mountain bike that is over 16 years old and has been through literally thousands of miles of downhill abuse. Of course the main tube does fulfill a precision mechanical role, but you get my point. So far it has proven to take anything I can dish out (I have destroyed several other scopes in less time.
In the early '80's I fielded a motorcycle on the AMA Superbike grid. I competed against other privateers, but the top spots were always spoken for by the Team Honda bikes. We had a weight limit, but due to a bigger budget, better engineering resources and superior materials, Honda could put that weight where it did the most good. Higher spinning, more powerful engines, lighter unsprung weight, lower center of gravity. My budget that year was $25K, theirs was $6 mil.
Light + reliable = expensive. We know that heavy does not necessarily translate to robust or reliable. But conversely we know that light can be plenty of both, IF engineered well and made of good components. That costs money. My question is: Who is spending the money on good engineering and top level components and who is pocketing profit from the price bracket by just overbuilding?
Of all the expensive scopes in our interest area, one is much lighter... the March. Time will tell if they have done their homework.
Interestingly, the PST is fairly light for its feature set. This too will be interesting to watch and see how Vortex did with their budget. Good engineering and good parts, or just an inexpensive hunting scope with tactical features? I certainly don't expect a Razor for PST prices, so for near the same features of the Razor, I also wouldn't expect Razor toughness or reliability.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I put more importance on the weight of the scope than I see others do here on the hide. Weight does not seem to be a consideration whatsoever to many here. To each his own.</div></div>
Weight is actually very important to me, but I won't jeopardize reliability to get light weight. Like I've said before, getting all the features we want in a reliable scope with decent glass at a price we want is a tough trick.
Some observations on the weight topic. My Razor is a lot heavier than I would like. But it is battletank tough. The main tube is 2mm (.080") thick. (The PH 5-25 is 2.5mm or .100"!) That's thicker than the walls of the tubing in my aluminum mountain bike that is over 16 years old and has been through literally thousands of miles of downhill abuse. Of course the main tube does fulfill a precision mechanical role, but you get my point. So far it has proven to take anything I can dish out (I have destroyed several other scopes in less time.
In the early '80's I fielded a motorcycle on the AMA Superbike grid. I competed against other privateers, but the top spots were always spoken for by the Team Honda bikes. We had a weight limit, but due to a bigger budget, better engineering resources and superior materials, Honda could put that weight where it did the most good. Higher spinning, more powerful engines, lighter unsprung weight, lower center of gravity. My budget that year was $25K, theirs was $6 mil.
Light + reliable = expensive. We know that heavy does not necessarily translate to robust or reliable. But conversely we know that light can be plenty of both, IF engineered well and made of good components. That costs money. My question is: Who is spending the money on good engineering and top level components and who is pocketing profit from the price bracket by just overbuilding?
Of all the expensive scopes in our interest area, one is much lighter... the March. Time will tell if they have done their homework.
Interestingly, the PST is fairly light for its feature set. This too will be interesting to watch and see how Vortex did with their budget. Good engineering and good parts, or just an inexpensive hunting scope with tactical features? I certainly don't expect a Razor for PST prices, so for near the same features of the Razor, I also wouldn't expect Razor toughness or reliability.
John
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